With so many men feeling like they’re being blamed for being men, Tom Matlack wants us to embrace manhood.
As the founder of the Good Men Project, I am the butt of my share of jokes. Guys in high places love to take pot shots at me, laughing at my silly little obsession. But that’s in public. Behind the scenes the conversation is always quite a bit different. Most guys I meet in business are still socialized not to show weakness. Emotion is weakness. But behind the scenes, that same guy who made fun of me at the table always has a question. Or a story to tell.
I’ve become acutely aware of the difference between what men say in public and what they say in private. What they do to keep things superficial and the clues to what is really going on.
I’ve been doing my own soul-searching during this last week as a series of articles broke out on our site about the end of men, gender war, and whether or not men have made enough progress collectively to be considered “good” (that’s not exactly how others defined it but that’s how I think about the issue underneath it all).
Amidst all this comes the question of blame.
Why do men get blamed for everything? Well, the cynical response is, “because we can really be assholes sometimes.” I’m going to set aside gross acts of what I would call evil: rape, sex trafficking, murder, and felonies of pretty much any kind. I’m more interested in the petty shit that fills our day-to-day and ends up defining us normally imperfect human beings.
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So are dudes as a gender really assholes?
If you look around in the press, on TV, and in popular culture you certainly might conclude that. Again, that was the whole point of starting the Good Men Project—to provide example after example of not perfect men but damn good ones.
I am not interested in the macro here. I really think the question comes down to the micro conversation. How do men in their own lives feel blamed? How do women view men not in general but in particular?
Here’s my theory, and it’s nothing but a theory. Men and women are different. Quite different in fact. But women would really like men to be more like them.
In the locker room, in the bathroom, on the walk out of the board room, in my conversations with men of all kinds, that’s what I hear more than anything. The resignation that to be a man is to be unacceptable at some level to the woman in your life.
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One close friend jokes, “When speaking to my wife I always make sure to look at the ground in deference. And I make sure not to make any sudden movements.” I’ve watched him. He loves his wife.
He’s a very competent human being. But with her he’s decided the only way to survive is to submit. The female view is the right view. The male view just gets you into trouble.
So where does the blame come from?
My unscientific theory is from a fundamental disconnect between men and women at the micro level. Men know women are different. They think differently, they express emotion differently, they are motivated by different things, they think about sex differently, and they use a very different vocabulary.
Why can’t women accept men for who they really are? Is a good man more like a woman or more truly masculine?
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Here perhaps we have to go back to the macro picture for some explanations. God knows men have done some really bad shit. And god knows as guys we can, at times, live up to the stereotype of knuckle-draggers looking to eat, fuck, drink, and sleep. In that order. We’ve been slow to reveal our inner thoughts and feeling. But again my pet theory is that this comes back to vocabulary. Emotional language has been so dominated by women that to talk about feelings is, at some level, to become female rather than macho.
Sweeping generalizations about individual relationships are pretty useless. How a guy who teaches Gender Studies relates to his spouse is probably pretty different than how some Navy SEAL does. And I am sure there are plenty of heterosexual relationships where the gender roles are reversed before even getting in gay marriages.
But my basic point is that many men, I think, feel blamed for being simply men. That their most basic instincts are twisted around to torture rather than celebrate who they are.
One of the most interesting things about the Good Men Project is the readiness of women to talk about men. They are more than welcome here, but I still wonder why? Why such a passionate outcry by women about men?
I’ve probably done over a hundred talks by now about manhood. For the first couple years I would always say that my best audiences were women, boys (who are dying to know about manhood), and prisons (because the guys can’t leave).
But that has been changing recently. I spoke at the Boston Book Fair a few weeks back to a room of nearly a thousand. And for the first time I noticed more men than women.
It seems that the blame game in the mainstream, whether through the minimization of male life in pop culture or on television or through the continued obsession with men behaving badly, has finally struck a chord with the average guy. We are no longer willing to be blamed for being men. We are no longer willing to avert our gazes and stay silent about our feelings. We are raising our voices and telling our stories in our own male vocabulary.
To women, I assume the response is, “well, it’s about time.” But just remember when we talk it’s not going to sound like a women in a man’s body. It’s gonna be all dude. And you are just going to have to deal with that.
