Mark Radcliffe wonders what the role of the witness is: to stop a crime or to record it?
When you witness something bad happening near you, what do you do?
Get out your video camera?
Or actually try to stop it?
When a 12 yr-old girl was being beaten by a group of her “friends” in Providence, RI a man living next door chose the former, choosing merely to quietly capture it on camera from next door and post it on YouTube rather than get involved.
Holly Gingerella, the mother of the beaten girl, was deeply upset about his passivity, unsurprisingly.
While I can’t imagine what it would be like to witness something like this, I’d like to believe if I were in that situation I’d do more than just roll tape. I’ve pulled teens off of each other when I was a teacher years ago, but perhaps this neighbor was afraid of whether the girls may harm him.
Still, “bad things happen when good people look the other way,” as the saying goes, and while capturing it on film will help things in the courts and certainly can’t be called looking the other way, I still think it’s incumbent upon us as good citizens—and good neighbors (since this was happening in his neighbors’ yard—to actually take action. It seems if it was simply 12 yr-old girls, and the videographer a grown man, that he at least had the advantage of size and strength if not numbers. A stern command to “stop” from the intimidating voice of an adult or a threat that “the cops are on their way” might have at least caused them to run off.
But when your first reaction upon seeing someone being hurt is to whip out your phone rather than run over to intervene, I think we’ve got a problem. Is technology turning us into a society of passive accomplices who no longer know how to take action?
Maybe the law doesn’t require us to get involved. But doesn’t our conscience?
Photo courtesy of tylerkaraszewsk
Jake DiMare says: April 4, 2012 at 4:20 pm That’s the funny thing about this thread. All the people who are arguing against showing the victim in this story some humanity are turning this into a gender issue ———————————————————- It is only fair for a male casual bystander in USA to consider possible consequences against his own person before getting involved into a fight of 4 violent girls, who are only 12 years old. It’s a ‘gender issue’, as this incident happened in USA, where all and everything which happens between males and females is seen as a ‘gender issue’… Read more »
umm hello….he has a camera to prove he would only b trying to help….as he was recording he could still yell stop or whatever and that he was calling the police so then the girls wouldnt be able to make any false accusations..you people r idiots that say he should of stayed out of it…
With all due respect to the concerned parents out there, it’s easy to say call the police, but hard to say get directly involved. Imagine that one of your children was not in the position of the victim but was in the position of a witness. Do you still want every witness to get involved in a violent altercation? Your son sees other boys fighting. Are you really teaching him to dive in there and try to put a stop to it? Your son sees a drug deal go down on a street corner. Do you want him to go… Read more »
What does it say about our society that he would just stand there and film it…. Well, what does it say about our society that the guy with the cell phone is the focus of the attention? What does it say that the headline on the CNN story is about the bystander, when he’s only a small part of the text of the story? This is a horrible story. His filming the assault is not actually the most horrible part of the story. It’s the part that’s been chosen as the headline of the story, and the focus of the… Read more »
I hadn’t realised it happened on private property, all the more reason he couldn’t intervene.
Throwing another one of those gender counterfactual spins here:
If it was a woman who filmed it instead of a man, would we have the same expectation of the witness to get involved? Especially to get in there and break up the fight? Somehow I doubt it.
That’s the funny thing about this thread. All the people who are arguing against showing the victim in this story some humanity are turning this into a gender issue. Not once has anyone asked me whether or not it matters whether the victim is a guy or the perpetrators are guys. This whole argument is just stupid. If you don’t think it’s a good idea to help the victim of a crime in progress because you are scared fine. Just say ‘I’m scared’ and hope that if you are ever the victim someday there are people braver than you around.… Read more »
Maybe Men aren’t as use to calling the police for help as women are, especially considering that the assailants were young girls. In the end, this guy was probably a coward for not getting involved, a moron for not calling the cops and a sadist for up loading the ordeal on to YouTube which is in fact a crime. With all that said, I think you’re underestimating the fear men have of being labeled a pedophile. personally I wouldn’t have restrained any of the attackers nor would I have made myself a human shield for the victim and I use… Read more »
This was in reply to my earlier message, so I’ll respond by trying to speak only for myself. “All the people who are arguing against showing the victim in this story some humanity are turning this into a gender issue.” This sentence seems to imply that the people asking about gender have no sympathy for the victim. That’s a pretty big leap, to my mind. I don’t know if I would have physically intervened, but I like to think there are a lot of options besides getting physical, doing nothing, or filming the whole thing. Giving good explanations for not… Read more »
As I say below, what if your child was the bystander? Would you still be so eager for the bystander to get involved?
