Julie Gillis opens the question up about what’s funny when, how and why.
I like comedy. I like performing it, reading it, watching it (though curiously, I’m not all that good at writing it). Humor is a part of the human experience and it can be so, so good. It can also go so, so wrong.
While there are many sites to learn and read about what comedy is, like this wiki which lists everything from satire to scatology, I see humor as serving several purposes in the life of a human being.
1) Deflecting pain: We see painful horrible things around us all the time. From breakups to war, from falling down to dying, from theft to assault it’s out there and we experience it or see it happening to those we love. Humor can be used as a way to protect ourselves (when it happens to us) from the initial pain. It can also be used as a totem of sorts….”If I joke about this and claim to have superior knowledge or reactions to this bad thing, it won’t happen to me.” Often called Gallow’s Humor, we use this when we’ve been through something terrible. If I, as a victim of something, make a joke about it, I’m owning the situation. We may as outsiders also joke about ghastly things to help avoid them happening, or to teach our children on yet another level, about how to help stop these things in the future.
2) Group bonding/ostracism: We are group creatures and much as gossip can create bonds between group members against non group members (or start the process of un-group-membering someone) so to can jokes about “the other.” In the best of circumstances, you’ll have Accounting list their many jokes about the idiocy of the Marketing team and vice versa. At worst, you have racist, sexist, phobic jokes designed to reaffirm one groups (superior in their minds) choices over that “other” group. Often these types of jokes are then reclaimed by the “other’ed” group so that Gay people can tell F#gg#t jokes, but no one else can.
3) Exaggeration, hyperbole, satire (bitter or otherwise): Jokes and stories designed to highlight absurdity, create an over the top parallel to something actually happening, or pointing out truth to power in such a way that the humor is carefully wielded tool of politic. Often you’ll see jokes that are so over the top, they are clearly not meant to be serious.
4) Physical comedy: Face it folks, from time immemorial we’ve laughed at people falling down. Fair? I don’t know. I think this points to the violence inherent in the human animal. We are violent creatures and we laugh at each other’s pain for all the reasons listed above-to understand it, to avoid it, to isolate which group we are in, to push back against greater violence or political power.
5) Telling stories about “what we know is true”/”What we want to change”: Many comedians will start a piece with “Fellas/Ladies, don’t you know that this thing always happens…..” and the audience responds with “Yes! We do agree that women/men are just like this.” Often, that’s how it’s left. A humor piece cementing stereotypes. Sometimes they’ll do a little tilt of that platform and reverse the story, showing off how humanity is actually much more complex than stereotypes.
6) Causing pain: This is actually a subset of all of the above. Using a joke to ostracize, belittle, put down or other someone is a way of using humor as a weapon. “Can’t you take a joke?” is a secondary level of that belittlement, insisting that the insulted person play into their own belittlement by “taking it.”
Oddly, I think the same actual words in a joke, can be told in ways/contexts that build up the person, or tear them down. It’s all in the telling.
Humor is a way we tell stories about the world. As such, there are vast differences in how we make humor happen-men and women may tell those joke and hear those jokes differently, other countries have different perspectives on humor.
So then some important questions are….when does humor go too far? When is the situation right or wrong for humor to be a part of the conversations? How far away from a traumatic event does one need to be before witnessing humor is no longer triggering? How do we tell the jokes in a way that actually highlights what’s WRONG with the situation, not in a way that makes light of things. How do we push back against belittling jokes? How does conflict come out of humor?
There are other questions. I’d welcome your discussion in the threads.
Here are some videos using humor to talk about really difficult topics. For the record, I’m aware that the Wanda Sykes piece has a moment on female assault and also a moment on (stereotypical) male/female relations, but the humor is structured in a fantastic way, juxtaposing charm and bitterness, issues of bodily autonomy and what parts are of value, etc. FYI, I’m in no way discounting male survivors of assault. If you’ve seen any vids showing similar types of humor pointing out similar themes but for men, please link.
The Chris Rock piece deals with issues of humor and words. Who gets to use words when? Warning: Rock uses very course language in regards to race and sexuality that people may find offensive.
Controversial? Thought Provoking? Yep.
Finally, I’d ask us all, for I know we are focused on civil rights, social justice, and making the world a more decent place here at GMP: Can we engage in social justice work with humor? What kind? Can we use context to allow for triggering words? How do we manage different senses of humor and reactions to such difficult things? Or is the work just too serious to take the risk?
Let’s discuss.
Photo: Vince Bucci/AP


Two Paedophiles walk into a bar.
One says I feel like a child.
The other one rapes him!
Discuss.
I think humour is contextual, and requires an understanding between the humorist and the audience. I think comedy can be technical. It’s about finding patterns. It’s about delivery. Timing. Inflection. Shared understanding. A show like “Curb Your Enthusiasm” is technically brilliant comedy, because of how every episode incorporates a callback, and character development is central to where the jokes come from. You put those characters in a room and give them any object and it will be funny. I also wrote a response piece recently that addresses satire, which I think can be a very powerful tool. So here I… Read more »
I think joking about someone dying or being maimed is usually pretty tasteless. Especially when you see those same jokes over and over and over. and. over.