—Photo physiognomist/Flickr
Great way of viewing things – I am a bit more of a monochrome individual, myself
It’s sad to say how refreshing it is to hear that is a good thing to be a man.
I’m starting to like this website more and more. Keep it up.
Thanks for writing this. have been trying to find the words for a similar post myself.
I have often pndered on why men have to change to be accepted by women but no one suggests women should learn to accept that men (as a generalisation) handle some tings differently.
I think men and women are different, and that we should embrace those differences. I just wonder why so many women feel dissatisfied with their relationships with men. Are we supposed to just accept that “men are men” and not expect more of them? Or is it really true that they don’t have the emotional and psychological capacities to understand us and give us what we need? What do men want from women? I mean, besides sex and affirmation. It just seems that women want so much more….why is that? I know that I am generalizing here…but there still seems… Read more »
You made various good points there. I did a search on the matter and found the majority of folks will consent with your blog.
Silly comment alert:
I was really hoping for a picture of Jeff Bridges.
Wow, Erin, kudos to you for being the most reasonable and sensible person on this forum.
Erin, Ive read along this whole time and finally had to post. Simply this, *balance* is a word people like to use. That’s it. Nothing more. In women it generates a soothing feeling. Its why marketers of products where females control the spend use it, balance your life, your diet, your moods, your energy, your hormones….whatever, who can argue with balance? What does it even REALLY mean? Nothing. Period. There are no women’s issues anymore. Ive asked on femsites for years, describe a world that allows fems to say, job done lets go home. (Ive asked the same on political… Read more »
Don’t you think it is unfair to say that empathy is what drives the woman and sex is what drives the man? To both men AND women? If there were as much a gender divide as you have outlined here, it would make sense that women are usually awarded custody of children. “Driven by empathy” is a much better childcare slogan than “driven by sex.” Of course, the current child custody regulations are unfair BECAUSE such a gender divide doesn’t exist. Most men would agree that they also desire empathy and are capable of giving it. Do you really know… Read more »
I meant balance as in this definition: “A condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.”
Regardless of how the word is used in yogurt commercials, that’s not what we’re discussing on this site.
I see you’re questioning my motives, which is fine, but that’s a lot to take from one word. You might want to focus on the overall message, instead.
“So are dudes as a gender really assholes?” What a piece of writing! The use of so much slang is a sign of cultural decadence. The use of “gender” instead of “sex” implies an adherence to the bogus PC theory that sex roles are culturally conditioned rather than natural. Please consider that not all readers speak like a TV-addicted teen living in a single-mom household without fatherly guidance. Please consider writing for men, instead of just writing for guys and dudes. “Like, uh, yuuuh (add emoticon here).”
Tom said “It seems that the blame game in the mainstream, whether through the minimization of male life in pop culture or on television or through the continued obsession with men behaving badly, has finally struck a chord with the average guy. We are no longer willing to be blamed for being men. We are no longer willing to avert our gazes and stay silent about our feelings. We are raising our voices and telling our stories in our own male vocabulary. To women, I assume the response is, “well, it’s about time.” (Wow you where sure wrong there TOM!)… Read more »
You’re right, the presumption of guilt is counter to our entire idea of justice. Which women here won’t let you speak about it?
A few things: I think a lot of people who got their fires lit got about this line, “Why do men get blamed for everything?”, stopped reading, and went right to setting on declaring that its actually women who get blamed for everything. This post comes off as a what could/should have been like the inaugural posts for this place. It sounds like basic level stuff that a lot of men feel and with this being a place for men to talk open it sounds like something that needs to be said. Even if not totally true (and I can’t… Read more »
I’m confused as to why ANYONE would think that “women get blamed for everything” when men are thrown in jail at absurdly higher rates for virtually all crimes, with higher sentencing for many of those convictions? Considering that a “Crime” is where some action occurs that society isn’t happy about and metes out justice on an individual as retribution, wouldn’t the statistics suggest that, at it’s basic form, it’s men that suffer most?