The guy with the cell phone has a mother….
i WOULD expect a woman to “get in there and break up the fight”. The woman is an ADULT and those are KIDS fighting. I have a feeling that any adult (man or woman) showing up and yelling at them that they’ve been caught, that the police are on the way, and that their parents will be notified, is enough to break up the fight. Physical intervention is prob not needed, just the authority of being an adult and the WILL to intervene when another human being’s life is at stake.
It sounds like there are a lot of people (especially women) on GMP who feel that witnesses should physically intervene if necessary in violent situations. Well as someone who HAS physically intervened about half a dozen times I can say I’m still waiting for any female help. Please feel free to jump right in. The male help hasn’t been all that stellar either but at least I’ve gotten some interest. How about getting some experience behind you before you start condemning anyone else. Try doing what my wife did. Physically interposing yourself between an abusive husband and his wife when… Read more »
I note also lots of comments about the behaviour of the man who filmed the assault, what about the thugs beating up the girl…don’t they deserve greater criticism for actually conducting the attack?
They do deserve greater criticism, of course. No one is saying they shouldn’t, but people who want to harm are going to harm unless they have some external force that stops them or scares them, so the “thugs” are completely irrelevant in this situation. We are talking about a man who merely recorded a girl getting beat up and posted it up on Youtube where she could face humiliation from an entire world because the internet isn’t always kind to victims. I, too, cannot believe some of the cowardly comments coming from the people of this article. I’m not going… Read more »
” but people who want to harm are going to harm unless they have some external force that stops them or scares them, so the “thugs” are completely irrelevant in this situation.” And what’s to say the grown man intervening would act as an external force to stop or scare them, rather than as another target on which to cause harm? “We are talking about a man who merely recorded a girl getting beat up ” Not a kid, but a “girl” specifically. If it was a boy, this man’s behaviour would have been more acceptable? “put themselves before others… Read more »
of course it wouldn’t have been more acceptable. it’s not about the fact that man filming was a “man” and the group of attackers were “girls”. to me, at least, it’s about the person filming being an adult and the attackers being kids. if he had run over yelling at the kids and telling them to “get off!” without laying a hand on any of them, while on his cell phone talking to the 911 operator or video taping them with his phone – he would have had 1) evidence 2) spared the girl further beating. if it was an… Read more »
The justice system would have taken care of those thugs, but at the time of beating…that girl needed help; she needed justice done ASAP. So the criticism lies with the witness. That witness/videographer had the ability to intervene and to stop it, or at the very least expressed his disapproval. And there was no indication that he would have put himself in harm’s way. He did neither; he failed that girl and he failed society. If he were my father, I would be ashamed.
There’s nothing interesting about the behavior of the girls. They were clearly in the wrong. What’s to discuss?
The videographer should be ashamed. A grown man who could have had daughters that age, and he didn’t have the instinct to go over to stop the beating…what an idiot. I have nothing else to say.
“Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.” ~ Haile Selassie
What kind of world do you live in!? People are fighting and you guys are afraid of being accused? I truly hope your lack of action wont set an example. Don’t expect others to help you while bleeding on the street.
Wake up people
One instance where I intervened in public was when a gang of six young women were threatening and abusing some tourists, it seems the thugs believed the tourists had taken their photo and were threatening harm to them if they did not surrender their camera. Lines of women, and men, walked by, ignoring the altercation that was conducted at screaming pitch. I was waiting for a colleague for a meeting and this argument came in my direction. The tourists looked terrified in the face of the women’s naked aggression. I and one other suited businessman exchanged a glance, folded our… Read more »
“Don’t expect others to help you while bleeding on the street. ”
Believe me I don’t. I damn near lost everything I owned (and I’m not exaggerating) trying to help people I thought were my friends, and when I actually needed the help? I was metaphorically spat on.
So call me bitter, call me paranoid, call me a g/d coward if you want, but I’m through risking my neck for other people.
