Open Discussion:
The film Magic Mike is raising a lot of questions around men as sex objects…
But what do you think? Can men be objectified?
How does the objectification of men differ from the objectification of women?
About The Good Feed Blog Editors[...] This is a comment by Geeky Gentleman on the post “Open Thread: Can Men Be Objectified?“ [...]
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If the clothes don’t make the man, do they at least signal what kind of man wears them?
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Well obviously they can be objectified. And are. Go read through any kink meme, and you’ll have pretty boys being whumped galore.
I had a big long diatribe written here, but I decided not to post it. Instead I want to kind of sidestep and ask “why is objectification always about Men vs. Women? Why is it always sexual?”
Heterosexual Men objectify other heterosexual men regularly, and heterosexual women objectify other heterosexual women regularly.
Objectification means, at it’s root, seeing someone not as a human being but as an idealized form with no worth outside of those parts you prefer to notice. Men objectify NFL stars all the time, and Women objectify Models. Businesspeople objectify other businesspeople, regardless of gender. Objectification need not be sexual and, likely, at it’s core it is probably not. At the center it’s probably power and narcissism.
When you stop seeing someone else as the same as you (e.g. another human with value outside of your own preconceptions), that’s where objectification begins.
Yes, of course men are (or can be) objectified by women or other men.
What I haven’t seen, though, is men being objectified systemically. We don’t seem to pay the same amount of attention as a society to how men dress and what they do (or don’t do) with their sexuality as we do with women.
This isn’t to say that men are never subjected to harmful, unrealistic ideas about their bodies. But the expectations for men and women are very different. Women’s bodies are subject to far more public debate in my experience.
Now it could be that this is something that’s shifting in our society. Maybe _Magic Mike_ is an example of how things will be in the future. (I hope not!)
I look forward to seeing what everyone else has to say on this topic.
“We don’t seem to pay the same amount of attention as a society to how men dress and what they do (or don’t do) with their sexuality as we do with women.”
How we dress, no, but how we use our sexuality are you kidding? If we didn’t people wouldn’t say things like “a virgin isn’t a real man”, we wouldn’t have hours upon hours upon hours of discussions of sexual objectification, or how having the option of masturbating makes it harder to get men to bend over backwards with the promise of sex (pretty much the basis of the whole end of men/men won’t grow up discourse). The fact that men don’t experience something in the same way as women doesn’t mean we don’t experience it.
Honestly the only thing objectification discourse is good for is showing how little theories of asymmetrical insight are worth.
You’re assuming that “sexual objectification” is the only kind there is.
it isn’t.
I agree with everything except the part about hoping the future is not like Magic Mike lol. I suppose my comment is the perfect example of male objectification!
“Women’s bodies are subject to far more public debate in my experience.”
Lol…its almost like the “On Unsolicited Penis Pics” article isn’t also on the GMP at the exact same time you posted this.
For a moment let’s step away from sexual objectification.
Now are you trying to say that men are not reduced to what kind of work they do, how much money they being home, what kind of material possessions they have (cars, houses, etc…)?
Let’s come back to sexual objectification.
Now while I can agree that men don’t have their sexuality under the microscope in the same way that women do but it’s under a microscope alright (maybe on a different setting).
We don’t seem to pay the same amount of attention as a society to how men dress and what they do (or don’t do) with their sexuality as we do with women.
I can concede on the clothing and like I said it’s not the same as what women go through. However has you ever noticed how a man’s libido is treated like a defining part of his sexuality? One thing I see is that people (usually women oddly) like to say that men are “allowed to be more sexual than women” when that is only a part of the story. The part where women look oh so down trodden.
Fact of the matter is we aren’t “allowed” to be more sexual we are expected damn near demanded to be more sexual than women.
So yes it happens and yes it happens systematically.
http://www.bootybreak.com <- Bless you tumblr, your hypocrisy came right when I needed you. (For those not wanting to click, it's where you can make male asses flex, dance and get slapped.)