I don’t think any group can claim to suffer most. And I don’t just mean in terms of men and women. I mean in terms of every demographic. It really depends on the individual. I’m not trying to counter your point and say that women suffer more. My point is more or less that many men and women have suffered more than I have, and many men and women have suffered less. I do think that the criminal justice system in the US needs serious review. Regardless of whether or not men are committing more crimes, there is a serious… Read more »
I agree with you on your points with incarceration, especially with black people. That being said, let’s use your logic on that group, shall we? “My point is more or less that many black people have suffered more than I have and man black people have suffered less.” This statement is true. However, it would NOT negate the point that black people have and are likely suffering more than I am — and I’m assuming you agree with me given your posts. Blacks are incarcerated more, die of virtually every cause more, are unemployed and homeless more, and less educated… Read more »
I think where you’re not getting me is that I don’t think of us as ‘men vs. women.’ I think of us as people. To continue your analogy based on my logic, yes, black people likely suffer more than white people, generally speaking. And yes, we need to address those problems within our social framework. However, that doesn’t mean we should stop supporting white people in areas where there’s a need. My point is, no matter who suffers more, the suffering of another group is still valid. Yes, men need more support now from society than ever. That doesn’t mean… Read more »
I’ve spent a few years reading a lot of feminist sites. I’d say my worldview is affected by that. I’m not trying to pass blame—I chose to frequent those websites. I was trying to understand feminism, something I didn’t know much about, or understand at first. Personally, aside from abuse and assault, I’ve never suffered discrimination save for the occasional jerk who doesn’t think I can do this or that because I’m a woman. I’ve been fortunate in my life. I’m here trying to get a grasp of the issues and understand things I haven’t previously been aware of. But… Read more »
Okay, Erin, you don’t “hate men”, but what strikes me as interesting, both here and elsewhere, is the notion that to speak up for men’s issues is to negate women’s issues. I kid you not, I’ve seen this. In Canada, earlier in the last decade, some feminist groups tried to sue the government over a program that focused on men because they found the mere notion of that a “hate crime” against women. Similarly, when I returned to college in 2003, a women’s studies undergraduate protested an article on the student paper about male-on-male prison rape, because for her, that… Read more »
Hi again Rick, thanks for asking. I really do appreciate a chance to clarify what I’m trying to say. It can be hard to be crystal clear in such a charged environment. I don’t think men’s rights negate women’s rights, or vice-versa. I think the approach some feminists as well as MRAs take either accidentally or intentionally try to oppose the other’s. I think it’s ridiculous for a feminist group to sue the government for considering the issues facing roughly 50% of the popuation (men). I distinctly remember times when I’ve been for men’s rights in a few cases that… Read more »
Thanks, Erin. I’m impressed by your genuine and steady effort to seek common ground. Hope you have a great start to 2012!
Agreed! Here here!
Thanks Ping & Lisa, Happy New Year to you two, as well!
Excellent post.
This site never seemed to hold any value to me before, but after seeing this post and the accompanying comments, I may have to rethink prior judgments…
This seems a pretty well thought out editorial.
If some feminists disagree with it, it’s still good to know they’re able to voice their opinions on computers built and designed by men, running programs conceived and engineered by men, on the Internet, which was an invention of you-know-who.
When some speak of “privilege” they should think that perhaps that privilege was earned by gender that built a society and all those nice little technological conveniences that women take for granted. For whatever reason, feminists choose to ignore this.
I’ve always wondered why the 70s, 80s, 90s, and millennium have not produced the distaff equivalent of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison (Oracle), Sergey Brin and Larry Page (Google), Mark Zuckerberg, Andrew Mason (Groupon), and Niklas Zennström (Skype). I’d be reluctant to chalk it up to an oppressive “glass ceiling”, since all of the above were entrepreneurs who opted to not only to think outside the box, but to work outside the system, and on their own terms. I’m not saying that women like the imagination, intelligence, courage, and adventurousness of these men, but if they share these qualities,… Read more »
Typo: I meant “lack the imagination” not “like the imagination”
I think the glass ceiling is something that happens in isolated instances now, rather than across our culture. Many, and I’d hope most, job creators now look at male and female candidates for jobs based on what they have to offer, not their gender. There are inevitably some job creators out there who do look at men and women differently. You guys aren’t the first to notice that fewer women are involved in STEM (science, tech, engineering, math) fields. I’ve seen a lot of discussion of feminist sites in particular. I think part of it is still the more subtle… Read more »
Correction Erin, your generation was among the first generations to have women be the de facto privileged sex, particularly in education, whether it be through fewer incarceration rates, fewer forced medication rates (ritalin and the like), gender based scholarships, curriculum criterion that lionizes traditional female actions, etc. Interestingly, as men not surprisingly drop backwards and begin to have higher unemployment and education completion rates in virtually all cohorts (even when delineated on race), the federal government still seems to believe that increasing female participation in STEM fields is far more deserving of thought and funding. You wouldn’t be a radical… Read more »
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Feb11/WomenSci.html
Choices — not discrimination — determine women scientists’ success, researchers say…
Funny, I had a lot of Chinese and Russian women in my advanced organic chemistry courses in college. American women were not represented at all.
