Do you like it
when random strangers
approach you?
I have this rule that many people might find incredibly rude, but I stick to it nonetheless.
It is this: If I am sitting alone, wearing my earphones, reading a book or doing both and someone I have never met attempts to engage me in an extended conversation, I get up and leave. I do this for several reasons, including:
1) I don’t want to engage with someone who is clearly disrespectful of my boundaries. My choice to listen to music/audiobook/podcast or read something should be read as a signal that I want to be left alone. If you can’t appreciate this, then you are probably someone I don’t want to talk to in the first place.
2) The type of people most likely to engage me in this situation are almost invariably intoxicated. Intoxicated people are unpredictable. I like being able to predict people’s behaviour. Makes me feel a whole lot safer.
3) The few times I allowed such conversations to happen before I instigated this rule, I almost always ended up sitting there while a drunk person has ranted to me in a manner that spoke to their hatred of other people. I have never once ended up having a nice conversation about puppies, ice cream or the films of Jacques Demy.
4) I have on three different occasions had encounters with strange men in public that escalated from a polite, “Hey, how are you doing?” to my being physically assaulted.
5) Because I don’t want to fucking talk to that person.
I bring this up to explain why I am personally very ambivalent about random people approaching me in public. In certain situations it can be wonderful and has lead to memorable and rewarding experiences, but–for me–all of these involve inherently social contexts where such interactions can be reasonably expected. When it happens randomly, in a situation where I am actively indicating a desire to be left alone, I find it rude and disturbing.
For this reason I found myself incredibly sympathetic to the woman in this video:
Produced for Hollaback, an organization dedicated to fighting street harassment, it features an actress named Shoshana B. Roberts walking through the streets of New York for 10 hours. Filmed by director Rob Bliss, the short video documents many of the comments and unwanted interactions she was forced to deal with in that time. The total came to around 100.
For me, it’s very difficult and uncomfortable to watch. Every time a man talks to Shoshana I squirm, because I can appreciate just how disturbing it can be when a person you don’t know approaches you. Based on my experience, even a seemingly harmless and/or polite greeting can lead to violence down the line. The difference is, I experience such incidents maybe once or twice a month, not every six minutes I’m outside.
Yet many people don’t share my sympathy. Yesterday afternoon on Twitter, as the video began being seen, I was repeatedly confronted with the sentiment that the big problem with the video wasn’t the men, but with Shoshana herself. Many of those comments, they argued, were completely benign or common politeness and it was wrong to suggest through their inclusion that they were examples of harassment. Instead of empathizing with her, they felt sorry for the poor dudes she frosted who were just being nice.
And they might have a point in specific instances involving people who sit on street corners and tell literally everyone they see to “Have a nice day,” but we all know this isn’t what we saw here. These are not cases of indiscriminate good Samaritans attempting to brighten their neighbourhood’s day, but dudes specifically trying to get the attention of a beautiful woman. And she doesn’t want their attention. She doesn’t want to talk to them. Especially since a different guy is saying the same thing to her 10 fucking times an hour. She just wants to be left alone and there is nothing presented here to suggest otherwise. This is not a social situation. She is trying to get from Point A to Point B and she should be able to do so in a way where she feels safe.
I understand how “Have a nice day” can cause just as much anxiety as the dude who screamed and jumped out at me just a few Saturdays back. In his case, I knew he was just an asshole trying to make his friends laugh. I also could take some comfort in knowing I gave him nothing to brag about, since this has happened to me often enough that I’m usually able to avoid flinching or showing other signs of fear. And by “often enough” I mean “a couple times a year” and not “every single time I walk on the sidewalk”.
So, at the risk of not being polite and not being nice, I’m happy to argue that every dude in that video deserves to be there. Because–whatever their intentions–they don’t know what’s going on in Shoshana’s head. They don’t know what she’s experienced that day or throughout her life. They don’t know they aren’t the first person to talk to her that afternoon. They don’t know they’re the 50th. They don’t know anything and when you don’t know anything it’s usually smarter to just shut the fuck up.
