Dan Moore of MenZ magazine gives his perspective on fundamental men’s rights issues, breaks down MRA sub-groups, and answers the question: Why do MRAs hate feminism?
My involvement with the Men’s Rights Movement began nearly two decades ago, before Reddit gave MRAs (men’s rights activists) a place to gather, and before I founded MenZ magazine. Back then, there was a thing we call the “Lace Curtain,” a reference to the media’s unwillingness to take a male-sympathetic view of anything, even to the point of suppressing any pro-male comments or letters to the editor. We used to send out an email alert whenever someone got a letter to the editor published in their local paper. It was so rare, we had to celebrate it.
We’ve made a lot of progress as a movement since then. But what kind of progress, exactly? It’s obvious we exist, and that we’re angry and loud—but what do we believe in and stand for today? Explaining the MRM involves exploding so many of the cultural myths we live with that it would take more than one article to cover them. But, if you’ll bear with me, I’m going to try.
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The Issues:
Men have no reproductive rights throughout what we would call the Political West. Men have no right to choose if they are ready for parenthood post-conception, even though women have that right (and staunchly defend it). While the morality of letting men abandon pregnant girlfriends is left in question, the base inequality of the current situation is not. We have a blatant legal double standard, based solely on the sex of the person involved. Either give men the same rights as women, or restrict women’s rights to equal those of men—I don’t care which. But to fail to do so is to promote sexism as official government policy.
As the Department of Health and Human Services concedes,”historically, unmarried fathers have had fewer rights with regard to their children than either unwed mothers or married parents.” For example, as an unintended consequence of the 1996 Welfare Reform Act, which required single mothers seeking public assistance to identify the father and put states in charge of collecting child support, millions of men across the U.S. were declared dads by “default judgment.” As Matt Welch wrote in a 2004 issue of Reason magazine:
[W]hen the government accuses you of fathering a child, no matter how flimsy the evidence, you are one month away from having your life wrecked. Federal law gives a man just 30 days to file a written challenge; if he doesn’t, he is presumed guilty. And once that steamroller of justice starts rolling, dozens of statutory lubricants help make it extremely difficult, and prohibitively expensive, to stop—even, in most cases, if there’s conclusive DNA proof that the man is not the child’s father.
Many states have since passed reform bills, but paternity fraud is still a problem.
While we’re talking about family court, how about those child support tables? They were based in part on hysteria created when sociologist Lenore Weitzman concluded, in a 1985 report, that after a divorce women’s standard of living went down 73 percent, and men’s went up 42 percent. “For several years after the publication of her book, she did not make her data available to other researchers,” according to the Associated Press. In 1996, she admitted that her calculations were faulty. A re-analysis of her numbers “found a 27 percent decline in women’s post-divorce standard of living and a 10 percent increase in men’s—still a serious gap, but not the catastrophic one that Weitzman saw.”
But by that time it was too late. According to the 1996 AP report, Weitzman’s bogus statistic had already been cited in 348 social-science articles, 250 law review articles, 24 appeals and Supreme Court cases, and in President Clinton’s 1996 budget. “This has been one of the most widely quoted statistics in recent history,” said Anne Colby, director of Radcliffe College’s Murray Research Center at the time.
All this is done under “no fault” divorce, which basically means there’s no reason needed to initiate divorce and no acknowledgment of wrongdoing. Even in cases where one spouse is decent and hardworking and upstanding, and the other cheats and drinks too much and is addicted to gambling and takes off with the kids, there can be no assignation of blame. Alone, this is no big deal until you factor in the misandric culture we live in, where accusations of wrongdoing are gendered in the media.
Speaking of the law, men have particular concerns when it comes to the justice system. There has been a massive spike in incarcerations in the U.S. over the last 30 years. Nearly all of those are men, and nearly all of those men are poor, and usually black. While some might see this as our society being tough on crime, I see a society locking their “undesirables” out of sight. And while black and white men are often treated differently, the differences in treatment between men and women are substantially greater.
“In a nutshell, because nearly everything they say is a lie” So, like this entire post… I literally came here after seeing a HelloGiggles article about dress code discrimination against boys. And as always, the comments are positive about Feminism addressing male issues.
Dammit, wrong post.