Yes, I agree that today, choices determine the success of female scientists. This is relatively recent, though.
Well, I was part of the “forced ritalin” thing. Then dexedrine, then concerta. For years I was prescribed those meds. Dexedrine actually caused a lot of problems for me. I’m sure scholarships for females existed, but I never got one. As for being a radical for pursuing a STEM field career, you’re just echoing my point. What I said was that women in my generation are able to go into STEM fields without being seen as radical. Male incarceration is clearly a problem, especially in the US where laws are very extreme (3-strikes rule, all that). As for female scholarships,… Read more »
Erin, those scholarships and our views on education are not “promoting equity”. They’re promoting favoritism for girls, which is coming at the expense of boys.
Women are not receiving “equal education”. They’re getting MORE of it. The fact that you’re parroting terms like “equality” when every statistic in education shows women outpacing men in attendance since society started legislating their advance is a little weird. The hilarity of your post is that, when women outpace men, then “society” has to create more incentives — you mean the government, like we did for girls, right?
Yes, I do mean that the government needs to support men now. Women achieved equality in schools, and then outpaced men. Now it’s time to focus on supporting men.
I don’t appreciate your attempt to belittle me and what I have to say by referring to it as ‘hilarious’. I’m sure you’re aware I wasn’t joking. You’re being very argumentative given that I’m essentially agreeing with you that yes, women have more than achieved equality in education and now it’s time to support men in order to level the playing field.
You are aware that a woman invented the first computer program, right?
Moderator’s Note: Edited for Ad Hominem.
Not true, So show your evidence & let me save you time & effort if you’re gona mention the group of women who were instructed to operate & find kinks plus trouble shot that big heavy semi computer /research calculator for trajectory of fired shells during the cold war,!!! Get your fact straight the whole thing was designed & put together by two male scientists.
Tom – You “obviously touched a nerve” as feminists like to say.
You dared hint at questioning the narrative, and now you witness their nature.
Feminists are anti-male everything; promoting a rather visceral hatred of men.
Men’s Rights Activists are anti-feminist and pro-equal rights for men and women.
We judge you not by your gender, but by whether you’re a gender supremicist or not.
The ultimate egalitarian (not domination) concept.
Now you know.
Perhaps MRA’s aren’t so “crazy” after all.
I’ve been kicking around for a few days here tyring to start a dialogue with some commenters, with some minimal success. The thing I keep seeing is knee-jerk defensive reaction (why do women/feminists always try to tell me what to do/women hate me/my life is harder than all women’s/it’s not fair women get every privilege) from some commenters. I’m also seeing a lot of comments from people who disagree with this post who are dismissing the article and calling it “silly” and the like. I’m bummed out by all of it. Dismissing someone’s concern instead of trying to understand it… Read more »
Yes, I can understand your frustration. I see it in the comments all over the place, on both sides. It’s hard. We can only keep asking clarifying questions and so forth. Hope we all are listening to each other.
**smirk**
Mind if I ask you to elaborate?
Erin, do you have your own blog? 🙂 I’ve read lots of your comments and would love to follow your blog if you have one.
Wow, thank you! That’s a damn cool compliment. No, I don’t have a blog (yet—I promise to keep you posted if that changes). Amazing, I know, because I talk *a lot.* Who knows, maybe I’m just a reactionary who thrives in comment sections.
I’ve been reading and enjoying a lot of your comments as well. Do you happen to have a blog?
You should start a blog Erin, I’ve read your comments and I think you are one of the few persons that is right on Target and with a reasonable and equal position. Good for you.
Thanks, I’m thinking of writing something of my own. I’ll be sure to let folks here know if and when I do. Glad you like what I have to say.
