Joanna Schroeder wants us to face the truth about the type of prejudices we all carry inside of ourselves, and try to figure out how to combat them.
I know racism is alive and well in America, and yet I don’t believe that the majority of people in our society consciously want to be racists. I don’t even think John Derbyshire wants to be a racist, and yet he clearly is.
So how is racism still so pervasive? Clearly we are doing things unconsciously that propagate racism. But how do we address people on behaviors that they don’t even know they’re doing? It feels like an unsurmountable problem, a Catch-22: We want to stop racism, but we don’t believe we’re racists, so we don’t feel responsible for actually being the ones to stop it.
The first thing we need to think about is why racism still exists. And I just read a great description of how racism survives, even when most people outwardly condemn it. It’s from Lindy West over at Jezebel in her piece A Complete Guide to Hipster Racism:
“People benefit from racism—hell, I benefit from it every day—and things that benefit powerful people don’t just suddenly get “fixed” and disappear because Halle Berry won an Oscar or whatever. Modern racism lives in entrenched de facto inequalities, in coded language about “work ethic” and “states’ rights,” in silent negative spaces like absence and invisibility, and in Newt Gingrich’s hair. And in irony.”
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad free
We walk around believing that because slavery is illegal, and has been for some time, that racism is gone. I don’t know anyone in the Klan. No one I know would even hang a Confederate flag (though they might in the town where I grew up). Clearly our racism is manifested in some very subtle ways. Of course, racism comes out in incredibly obvious ways, too, but in this case, I really just want to look at how well-intentioned people are propagating racist attitudes.
♦◊♦
Now, we all have prejudices. I’ve written before about how I’m suspicious of people who love cats. I think cats are cute, but I don’t understand letting an animal shit in your house, even if it’s in a box of dirt (that you buy at the grocery store?). I barely let my family shit in my house, I’d prefer they all wait until they’re at school or at work. But I digress… Anyway, this is my own freaky hang-up. It’s a prejudice. I pre-judge cat-lovers as strange. It’s terrible, I’m a jerk for doing it. But I can’t help it. So I remind myself when I meet a cat-lover (Oliver Bateman I’m talking about you) that cats are awesome, and not everyone is as weird as me.
Here at The Good Men Project we’ve been trying to tackle the prejudices society holds against men. Society prejudges men by thinking they aren’t nurturing parents, that they aren’t trustworthy care-givers, that they’re violent, that they’re sex-crazed, that they are emotionally unavailable, that they aren’t emotionally affected by sexual or domestic abuse the way women are. Challenging notions about masculinity can feel like an uphill battle, because a lot of people feel that men shouldn’t receive the sort of sensitivity that every other segment of the population does. But the truth is, men are incredibly diverse and often suffer under people’s prejudices as well.
♦◊♦
When it comes to race, we all carry some prejudices. We’ve grown up in a racist society, we simply cannot help but absorb some of those messages. I have messed-up messages worming around in my head about about almost every race and nationality I can come up with, including white people. Especially Europeans, i.e. Dutch people are cheap, French are snobs, Belgians are ugly, Italians are over-sexed, Serbs are violent… (I’m Dutch and my husband is a Serb so we’re screwed).
The work of being a good person is to question oneself and the traditional ways of thinking that have created these fallacies in our minds. The trick is to watch the thought come into your mind, and to challenge it each and every time. I meet a French person, I think snob. And then I think, Shut up, sub-conscious, you’re being prejudiced. Give Jean-Pierre a chance. And boom! I’ve taken the first step toward exploding my internal prejudices.
This doesn’t mean that I’m forcing myself to think Jean-Pierre is perfect, but it means I’m going to do my best to see him as an individual, rather than a member of a group that my little diseased brain has a pre-conceived notion about. I remind myself that although Loony Toons taught me weird things about French accents (Pepe Le Pue?), it’s just an accent. It means nothing about a person. This little internal monologue works pretty well, though I’m sure I still screw up sometimes. Who doesn’t?
So I couldn’t help but laugh (and cry inside, a bit) when I read Lindy West’s list of ways in which Hipsters are being racist in their everyday language and actions. And I want to note for the record that I do not fully consider myself a Hipster, as I do not shop Vintage or listen to The Shins. But I will smugly admit to the fact that I own the exact pair of sunglasses the Klan-Hipster in the Jezebel graphic wears, and I ride a skateboard in public. Oh, and my husband has a neck-beard and wears dark-rimmed eyeglasses. As do I (the glasses, not the neck-beard).
♦◊♦
Now that we’re all clear, here are my favorites of West’s main points, synopsized. You’ll have to cruise over there to read the whole thing:
#1: “Tee-Hee, Aren’t I Adorable?” – Basically she asserts that when cutesy little white girls who grew up on the Upper West Side or in Grosse Pointe or Beverly Hills flash gang signs and talk about how “ghetto” something they like is, they’re being racists. Why? Let’s let West explain what’s actually being said when a blonde thing like me uses a hashtag like #thuglife:
“See, it’s hilarious, because we aren’t thugs—we are darling girls, and real thugs are black people who do crime!”
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad free
For the record, I’ve never used the hashtag #thuglife. First, I don’t get hashtags at all. Second, I agree with West. It’s obnoxious and presumptuous. I get it that us Hipsters think we’re making fun of ourselves when we make a joke like this, but there’s a sinister underbelly to the joke—the idea that we’re above thug life, that we’re above the ghetto. Mostly because we’re white. But also because the people in the ghetto are others and we are not like them in any way.
I also really dug West’s Point #3: “Ummm, I’m a Writer and I’m Trying to Write in Here!”… It has to do with the righteous indignation some white people have over not being “able” to use the N-word in their writing or language. This is something that has always perplexed me. I hear people say, “Black people can say the N-word, but I can’t? Why not?”
It seems obvious to me why you cannot use the N-word, but somehow this is a hard thing for me to answer. Despite trying probably a dozen times, I’ve never quite found the right words to explain it. But West nails it:
It’s all tied up with the deliberately obtuse people who conflate “freedom of speech” with “immunity from criticism.” You “can” say the n-word. Go ahead and say it if you want, Skrillex. And I will go ahead and give you the world’s most sidewaysiest eyeball forever. Because it hurts people. Why do you want to hurt people?
Nailed it. Because it hurts people. You have a lot of words at your disposal, friends. You don’t need that one.
And as far as your jokes where you say things like “I’m going full-on Heeb here,” or “I’m Negro Tan,” and then you laugh because it’s clear you’re actually not an anti-Semite or a racist, so it’s funny… Well it’s not funny. It’s actually racist! And by saying it, you actually sound like a racist!