@ Erin So now that you’ve gotten all worked up, do you want to take a moment to reflect on why that is? “But don’t try to suggest that asking people for help when you can’t do something, asking people for help when you need it vs telling someone to smile because you want to get in their pants” But my reasons are legitimate argument. Sounds like guys just trying to make conversation or giving a compliment, right? My reasons aren’t bad. “But there have been times I have asked men for help where they clearly were reluctant to do… Read more »
John, can you say that you have never felt worked-up, angry, frustrated, and a host of other emotions when discussing a topic you felt strongly about? I may be a bit worked-up on your comments but I am not angry. I’ll let you know when I’m angry about something instead of you telling me I’m angry. Does that sound fair enough? As for why I got worked up about your comments, simply because I found them to be self-serving and gratuitous. An individual can never ask another individual for help? When they do it means they think their “sh*t don’t… Read more »
I got worked up John because I find your comments self-serving and ignorant. An individual can never ask another individual for help? When they do it means they think their “sh*t don’t stink”? That just doesn’t even translate for me. I’m all for helping other people when they ask and when they don’t ask. Because at the end of the day, I believe life is about just that, helping other people, living in community, giving back. Asking other people for help is nothing to be ashamed of or to feel put-upon from. And it is certainly something you shouldn’t be… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75aX9mlipiY#t=34
So when’s the article about this going to appear?
Yes well, no fair. He is way hotter than she, and also has better tits!
Fix your systems please, I am not a spammer….
Yes, I wish they would fix this too. It is the singular most annoying thing about this website. At times, I avoid coming here because of it.
I would like to see discussion on the class/race/culture issue and how it relates to this particular topic. Stating that there is representation from all walks of life is true in the limited numerical sense, but it avoids what could to be a key area of this dynamic. If you peruse the Hollaback website you will see disclaimers on this very topic, indicating some level of realization, yet maintaining a similar level of avoidance in discussing it openly. A dated article from Feministe discussed this very topic: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/07/20/race-class-and-street-harassment/ The above matter if solutions rather than marketing are the end goals… Read more »
@ elissa
“But the video also has faced some online criticisms, among them that the men shown all seem to be minorities. Bliss and Roberts emphasized that the comments came from all racial groups, and Bliss said some interactions that were filmed couldn’t be used for reasons like the audio was disrupted by passing sirens.”
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/viral-video-documents-new-york-street-harassment/ar-BBc2L37
You would think if that were true that there would have been at least one or two instances out of 100 that they could have found to clearly show white men engaging in this behavior.
To be honest, in my experience, 90% of the street harassment is from Latino or African American men, usually from lower socioeconomic groups, although I’ve been whistled at by white construction workers and guys in pickup trucks. But in the city, there is an ethnic/cultural element. I don’t think however that race or culture gives a man a free pass to be a harasser. I’ve read online comments from Black and Latina women who say this is a huge problem in their neighborhoods to the point they are sometimes afraid to leave their apartments.
I have observed similar Jen, though the crossroads seem more to do with class. A good portion of it comes across as a street performance. I’m sure the financial district has its own – more refined, less direct, more subtle –
I fear some of these chaps need lessons in PUA game -:) Very ironic indeed.
I work in downtown Atlanta. Between my office and my parking lot is a church that supports homeless people and a transit station. Every time I walk by the homeless men, they have to say something to me. I have started taking out of my way detours to not have a predictable route. I bought a taser. On the few occasions that I have responded back to a seemingly ‘nice’ greeting, it had not gone well. It is a serious consideration that I weigh when I consider staying at my job.
There was a bitter, but a somewhat accurate statement I saw once. Basically a humanitarian male/the next jesus who never askes out a woman will remain single but a serial killer who asks out a lot of women will find a date. It was to point out the utter sillyness that is dating, and quite frankly I agree quite a bit with it. Society still heavily expects men to ask out women, and in my own life I know some great guys who are shy and do not ask out women and they remain single. I know some absolutely shitty… Read more »
Well said, Archy.
Amen!
So are you suggesting that he had a point.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/04/us/theodore-wafer-sentenced-in-killing-of-renisha-mcbride.html?_r=0
Maybe she shouldn’t have been pounding on someone’s door at 2:00 or so in the morning. He obviously wanted to be left alone in his house with the door locked and all. She didn’t know him. Not considering the results, how are these arguments that much different than his?
I will take this incredibly, remarkably poorly thought-out question seriously once you show me the part in the video where Shoshana shoots and kills someone. Are you seriously arguing that suggesting a man leaving a strange woman alone on the sidewalk is the same as approving an armed man, standing behind a thick door–and who has time to call the police–shooting a woman in cold blood?