We should be joining forces with white supremacists! A lot of the same ideas (except about whiteness)
I agree that Weitzman’s data should have been corrected long ago. The thing is, that even corrected, men were getting richer after divorce and women were getting poorer. This is an issue we have to address in divorce. It’s still true that most married mothers work fewer hours for pay and more at home. The fathers then work more hours for pay and less at home. This is good for the kids and hopefully the parents. The only problem is if the couple divorces. Then the woman has less earning power. She hasn’t been lazy, far from it. So she… Read more »
I’m confused as to what the MRM wants to have done about the inequality between men and women over deciding whether or not to raise a child. I don’t see any good solution. It would be wrong to allow a father to abandon his child. It would be horrific if men could force women to have abortions when they didn’t want to support the child. So are they suggesting that to make things fair, women shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions? Wouldn’t many men be upset by that and end up having to support more children? Or do they want… Read more »
Yeah, any blog that doesn’t bash women/feminists while championing MRA men must be anti-male!
This is why we don’t take MRAs seriously.
“MRAs reject the very notion that “men oppressed women.” It didn’t happen. Ever.” You can’t be serious. Sure, men had “rigid gender roles,” too, but at least men had more options. Women couldn’t even get an education. Many girls in other countries still don’t get an education. Girls’ genitals are cut off and sewed up just enough to let urine and menses come out so they “stay pure.” Girls are aborted or abandoned simply for not being boys. Women are often blamed in the Bible for all of humankind’s “sins.” Also, feminists fought against these rigid gender roles. MRAs seem… Read more »
thank you for bringing up genetal mutilation, they cannot complaint about circumcision anymore. i know circumcision is a big issue for these dudes. well guess what? when you were born your DAD, thats right your FATHER prolly had a good amount of say in it, not your “bitchy, tyrannic” mom (who just went through 6-24 hours give or take of extreme pain so you could come into this world.) and if your mom made the sole decision to do it then where the hell was your dad at? certianly not being the upstanding father you people are always talking about.… Read more »
Seriously? Don’t you realize that women are the ones insist that young girls get circumcised? That they are the ones who hold them down?
I have yet to find a single “MRA” site that isn’t sexist against women and doesn’t blame feminism for every single issue they have. It’s pathetic. At least sites like Feministing doesn’t blame men; it merely talks about women’s issues, and the “MRAs” hate them for that, for whatever reason. “MRAs” don’t even bother to remember that not all feminists are like Valerie Solanas. I believe in equal rights for everyone. I would totally team up with the “MRM” if they didn’t hate on women so much. And I know you’re going to say “well, feminists hate men,” but no,… Read more »
Funny you say that. I am not a MRA but I would be on board with feminists if they didn’t hate men so much. Despite certain denials, feminists man-hating reputation was earned and continues to thrive due to their relentless hatred of men and boys.
The marxist feminist hate movement was exported from the former soviet union to the west to destroy the family and transfer all social, economic, educational and political power from men to women with the state being the ultimate authority. Women being the “peasant victim class” weild the guns of the state to incarcerate, hamstring or hurt any man, who are of course the “burgiousse oppressor class” for any reason or just on a whim. Are feminists soley to blame? No, most women must also shoulder the resposibility of blame. The claim of NAWALT, (not all women are like that) may… Read more »
There are some important questions about this whole Good Man Project here. 1) What are you DOING or ADVOCATING for MEN? How are you HELPING them? This is a MEN’s GROUP – yes? Can you please list them, in a nice simple bullet point way? Because that would help assure those who come by out of curiosity. You could have it as a one-page, just 8 points or so. Then you could say HOW you are going to achieve this. Examples below. 1.1 Positive discrimination (AA) is cheating. End of. Period. Before you start on the history argument, two wrongs… Read more »
I agree with you, Peter.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/03/14/the-unabridged-mens-movement
’nuff said!
http://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/03/14/the-unabridged-mens-movement
Kate says: March 10, 2011 at 8:39 am Choice starts at the choice to not have sex with people who you don’t want to have children with. —- This is exactly what MRAs are telling to all men. And this is exactly what feminists do not want to hear and why they dislike MRAs so much. MRAs recommend to study the laws in your Western feminist-orientated country, and if you think, it’s not a good choice to have a family/children because biased laws are against you as a man, say NO and stay single. Reject any contact with Western females.… Read more »
Kate says: March 10, 2011 at 8:39 am Choice starts at the choice to not have sex with people who you don’t want to have children with. —- This is exactly what MRAs are telling to all men. And this is exactly what feminists do not want to hear and why they dislike MRAs so much. MRAs recommend to study the laws in your Western feminist-orientated country, and if you think, it’s not a good choice to have a family/children because biased laws are against you as a man, say NO and stay single. Reject any contact with Western females.… Read more »
Why does The Good Men Project hate men?