And here is where West verbalizes something we all know (or should know) about what makes good comedy funny:
People in positions of power simply cannot make jokes at the expense of the powerless. That’s why, at a company party, you never have a roast where the CEO is roasting the janitor (“Isn’t it funny how Steve can barely feed his family? This guy knows what I’m talking about!” [points to other janitor]).
While I’m not sure “powerless” is the exact right word, I would say the message is true. White people are still in power in this country. You know that little thought experiment: “Name ten very wealthy black people off the top of your head who don’t work in sports or entertainment.” No, seriously, try it right now.
It doesn’t matter who you think you are inside, the world gleans its understanding of who you are by what you say and what you do. Your language defines you, and what’s worse, the language you use defines us as a culture. And I really don’t want our culture defined like that. I know I’m not the boss of all (or any) white people, but seriously, knock that shit off.
Let’s watch our words, friends. They matter. And let’s try to keep an eye on our thoughts while we’re at it, too. Oh, and tell me when I’m wrong and I’m screwing something up. As I said, I’m a product of this culture, too, and I hope you’ll all hold me responsible for doing better every day. Seems to me the best way we can heal all these wounds is by holding one another accountable for doing better.
Another note that is tangentially related: Don’t jokingly call me “bitch” or “whore” or “slut” either. I don’t dig that. That is some Hipster shit that needs to end right now.
Image of a Hipster cat in a hoodie courtesy of penguino.
Image of me in ironically oversized Hipster sunglasses with Hipster road rash from falling off my Hipster skateboard courtesy of myself.
Stop the presses, I figured it out all by myself. How’s this:
If you’re white, you can have black friends, and maybe ought to try to have black friends, but just don’t SAY you have black friends. Or at least don’t volunteer the fact that you have black friends.
I just figured something out about discussing hot-button issues like racism and sexism. I can’t believe it took me so long to see the solution to dysfunctional debate. Here’s my idea: I should stipulate ad hominem statements about me beforehand, to save everyone a lot of wasted energy. I hereby admit and accept anything anyone says about me as a person. Whatever you guess my motives are, those are my motives. Whatever you say about me as a person is true, no matter what it is. I am a terrorist, rapist, child-molesting, victim-blaming, racist, misogynistic, homophobic serial killer who clubs… Read more »
I quite love this comment.
Wellokaythen, I appreciate your effort, and I think this comment is well taken. I’m glad you came out and said it. I’m just concerned because if we look back on the threads of the previous page, it seems like a lot of ad hominem statements are actually masquerading as “solutions” to racism. I tried to express this in Lisa Hickey’s thread on “The Crossroads” but I think you’ve put much more force to it. Too often it seems like the “solution” to the problem is to adhere to a certain viewpoint. When you disagree, then you are labeled with some… Read more »
Wellokaythen, Julie, Mike L — I appreciate all of your efforts to move these difficult conversations forward. And I do agree with you wellokaythen — call me every name in the book if you must, but I’d really prefer to just work together to figure it out with whoever wants to help. Thanks all.
Lisa, Except the problem is that it’s not about name-calling. And notably nobody’s been name-calling. It’s about the privilege others use to dismiss, minimize, marginalize, and ignore the experiences of people of color, acting as if they know better — despite never having to experience racism — than those communities. They ask for proof when proof has already been provided a thousand times over, and simultaneously they never care to take some responsibility to educate themselves on the issue. There are legions of groups (like the protestors for Trayvon Martin, the NAACP, the ACLU, the ADL, etc) that are working… Read more »
Excellent. Now we’re getting somewhere. I already stipulated in my auto-ad-hominem that I am ignorant, I’m blinded by privilege, I don’t care about other people, and I don’t take responsibility to educate myself. If I left something out of that list, it’s because I’m also careless and a poor listener. I hope that covers it. Now, onto some objective substance. The effect of certain expressions of opinion seems to be a perfectly testable hypothesis. One hypothesis seems to be that messages such as the ones I have written have hindered the struggle against racism and has hurt people. Also, my… Read more »
I absolutely know it’s not about name-calling Zek. And I’m a huge advocate of fighting against marginalization of any sort.
But besides calling people out by name and drawing attention to racism wherever we see it — what else to you find actually works to create change Zek?
Lisa, I think constructive dialogue is helpful, where People of Color are given a platform and privilege to speak at length about their experiences. I think teaching people about the systemic inequalities in various institutions — such as the courts, policing, education, etc. — are also important. I think grounding people in what words like prejudice, discrimination, racism, and privilege actually mean is important. I think Nick’s article was a great step. I’d like to see more of it. I’d also like to see more discussion about less hyped cased too, like the two White Kansas residents that went shooting… Read more »
Sorry, Lisa, I’m thinking now that personally insulting myself is probably a violation of the editorial policy against ad hominem attacks. Can I get a special dispensation because I’m just doing it to myself and not someone else?
(I seem to remember some fragment from childlood that ad homineming yourself puts hair on your palms or something like that, but maybe I’m misremembering.)
Dispensation granted.
I am all for anything that gets these difficult topics talked about in a way that gets us to common ground, a common language. Less marginalization. We need to figure out a way to talk about these things without dismissing, minimizing, or marginalizing. That I believe.
I think I’m going to save this page just because of this comment here. It pretty much sums up how many people approach Internet discussions.
I don’t really have any black friends at all. So, if I say _that_ instead of saying I have black friends, does that mean that I’m not racist? If saying one thing is racist, then saying the opposite ought to be non-racist. Does it work like that?
Marianne:
Ultimately, I think when the term racist is used to describe racially-motivated attacks (verbal or physical) on white people, the intent is skewed towards the former rather than the latter. That’s my opinion.
Oh you’re more than welcome to your opinion. We’ll just have to disagree on it. I think that the thought that its appropriation is a fear that some group is going to lose their victim status. A fear that they are going to lose some exclusive birth right or something.