@ Allan Mott The argument being made here is that we should leave a person alone who obviously wants to be left alone. We’re further told that we don’t know the person. We don’t know what stresses they are under, etc. In other words, they could react poorly to the interaction. Whether we believe Wafer or not he claims he was fearful. It seems reasonable to be fearful if someone unexpectedly pounds on your door in the wee hours of the morning. Her action and his reaction are two separate things unless the thinking is that a woman’s reaction can… Read more »
John, there are many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many ways for people to engage in human interaction. If talking to a stranger who doesn’t want to talk to you and who is just trying to walk past you on the sidewalk is your only option, then you are doing life wrong. The reason your argument doesn’t work is because as… Read more »
@ Allan Mott I have a different theory and different explanation. Let’s look at a heirarchy of intrusions and see which are OK under todays progressive guidelines and which are not and who is more likely to intrude on whom. Say hi to a stranger on the street (men / not OK) Ask someone to smile (men / not OK) Strike up a conversation with someone who doesn’t appear interested (men / not OK) Ask someone to help change a tire / get you out of the snow, etc. (women / OK) Ask someone for directions (women / OK) Ask… Read more »
I’m am both disturbed and impressed that you managed to turn a story about a young black woman shot point blank behind a locked door for no reason at all into a victimization of men. I ask people to help me reach stuff off the top shelf all the time. I ask men and I ask women. Do you know what I’ve discovered? That women are always happy to help me. Always. I have never had a situation where I asked a woman for help where she wasn’t happy to do so. A lot of men are happy to help… Read more »
Talk about a straw man argument. Look, you don’t have a right to shoot someone just because you don’t want to talk to them. However, if someone pounds on your door, you have no obligation to answer it. If you are scared in that situation, you can call the cops. We are talking about whether it is okay to annoy strange women in public with unwanted attention just because YOU want to get to know them. They have a right to ignore you or tell you to F off, not shoot you (unless you are actually threatening them with bodily… Read more »
It doesn’t justify the killing, but just to be clear, you’re saying Renisha McBride was wrong for disturbing Wafer because he didn’t want to be disturbed regardless of what she wanted?
Banging on the door is wrong but acceptable if say she is warning him to a fire or whatever, but shooting through the door is also wrong. A warning shot would have been more appropriate.
(1) We are not talking about seeking help in an rmergency, we are talking about bothering strangers with unwanted attention in public places. If a man is having a heart attack, then yes by all means, call out for help. But not “hey gorgeous you are giving me a heart attack.”
(2) Renisha McBride probably should not have banged on the door and windows and created a disturbance as she was apparently doing. But that IN NO WAY justifies shooting her through the door.
(I wrote something earlier that I think was too long. I cut it down considerably, so I hope I’m not doubling up on comments here…) I think one of the things guys don’t get is how extreme the reactions can be. Sure, most guys are polite and wouldn’t hurt a woman for ignoring him on the street, but the fact of the matter is that women live in a world where that is a constant reality. I’ll talk about my experiences and men assume it must be an exaggeration. Recently I was harassed 4 different times while trying to get… Read more »
Yes, I agree with you, Kadie…all of our experiences add up…I walk real fast and wave my wedding ring when men look over….even if it’s an attractive guy…the fact that he just makes that kissy noise as I walk by to cross the street…it’s treating me like I am some kind of dog to be whistled at ….it makes a woman feel cheap or as if he thinks she is a prostitute and not some high level professional on her way to work…. Some mornings I don’t even have the energy to say “F.U.” to all of them…but that is… Read more »
“It’s hard to understand why “hi” is terrifying because most people are decent, normal people who would never dream that this is an every day thing that women go through.” Not to take away from your experience, I want to ask though is this a city thing mostly? I live in a rural area and many of my female friends I’ve asked don’t seem to share this experience every day, or even every year. Although most of us drive a lot here since public transport is near non-existent. What also surprises me is how often New York City is mentioned… Read more »
Archy— You should come to visit NYC some time….you will see it right away… That said…I have had this happen in a shopping mall in a place out in the boonies….with my parents and brother walking alongside of me…when I was about 11 or 12! It was summer and we were walking out of the mall back to our car…and a bunch of teenage boys stared at me and started hooting and yelling (right in front of my parents!)…I just ignored it just like I did when I was in a more urban setting…I couldn’t tell them to STFU in… Read more »