Fear of false accusations are only a part of the ‘don’t get involved’ theme, folks.
The other part is purely male: We are DONE being the designated protectors and defenders in every altercation. It’s not our job to hurl ourselves into danger for the benefit of women and children any more. Our lives have value too; men are tired of being the disposable element of society.
Correction: SOME men are DONE coming to the aid of those in need.
For those men who see their lives as being worth less than everyone elses, then yes, they are free to reap the benefits of their low self esteem.
You go, bro! Preach it!
trust me, a lot of women get that men don’t want to be protectors anymore. just quit expecting women to be “feminine” and we’ll call it even. thanks. 🙂
This happened to me years back. I was walking home from school through a nice neighbourhood along a busy street and three kids started beating the crap out of me. This was right outside a butcher’s shop with big glass windows (aswell as a bunch of other shops along the road) and with lots of passing traffic. I got offers of help after they’d finished but it was a bit late then. My dad later asked the butcher what he’d seen and why he didn’t do anything and he said that he thought it was just kid’s messing, but also… Read more »
“especially if they realise that the law can’t really touch them”
And what delinquents don’t know this all too well these days?
Then again, if the girls are so totally scary, wouldn’t the guy also be too afraid to film them? I mean, if they would attack him for yelling at them, wouldn’t they attack him for filming them as well? It’s hard to believe the girl bullies would be totally fine if you collected visual evidence of their crime but they’d be mad at you if you tried to discourage them in any way. They’d be mad at both, wouldn’t they? The fear of retaliation argument doesn’t hold water to my mind if that’s the explanation for not getting involved in… Read more »
At least if its on film then he can prove he didn’t assault them, or that they attempted to assault him. I know at least one person who isn’t currently facing proceedings due to this fact.
You are mixing the two scenario’s up. In the one you replied to, a shopkeeper didn’t get involved due to the fear of retaliation against his business. In the second, the man didn’t get involved due to retaliation with the use of false accusations of sexual misconduct. In nether case was it said a physical beatdown was the cause of fear. But I suppose arguing that strawman is easier than debating the points,
Men being called on to be protectors is gone along with the 20th century. Men, simply because of their sex, face false accusations, public shaming, imprisonment and long-term loss of income if they intervene in something like what this article describes. When men are deliberately discouraged, by women, from pursuing employment that puts them in contact with children, the idea that a man would deal with girls who are strangers to him is naive to say the least. it is easy to say you would intervene when you don’t understand what you can lose from what you think is a… Read more »
I’m not sure its quite true that he was expected to intervene just because he was male. I think if a woman had been there and shot that footage (and then put it up on youtube??) there would have been questions raised as to why she didn’t do anything.
The rest is sadly somewhat true though.
I’m not sure about that. As Transhuman says men have been called on to be protectors for a long time. And the sad fact is people (men and women) have come to use that call to their advantage. Male politicians that are all about “helping women” (translation: they have no problem mowing down other men if it will make them popular with women). Women who lie to other guys about being attacked by a man just to get them to attack them in her stead. Even as recently as a year or so ago in a case where a young… Read more »
Did he in fact lose his job? That’s news to me.
It seems that would be a groundless firing and he should be able to sue.
Mark, What if one or more of those teen girls later claimed that while breaking up the fight the adult man ‘touched’ them inappropriately? The man would be arrested and at worst sent away to jail or prison for awhile. Then there are the mammas who might want some of his money….BTW, so what if an adult ordered them to break up? Do you imagine that is some sort of command that all kids will obey? The man was a jerk for not calling 911 immediately. PS: 25% of the street assaults in London are now done by teenage girls… Read more »
Fear! Fear! Fear!
Just say it: I would be afraid to get involved. Stop trying to rationalize your fear and own it.
Have you never heard that “no good deed goes unpunished.”
Then should we all just do no deeds? Or bad deeds? Is that the alternative? Create a world even more messed up than the one currently operating?
Don’t trouble the trouble until it troubles you. Better safe than sorry.
No we just shouldn’t be so quick to call someone a coward with no reason to be afraid when they don’t do some good act.
§ 9-1-27.1 Good Samaritan – Immunity from liability.