“1. Colorblindess. Doesn’t work. It actually lead …… magically go away. It will not.” “Colorblindness” is no more then a term I use which relates to my relationships with people. I see people for who they are, not their color. “Colorblindness” doesn’t void my seeing the disparity which relate societal issues. In fact it in my case it makes it more clear because I can see that the only factor is color. “2. You’re not a minority. I too went to a school which was primarily attended by People …. Black friends are still racist.” You tend to over think… Read more »
Zek, I respect your opinion and have to say that I’ve enjoyed much of what you’ve written at the TGMP. I’m glad you responded as you did in that it’s what I’ve experienced in life. I know who I am and what I’ve stood for many years. I’m not sure what you expect a white non-racist to look like, say or do. I have nothing to prove. Your comment could be discouraging for many who are not racist but will question themselves now simply because you may have over analyzed something someone said. I don’t expect you to understand what… Read more »
Tom, I respect and thank you for your appreciation of what I’ve written. I do apologize if at any point you felt personally attacked. Let’s try to have a sincere discussion then. I’m going to respond to both your comments in this section. I don’t expect anti-racists to look like anything. I’ve seen them in Birkenstock’s as much as in Nike’s. I don’t think you’re a poseur or a fake. I take you at your word, no more, no less. Although I’m white, I have experienced racism in my life through my family members. Being married to a women of… Read more »
You do know that most of you sound crazy?…all of these prejudices you are carrying around…not to pick on you, but black people are more spiritual? Really? Three examples of race/ethnic craziness in my life… Item 1) A guy doesn’t like black people. Wouldn’t hang out with them. Goes to basic training and helps a guy (who is black) go AWOL. My question; “Why would you do that? Especially for a black guy.” Answer; “Well, he’s not really like other black people. He’s a good guy”. My response; “What?”. Item 2) A guy doesn’t like black people. Wouldn’t hang out… Read more »
I have a problem with the unencumbered use of the terms, ‘hipster’ and ‘white people’. It’s not a healthy starting point for a conversation about stereotypes and prejudice to take the acceptability of these labels for granted. Both are offensive.
I can comfortably say that I am colorblind but in todays society, there are some people who struggle with my being so. I have to tell ya, I get tired of being told that because I’m a middle aged white guy from an upper middle class suburb that I’m racist. I work with a lot of inner city kids. I grew up in an area of Chicago which in now considered one of the most gang infested areas in the country (Little Village). I was the minority in my high school and I’m thankful for attending that school as the… Read more »
Tom, I understand you say you’re not racist, but… Your comments contains a lot of questionable references which have historically been used as a smokescreen by racists. In fact, they’re such common tropes that anti-racists have actually listed them as stereotypes. 1. Colorblindess. Doesn’t work. It actually leads to equally horrific racism because it attempts to ignore clear racial disparity in everything from housing to education, and even the judicial system. It presupposes that by acting like you personally cannot see race, racism will magically go away. It will not. 2. You’re not a minority. I too went to a… Read more »
Dear Zek, I’d like to believe your take down of Tom’s comment, but it’s full of references to unsubstantiated theories used by Ethnic Studies professors to get out of doing empirical work. Let’s examine them in turn. “Colorblindness doesn’t work,” Actually economist Roland Fryer has convincingly demonstrated that colorblindness could very well work if certain conditions hold, and whether or not those conditions exist is an open question. He has further demonstrated that “racial awareness” can and does lead to bad policies. “You’re not a minority” and “You may comment on White people because you are a White person,” –… Read more »
Thank you Mike
Oh Mike… always following me across TGMP. Well, here we go again… but it’s full of references to unsubstantiated theories used by Ethnic Studies professors to get out of doing empirical work. Fallacy. Just because you think ethnic studies are icky doesn’t change the facts. But more importantly, the things I mentioned are actually from psychology, sociology, and anthropology. They’re common points in all of those disciplines when discussing this subject. However, for me anthropology is my main source as it’s the subject I got one of my Bachelor’s in. Actually economist Roland Fryer has convincingly demonstrated that colorblindness could… Read more »
I didn’t think he was saying that white people claim to understand racism better than people of color, and I don’t think he was saying that white people understand the experience of people of color better than those people do themselves. I thought he was saying that people may intuit or perceive racism sometimes when it’s not really racism at work. Just because one perceives discrimination based on race does not necessarily mean that racial discrimination has taken place. In any given circumstance, a person of color COULD be mistaken in thinking that another person is motivated by racism. The… Read more »
Zek,
You read my entire post incorrectly, possibly on purpose given the seemingly personal nature of your prose. Wellokaythen read it correctly. If you have some time, please go ahead and look at what wellokaythen said above.
Mike,
No, I read your post right; I even read it right intentionally! (How about that?) I just disagreed with you, passionately, purposefully… Because you’re wrong. So wrong it’s like the Gordian knot of wrongness. But you’ll survive, I’m sure — if you ever can learn to accept it =)
Zek, You really didn’t read it correctly, not at all. For example, I never said that anyone was lying about racism. According to you I make this claim multiple times. I’m sure racism is real, and always has been. My point, as Wellokaythen correctly stated, is that we’re all human, regardless of skin color, and that no one, again regardless of skin color, has a monopoly on the objective truth. We can all be wrong in our observations. So while racism exists, that doesn’t mean every time someone observes themselves to be a victim of racism, that they actually were… Read more »
Mike, Beginning with your comments on the Bachelor post, you’ve been consistently misinformed, ignorant, or outright dismissive in discussions about racism at TGMP. You bring no knowledge base on the subject, no expertise or understanding. You bring your own opinion, and the certainty that only you are right against MILLIONS of people’s lived experiences, facts, and evidence. “When facts are reported, they deny the value of evidence; when the evidence is produced, they declare it inconclusive.” ~ Augustine, in The City of God It’d be laughable, if not for White privilege. You state that we can all be wrong in… Read more »
Zek, I’ve repeatedly said here and elsewhere that my observations might be wrong. I believe in critiquing myself extensively. If you had actually read my comments in any of the threads I’ve commented in, you’d know this. There’s literally a post responding to TK under Nick’s article where I straight up say, word for word, that my perception is likely incorrect as well. I’ve always maintained that all perception is likely biased, and that reality is somewhere in the middle. This is the point I’ve been making over and over again. For your part, you accuse me of calling people… Read more »
Clearly people are not colorblind, because “white” people have split personalities when it comes to their own body colors. All sorts of people lie in the sun to get tanned, dye their hair various colors, wear colored contact lens, get tattoos, cover up their gray hairs, even spray on tans if they’re in a hurry. You see white supremacists in prison who have covered their faces and bodies with so many tattoos that they seem to trying to cover every patch of skin with dark ink. Supposedly white is superior but pale is unhealthy and brown is superior and dark… Read more »
You do realize there’s more to race than skin-color, right? Tanning does not equal changing your race. You’re talking about standards of beauty, which still favor White over Black. Just look at any magazine.