I’m sure it happens here sometimes, as a photographer I’ve seen/heard guys yell out from cars driving past to the model basically like a wolf whistle but with a “woohoo” or whatever when on a photo-shoot. It bothered me a lot, she laughed it off but it annoyed me as I don’t want people harassing others. Didn’t have time or opportunity to say anything either since they were driving past. Never had a friend do anything like that to women around me either, they’d probably get a punch in the arm from someone in our group and told to stfu.… Read more »
I grew up in a small town too, and harassment was very real there as well, but since I was younger, I thought “Well, I just have to go through it.” I remember it was a very popular “game” for guys to try to unhook our bras. Guys I didn’t even know would run up and do this constantly. Then there’s the yelling out of cars, which I felt was humiliating. I grew up feeling incredibly out of place and awkward in appearances, and being called out on the street just for walking scared me. Even when I was walking… Read more »
” I remember it was a very popular “game” for guys to try to unhook our bras. ” In school we had silly stuff like this, but at ours (Rural Australia) both genders did the various harassing behaviours quite heavily. Did much of it happen outside of school, by strangers or was it mostly school kids doing it? Not denying any of this, just curious on why the U.S seems to be so damn full of it if even rural areas get it. I’ve seen a few comments now focus on the U.S for harassment, I wonder if Australia is… Read more »
Ahhhhh Ok. Yeah. See, my old roommate is from Australia, and she was shocked by American culture when we moved to NYC. The way she put it is that America is steeped in Puritanical ideology that sex is bad and that women shouldn’t want sex, and while we’re making strides against that mindset, it’s very much prevalent still in a way that Australia is more liberated. There wasn’t any equivalent in high school for girls to do something like unhooking bras back to guys because then the girl would be a “slut.” At least in my town. I don’t have… Read more »
And as for your quote, “If someone did that to an 11 or 12 year old, I have no doubt there’d be a major issue and they’d be ostracized.”: My hometown is a rural farm town that also has a pretty decently sized university where a lot of students go because it’s a far enough distance away from their parents in the Bay Area. The junior and senior high schools are located within a mile of the college, where many of the students live. There’s a well-known “game” college guys “play” where they sit out on their porches with beer… Read more »
I am also from a more rural area and harrassement happens there too. I suspect that there is just more oppurtunity in the city vs rural areas which is why it’s highlighted more in the city. I’ve been harrassed while rollerblading and biking down a country road inbetween miles of farmland. It’s especially intimdating when your younger and men older then you, even more 20 years older then you shout at their cars to you or a group of them lear at you as you walk by. Alot of these men probably have families of their own even and they… Read more »
I guess women would feel better if men never gave them compliments…..LOL yeah right
There’s a massive difference between when someone gives a legitimate compliment and when someone makes a creepy sexual comment. “Hey sexy” has never once felt like a compliment to me, especially from a stranger.
If that’s truly what you get out of this, then maybe it’s better if YOU don’t.
Here’s what i do: I put on my ‘street’ face, which is carefully constructed so as no to be too ‘dour’, but also not too friendly. Sort of a half smile, half smirk. Then I look straight ahead, and i walk confidently, with my head up. All the while, I’m scanning the area about half a block in front of me to see who I might be coming across, and at the same time I’m mindful of anyone behind or to the side of me. When I pass a man, I will usually put on a mild smile, but not… Read more »
Actually not true, but you carry right on there.
“Most men who appear heterosexual will never understand how it feels to know one is a target just by having certain genitalia, and even more so when one wants to look nice (i.e.one has taken a shower, or wears heels or a dress. Or makeup. ). ” It’s ironic to talk about one gender not knowing about the other genders trouble, when you go and do the same dismissive shit to them. You do not know what most hetero men go through. I’d reword it to “Many men may not fully realize what women often go through”, it’s far less… Read more »
Although it’s not a fair analogy, as I consider a woman walking along in NYC to be much more likely to be approached with microaggressive statements, some certainly downright threatening, I think back to my time living in Japan and Korea. If you’re a foreign face over there outside of the big cities, it’s pretty much a guarantee you’ll have encounters on a daily basis. And though they obviously approach the level of intimidation as those in the video above, it’s hard to argue anyone would be completely comfortable with it day in and day out. I was sitting on… Read more »
“Using this rule, how can we ever hope to meet anyone, or be met in return?”
The Internet works pretty well for me. 🙂
Forgive me, but that’s a really depressing answer.
Really? Then why am I happier now than I ever have been before? Isn’t it possible that how you enjoy engaging with the world isn’t the only possible option?