Because the site owners are feminists.
I’d just like to say…
This website or blog or whatever you like to call it, is extremely glitchy.
How do users or members have the patience to deal with it?
A site this poorly designed would last about 4 days in the MRA community.
I was kind of skeptical of this MRA thing until Fannie showed up. I’m so sheltered since I’ve surrounded myself with people who like men in my personal life, that I totally forget what a nuisance feminists are. They want to spread their unhappiness and bitterness everywhere. And sadly based on this essay it seems they’ve succeeded. I hope some of you bitter men find women who truly stand by you and support you. I still think they exist and I strive to be one every day.
Kate, i’m wiht you on that. I do not have any female friends who hate men (well, i do know one woman who is very bitter about her choices in life, but she’s not a close friend, but someone i know through my work). But my close friends, we are all man lovers! All I look for in a partner is someone who I can share life with, and important to do things apart, get on well, laugh a lot and who has a high libido!! I look for laughter and someone who is happy in themselves. I am not… Read more »
Wow, great article, the first good one on this site probably. I’m shocked they let you put it up at all since it’s actually telling it how it is and not how some feminist is speculating it is
Thanks. I appreciate the compliment.
This site is beyond feminist propaganda, I’d be ashamed to be any part of it
My life is worth so much more than what feminism, the media and women in general would have me believe. It is my opinion that there is no point in arguing anymore and what men & boys need to do is just learn to live without women. My life has meaning and is precious to me. I don’t need it run by angry women, they can have the manginas for that. If we really want to take their power away there is really only 3 things we need to do. #1 At all costs don’t get them pregnant. #2 don’t… Read more »
Just marry a cool girl from over seas, there are plenty of women in other countries that still know how to treat a man and how to be a woman
I know, they don’t, like, talk back and shit.
An ignorant comment by someone who has completely lost touch with their femininity
Exactly, fannie, they don’t “talk back”, they RESPOND.
You mean they obey…
This only works if you live THERE! If you bring such a woman here, Feminism will infect her to the core and she’ll f**k you over the first chance she gets. You may treat her as equal, but according to feminism there is no equality.
Where do you guys live? Move somewhere else.
You can have Dworkin reading barely even tolerate men difficult woman like our friend Fannie here who probably lives in some coastal overpriced city.
Or you can have a woman from fly over country who actually likes men! And who doesn’t want to change them into pathetic simpering man-children. And they don’t like women who sleep around and abandon their children. You can have personality, intelligence, like to argue…and still like men.
No Kate, it you and your species that will be outbred.America can’t protect you any moer. Give it another 20 years and those ‘foreign’ countries will be America. Your grandchildren will be Muslim and brown.
You just summed it up nicely. MGTOW. Spend your time, your money, your energy, and your mental and emotional resources on things that will benefit YOU as a MAN. We’ve spent a lot of unappreciated effort bowing to the whims of selfish women and feminists.
I, for one, will never willfully subsidize another woman again.
You selfish, arrogant, entitled women can all go to hell. OI’ll be in my man cave creating some more badass manly shit with my badass manly hands.
Yawn. Have fun. Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out!
Dan is another angry emasculated male who is impotent to stand up to feminists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plkeKMTDM9g
Says the stark raving lunatic from Manhood101. You pusbags have been trying to poison the well for long enough, haven’t you? Take your woman hating everyone-is-queer-but-internet-tough-guys-like-me bullshit and peddle it somewhere else. There’s a reason why every single MRA site I’m aware of – certainly all the majors – have come out openly attacking you people as the 5th column bullshit artists you really are. You have no backing from anyone (unless it’s covert) in this discussion – you are NOT MRAs, and you’re all unwelcome anywhere as far as I know. It’s hardly surprising you’re here though, considering your… Read more »
such a good article, even if it is heavily edited. Please post the original if you can, I’d love to read it as I always fell more on the PUA side of things rather than MRA.