Good point about tanning not being the same as changing race. And yet…. This is going to sound like a stupid question, but please bear with me, because I think it points to something important. You mentioned that changing skin color is not the same as changing one’s race. This leads to the question, “Can you change your race, and if so, how do you do that?” I can’t seem to get anyone to tell me what defines any particular race. No one wants to admit that he/she defines races based on physical characteristics. Skin color seems to be the… Read more »
Well, I can give you an anthropological/scientific definition of race, or I can give you a cultural one. Race in America is based primarily on observable traits such as hair texture, skin color, nose shape, lip size, bodily attributes, sexual organ size, head shape, etc. It’s also based on ancestry — what race your parent, grandparents, ancestors, etc., were said to belong to. When looking at magazines, you seem predominantly people who self-identify as White, have features associated with “Whiteness”, and generally defined culturally as White people. They also are White according to anthropological definitions of race. Besides skin color… Read more »
“I think the only person to do so successfully was Michael Jackson. Black boy to White woman in just a few short decades. (Or is that joke “too soon”?)”
And the reason you felt the need to include gender into that insult? What, because being a feminine man is a bad thing? What the hell.
No because the change itself is supposedly so drastic.
Trying to make a joke out of changing from man to woman is not always trying to say that such a change is a downgrade.
HeatherN,
I did not say that at all. I apologize if you were offended. I was simply pointing out, somewhat sarcastically, the somewhat obvious physical resemblance Michael Jackson had towards the end of his life to an older White woman. It wasn’t an insult so much as an insincere answer to wellokaythen’s question regarding people changing their race.
This is going off topic…but see I don’t buy that it wasn’t meant as a dig, at least partly. Otherwise why comment on his gender expression at all, considering it had nothing to do with the rest of the comment? And because he wasn’t a woman, he was still a man. Why call a feminine man a woman? Even at the end Michael Jackson was still a man…he never identified as a woman. Isn’t that just playing into the old traditional stereotypes about what being a man means? Our society holds such importance on being able to ‘pass’ as the… Read more »
Okay, thanks, now we’re getting somewhere. Absolutely right, race has traditionally been defined by various physical characteristics or perceived physical characteristics (or even myths about physical characteristics). These characteristics have been arbitrarily lumped together to invent racial categories. They don’t actually correspond to any real biologically distinct categories. Races are not actually subspecies. These categories are just made up boxes to put people into based on some specific traits that people thought were important. When you look at how complicated human genetics are AND how similar everyone really is, you see how ludicrous it really is to put people into… Read more »
I’m confused by the point of your comment. Are you asking a question, or just talking about the arbitrary definition of race? You are correct, anthropologically speaking, race only exists as a broad categorization of humanity based on genetic ancestry. In forensic anthropology it can be determined based on morphological traits such as face shape, nose bridge, hair texture, etc., but such phenotypic traits are not absolute and frequently change drastically over time. Thus, race as we know it is a cultural construct, and definitely not a subspecies. Notably, Australian Aborigines historically do have a high frequency of blond, wavy/curly/kinky… Read more »
I’m saying that it’s not really “scientifically” based on ancestry at all, unless one is going to rest on pseudo-scientific categories from the nineteenth century, largely put together to explain European superiority over everyone else. (Actually, more accurately created to explain why “Anglo-Saxons” are the superior beings in the modern world.) These are the same theoreticians who gave us such wonderful words as “Caucasian,” “Negro,” and “Asiatics.” Just because people use myths about genetics doesn’t mean they are therefore being scientific or even academic. If the physiological “science” behind race is reliable, then people ought to have no trouble setting… Read more »
Oy vey… okay let me just give you a pretty basic definition of race and the scientific consensus on it. Because you’re like, all over the place here. Check the AAA’s (American Anthropological Association) statement on race. Keep in mind, my bachelor’s is in anthropology, so that’s probably why I like their’s best.
http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm
As for your somewhat out-of-left-field comment regarding diversity hiring practices — those fail because of continuing institutional racism and the sad fact that affirmative action benefits White women instead of racial minorities.
“Check the AAA’s (American Anthropological Association) statement on race. Keep in mind, my bachelor’s is in anthropology, so that’s probably why I like their’s best. http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm” Thanks for the definition. It’s a great one. I may be biased towards it because it seems to agree with my own view of ‘race’ – these are categories without any real biological, genetic, or scientific basis, but are subjective, contingent, and historical inventions that are also fluid and variable within and across cultures. These are cultural categories passed used in the maintenance of privilege and creation of social distinctions. Also a great point… Read more »
In response to Mike L.: “See the problem with Ethnic Studies (and it’s related jokes-of-fields, Gender Studies, Critical Studies, Area Studies, etc.) is that it posits that white people do not have an objective viewpoint, this is fundamental to understanding “invisible privilege.” Absolutely right, except I teach a little bit in an Area Study, so you cannot be correct about Area Studies being a joke-of-field. I mean, of course those other fields are and, and all those other geographical area studies are, but mine is not…. ; – ) At least, it is possible to teach in an Area Study… Read more »
Wellokaythen, I’m sorry for targeting your field, I promise it’s nothing personal. I studied economics, and now I’m in law school studying the economic analysis of law. Economics trains you to use the scientific method relentlessly, and follow the data rather than your own personal beliefs. This makes it hard for me to accept the arguments put forward by other schools of thought because I always want to “see the data” and a lot of times other fields don’t bother with data at all. Economists do work on class/gender/race all the time, and it’s usually promptly ignored by the other… Read more »
No sweat, I was actually just joking about being offended. I admit to being loose with evidence sometimes. I try to let people know when I’m guessing or just tossing some hypothesis onto the table.
Interesting piece. Has some good points. My whole issue when we talk about race and racism in America is that we usually never discuss institutionalized racism. Why are Black and Latino over-represented in the prison system? Why do we prosecute Blacks and White differently when it comes to drug charges? Of course there is intersection of class but we have as a nation systematically entrenched racism so that white privilege can survive whether we actively participate or not. The same shit goes for sexism, hetero-normative privilege and so forth. So I don’t give a damn what people feel or think… Read more »
Thanks for the article, Joanna. It’s appreciated that you parsed the difference between the personal (prejudice) and the systemic (racism).
This piece represents basically every single reason that I will never agree with with arguments made by academics that teach [Insert Supposed Oppressed Group Here] Studies. We begin with a series of unsupported assumptions: racism is “entrenched,” and exists because it “benefits” groups that we’ll loosely define as “powerful people.” The alternative, that racism is loosely held by a non-powerful segment of the population, and that it is held out of spite (as opposed to seeking gain), is not going to be considered. Because we’re not really concerned with evidence, just with looking for confirmation of our preconceived assumption. Now… Read more »
Yes. You are my new hero. THIS is what I’ve been trying to say. I would be more comfortable wrestling with “the problem of racism” if we could actually test it somehow. There ought to be some sort of test for racism, or some way to measure whether or not it really is getting worse or better or is unchanged. If the assumption is that racism exists and that trying to be non-racist is inherently racist, then that means that racism is indestructible. Okay, that could be true, theoretically, but that means that fighting racism is just foolish in that… Read more »
This would be true about any mission. Humans have long term dreams and live short term lives. No one likes to give up power, whether it is institutional or just in a non profit. At least it seems that way.