That’s not what I said, so please don’t assume as such. However, taking all human interaction out of the real world as stated by your rule and into the online world isn’t going to be healthy for any of us in the long run.
Who said you can’t ever talk to anyone? Leave women alone in public spaces. 1. Take a class and be friendly with your classmates. 2. Play chess in the park and talk to your opponents. 3. Go to a party and talk to partygoers 4. Have a party and ask people to bring a friend. Talk to those people. 5. Join an inter mural sports or cards/gaming league. Talk to those people respectfully about the mutual interest. 6. Say hello politely to your service people in life, baristas, servers, janitorial folks. Be friendly to them, ask them how their day… Read more »
@ Joanna Schroeder
“2. Play chess in the park and talk to your opponents.”
Want to point something out. I had a bad experience in the park when I was practicing taekwondo. I was approached by three women and it was an interaction I didn’t care for. Would qualify as street harassment. If you do anything interesting in the public way, you run the risk of attracting people you don’t want to attract.
I agree, it is pretty depressing to stick solely to the internet for meeting people. Tried that, it’s had pretty bad luck and you lack a lot of real-world face to face things that matter like “chemistry”.
There’s this thing called Skype. I find it’s as good a way to judge chemistry as any face to face social situation. I’ve literally traveled across the continent to stay with people who I previously only knew online. It may not be for you, but for some of us it works beautifully.
I’ve done plenty of skyping with people, my first potential partner I heavily webcammed with but when I met her the interactions were very different, and things like body odours, bad breath, etc made her a turn off (along with some abusive behaviour). Even pheremones, body odour (Body_odor_and_subconscious_human_sexual_attraction on wiki should link to the research), etc play a role in attraction, bonding from oxytocin from touching, etc. I like online for getting to know some people but I much prefer face to face, even with my extreme social anxiety. But I have a pretty potent anxiety which actually allows me… Read more »
There are lots of ways to meet people other than chatting them up in public places.
90% of the times I’ve gotten into a conversation with a stranger in public, it’s gotten weird. I’ve concluded that the majority of people in big cities who seek out strangers at bus stops and coffee shops etc. have a screw loose. I think people in small towns can’t understand that.
If I want to speak to a person, I take my earphones out and look up from whatever I’m doing, or make eye contact with someone (provided I don’t just talk to them first.)
“or make eye contact with someone (provided I don’t just talk to them first.)”
Be careful with this advice. I make eye contact with lots of people I don’t want to speak to.
Revised: Prolonged eye contact, not a one second “Whoops, they saw me.”
I just wrote something, yet again, that I wrote somewhere else, because every time this damn page reloads, it erases what I’ve written. So I wrote it on Notepad, then pasted it here, then deleted it off Notepad, then hit “Post Comment,” at which I got the “you might be a spammer” message, and my comment was deleted, and I don’t believe they are ever reviewed and posted. This makes me very angry: just so you know.
Found it and approved it Paul.
Thanks, Allan.
n
I don’t ogle and harrass women in this manner, and I never have. I don’t blame women for hating this kind of attention; it’s tacky and aggressive. But it does make me wonder whether such behavior isn’t an artefact of our culture that deserves understanding, and not simply blame. I was watching a video earlier about bullying, suggesting that what bullies need is understanding, because their behavior is almost certainly caused by their own feelings of worthlessness, and bullying them back is not a helpful solution. Many people disagreed with the message in that it served to justify bully’s behavior… Read more »
I just watched the video this morning. This poor woman!!! Here is what I saw, a bunch of horny men trying to get laid. She is a human being not a piece of meat.
Allan, love your stuff but you may have gone off topic. You don’t like to be interrupted. I don’t take you as a guy who gets intimidated by strange people who want to talk to or compliment you. If I recognized you on the street I would be compelled to say “Allan! Love your stuff” and I’m sure it would brighten your day even though you would have no idea who I am. I hope that we all see the difference between the harmless comments and the intimidating behavior. The intimidating behavior that makes the harmless comments intimidating. The fine… Read more »
I appreciate that I’m not perceived as someone who is easily intimidated, Waylon, but because of my size I do sometimes find myself in situations where I am harassed by someone looking for someone who they (sometimes incorrectly) perceive as weaker than them. This has definitely coloured my experience. And I think the difference is that if you were to compliment me on the street, I would assume you did so without any other agenda than to compliment me. If, however, I was a beautiful woman, it could be fairly assumed that the compliment isn’t being made out of basic… Read more »
And I offer the same wish to you. I wish that no one ever intimidated you in your past so you would feel comfortable when I sit beside you on your park bench and compliment you on your snappy tie, and you feel comfortable enough to tell me it was a gift, and with that the moment would have passed and we both walk away feeling happy. I’m not saying people shouldn’t feel the way they do. But I do wish they didn’t have to. Although I live in a small town, I live just outside of a city that… Read more »
There are many such responses because that’s what the article argues. The last paragraph makes it clear that men should definitely not approach women at all. Re-read that. Some men – including kind and honest guys – may want to get to know Shoshana. But because they don’t already know her, they should just leave her alone.