Men get objectified for looking like they’re strong. It’s still a reduction of the man to a culturally valued, impersonal attribute. It’s nice to have my girlfriend admire my muscles, and to get admiring looks, but I know they don’t see me when they’re doing this. I’ve gotten objectified for being sexy, too, and it’s much more threatening. Being objectified, even for being strong, is okay in small doses, but to be bombarded with that kind of gaze is hard to live with, and keep a strong identity intact.
There is objectifying and admiring. Personally I see no problem admiring a fit, strong man. Just because I have no desire to meet said man doesn’t make my intentions nefarious, I’m not objectifying them. I can appreciate an attractive man (and my idea of attractive is not always predictable, I kind of like nerdy, interesting looking men) just as I can appreciate a beautiful sunset or a gorgeous child. There is nothing wrong with being attracted to beauty, we are all hardwired to appreciate it. It only becomes a problem if you look too long or try and pursue the person when they show no interest in you or if you reduce the person entirely to their body parts. I can appreciate their body parts and know that they also have a personality!
Personally I enjoy it when people admire me or take a second look. Don’t we all? Don’t we all want to be desired?
Can men be objectified? Yes. Are they? Yes.
How does it differ from when women are? Only in terms of how it is perceived for example by feminists many of whom don’t believe men can be objectified.
#metrosexual
Perhaps we need clarification on the meaning of objectification, there appears to be an assumption that that objectification is only sexual or physical, or perhaps those are the only forms that matter.
If we consider objectification means to simply reduce a person to their potential transient utility to the beholder, then hell yeah, men are objectified: Business man, garbage man, police man, fire man, mail man, chair man, congress man, good guy, bad guy, soldier, judge, prisoner, doctor, welder, hero, villain, monster, ect. ect.
Men can and are objectified like women are (both sexually and culturally). It just isn’t discussed as much in male culture due to male social and gender norms. Just like you can see the objectification of women in male oriented media (i.e. action movies, porn, etc…), you can also see this same kind of thing in female oriented media (dramas, romance novels, etc…). The main difference between how men and women objectify is that men objectify primarily on a visual basis, and women objectify primarily on an emotional basis.
I am fairly omnivorous when comes to my consumption of media and especially so when it comes to movies and television shows I have seen nearly everything. And there are several different archetypes I have encountered in female oriented media that are the male equivalent to the damsel, mother, and seductress archetypes. The kind of one characters that are groan inducing and sometimes rather offensive.
The names for these archetypes vary depending on the media, but for this posting I will use the ones listed below:
The wounded lion – This the type of character that is usually “broken” in some way. His wife/child died (usually tragically), he has emotional/psychological scarring from an event/person in his past, or some other form of dysfunction that causes him to lash out at the heroine because they trigger memories of the trauma for some reason. Only through the help of the heroine can he be “fixed”. Nevermind that in real life these kind of men need to get psychological counseling and treatment, not to be enabled into a codependent relationship that could eventually become abusive.
The scoundrel – The classic “bad boy” character that is either physically handsome or charismatic/charming. The kind of character that tends to either fluster or infuriate the heroine with their manchild antics, or borderline dangerous behavior. By falling in love with the heroine she can change them into a more mature and/or honest man. In real life however these men are usually emotionally manipulative and/or physically abusive. The real and deep personality changes needed to reform the”knuckle-dragging man-ape” in him usually takes several years to take place rather than a few weeks or months commonly portrayed in the movies.
The Gentleman – Also known as the “Knight in shining armor” is always polite, even tempered, and knows exactly what to say. He always seems to know what the heroine needs, and seems damn near psychic in knowing when to swoop in and protect the heroine from a malefactor, protect her from a financial hardship, or be the only person to be nice to heroine and treat her with respect when everyone around her marginalizes or cuts her down because of her race/class/profession.
In real life this usually very rare since the changing social and gender norms of our culture (something that I personally feel is needful) make it difficult to be a “gentleman” without being accused of being being patronizing or labeled as a male chauvinist. Not to mention that to be able to “ride in and save the damsel” more than once or twice would require a level of providence that beggars belief, or a level of attention to the heroines daily life that is obsessive to the point of being stalkerish.