Whenever I see a man get killed by a woman, or castrated, or maimed in revenge for something as trivial as breaking up with her, I fully expect women to make cruel jokes about it, because every single time it happens, they do.
What do you think that says about women?
When I was a kid (and a pretty angry kid at that) I wanted to buy a t-shirt that had a picture of a woman kicking a guy’s genitals. It was my mother who explained to me why that wasn’t funny at all. She’s the one who said something along the lines of – if you’d seen the same thing with a man kicking a woman it wouldn’t be funny. Violence isn’t funny. My mother is a woman, and she didn’t think it was funny. I’m a woman and I don’t think it’s funny. The cultural and societal norms that… Read more »
You’re right that not all women joke about violence against men. But to give you an example, when I went and checked out that article about that poor man in Poland whose ex girlfriend ripped out all of his teeth because he broke up with her, the comments from the women were unanimously congratulating her and ridiculing him. And this is far from an isolated case. I see women on huffpo joke about and condone violence against men. I see women on facebook joke about and justify violence against men. I see women I work with joking about violence towards… Read more »
I’ve seen all kinds of nasty humor about women from men on the internet. Check out Reddit for starters. There are many others and if you’d like to trade links, we can do that off line. I’ve seen nasty humor about men from women on the internet. I’ve seen nasty racist humor on the internet. I’ve seen nasty homophobic humor on the internet. I’ve seen jokes about retarded kids.
I say “jokes” and “humor” because really all that is is nastiness cloaked in a tacky outfit.
Exactly.
Yeah, gotta disagree with you too Jimmy. There are tons and tons of jokes about men beating up women, racist jokes, etc. Check out all of Youtube, for instance. Or comments around Chris Brown.
As the others have said the “We can but you can’t” mentality runs in multiple directions.
I think the difference is a matter of what hits home with people and out experiences with being able to talk about what hits home.
Trust that’s a multi-car pile up of on the Instersectionality Highway if I ever saw one.
I would like to respond to the first part of your comment Jimmy, the idea that “making jokes over someone dying or being maimed is usually pretty tasteless.” I personally hate humor of *other people* being maimed or killed. But — here’s a great example of humor used wonderfully. We had a post on GMP recently about a guy who had been blinded in a fight with some guys in an alley. “Maimed” as it were. And *he* got up and did a performance where he talked about his blindness. He said he was doing a reading, but since he… Read more »
There are plenty of types of jokes that do nothing for me, but that’s a far cry of saying that they’re wrong or should be discouraged. The only thing I actually find offensive is when humor is chained to a “social justice” purpose, i.e., you can’t tell jokes about this unless it highlights a societal wrong that needs correcting and respects the victims, etc. etc. The Norman Solomon book “The Trouble With Dilbert” is a perfect illustration of this sort of anti-humor.
The best thing for people to remember, is that if something crosses the line for them, they have the right to just shut it off. Of course, people ignore this now because we have the “internet” where people go to voice their opinions if they found something that just rubbed them the wrong way. It kind of works out, too, because not many things out there that are truly offensive over being funny are going to gain any kind of hugely popular foothold. It’s just not in any creator’s best interest to make something that’s just plain offensive. Not saying… Read more »
Personally, I’ve never felt that humor can go “too far.”
I do, however, believe that a great deal of people are too sensitive.
Remember, if it’s patently false, why are you offended by it?
The funniest things that make me guffaw are edgy, unexpected, and sometimes so offensive they’re ridiculous….and perhaps that’s the point….Are we always so rigid that we can’t laugh at something we think is beyond reproach? Why are the sacred cows so sacred? I love TMZ (on TV), Kathy Griffin, Chelsea Handler, and George Carlin…they help me see things in a different light…and don’t we all need a little more laughter and lightness in our lives? My ex said he hated sex jokes….it turns out he had a lot of hang-ups (surprise surprise…many of them had to do with sex)….I eventually… Read more »
I agree on TMZ – the TV version. It’s somehow amazingly funny for ALL the wrong reasons. Sometimes things are SO horrible, we almost have to make light of them. It feels like human nature. It’s a way of explaining things to ourselves and taking awful things out of the “untouchable” category – which is terrible – and putting them into the realm of the comprehensible. Does that make sense? It won’t work for everyone, but it works for most people. And YES we should keep questioning what’s funny and what’s not. If you want to be constantly challenged on… Read more »
Remember William Hung of American Idol fame? In the audition round, he performed a painfully bad version of Ricky Martin’s “She Bangs”, and became famous for how painfully bad it was. Rather than debate whether that was funny or not (I vote “yes”), I raise the example of him and countless others just like him to make the point that very few people can sing at a Ricky Martin or above level, but we don’t usually go around saying some songs are just off limits because so many people perform them badly. Comedy is art, or at the very least… Read more »
Marcus – I agree with you 99% (Which is higher than our usual average of 75% agreement, haha.)