Yes, you are right, and furthermore, that’s seems to be what she wants. Based on the fact that she is busy and clearly her body language says she wants to be left alone, you should not try to get to know her. Definitely do not approach this woman. That is exactly the point of it. Most (not all) men do need to learn to read and respect body language, tones, and situations. Approaching a stranger in public while they are busy, to try to get to know them is never a situation most, if not all, women want to be… Read more »
I don’t see anything about her body language that, by itself, says not to talk to her. Her unresponsiveness after she’s been greeted? Sure. But before then, no I don’t see it.
Please point out what I am missing. I don’t want to be ignorant about this.
I hope you can show something that is universally recognizable across all cultures, especially since this is NYC we are talking about.
She’s walking determinedly on a sidewalk, deliberately avoiding eye-contact and she’s not responding to anything being said to her by anyone. Do you really find this too difficult to read?
She looks like she’s walking normally to me. Yes, she’s not responding to what is being said to her. But that doesn’t tell you she’s not interested until you’ve tried greeting her and she ignores your greeting (assuming you can tell she probably heard you). And there are a lot of people on the sidewalk. She couldn’t make eye contact with everyone if she wanted to. How can you tell if the lack of eye contact is deliberate or incidental? There’s no way to know if she’s “avoiding” eye contact until you’ve tried to get her to make eye contact… Read more »
Too much clueless* here to deal with. I officially give up.
*Not an insult, just a statement of fact.
“Too much clueless* here to deal with. I officially give up. *Not an insult, just a statement of fact.” Not everyone is trained in spotting these behaviours, and some people genuinely can’t see them. I think it’s especially bad in people with little experience of women’s general behaviour, men’s tends to be more overt and easier to read so it’s easier to see when they aren’t interested. In High school I was clueless to this stuff, wasn’t until mid 20’s that I learned a lot of it and still have a lot to learn. @Prime, “And there are a lot… Read more »
Or maybe Prime, try to get to know her on her terms rather than your own. There’s a huge difference between talking to someone during a social situation where people are expected to mingle and chat and walking past a stranger on the sidewalk. You might feel you are just being social, but it’s completely fair for the other person to regard it as an unwanted intrusion–especially if you’re the 10th dude to talk to them that hour. Sure, you may want to get to know a beautiful woman on the sidewalk, but your desire to do so doesn’t supersede… Read more »
I have had many good conversations, and made acquaintances, with random people on the sidewalk. Such encounters have started off in various ways – a beggar asking for change, someone asking for a cigarette or a light, a compliment or question about nice clothing, a joke or criticism about clothing (e.g. sports jerseys), wanting to pet or ask about a pet being walked, an observation on the weather, etc… Sometimes just a random “Hi, how are you?” has led to more than just a “Fine, thank you.” Shoshana isn’t receptive to such things, but other women are. Few women will… Read more »
So, your argument is it’s okay to harass and approach people who clearly and obviously do not want to be harassed and approached, because there are some people who you claim like to be harassed and approached and it’s not your fault you lack the ability to tell the difference? And it’s an act of bigotry to suggest otherwise?
Just, nope.
Prime [email protected] Why does a simple greeting automatically equate to harassment? Some women aren’t okay with being approached, and some women are. Is it still harassment for the women who are receptive to it? How is the claim that “ALL women are like this” not bigotry? I have first-hand experience where approaching and being approached by random passers-by in the street has led to pleasant conversations, and even later communication with that person. But now I’m supposed to just accept that such things have always and will always be wrong? Even the “leave her alone if she ignores your greeting”… Read more »
whoops. didn’t mean to paste that email address in there.