What would such a test look like? How do you make people take it?
I admit I don’t know what such a test would look like. Maybe a series of questions on a point system, so if you scored 0-5 points you are only mildly racist, 6-10 points you are solidly racist, or 11-15 you are a klan leader. Like one of those magazine quizzes about relationships or something. I just think that if someone is accused of being racist and there is no possible way to ever prove one’s innocence, then there is no reliable truth in the statement. If anyone and everyone is guilty of the same thing, then the accusation is… Read more »
Great essay, Joanna!
I love Kids – they are the most Prejudiced Group I have ever encountered, and yet also the one’s who are quickest to throw Prejudice Under the Bus! Prejudice is not all bad. It’s good for survival. Kids use it all the time – and it even gets exploited to make millions – even billions of dollars for share holders. Kids are prejudiced towards food. It’s good for survival. You don’t eat things unless you know they are safe. Kids learn that from adults. Eat healthy well balanced meals with your kids, and they will eat Broccoli! Leave them sitting… Read more »
I completely disagree with the #thuglife discussion. I think it is actually racist to assume that someone using #thuglife is racist.
Hipsters aren’t racist, they are classist. They mock the lower class when they do things like go slumming and discuss how ghetto they are. It just happens that in this country the lower class is made up a lot of non-whites, and so is associated with them.
That’s an incredibly great distinction, Kevin, and I’m so glad you made the it. And I agree about the classist element. I do think there’s an intersectionality in the correlation you point out, that the lower classes happen to be less “white” … However, they could also be saying “white trash” or “trailer trash” or “redneck” and say the same classist thing, but they’re not. In Michigan we say 8 Mile because that’s poor white (and poor black, but generally 8 Mile refers to seriously trailer-park white trash). Saying “thug life” doesn’t conjure Eminem, it conjures 50 Cent. But I’ve… Read more »
Well I do remember back when “White trash” parties were popular. Also I was thinking about the “n word” issue. And I have a second theory. A lot people enjoy pushing the envelope by using racial slurs, cause it shows how edgy you are. We’ve gotten to the point where non-blacks don’t want to say N***** because it is finally pretty strongly associated with racism. At this point, the way to push the envelope is then to comment on the fact that you can’t say N*****. That or by saying that they hope to show how post-racial they are: “I’m… Read more »
Yeah, I think you’re right that people think they’re so post-racial they can use it.
I know a white guy who says the N word (joking in that post-racial way) but then also punched a guy out for saying racist shit last week.
Let’s just not use it. That’s how I feel.
Another major reason why racism is alive and well is because it is NOT just overt hatred wrapped up in negative stereotypes. Racism also carries insidious negative stereotypes disguised as “positive” stereotypes, and the pseudo-positive myths are the ones that are the hardest to break. A lot of them are just retreads of older, more blatantly nasty myths. Some of the most extreme forms of racism don’t look like racism because they seem like such “positive” ways of looking at people of color. For example, I’ve noticed a pretty big unspoken assumption among my white liberal friends that people of… Read more »
Great post. I can certainly identify with what you are saying, especially with regard to church/ spirituality.. Having attended both black and white churches, I can see the difference between each culture’s expectations on how spirituality is shown/ experienced.. Liberals and conservatives do look down on the other’s ‘spritual experience’. A shame, because the faith itself is a common denominator, and the glue that would bind the one to the other is often ignored.
For the record, I’ve never used the hashtag #thuglife. First, I don’t get hashtags at all. Second, I agree with West. It’s obnoxious and presumptuous. I get it that us Hipsters think we’re making fun of ourselves when we make a joke like this, but there’s a sinister underbelly to the joke—the idea that we’re above thug life, that we’re above the ghetto. Mostly because we’re white. But also because the people in the ghetto are others and we are not like them in any way. In other words, “Well yeah those other peopledo it but since we aren’t those… Read more »
Yeah, Lindy West is so fricking funny and smart. I love her even when I don’t 100% agree.
I’ll make it more simple: It’s funny because there’s absolutely NO threat that I’m ever going to have to live in the ghetto or resort to being a “thug” to survive and feed my family.
If one is racist, sexist, and/or homophobic, and doesn’t want to be but hasn’t yet been able to work through and eliminate one’s racist, sexist, and/or homophobic emotional reactions, should one admit them to one’s African-American, Hispanic, Asian, female, and LBGT friends?
Since everyone is racist (except me) wouldn’t the first act in combating racism be to admit that being a racist is natural? Of course peeing in your pants is natural, but I wouldn’t recommend doing that on a regular basis either.
Racism is the act of systematically oppressing people based upon race.
Prejudice is the biased thinking toward groups that we all have inside of us.
Prejudice, if challenged within ourselves and within our communities, doesn’t have to become racism.
And, no, I don’t think we’re all racists.
More accurately, racism is a set of arbitrary cultural ideas grouping people into “racial” categories. The whole idea that “races” exist is a racist concept. It is actually motivated by many reasons and has many effects. There are racist ideas that don’t seem racist because they seem so uplifting and politically astute but that are still racist. (See my comment below.) Racism is not just overt negative treatment of one people to benefit other people. Racism can also take the shape of “positive stereotypes” used to counter negative ones, but those are still racist and still ultimately negative towards the… Read more »
I think one of the easiest and most common ways to derail a conversation is by redefining terms.
Racism is not an act, it is a belief. All isms are beliefs. You can act on racist beliefs but you cannot commit a racism.
Short post, but it was a good one. The definition of racism being used often changes to suit one’s argument in my experience. The overall usage has even changed in my lifetime. When I was a kid (not all that long ago either, I’m 27) racism was, roughly speaking, treating someone different because of their race. Now? The fastest way to be called racist is to treat everyone the same regardless of their racial heritage. When did it change? I have my suspicions it was politically motivated.
Joanna,
When you argue using “definitions” you know that your arguments are all tautologies, right?
I believe changing definitions in the middle of argument is technically “equivocation” and not a tautology, though I may be misremembering my logic class. Certainly definitions can be set up to create a tautology.
What’s great about circular reasoning is that it’s so unbreakable. No seams.
You’re getting there, slowly, but you’re getting there.
Racism exists everywhere in the world, even in countries where there are no white people to blame.
Even blacks and feminists can be racist.
Oh yeah that remindds me of something else I wanted to say.
There is not a single group affiliation in existence that when you claim it suddely grants you immunity to being -ist.