I would totally be interested in reading as well! We need more people blogging about these topics.
I’ve got my own blog where I just write about subjects regarding recent conversations on these topics. jonathanese(dot)blogspot(dot)com
Who knows, maybe I’m just a reactionary who thrives in comment sections. That’s how I started as well. I had strong opinions on issues kept getting the, “If you feel so strongly about it, then why not start your own blog about it?” So I did and have been doing it for a few years now. One thing I’ll say for sure is that creating a space for those reactionary responses (and I’ve done plenty of posts that were basically long responses to the comments and posts of other people) certainly does open the way to start thinking of other… Read more »
Wow. Erin: I’ve only just come upon this entire controversy and have been reading Hugo’s and Tom’s articles to gain some context, and your comment immediately strikes me as the most compassionate and intelligent thing I’ve seen so far. Neither this article nor Hugo’s “rape culture” article seem exceptionally offensive to me—both points of view are understandable. There is plenty to hear and empathize with in both articles, and even in the frustration and anger of the comments. But how sad that there is so much more generalizing and blaming than thoughtful reflection on the experiences that have led both… Read more »
Unforunately, you are incorrect when you say “we’re all on the same side.” Many of the people you see commenting in offensive ways have already set their minds on war. There would be no “battle of the sexes” to joke about if no one out there were more interested in winning than in the truth.
So–those who are dead-set against the multi-faceted truth except when it suits their position will continue to deserve opposition; those who are interested in hearing about the whole thing will continue politely discussing.
True. Some folks have already decided that women or men are against them. It will be hard to get them to listen to any point of view but their own. But we can try. I’ll revise and say instead that we’re all in this together. And we’re stuck that way, whether we want to take sides or not. There are great voices on GMP from many perspectives. I’ll do my best to listen, as so many here do. I’ll do my best to be fair and civil in what I contribute to the conversation. If we can pull one person… Read more »
Tell you what…I’ll get out of the ‘adversarial mindset’ when men have equal legal rights with women…including equal reproductive and parental rights, an equal amount of attention AND MONEY spent on boys education, AA for female dominated industries favoring men, and prosecution of feminist hate mongrels for hate speech. Then we can turn to unjust laws like those surrounding rape (inversion of presumption of innocence) and start charging false accusers and jailing them for years.
Only then will I listen to ‘let’s all get along’ bullshit from privileged feminists.
Well, no one can tell you what to do. I just think that if every man banded together to fight for men’s rights, and every woman banded together to fight for women’s rights, and neither side woud entertain the other’s concerns, we’d certainly fight a lot. I’m just not sure we’d come up with any answers. But that doesn’t mean we don’t need men fighting for men’s rights alone, and women fighting for women’s rights alone. Sometimes we need those stronger, louder voices to remind us of the importance of either group’s struggles. It’s ok if you’re one of those… Read more »
I’ll do more than that. See, I view feminism as a great evil that has at its heart the hatred and subjugation of men and boys. Moreover, in almost 20 years of asking, I have yet to see a feminist show otherwise.. I have ZERO interest in ‘engaging’ feminists. I want them all seen for the hateful bigots they are. I’ll change that view when I actually see a feminist be anything else…( hint: this means actually acknowledging that feminist inspired laws HAVE hurt men, and actually working to change them … And that hasn’t happened yet. You might THINK… Read more »
I suppose I do have an easier time seeing things from the female perspective, because I am one. I’m sorry if I’m being unbalanced. I generally try to remember that everyone experiences the same troubles and also distinct troubles from time to time. I know I’m not perfectly egalitarian. We all know nobody’s perfect, and I don’t believe anyone is truly egalitarian, because we all have different ideas of equality, focused on the singular value. I’m not trying to deny that men are discriminated against in law or the courts. I’m pretty sure I haven’t denied that, but if I… Read more »
Feminism IS a religion. Well, cult actually.
I’ve had years of ‘concerned’.feminists asking for clarification… Here’s what I don’t get: you say you don’t know what issues face men, or how they feel about it…and you’re here ( where A marcotte – a featured author – wants MRAs banned…you know, those folks trying to tell you what’s wrong and what we want to fix it?)
I’m sorry, you have
No right to ask what’s wrong. You know already…you just don’t like the answer.