The reasons why men don’t complain about these kind of portrayals of our gender vary, but the major reasons are that 1)As men we are socialized around the values of strength and stoicism. Expressing feelings (in this case about portrayals of gender) in a forum to does not explicit ask or make okay that expression tends to be considered whining and gives the impression of weakness. 2) Given our culture’s history of double standards regarding gender expectations and gender inequality in general; it is difficult to complain about male objectification without be accused of trying to defend “male privilege”. 3)And in all honesty turnabout is fair play. If we as men want to keep our Marylin Monroes and Angelina Jolie’s, it is only fair that women get to have their Brad Pitts and Denzel Washingtons.
In the interest of full disclosure, As a Caucasian suburbanite man in my early thirties I have as much social justification to complain about the objectification of men in “chick flicks/shows”, as I do about portrayal of white people in black cinema as dweebish dorks who dance like they are having a seizure.
Namely that It is a media that is NOT aimed at me as viewing demographic, doesn’t address issues that are specific to my gender, and uses shared cultural experiences (both good and bad) that because of my gender I will never have experienced. In all honesty, movies like the “first wives club” would not be as funny if the male characters had been written as multidimensional and complex characters.
-Geeky Gentleman
Geeky Gentleman, yes to a lot of what you say however I would contest the’ men being visual, women being emotional’ in what they ‘objectify’ (or what I like to call admire). Adultery, sex, fantasies or reading sexy novels is quite different from just having a good old perve. In this instance women can be as ‘visual’ as men. We are equally capable of looking at handsome men (or whomsoever we may consider attractive) on a purely visual basis without emotions coming into it. When i look at someone without trying to take it further I am looking because they are nice to look at. If I were to try and take it further I imagine they must appeal to some deeper part of me.
Just two cents from a psychologists who researchs objectification:
There is good evidence that men and women are both sexually objectified, but there is an important difference in magnitude. Women tend to be objectified more than men, and women (yes, women) tend to objectify more than men. How is it that women objectify more than men? Well, both sexes sexually objectify each other – with men holding a slight edge over women. However, heterosexual women objectify other women, but hetereosexual men show a significantly reduced tendency to sexually objectify other men. So, by virtue of sexually objectifying both men and women, women tend more often to be both the targets and agents of sexual objectification.
Anyone interested should look at the work of Peter Strelan on self- and other- objectification amongst men and women.
One word for the objectification of men: Military!
^ This. I still don’t understand how people can say that the forced marriage of a woman is a crime against humanity and yet ignore the millions of men drafted into mandatory military service. No matter how you look at it, it seems like the military service is just as damaging.
Exactly. Male disposability is built into our culture, so much so that it’s not even noticed or remarked upon.
“Was it a disaster?”
“Well, that depends; were any women or children killed?”
Can men be objectified? Of Course Not! What a Silly Question!
There is just NO Evidence to show any such possible behaviour exists – or that ladies are such lascivious, lecherous and out of control beasts – in the same way as men!
The following Links have nothing to do with the subject – and simply prove how Objectification of men is a Myth – and ranks with the Abominable Snowman, Sasquatch, the acting skills of Jennifer Love Hewitt and the Female Orgasm.
http://www.chippendales.com – still at it after 32 years! (Founded 1979) P^) NO Objection or Objectification there!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080365/ – American Gigolo 1980 – Mr Gere still voted as one of the sexiest stud muffins ever 32 years on – and his pension just round the corner. Ditto – Objection – Objectification.
http://www.playgirl.com – Play Girl Magazine 1973 – 40 years next January. Order your anniversary copy now to avoid disappointment and of course anyone placing an order will simply have the interests of a Librarian in significant periodicals and cultural anthropology!
…. and don’t forget that most objectifying image 1972 Cosmo – Burt Reynolds! Google it for yourself.
Now why is this question being asked at all?
I do hope that some folks aint being shy about their libidos – nights sticking bills into G strings …. and any magazine subscriptions they have? P^)
…. as for who spends the most on sex toys, outfits, most odd underwear …… Now who has been doing that and keeping that Multi Billion Dollar Global Industry floating and growing since the 1950′s?
Sorry – but am I showing me age? … I hope that male age don’t get objectified too!
The female orgasm is not a myth…
I think his tongue may have been in his cheek there…
In a word, yes, although it tends to be in different ways.