If you think that since:
you’re a woman you can’t be seixst towards men, you’re wrong.
you’re black you can’t be racist towards whites, you’re wrong.
and so forth and so on.
Yeah, and that’s why I said that we all have prejudices. I admitted to having prejudices against white people and I’m white. But some prejudices are worse than others (though all should be examined) because when you’re part of a group that historically has the power, and you’re prejudiced against a group that historically has been oppressed, those prejudices can be exponentially more damaging if they’re not faced and dealt with.
Oh I agree that you recognize this. But unfortunately a lot of people don’t. A lot of people use just what you said here as a reason to simply sidestep -isms. But some prejudices are worse than others (though all should be examined) because when you’re part of a group that historically has the power, and you’re prejudiced against a group that historically has been oppressed, those prejudices can be exponentially more damaging if they’re not faced and dealt with. This is the exact reasons people like to use when explaining why female against male sexism does not exist or… Read more »
White people cannot be victims of racism. Sorry, they just can’t. Racism, as Joanna correctly states below, is the act of systematically oppressing people based upon race. White people can experience prejudice or stereotyping based on the colour of their skin, but it’s not the same (or anywhere near as severe) as racism because racism is active oppression. They say it at this article on Social Justice League better than I do. http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2012/04/the-revolution-will-not-be-polite-the-issue-of-nice-versus-good/ “They [white people] do not understand that using a racist slur is bad in any sense other than it hurts someone’s feelings. […] So if you –… Read more »
Right well, I think I know some Irish people who’d disagree with you there…but I kind of understand what you’re saying. It’s just that when you say “white people” it’s too broad a group to really portray what I think you’re trying to say.
As an Irish person, the worst racism I have encountered abroad was two wildly offensive pieces of theatre and being called a “mick” by a superior in my job. Prejudice and stereotyping certainly exists around being Irish (as it does around most nationalities) but there is no longer any kind of system in place that deprives us of opportunities and basic rights. In fact, in my travels I’ve found that the whole world seems to love us.
Well first, you didn’t specify whether you were talking about throughout history or just at the moment. I took your statement to mean that white people have never been victims of racism…which is why I mentioned the Irish, well and the Scottish. Basically the English screwed over everyone else on the British Isles at some point…and really not that long ago.
Second, and something I didn’t mention in my first comment, is the problem of using the term ‘white people’ anyway. Arabs could be considered white, for example, but they’ve definitely suffered from systematic oppression in some countries.
…which is why I mentioned the Irish, well and the Scottish. Basically the English screwed over everyone else on the British Isles at some point…and really not that long ago. Why does Wales and The Welsh always get missed out? P^) But seriously – It is a pattern of Racism and Negation that runs very deep. I’m Not Welsh or of Welsh Descent, but I know too many “y Gymraeg” who get fed up being missed – and just how “y Gymraeg” lost out long before the Irish and Scots did! There were major Emigration Forcers in Ireland (Potatoe Famine)… Read more »
Don’t worry, I didn’t forget the Welsh. I figured saying “everyone else on the British Isles,” would include the Welsh…and the people on all the other little islands, because I’m not sure whether something like the Isle of Mann, or Orkney Isles, or whatever were ever considered separate and their own identity, historically. I imagine they were…thus…’everyone else.’
HeatherN, point noted, “white people” is an amorphous term, though I think most people don’t include Arabs in their mental conception of white people. I guess when I say “white people” I mean “people who benefit from white privilege,” which many middle-Eastern, Hispanic or Asian ethnic groups most certainly do not. And even though I’m well aware of the long history of Irish oppression at the hands of the English, I have difficulty viewing it as racism. They didn’t invade and colonize us specifically because we were Irish and they hated the Irish, they colonized us because we were THERE.… Read more »
And the European colonialists didn’t invade and oppress the people of Africa because they were African…they did it because they were there. Racism (and ethnocentrism) was used as a justification for the systematic oppression of Africans both in Africa and back in the colonial countries. What you pointed out, having a clan system and without infrastructure…that’s exactly why colonizing Africa worked as effectively as it did. It’s not exactly the same, of course…but then the colonization and suppression of every region is slightly different to each other. And with the Irish, Scottish and Welsh the color of their skin wasn’t… Read more »
So if you – the oppressed – hurt someone’s feelings, you’re just like the oppressor, right? Wrong. Oppression is not about hurt feelings. It is about the rights and opportunities that are not afforded to you because you belong to a certain group of people. When you use a racist slur you imply that non-whiteness is a bad thing, and thus publicly reinforce a system that denies POC the rights and opportunities of white people.” And besides who said its just about hurt feelings? A few days ago a white man was beaten by a group of black people and… Read more »
A white man being beaten as “justice for Trayvon” is a horrific thing to happen, but I do not view it as a switch in “oppressor vs. oppressed” roles. I view at as an oppressed group lashing out (in a violent and criminal way) against a system that will not take a white man into custody even after he has admitted to following and shooting a defenseless black teenager in cold blood. I do not think black people are incapable of doing racially-motivated violence to white people, in the example you cited specifically, I see it as a symptom of… Read more »
A white man being beaten as “justice for Trayvon” is a horrific thing to happen, but I do not view it as a switch in “oppressor vs. oppressed” roles. Good because I don’t recall anyone here myself included saying it was. I view at as an oppressed group lashing out (in a violent and criminal way) against a system that will not take a white man into custody even after he has admitted to following and shooting a defenseless black teenager in cold blood. I do not think black people are incapable of doing racially-motivated violence to white people, in… Read more »
Danny, You make some great points, but it’s not going to be worth it. Look at this statement she makes: ” I do not think black people are incapable of doing racially-motivated violence to white people, in the example you cited specifically, I see it as a symptom of a society that is fundamentally racist against black people” There is no way to read this statement that is not dehumanizing to black people. No matter what the argument boils down to the idea that black people are incapable of making individual choices. This is very convenient for people who think… Read more »
Hi Mike L, Firstly, I can read, so I would appreciate if you would not refer to me as “she” and speak over my head. I was under the impression that I was participating in a conversation. There’s absolutely no need to assume I am unreasonable human being until I have proven myself otherwise. Secondly, if my phrasing could be seen as dehumanizing the black community, which was absolutely not my intention, I apologize. As a white person, I still have a lot of navigating and renegotiating to do when it comes to the way I think about race. I… Read more »