Feminism, and modern entitled attitudes, are the problem.
Well, I’m learning. I haven’t been on this site long, and I’m learning a lot, between the articles and comments.
An I think everyone has a right to ask questions, but you certainly don’t have to answer.
Hopefully we’ll understand each other eventually.
Factory, I think your baseless attacks on Erin, who’s clearly trying to have an intelligent, civil discussion with you, are actually pretty similar to the sort of thing Andrea Dworkin used to do. As it happens, not recognizing that you’re doing exactly what the kind of person you’re opposing does is also something Andrea Dworkin did. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be pissed off, but I am saying the way you’re approaching this particular comment thread is not only rude, but also strategically counterproductive to your own stated goals. If you truly believe in what you say you believe in,… Read more »
Empathy, action, allowing cognitive dissonance. Thank you Erin, for your balanced comments. Some here will hear you but disagree. It happens. It’s part of the process.
Thanks Julie, I appreciate it. I try my best!
Unforunately, you are incorrect when you say “we’re all on the same side.”
I think Erin means “we’re all on the same side” in a “we share the same fate” sense.
I’ve engaged in my own fire fights (a few with Erin on this very forum) but over the last few months I’ve been able to take the time to study the darkness while i was mired in it. I’m not completely over it but I am fighting back against it and one thing keeps me motivated.
In the long run we will all either sink together or swim together.
Danny, I’ve read a few of your comments, and I like what you have to say. You’re right, I mean we all share the same fate. Because in the end, we have to cooperate if we’re going to succeed in creating greater equality. In reply to Factory, I’m not trying to say “let’s all get along” as in “let’s forget our troubles,” I mean that I want to hear about the world through the male lens, and learn what’s causing life to be tough for you, too. Both women and men face hurdles in life, and personally, I believe in… Read more »
Erin, media and education are constantly blaring the trumpet about how hard the world is for women — and our legislation reflects that. We have 5 separate bodies under 3 different departments of the federal government dealing with women’s health despite the fact that men die of virtually every cause more than women. We have not one body or department for men’s health. There are 2-3 times more gender based scholarships for women available despite there being far more women applying to and graduating from college. Despite the fact that domestic violence is perpetuated by BOTH men and women, a… Read more »
I would be surprised if men die more often of every possible cause, given that we all die, there are slightly more women than men in the world, so it begs the question: what do women die of, then? Women’s health has more governing bodies perhaps because of obstetrics? (I can’t say for sure, I’m not sure whose country’s laws you’re referring to—the US?) Women’s health receives more attention for a few reasons. The government sees childbirth as an important study of its own, the government regulates women’s bodies (choice and birth control issues), and because women generally received poorer… Read more »
Side note, with regards to incarceration: I’m with you. Crap like this makes me sick.
Erin, where are the laws that overtly discriminate against women? There are laws in some states (north carolina in particular) that literally state that if a man hits a woman, he should have a longer sentence than if a woman hits a man because a man by definition is physically stronger than a woman — but they are quick to say that this logic CANNOT be used when it constrains women’s choice (i.e. if men are physically stronger than women such that they can be thrown in jail for longer on this account, then shouldn’t they be advantaged when it… Read more »
I didn’t say there were laws that overtly discriminate against women. I agree with you on that point. In fact, under my last comment I posted a link to exactly the type of thing you’re talking about. I think women and men should receive equal sentences for equal crimes. Equality does not mean you get to pick and choose. And yes, seeing as fewer men are entering and graduating from post-secondary, I do think they need more support. Scholarships are an obvious and good place to start. I didn’t explicitly state that, but I was saying that women received more… Read more »
What are the major problems women face? Seriously Look, yes there are womens issues like breast cancer…..why advocate for those and call that “balance” in a gender dynamic sense? Its already out of whack. Show me a womens issue, any one, and I will show you how women are already way out of balance with men. This call to fairness and reason Im sure is heartfelt, and you can see women lapping it up as well as our friendly self effacement males. Appeals to listen and not try and ‘win’ and all that……guess what you are doing. You are trying… Read more »
Here’s the extent of female understanding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OdQGbVNa4
I’ve said many times that a large part of the current problem between men and women is that men did not have a corresponding “Mens movement” to the “Womens movement”. Women made monumental changes in the late 60s and later, that men have yet to adjust to. To this day many, maybe most men are not sure what is expected of them in their relationships with women. Women have, by and large, learned to speak up for themselves. That’s a good thing, but men seem to think that the only response to that is to submit meekly, as the author… Read more »
“well, it’s about time.” Funny how the attitude that whe universe came into existence on one’s own birthday (the ahistorical narcissist perspective) causes many to ignore the larger, longer dialogue. This article, “A Word for Men’s Rights,” was published in 1856. That’s an “18,” not a “19,” there. http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/09/word-for-mens-rights-1856.html
I’ve seen a lot of comments, both here and on Hugo’s resignation statement, that claim GMP is become anti-feminist. Is that really a bad thing? Should feminism be without criticism? If there is evidence to show that feminism is not in practice what it claims to be in theory, should we not embrace the truth instead of denying it like some religious ideologues from centuries ago threatening to burn someone at the stake for insinuating that the earth is in fact round and not flat? I don’t frequent this website very much due to its usual pro-feminist feel…I read the… Read more »
I enjoyed your article Tom, and I think it’s great that you stood up and spoke up.