No person who voluntarily and gratuitously renders emergency assistance to a person in need thereof including the administration of life saving treatment to those persons suffering from anaphylactic shock shall be liable for civil damages which result from acts or omissions by such persons rendering the emergency care, which may constitute ordinary negligence. This immunity does not apply to acts or omissions constituting gross negligence or willful or wanton conduct.
http://www.cprinstructor.com/RI-GS.htm
That’s relevant to first aid, not relevant to getting involved in a street fight.
Not exclusively first aid, no. It protects anyone (“No person…”) and, it can be argued, puts a responsibility on one to act (“his immunity does not apply to acts or OMISSIONS…”). All Good Samaritan laws in the US stem from the Kitty Genovese case from 1964. A woman was being stabbed to death in New York City and apparently over 37 people heard her screaming for help. No one helped. Feel free to keep discussing the legal technicality or what could happen to one who puts his camera down and tries to help. But what about the natural instinct to… Read more »
“Have the legal realities of society curbed our natural instinct to help our fellow man? Or are we using these legal realities as an excuse / rationale for not caring about one another?” Sadly, it’s probably both. There are a lot of people out there that I presume are paranoid about helping. You’ve seen this in the comments. Now, I don’t doubt some of them have reason to be. There are bad people of all stripes out there, but I personally don’t believe there is an epidemic of false accusations racing through the country like a field on fire. I… Read more »
There are bad people of all stripes out there, but I personally don’t believe there is an epidemic of false accusations racing through the country like a field on fire. I don’t buy it. Its not a matter of there being an epidemic. Its a matter of a given person thinking, “Will I be one that it happens to?” Fact of the matter is that it does happen. (And on a side note I have to say that this sounds like you might be saying that, “since such false accusations don’t meet the bar of what I would call a… Read more »
(And on a side note I have to say that this sounds like you might be saying that, “since such false accusations don’t meet the bar of what I would call a wide spread problem you shouldn’t be too worried about it happening to you.”) And I hear this on both sides Schroedinger’s Rapist/Schrodinger’s False Accuser. Here’s the deal. There are fucked up people in this world. Really, seriously, totally fucked up people. And for the most part, they look like everyone else in the world. Some of them are so clever (male or female, gay or straight) that you’d… Read more »
And its great that you do. Like I say I don’t know if I would or not unless I was actually in such a situation.
But for some reason that doesn’t stop people (as a few comments here are saying) from declaring that people that wouldn’t are just cowards with no legitimate reason to be afraid of stepping in.
I realize that. I’m certainly aware that this situation is sticky and difficult and nasty in all ways.
” This immunity does not apply to acts or omissions constituting gross negligence or willful or wanton conduct.”
I repeat
“wanton conduct.”
Sexual assault allegations are not protected by this clause.
Here we are, in this day and age, trying to get kids to not be passive bystanders when they see other kids being bullied, and people are arguing that this man did the right thing by not intervening, but instead stood by and videotaped the incident! Wow. Just wow. There are numerous ways he could have done something without physically stepping in (if that is a worry), as some have said, including calling 911. I would ask, also, if that had been your daughter, how you would feel if someone had simply watched her being beaten and done nothing. It… Read more »
Men are finally (long overdo) waking up to the reality of how the Criminal Courts (and Family Courts) and society as a whole are biased against adult men. I promise that you and all others will see more and more adult men standing aside and refusing to be chivalrous protector knights.
Is that your dream world, Aharon? Where no one stands up for you? For your children?
Will that prove to society that you’ve been right all along? Will you sit there, arms crossed, and say, “Told ya so. You, as a society, prosecuted some of us falsely and now we won’t help children who are being beaten. You happy?”
Is that your dream for our world?
Nevermind, don’t answer, I need to step away from this conversation, as I’m already crying. I can’t believe how sad this is.
“Is that your dream world, Aharon? Where no one stands up for you? For your children? Will that prove to society that you’ve been right all along? Will you sit there, arms crossed, and say, “Told ya so. You, as a society, prosecuted some of us falsely and now we won’t help children who are being beaten. You happy?” Is that your dream for our world?” Welcome to the matriarchy! How do you like it, so far? And yes this is because our society is becoming a matriarchy. Google – The Garbage Generation – and read. Did you know that… Read more »
So feminism is to blame for men and women deciding not to be good citizens in general? Not an increasingly depersonalized corporate structure in the workplace, cultural norms that reward greed and selfishness and a complete focus on “me” entitlement from soup to nuts? Good to know.