Marianne Cassidy, I didn’t address you because you and I are never going to agree. I’m not really sure it’s worth discussing anything with you as a result. I’ve heard all your arguments before (I recognize them as a combination of those made by Ethnic/Gender/Area Studies professors), and they’re just flat out wrong. The problem is that the vast majority are built on un-provable tautologies, so if you already accept the arguments, it’s too late for you. At the end of the day our difference of opinion will always be some variation of the following: I believe that the current… Read more »
“So if you – the oppressed – hurt someone’s feelings, you’re just like the oppressor, right? Wrong. Oppression is not about hurt feelings.” Huh? Of course its about hurt feelings! Its always about hurt feelings. I hate this bullshit. Feminism is about hurt feelings. Civil rights is about hurt feelings. Men’s rights is about hurt feelings. Islam is about hurt feelings. ITS ALL HURT FEELINGS. Insecurities, fears and hurt feelings. This is the reason its hard to argue with people about these issues. You aren’t arguing with reasons. You are arguing with deep insecurities, fears and hurt feelings. Instead we… Read more »
Apart from Islam (which I know very little about, but as far as I know, it’s a religion and not an equality movement so kind of seems like the odd one out on that list) all the movements you cited are not based on hurt feelings. They are based on a particular group of people wanting what they perceive as the same rights and opportunities afforded to other demographics. Of course, hurt feelings come into play and people get very emotional and impassioned about causes they strongly believe in. But hurt feelings, in and of themselves, are not oppression. They… Read more »
“White people cannot be victims of racism. Sorry, they just can’t. Racism, as Joanna correctly states below, is the act of systematically oppressing people based upon race. White people can experience prejudice or stereotyping based on the colour of their skin, but it’s not the same (or anywhere near as severe) as racism because racism is active oppression.” Of course, they can. It’s almost unbelievable that you think that they can’t be. To state that white people cannot be victims of racism is actually a racist statement. I’ll give you some examples to help you out. What about the systematically… Read more »
I am Irish. I have a detailed knowledge of my own history, and yes, we were historically oppressed, but that was white men at the hands of white men and I don’t really see how it can be construed as racially motivated discrimination, since we’re all Caucasian. Also, the residue of that oppression has been all but erased. If anything, being Irish benefits me greatly when I go abroad. I have encountered a incidents of prejudice that made me uncomfortable, but no door has ever been closed to me because of my nationality. I know nothing about the farmer minority… Read more »
I am Irish. I have a detailed knowledge of my own history, and yes, we were historically oppressed, but that was white men at the hands of white men and I don’t really see how it can be construed as racially motivated discrimination, since we’re all Caucasian. you hold to the victorianesque notions of phenotype as race. but thats not how people saw themselves in the past. the fact that the neighbouring group sortof looked like you didnt mean anything, didnt mean you had anything in common with them. they were from a different stock, who had a different way… Read more »
Obviously “white” people can experience extreme forms of racism at the hands of other “white” people. I’d say the Nazi genocide campaigns against Poles and Russians would be a great example. (Unless all of a sudden Eastern Europeans are not white?) It would be odd to label Jewish people as white and also say that no white people have ever faced racism.
At the very least, I think you’d have to admit that some people we might label as “white” today haven’t always had white privilege relative to “other whites.”
Wellokaythen, Obviously “white” people can experience extreme forms of racism at the hands of other “white” people. I think you really need to go look up the definition of racism… Anyways, anti-Semitism is not the same as racism. I’m Jewish, and I’ve lived with anti-Semitism all my life — they’re not the same. Moreover, not all Jews are White; just look at a picture of Drake or Sammy Davis Jr. I agree that people today called White didn’t always have clear-cut White privilege, but that doesn’t change the reality that groups like the Irish, White Jews, and Italians weren’t oppressed… Read more »
Anti-Semitism CAN be a form of a racism. If someone is the target of genocide based on ideas about their genes, or an idea that they are biologically inferior or unclean or because their existence is thought to “threaten the purity of the master race,” then I would call that racism. Nazi ideology did not just think of Jewish people as the wrong religion or wrong nationality or wrong ethnic group. The Nazis treated Jews as a kind of racial enemy. I’d call that racism. Of course being Jewish doesn’t imply being “white.” But, Jewish people have been treated as… Read more »
P.S. I’m guessing I’m one of those “random people” in this case? If so, I’d like to know how I go about becoming a non-random person. I’m also trying to figure out what my ideology is. Perhaps someone else can tell me what my ideological motivations are?
Anti-Semitism CAN be a form of a racism. No, it isn’t. Please stop saying this because it is incredibly offensive. It’s not only offensive to me, but offensive to Jews of Color too who have to face both racism and anti-Semitism. Please understand: anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism and racism is racism. They are distinctly different forms of oppression. I am really uncomfortable having to repeat myself about something which I not only have knowledge in, but having actually lived through. The distinction between a racial slur and an ethnic slur seems pretty vague in a lot of cases. Really? Because as… Read more »
I admit I still don’t understand. The Nazi view of Jewish people was not a form of racism? Even when the Nazis referred to Jews as a “racial enemy”? When they killed people just for having Jewish ancestors, even people who were patriotic German citizens? I have been under the assumption that when someone labels someone else an inferior race that is an example of racism. I feel comfortable saying that racially-defined genocide is an act of racism. Were the Nazis not actually racist even though they said they were? Again, I’m not saying ALL anti-Semitism is racism, but there… Read more »
I admit I still don’t understand. The Nazi view of Jewish people was not a form of racism? Bingo! It’s anti-Semitism. Again, I’m not saying ALL anti-Semitism is racism, but there is at least one example of a clear overlap. I am also not saying that Jews actually WERE a separate race, just that the Nazis viewed them that way. That seems like a textbook definition of racism to me. No, there really isn’t. Because you’re looking at Jews as belonging all to one race — but they don’t. They really don’t. It’s textbook anti-Semitism, but not textbook racism. I… Read more »
I agree with you about systemic racism, but I don’t agree with the argument that it is impossible to be racist against white people or people in power or whatever. I get the sociological definition of racism that you are citing, however, sociologists are not the arbiters of what words mean in the English language. Racism means hostility or dislike of someone solely because of their race; that’s the commonly understood meaning so I think you are fighting an uphill battle.
So my mother, who is white and works at a place where, by what I’ve heard from her descriptions, ass many as 80% of the people there are black, and has been passed up for better jobs and certain opportunities just because she’s white–and has been TOLD this to her face, so she doesn’t have to guess– and has put up with stuff that would have gotten her fired years ago if she did herself, is not a victim of racism? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Saying you can’t be racist against whites is a cop-out to allow people to… Read more »
One other thing I forgot to mention, but felt needs mentioning here. I’m not trying to minimize the effects of “white racism.” It’s very real and can be very destructive. But it in no way means no one else can hate whites just due to their skin color either. I have no idea why people can’t figure this out. I suspect people can but won’t admit it because it doesn’t support their own beliefs.