Great to see Mr. Matlack take a stand on women and men being different. What seems obvious to most is verboten speech for some. It reminds me of the 1960’s when I took part in some activism for women and was told by the feminists at the time to basically shut up, that I didn’t have any idea of what it was like to be a woman and to just be quiet and listen. Now these same women are telling us that they are the experts on being a man and on masculinity. The arrogance of this stance is monumental.… Read more »
It’s interesting that women are blamed for taking up “emotional dialogue” and for men feeling as though they have to succumb to certain gender roles. I don’t for a minute doubt that being a man can be confusing in this time and age, but to blame women for the confusion I think is a bit misguided. These gender roles have been in existence for a long time, and confusion has occurred as feminists attempt to break through the these taken for granted gender roles and fight for women’s rights. The media has played a part in confusing the situation as… Read more »
I really like what you said here. You (and anyone else here) might be interested in another article on this site. It discusses what you’re talking about in terms of dismissal of women’s thoughts and feelings: https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/why-women-arent-crazy/
We’ll gladly welcome you in our ranks Tom. Your taskmasters have thrown you under the bus, it’s time for you to join your brothers in the battle against misandry.
I had to backtrack a lot to find this: Miss Representation Facebook page –> Hugo Schwyzer’s criticism –> your Twitter –> Amanda Marcotte’s Twitter –> here Based one what I read, I am shocked that this isn’t more offensive. I was expecting something extremely different. If I’m understanding correctly, the main idea is that a sensitive, masculine man might handle a conversation differently from a sensitive, feminine woman. That being a “good man” doesn’t mean becoming more feminine, but expanding the definition of masculinity, and that shouldn’t be defined as “more feminine.” It reminds me very much of the feminist… Read more »
Tom…you finally get it…or at least you’ve finally said so here. Unlike so many of the current detractors on this post are saying; it has never been about “hating women,” or “wanting to go back to the good old days.” It has been about finding balance. Few men want to see women go back to the way things used to be. We don’t want to dominate our marriages and/or relationships. We want the partners we were promised…through good times and bad; through sickness and health; until death do us part. Both men and women can do the “heavy lifting” in… Read more »
This article is interesting, because it really highlights the male v. female internet pissing match. I agree that some women treat all men as threats, but demanding a smile or hello is no one’s right. Sometimes someone is just having a bad day. Also, just because you’re a good guy, it doesn’t mean any woman owes you anything. Not a chat, not a date, etc. However, I won’t say that men aren’t sometimes vilified. But. Women, and especially feminists, are vilified, too. For every time a woman assumes you might roofie her drink, a man assumes a woman can’t run… Read more »
‘Scuse the very uncool practice of commenting first on my own post, but I meant to get to something and …forgot. Heh. When women judge prematurely and excpect all men to be macho or otherwise, and assume men are whiny privileged jerks, it’s a lot like when men judge feminists and call them demanding, spoiled brats. And please, please don’t take every feminist article about gender relations as an attack. Women misspeak, just as men do. I’m guilty of saying “men suck” (even to my very un-sucky fiance) at times out of exasperation. But when I say those words, I’m… Read more »
Nicely said, Erin. Been there too.