I suppose Feminism is responsible for the corporate model altogether.
Yes, feminism is to blame from preventing men, in situations like these, from being, as you put it, “good citizens”. A woman could freely do the right thing without any having to worry about any repercussions.
And yes it is because of feminism and not some abstract, nebulous “corporate model”.
Good to know! the nebulous corporate model I speak of is that we live in a society that places a huge emphasis on money, greed, wealth, litigation, and individualism to the point of Randian Going Galt. I have no doubt in my mind that the people commenting about taking care of themselves are influenced as much if not more by those cultural mores set into place a century ago. It might surprise you, Neo, that I think women are just as capable of violence as men, all kinds of violence. It might also surprise you to know that I think… Read more »
“the nebulous corporate model I speak of is that we live in a society that places a huge emphasis on money, greed, wealth, litigation, and individualism to the point of Randian Going Galt.” But you’re ignoring the interaction between the current corporate model and the influence feminism had on creating it. You see them as seperate, despite the fact these attributes are all over feminism. A significant degree of the issues feminism revolves around involve the corporate world, money, greed, wealth. The insistance on things like affirmative action to ensure women, regardless of merit, are granted positions within the top… Read more »
I think this is very interesting. Will digest, and respond but might be a bit.
“Not an increasingly depersonalized corporate structure in the workplace, cultural norms that reward greed and selfishness and a complete focus on “me” entitlement from soup to nuts?” Do you not think that feminism has played a very prominent role in making the workplace depersonalised? With the constant threat of sexual harassment and/or suits looming over everyone’s head should they say or do something that offends someone else who may have been passing by, I’d say that very much depersonalizes people. I read a story months back, where a guy got reprimanded for sexual harassment because he gave a friend/co-worker a… Read more »
“Do you not think that feminism has played a very prominent role in making the workplace depersonalised? With the constant threat of sexual harassment and/or suits looming over everyone’s head should they say or do something that offends someone else who may have been passing by, I’d say that very much depersonalizes people.” Sure. And I’d also say that jokes, touches, etc were depersonalizing prior to Politically Correct rules in the workplace. Is the choice “no lawsuits, anything goes, grab ass/racial comments/homophobia?” vs “no smiling, lawsuits a plenty/policing language?” Both seem depersonalizing to me. But the depersonalization I was speaking… Read more »
i don’t consider intervening in this situation as being “chivalrous”, i consider it “responsible” and “decent”. this isn’t like pulling out a girl’s chair at dinner or opening a door for someone – this girl could have been beaten to paralysis or death – intervening could save a human life. if you think that it’s not in your best interest to help another human being in need, that’s fine, but please don’t confuse it with chivalry. ask most women today and they’ll tell you, chivalry died a LONG time ago.
The chivalry inherent in this discussion is the expectation that a man ‘should’ intervene. What happened to ‘his body, his choice’ ? In this age of alleged equality, men no longer bear the burden of protecting women. Chivalry is another word for pedestalisation; women are no more, and no less, valuable than men.
Right thing for the wrong reason I say. As others have said above I don’t blame him one bit for not getting involved in that fight and I think that recording it was probably the next best thing he can do. If he had interfered instead of recording it would the proverbial “he said, she said”. With a recording the attackers don’t have a leg to stand on unless that video is somehow disallowed as evidence (but that shouldn’t be an issue if it happened in public). On the other hand why didn’t he take that video straight to the… Read more »
so… if this little girl ended up paralyzed for life or dead, would you still congratulate your inaction as the right thing to do? way to go.
Why is a man responsible for a stranger, woman or man? The victim is not a friend or relative (as far as I know). What if they are also carrying knives, would you congratulate him on his intervention if he ended up paralysed or dead, or imprisoned on a false assault conviction?
Since it appears he filmed it on his cell phone, I would imagine the safest right thing to do would have been use the phone to call 911, instead of filming a group of children beating up another child and then subsequently posting it to the internet for kicks.
I don’t blame him one bit for not getting involved. He would have had multiple accusations against him from these young thugs.