Don’t you feel that to some degree comedy is subjective though?
We discussed something earlier on the phone, you didn’t think something was funny enough to merit it’s fumbles, but I thought it was. So what do you do? How do people reach a consensus?
My feeling is that we cannot, we can simply attempt to consider the hearts and intentions behind something intended to be funny, and critique with compassion and with the intent to educate rather than attack or shame.
Comedy is definitely subjective. No disagreement there. I’m not sure I get the consensus thing, because I never think of that as a goal or purpose of comedy (or any art). My intended point was more to answer Julie’s question, “When does humor go to far?” with: when it’s done badly, but that doesn’t mean it’s because the subject being joked about should be off limits. I don’t believe a person is flawed if they find a particular subject off limits to jokes *for themselves*. Most of us have subjects like that that just hit too close to home. What… Read more »
I will say that as a group, GMP commenters are among the most sensitive I’ve ever seen about jokes, compared to any other online community I’ve been a part of. I’m including myself in that reduced capacity to think some things are funny if they’re published here compared to somewhere else, but that comes, I think, from being conditioned to a kind of mindset that says gender is never funny. I don’t particularly like that mindset, but I get sucked in, too. I wonder if this is the result of some sense of finally being able to say something is… Read more »
Are black people sensitive for showing dislike for ni****** jokes? Are women sensitive for disliking misogyny jokes? Why are people surprised some men dislike misandrist jokes on a site that talks about male issues, where some of those men are victims of violence for instance so the jokes are less humorous as it’s a reality for them. Plenty of people laughed at the fact you could have sex with a hooker in GTA, then beat her to death and take your money back. Plenty of people laughed at the 9/11 towers falling. Plenty of people laugh when islamic people suffer… Read more »
I find that Louis CK can make ANY topic funny — rape, racism, body shame, etc. It’s amazing how he does it. But I think what happens is you FIRMLY know where he stands on the subject no matter what he says. You know he’s a good guy. If Dane Cook made the same jokes, they wouldn’t work at all.
Is Sexual Harassment of men funny?
Is Sexual Harassment is School Funny?
Kyle Erby – Comedian may be able to get a few laughs, from some of the hardest to please.
It’s worth looking at his Youtube collection!
I think that humor is fine in places where it invites people in and moves the conversation forward. So, for example, in the Wanda Sykes video, what she is really saying is “Women are not defined by their sexual parts.” That’s an awesome thing to have a conversation about. In Chris Rock’s his main point is “take everything that is said in context.” To me, that too is worth discussing. And in both cases, they are inviting people into the conversation. I believe that what both of them are doing is a form of social justice, and I, personally think… Read more »
Rock also does something REALLY interesting — he engages in a huge criticism of himself and other comedians in the past. That you have to be careful whom you offend because of their spending dollars. He KNOWS he’s being offensive in ways to the LGBT community in saying F*****, and he’s making fun of the reaction of saying, “I have gay friends!” which is similar to Derbyshire’s “You have to have some black friends so you can say, ‘I have black friends'” … But then he goes on to say, “Thanks for the money!” which takes the piss out of… Read more »
Can we engage in social justice work with humor? I think its possible but its a tight rope walk at best. Due to different people and different groups of people having different experiences this answer is going to vary drastically. How do we manage different senses of humor and reactions to such difficult things? So far the best I can think of is to simply be mindful of what humor works with certain people and what doesn’t work with others. The problem with even that is those telling the jokes and stories often interpret that “as long as I don’t… Read more »
I love that Mencia quote. And I think humor requires intelligence or skill, back to Media Hounds “are they laughing with me (skill and intelligence in the joke, the context, the timing) or at the group we are pointing at (more of an attack then a carefully crafted joke). But even then….attempts at good jokes can fail and horribly.
The analysis of comedy is not possible in this context! In that, it’s similar to Pornography – It defies definition “But, You Know It When You See it”! I heard Sir Billy Connelly ( The Big Yin ) talk about comedy – which was funny as he could not explain Comedy himself and even why people found him funny. Dame Maggie Smith is the same – an expert in comic timing and she just does not know how she does it! It all boiled down to a simple position “Laughing with – Or – Laughing at”. If people laugh with… Read more »
Um…yeah, I never found watching people get hurt to be particularly funny. At all. I try to stay away from people who do.
That’s why I put in a photo of the Three Stooges…
How about America’s Funniest Home videos? All the dads who get baseball bats to the nuts at the hands of a 3 year old?
I’m not saying anyone *should* find these things funny, I’m just curious where individuals draw the line.
I grew up watching America’s Funniest Home videos as a little boy. I never laughed when someone got hit in the nuts with a baseball bat. My mom laughed. My sisters laughed. I never laughed. In fact I remember feeling hurt and angry that they would laugh about something that I knew hurt so much.
I think the question is why *you* find that funny.
The Three Stooges were engaging in patently fake violence for comedic purposes, the people on America’s funniest home videos are actually getting hurt, and I will not watch it for exactly that reason.