Great post Erin, same here too.
‘woman’ and ‘feminist’ are not the same thing. I love women. I hate feminists.
I really want you to know that I don’t hate you, nor do I hate men in general, nor MRAs in general. I wish I could make you understand that feminism doesn’t mean hatred against men. Maybe for some women and men it does, but it’s a viewpoint that can only hurt both sexes. Your interpretation of feminism differs from mine, and I get that when I identify as a feminist your hear “man-hater” or “anti-MRA” but I’m not that person. I wouldn’t be spending so much time here if I wasn’t trying to get a grasp of the MRA… Read more »
And I wish to make you understand that the dictionary or you description of what feminism Means to you has ZERO bearing on how feminism affects men. And there is plenty of feminist hate and injustice directly attributable to feminism, and feminists. None of which is even acknowledged, let alone addressed, by ‘reasonable’ feminists. All we see is hate and condemnation. And when we tell you that, your response is meal-mouthed defense lawyer tactics, denial, and minimization. And you’re the kind of feminist that ‘cares about men’? Gee, I wonder why you have such a crappy rep… You deserve it.… Read more »
Just like he is not entitled to a smile ,eye contact or a chat neither should you expect WHY ? .if you say something and someone chooses to uses that to judge so be it .dont ask men to be respectful yet double talk and when you say some thing is viewed as assholish from a guy point of view they should stop and go but WHY .
I guess I miscommunicated. I don’t mean that I think I’m entitled to a “why.” I just think it’s more productive. And I intented to advocate both men and women asking that question to try to understand each other. I didn’t mean to imply that it is or should be a one-way street. My entire point was that no one is entitled to anything from anyone else, but if we want the world to be better for everyone, there is something we can do in trying to understand each other and look out for our fellow people. That goes for… Read more »
Transcend the gender binary by having equal compassion for men as you do women. To assume gender roles and expectations are ok for men but not for women creates a gender binary.
I don’t think gender roles are any more ok as applied to men than women.
“The key is mutual respect and healthy curiosity about other individuals.”
The entire point of that comment was to show the experience I’ve had as a woman, but to point out repeatedly that rigid gender roles harm both men and women, and that if a woman tells you how to be, it’s wrong, and if a man tells me how to be, that’s wrong, too.
I think you may be misreading what I’m saying.
I share many of the same frustrations as you Tom. But I don’t feel this article is a good representation of my own experience with women. Relationships are very complex. We meet people who we feel want to change something we feel is essential to who we are. It’s very easy to look at gender and point our finger at it as the culprit. It’s because we are men, and they want us to be more like women. That’s the easy answer isn’t it? We don’t need to look a little deeper. If we did, we’d see that maybe they… Read more »
HI Chris, What we are doing here — and what we do best, I believe — is getting a whole, diverse group to tell their stories. Of *their own* experience as men. They might be the same, they might be different — but ultimately there is something most other men — and those women who are supportive of what we are doing here — can get some insight from. That was what was most baffling to us about the “feedback” to Tom. He was writing about his own experience. This was in the middle of a whole series about “the… Read more »
Lisa, I understand and that’s how I took it. Course that’s why we have a comments section so we can express our reaction. I think we learn the most from the feedback section because that represents a community response, and I certainly appreciate Tom’s article to spark it. If you are surprised by the reaction then that may be an insight into some of your own expectations as to how men would receive Tom’s experience. Maybe men are not only different from women in many ways, but maybe we are different from each other in substantial ways as well. It… Read more »
Lisa: This is a feminist website, used to try and indoctrinate men and defuse the men’s moment ( don’t try to deny it, I’ve read the Ms Magazine quote), this is NOT a place for men to talk openly. This is a place where feminists openly advocate for the censorship of men’s voices they disagree with…feminists that are Featured Writers here, no less. And gee, what’s so unwelcoming about knowing there are just some things men aren’t allowed to say in polite company? It sure is a good thing we have you feminists here to tell us men what we… Read more »
I love what ou said here. I’m so tired of this “girls against boys” mentality that pervades the discussion anytime gender is brought into the equation. When we talk about advantage and disadvantage, generally we’re hoping to solve a problem, and focusing on whether or not something happens predominantly to one gender or another serves to polarize us and create further inequality and discord.