If your first instinct is to put your own life in danger for every stranger then I think the bigger problem is a complete lack of self-worth.
“I don’t blame him one bit for not getting involved.”
Then you’re a bigger coward than the guy holding the camera. How about calling the police? How about keeping the camera rolling and turning a garden hose on those little assholes. How about yelling out the window to stop?
As a moderator I need to ask you to not accuse other posters of being cowards etc. Aruging the point in the second paragraph is great, but even though you disagree with her, please try not to insult. I’d ask the same of her to you should positions be reversed. Personally, I agree the most ethical thing he could have done was to call 911 and make a lot of noise so they realized he was there, watching.
Sorry…Let me rephrase: In my opinion, if someone is afraid to stop a child from being beaten in the street, they are a coward. There are a multitude of ways to protect oneself from being wrongfully accused of rape or assault while in the act of preventing a felony. Namely, as the coward in this story so aptly demonstrated competence in: The use of a recording device to capture evidence. Furthermore, with only a little creativity one my imagine calling the police, recruiting the assistance of other adults to serve as witnesses and to assist with restraining unruly children. There’s… Read more »
Agreed.
Let’s not forget though, turning the water on someone is now considered “assault”. So Jake counsels filming oneself committing assault. Nice. Very nice.
No, I am recommending filming the legal use of reasonable force to defend someone from imminent bodily harm.
There’s a big difference between interfering with a crime in progress and assaulting someone in the eyes of the law. You can continue to pretend there isn’t and try to hide your fear behind that false notion…but then you are just wrong and a coward.
It’s not hogwash at all. It’s somebody else’s bad children and the only thing you can do is call the police and collect evidence. If they happen to swarm you and have weapons then you are putting yourself in danger and risking having to go to court to prove self defense.
There’s plenty of opportunity for big talkers to be a hero and get yourself injured or put in jail.
“…the only thing you can do is call the police and collect evidence.” Your statement is not true. Not by custom, courtesy or the law. A normal citizen in the state of Rhode Island may interfere with someone in the act of committing a felony. In fact, Rhode Island has…wait for it…a ‘stand your ground’ law. ” If they happen to swarm you and have weapons then you are putting yourself in danger and risking having to go to court to prove self defense.” This is the issue on which rational people may differ…in my case, this is a risk… Read more »
So the kid with the drain shunt in her head was someone else’s bad child?? Are you kidding me? Your kid has a shunt to her head, obviously somewhat disabled by that, and other kids are beating your kid up. A grown adult watches this fight, watches this child get the crap beaten out of him/her and you’re cool with the fact that the grown adult simply TAPED it?! What other things will you sit by and watch? A woman on the street being raped, screaming for help? Will you shut your windows? Because there’s a very famous case of… Read more »
My conscience would force me to intervene (I’m pretty sure of that), but I’d hate myself afterwards for the likely consequences for my family and partner. It’s just a horrible situation, a cooler, with no good responses. It sounds like this girl needed immediate physical protection, but doing so puts you in severe danger of a sexual assault charge. Even running over yelling does so if there’s no one else around, although you should obviously call the police (and I don’t know why this guy didn’t). Not to intervene is cowardly but is also the rational option. I couldn’t be… Read more »
“There are a multitude of ways to protect oneself from being wrongfully accused of rape or assault while in the act of preventing a felony.” If you are a teacher then you have authority over these children, if you are a stranger you do not. I can’t imagine how this man could have protected himself with witnesses or evidence in a moments notice if he needed to put down the camera and become physically involved. He should have called the police, of course, but physically involving himself with children would very likely lead to accusations against him that he would… Read more »
“If you are a teacher then you have authority over these children, if you are a stranger you do not.”
A teacher has no special legal protection from prosecution in Rhode Island.
A teacher and a stranger have precisely the same level of responsibility in this case to act as well.
None.
Take care of your family first is all that matters. Friends second, community comes eventually. Overall, I see nothing but a parenting matter here, and the kids should have been corrected.
You are wrong and naive is a gentle way to describe your comments above. Yes, the man should have called the police. It is not his duty in today’s society (largely a result of influence of political-correctness and feminism the past forty plus years) to break up a fight that can lead to his own legal defense problems. Nor is it his duty to take a knife in his back. ‘A multitude of ways’… (eyes rolling here in laughter).