The content of recent articles marks a marginal shift in attitude here at TGMP but its language of it’s chief contributors for the most part is still as full of shaming and mockery towards the MRM as always. This merely feeds the MRM so it will only grow in response. Before I expound on why growth is inevitable, I’ll pose the question I always pose to those who question the motives of MRA’s: What possible motive could an undefinable number of men, growing by the thousands daily worldwide, who’ll probably never meet in person, have for banding together in the… Read more »
There is nothing equal in faminism, it is just their way of recruiting people, they tell people, “oh, so you are happy with women voting? then YOU are a feminist” No, you can want what’s best for your mothers, sisters, daughters, girlfriends, wives and grannies without being a feminist, in fact not being a feminist is what’s best for them because feminism once you see it for what it is, is just a small group of narrow minded people with their own view on how the world should be, or more accurately, how the world should behave according to them.
This is the most bogus ‘movement’ I’ve ever heard of.
Reading and discussing things with various MRM activists on here, I’m inclined to say the movement is more akin to a conspiracy theory than a political activism group. Specifically with regard to the huge amount of power and influence it claims feminists possess; ignoring other issues such as race and class; purporting to be constantly oppressed; and a complete dismissal of arguments as part of the conspiracy.
The only other time I’ve come up against such a brick wall is trying to argue with truthers.
“more akin to a conspiracy theory than a political activism group”
So…”argumentum ad hominem as it discounts anything an MRA says purely for being a feminist without having regard to the content of their statements – it attacks the speaker not the argument.”
Why not just address the issues? You’re proving my point.
Great article, feminists are absolutely opposed to men’s rights and honest discussion of the issues.
You believe all men everywhere conspired to ‘keep women down’, across borders, cultures, and even battlefields….
And YOU accuse US of wearing tinfoil hats?
“MRAs reject the very notion that “men oppressed women.” It didn’t happen. Ever.”
This statement is so ludicrous and hateful. It honest makes me move from seeing MRM as internet trolls to an actual hate group. This sounds like Neo-Nazi groups that deny the Holocaust ever happened.
SICK.
If you believe that there’s an International Secret Male Conspiracy to oppress women, you’re a feminist (and a lunatic as well). This is the starting point of everything we’re arguing here.
I don’t believe there is an International Secret Male Conspirary…
It’s all pretty much out in the open.
Cannot honestly debate me thus call me a lunatic?
Why Do MRAs Hate Feminists So Much?
While I’m not an MRA and while I don’t hate feminists I can say this. The contradictions I’ve seen among feminists makes me not like them that much as a whole. Yeah there are good and resonable ones here and there but on the whole they seem to refuse to live up to the very standards they are imposing on everyone else.
The ideological inconsistency of Feminism is the impetus behind the Mens Movement. We are, quite literally, an entirely reactionary movement. We are simply responding to the stimuli we are presented with. But Feminism has ALWAYS been this ideologically inconsistent. It has also had anti-male and anti-family sentiment at it’s core since it’s inception. They openly stated as much on numerous occasions. They simply rely on NAFALT arguments, and gynocentric desire to excuse female evil, to enable them to continue with impunity. In fact, they are so unused to being challenged, that they still can’t formulate a decent argument. Or for… Read more »
But Feminism has ALWAYS been this ideologically inconsistent. I have to disagree with the always there. Sure its seem to have gotten out of hand but it hasn’t always been that way and despite the venomous spew from the likes of Marcotte there are good and reasonable ones out there. They are certainly hard to find yes but they do exist. Or for that matter, as Amanda admirably demonstrates, even acknowledge the issues we’re concerned about. Ok its true that Amanda was just looking for a fight (which is why I’m frankly not all that mad at the reaction she… Read more »
Well, to be fair my comment was on their ideological integrity, which has always been suspect…not the level to which they stoop being so extreme.
On the second point, there very well may be feminists that are ‘not like that’.
And they accomplish jack. And have no visibility.
So really, their existence only serves as cover for those who are of the man hating variety. And as such, they deserve no consideration as an entity. I’ll be more than happy to reevaluate this, should ‘good’ feminists ever materialize in any kind of numbers.