It doesn’t always, but why run the risk?! Just leave us alone! Smile for a moment, give a nod, keep walking. Treat us like you’d treat a man or a woman you’re NOT attracted to. Our bodes are NOT public property. You have NO RIGHT to do anything to us, even talk to us. Just f’ing leave us alone. If someone said, “There’s a possibility if you do this thing that you’ll be making a lot of people very uncomfortable and even scared” the FIRST THING I would do is NOT do that thing. WHY is it so hard to… Read more »
Why does a simple greeting automatically equate to harassment? Some women aren’t okay with being approached, and some women are. Is it still harassment for the women who are receptive to it? How is the claim that “ALL women are like this” not bigotry? I have first-hand experience where approaching and being approached by random passers-by in the street has led to pleasant conversations, and even later communication with that person. But now I’m supposed to just accept that such things have always and will always be wrong? Even the “leave her alone if she ignores your greeting” advice, which… Read more »
A respectful FIRST contact isn’t harassment. The collective barrage she gets is probably harassment but the first contact ones who are respectful aren’t at much fault apart from the spotting body language thing which can be tricky to get right. Technically the harassers were the ones that kept going, the one that said god bless you probably isn’t a harasser, the ones that said Hello probably aren’t. The unwanted compliments “Hey beautiful” is a tricky issue, it can leave some women feeling harassed but I wouldn’t call a single “compliment” like that harassment. Harassment entails going past someones boundary, but… Read more »
“So, your argument is it’s okay to harass and approach people who clearly and obviously do not want to be harassed and approached, because there are some people who you claim like to be harassed and approached and it’s not your fault you lack the ability to tell the difference? And it’s an act of bigotry to suggest otherwise? Just, nope.” It’s not clear, otherwise you wouldn’t have guys (possibly girls) thinking she walks normally. Her body language is pretty damn subtle before the first approach, it’s only overt once the approach has happened (the ignoring and lack of eye… Read more »
That’s why it’s called “Street Harssment” Archy. It’s specific.
Initial, respectful openings are considered street harassment? I just read an article on street harassment which seemed to suggest initial respectful openings are ok.
@ Allan Mott “So, your argument is it’s okay to harass and approach people who clearly and obviously do not want to be harassed and approached” Is it or is that what you’d like it to be? I was coming to a street corner and there were two women standing there. One was blind. As I was coming up, the light changed. The sighted woman crossed the street. From behind the blind woman, I told her the light was green. She started to cross, but started veering ring into the intersection. I told her this and gently guided her back… Read more »
Now you are being deliberately obtuse. Helping a blind person across the street is not the same thing as chatting up a woman in the street you think is pretty to try to score a date..obviously. I think you are smart enough to not be confused here.
yes, that is the message. Leave her alone. Your desire to get to know a beautiful woman in no way supersedes her right to go about her day. She is not obligated to let you get to know her. She owes you zilch. There are other more appropriate places to meet women than accosting them on the street when they have done absolutely nothing to indicate they want you to talk to them.
I am not particularly afraid that any given man who says hello will get violent (although it’s always in the back of my mind), but I am afraid of getting drawn into an unpleasant interaction with a guy who will probably ogle my breasts and make inappropriate remarks. And please keep in mind that the chance that I would go on a date with a random man who says hello to me on the street is around 0.00001%.
you shouldn’t provide odds, some dude will think he’s the ONE and point to your published statistic of 0.00001% possibility as “not zero”
We should really find a way to distinguish between genuine attempts to get to know an attractive person and what we see here — a straightforward bullying. The purpose of all these calls is to make the harasser feel empowered by intimidating somebody else. So yes, there are cases when greetings are wonderful and friendly, yet it is not the words that create the effect, but the tone and the body posture. The words are a masquerade, but nobody should be confused about the intention. Disguised as a greeting, phrases like “how you doing?” enable the harasser to avoid responsibility… Read more »
Excellent comment Julis.
You put this perfectly. It’s tough because a lot of the examples I see or have guys use in their discussions with me are all about body language, and that’s hard to describe. It turns into this “Well HE did it, why can’t I?” and it’s so difficult to explain precisely the way in which their body language was off-putting, and it winds up being a defensive argument rather than an open discussion.
Thank you for this article! Very refreshing to read. “She is trying to get from Point A to Point B and she should be able to do so in a way where she feels safe.” This is the point that a lot of men seem to miss. Most women, when some guy tells them to smile or calls them beautiful on the street, want to tell the guy to go fuck themselves. We don’t because we’re afraid of violent retaliation; it makes sense to think that the types of men who act entitled to a stranger’s attention and who talk… Read more »