Personally, I think part of the problem is the way that the term ‘racism’ can take on so many different meanings. There’s overarching institutional racism and individual racism. And then there’s something like heteronormativity, only with white people…white-normativity, or something. i.e. when the stereotypical ‘white’ way of living is considered the norm and deviating from that is considered deviant. Which, even the term ‘white’ is problematic, really. So yeah, I think part of the issue is that we’re discussing rather intricate and nuanced social and cultural norms with a limited language.
“because when you’re part of a group that historically has the power, and you’re prejudiced against a group that historically has been oppressed, those prejudices can be exponentially more damaging if they’re not faced and dealt with.” The glaring problem I see with what you said is your use of the word “historically.” For instance, just because women were “historically” oppressed (a point which I contend but we’ll leave that for another day) does not in any way shape or form mean that they are currently oppressed. And if we are going to deal with reality, we ought to be… Read more »
I know right?
On one hand men can’t mention the draft in regards to male disposability but its okay for women to still talk about how their grandmothers where the first generation of women in their families to be able to vote.
Seemed to me that there were 2 different meanings of racism at play in the discussion Marianne was having with everyone. 1. Racism as any prejudice or discrimination or bigotry based on race. Micro-aggressions. 2. Racism as any prejudice or discrimination or bigotry based on one race’s inherent superiority over others backed by efforts to support that notion. Systemic racism. I believe Whites in America can suffer #1, but not #2. Calling me a cracker may hurt my feelings, but it doesn’t contribute to my overall oppression in society because White people are not oppressed in society based on their… Read more »
Seemed to me that there were 2 different meanings of racism at play in the discussion Marianne was having with everyone. 1. Racism as any prejudice or discrimination or bigotry based on race. Micro-aggressions. 2. Racism as any prejudice or discrimination or bigotry based on one race’s inherent superiority over others backed by efforts to support that notion. Systemic racism. I believe Whites in America can suffer #1, but not #2. Calling me a cracker may hurt my feelings, but it doesn’t contribute to my overall oppression in society because White people are not oppressed in society based on their… Read more »
As a college-level instructor who works with those colleagues I can tell you that passing a college 101 class on race, class, and gender is NOT necessarily a good basis for learning any particular “truth” about oppression. It would be great if that were the case, but indoctrination into a particular ideology is not quite the same thing as developing critical faculties based on objective truth. (Many of the people teaching about oppression will also say that there’s no such thing as objective truth, which is another big challenge to using “the truth” to fight racism.) In response to an… Read more »
Wellokaythen, I think a basic understanding of terms like White privilege, racism, oppression, hegemony, micro-aggression, fallacious flip, empowerment does not imply disenfranchisement, and the “I have Black friends” defense are important if one wants to be able to have an educated, nuanced, and productive discussion of racism. Otherwise, it inevitably devolves into either colorblindness (everything would be great if we just forget about race!) or more racism (PoC are making things up). You yourself have often stumbled over these issues — and it’s sad to see so many doing so when generations of anti-racists, activists, advocates, writers, thinkers, artists, and… Read more »
I appreciate your empathy for what looks like my “stumbling.” My perspective is that the path I am being asked to follow is full of holes, so I can see how my stepping carefully and calling attention to the quicksand looks like stumbling. (Perhaps what I see as refusing to drink the Kool-Aid may look like choking, or perhaps some sort of institutionalized beverage intolerance.) As far as I can tell, I am quite familiar with terms such as “white privilege,” and I do think it accurately describes some particular phenomena. I disagree with its use in some cases, and… Read more »
My perspective is that the path I am being asked to follow is full of holes, so I can see how my stepping carefully and calling attention to the quicksand looks like stumbling. You see holes because you refuse to acknowledge certain parts of reality that contradict your own beliefs, but which represent the realities of so many Americans throughout our history, and today. I can tell because you said this: Perhaps I’m naïve, but I keep thinking maybe we could at least try to practice that for once and see what happens. Or, at least create some relatively colorblind… Read more »
Zek, this is an articulate and informative comment, thank you! Your distinction re: micro-aggressions and systemic racisms is very useful.
In agreement with Danny, I didn’t bring up white privilege or the “But I have black friends!” fallacy because I took for granted that everyone participating in this discussion are aware that these things exist.
I don’t think Racism can ever be minimized, for one thing we are all afflicted with the disease of being partial. It’s going to effect us one way or another, we can’t help it. I have a hard time being around people who have disabilities, especially mental ones. Eventually I was thrust into talking to people with cerebral palsy at my church as well as a woman who is legally blind in one eye. I also found the chicks who threw gang signs and Ms. Deschanel using thuglife as kind of sad. I pity them because of their ignorance. Thuglife… Read more »
Yeah, you’re making such great points, Spidaman. Fact is, what’s cute about the thug life? What’s cute about prison, about the fear of someone pulling everything you have out from under you due to the fact that you can’t build a steady future with a Roth IRA and a college fund for your kids. Sure it happens that a highly successful member of a gang builds a different future fore his/her kids, but if you gave that person the choice of whether they’d want to be out of their neighborhood, raising their kids in a safe public school system, they’d… Read more »
You seem like a very open minded person, Joanna and its always good to see people realize that the social constructs are created out of thin air and can easily be deconstructed, but it is not as for people to do as I would hope. You have it right, if people have the chance to do better they will. People steal to eat, because they don’t have the means to buy the food. People steal to sell their stolen goods for money, once again because they don’t have the means. The term to get out of the hood, is meaning… Read more »
I’m probably gonna get ripped to shreds for saying this, but I think people have the right to racist. I think acting out on that racism can be immoral, but if you are targetting the way people think, I think you are overstepping your authority.
Sure, anyone has every right to be racist and even to say racist shit. But everyone else has the right to tell that person that they’re wrong, that they’re a bigot, and that they’re damaging society and hurting people.
I’d never legislate against free speech or against people’s thoughts.
But just because an individual has the *right* to be any way he/she wants, doesn’t mean that they’re not narcissistic, evil jerks who enjoy oppressing people.
And, the good news is, I have the right to tell them that!
“Sure, anyone has every right to be racist and even to say racist shit. But everyone else has the right to tell that person that they’re wrong, that they’re a bigot, and that they’re damaging society and hurting people.” While I agree with you and will defend our freedom of speech to the death, I think that an important but overlooked issue is one of degree. Particularly that if for example someone prefers dating within their own race, they are not wrong, or a bigot, or damaging society and hurting people. I believe the same goes for any number of… Read more »
The question is, would you rather consolidate being brought up in a racist society and “accept” what judgement by race. or would you rather fight for something better?