Round of applause for Jake. I agreed with everything you’ve said. I’d much rather have you as my neighbor than a lot of people on this blog. the degree of indifference and complacency people feel today is probably why society is down the toilet.
“turning a garden hose on those little assholes” For this you could get charged with assault. If they guy has a job and got charged with assault he could lose his job and have a difficult very getting another job because his assault would come up on background checks. Shout at the kids and they might vandalize your house and they WILL beat the girl up at another time. So you haven’t solved anything. Or you could call the police. By the time the police come the fight will be over and the kids will probably disband. And calling the… Read more »
Good points. But why put it on youtube instead of just going to the parents?
I agree he shouldn’t have posted on youtube. I would have gone to the parents or to the police.
Yes. That’s the big problem I have with his actions. “Getting involved” doesn’t necessarily mean jumping into the fray. It could be as simple as calling the police. He could have at least rationalized the filming as “collecting evidence” instead of “I can’t wait to put this on YouTube!” Calling the cops is at least “due diligence.” Sure, if the fight was short and didn’t cause any permanent damage, calling the cops would probably not make any difference, but how do you know how long the fight is going to last? I’d find it much more understandable if he just… Read more »
How about YELLING at the girls? How about holding his phone up and saying “I’ve called the police, get off that girl!”? How about calling the police. I’m actually nauseous at the discourse here. I’m sad that the way that the world has treated many of you has made you this afraid of the world. I’m sad that you’re willing to stand up for a man who watched a child get beaten and say he did the right thing. I wonder if any of you are the ones who say people aren’t interfering with bullying enough? I sincerely hope I… Read more »
Amen, Joanna.
Well said, Joanna. Holy cow these other comments are frightening.
One fight does not make bullying, certainly when boys are concerned. Unless you knew in advance the victim was lured to the location for the express reason of being assaulted then it could just as easily been a street brawl between friends.
Did the observer know all the facts that have been presented at the time of the attack?
Your whole entire response is based on fear. In every state in this country a person has a right to use reasonable force to defend self or others from imminent bodily harm.
Your argument is valid if it is “I am afraid to get involved”. Stop trying to rationalize your fear away.
Based on a legitimate fear. Every state may support the right to use reasonable force in self defense. But in order to make use of it it has to be shown it was self defense and in this country there have been cases where what most people would call self defense isn’t classified as such. There are plenty of instances in this country where people thought they could depend on the law to protect them and they ended up finding out the hardway that no such protection would be extended to them. So could it be that someone is afraid… Read more »
Tell that to Trayvon Martin. A bit of a throw away line, but seriously, you really really can end up dead, even if some weirdo is following you in a van asking “What are you doing here?”
First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me
.
Author–Martin Niemöller, a German pastor and theologian born in Lippstadt, Germany, in 1892
Never intervene when violence involves a female; you WILL wind up accused of sexual assault.
Be a citizen-journalist instead; document the incident for the authorities to use in redressing the problem.
Side note to guys: It’s no longer our job to be protectors and white knights of females, at risk to ourselves. Equality’s a wonderful thing.
Copyleft;
You got a point here. There is a possibility of getting arrested for something when your trying to help.
But how would you feel if your sister/wife/female friend was beaten and people just watched or videotaped the incident? I’d feel differently then.
I’d rather be arrested for trying to help, than finding out someone was seriously injured or killed and I did nothing. I could not sleep at night with that.
He absolutely did the right thing by protecting himself from the inevitable accusation of physical or sexual assault by one of the juvenile female assailants.
Exactly. There is absolutely nothing to prevent one of the girls from falsely accusing him of rape or sexual assault.
Asking a man to intervene in a fight between girls is like asking a black man during Jim Crow to intervene in a fight between whites. Its ridiculous. If anybody is going to intervene it should be a woman. After all its not the first time that women have falsely accused a man to cover up a fight:
http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2009/08/false-accuser-lied-to-cover-fight-with.html
Good point. Womyn and most girls know that they seldom if ever get into any judicial punishment (if caught) for making a false rape accusation.The ideals of chivalry are chains of lead around a man’s neck. The sooner men throw off those chains the better for all men.