Outdated ritual courting models are nerve-wracking and no fun. Greg Simms explains why.
I recently had a female friend of mine complain about the lack of men in her life who simply wanted to go on a date. When I say date, I mean go to a movie, dinner, and a city park, hold hands, and talk about their hopes and dreams. Or their exes. My friend was clearly mystified and upset that the new men she met only wanted to either meet for a quick beer, or go to his/her place. My good friend wondered why dating seemed to be on the wane, and why most men these days were dismissive at the idea of an old fashioned night on the town.
You know me. I had to tell her the truth. I told her, “You want to know why men don’t really date anymore?”
“Because dates suck.”
Yup. You read it here. Dates suck. They petrify men. Single men of the 21st century are scared to death of dates. Scared out of their minds. When a single woman brings up the idea of a date to a single man in 2013, it’s about as sexy as a prostate exam…and men avoid them.
Why do dates suck? Two reasons.#1. No man wants to get stuck with the crazy lady. The old myth to the male aversion to dates was that a man would feel cheated if he went out with a woman, and he didn’t get to have sex with her after the date. He would spend his money, and he would expect some “lovin'”. And if he didn’t get any, the date was a failure. That’s not the case anymore. Believe it or not, single men in 2013 have evolved considerably from that kind of thinking. It’s not the fear of no nookie that scares men away. It’s the fear of spending time with a woman who’s nuts. If you two go to a sports bar, and talk over beers, if there’s no chemistry, the man and the woman can leave as soon as the check comes. The beer’s been downed, the chicken wings eaten, and this woman/man who’s batshit crazy is in your rearview. But…if a guy takes a woman out on a date, the classic two person extravaganza, then he’s stuck with her for at least two hours. If she’s a cool woman, great. If she’s a loon…you’re toast.
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad freeI had a date earlier in the year that was a trainwreck. We ate at a seafood restaurant, and had drinks later. It was some of the most painful time I’ve ever spent with another adult. She wasn’t mean. Just… dull. And sad. There’s nothing wrong with a woman loving and making her kids the number one priority in her life. But… that’s all she was. There’s nothing sexy about a Dora The Explorer conversation. Nothing. I knew this date was screwed when the appetizers arrived. Imagine having a three hour conversation about kids you don’t know and kid stuff you’ve barely heard of. And I couldn’t get away. Not with high priced seafood on the way, and a woman who had kids that were to be picked up at 9 pm (The date started at 5:30 pm).
This is why single men these days prefer to meet at sports bars. Or his place. Or your place. Conversation, analysis… and then naked Twister. That’s what single men are looking for. You can add or remove the Twister part… but my point is, single men (and any single women) really want to know about you. We don’t need to extra “stuff” that dates are about.
#2. The money. Dates were more popular in the 20th century because….men didn’t know how to talk. Let’s face it, single men have really only started talking with women since “Oprah” hit the air. In years past, dates were important because men wanted to impress women, and they didn’t know quite how to with words. So, men were taught to spend a small fortune on women. Fast forward to today, and you know what one of the sexiest things in the world is? A single man and woman talking in a coffee shop. Barnes & Nobles is a better turn-on than Outback Steakhouse. When we live in a world where conversation is key to relationships, why spend a ton of money on your first night out with someone you just met?
Here’s another scenario. All single men have that one friend that was murder in the nightclub. He could mack on a woman with only his charm and witty wordplay. Now, we also had the friend who pulled his share of women by buying things for them. He’s bought her drinks. Wine, Henny, Jack and Coke. Now, he may have gotten a few phone numbers, but who really “won” that night? The guy who maxed out his credit card for a hug? Or the guy who talkedto the women, and got the same amount of play? When single men are anti-date when it comes to money, it’s not about being cheap, it’s about what’s essential. And the conversation and time spent is what’s key. Not a sizable dinner bill.
Now, with all of that said, I’m not saying that single men will never go on dates. Most men, when we do get involved in a relationship, that’s when we pay for the big dates. Men will go all out for their ladies. Hell, in a relationship, a man had better take his girlfriend out to dinner.
But while a man is single, ladies….go meet him for coffee.
This article originally appeared at Examiner.com.
Photo – epSos.de/Flickr
Seriously? This was at another website and it was imported? Why? It’s not up to the quality here; and it does this site a disservice; talk about first world problems! A boring conversation? Stop everything! Someone has had to endure a boring conversation! My god, why isn’t there legislation in place about this sort of thing?! I think the money issue is an issue worth raising if the understanding is that you are using financial outlay to impress, and are expected to use financial outlay to impress. That does exist as a cultural meme still doesn’t it? Is that a… Read more »
Modern day dating has evolved into café and bars, no more expencive restaurants or movies. Who wants to go to a movie anyway? I like to spent time with the girl so I can learn her to know. Not watching a movie in a dark room eating pop corns along tons of strangers and you cant even speak to her. Nah, the movie may work for you, not for me.
Y’know, Greg, if you want people to read your articles, you might consider having them published in a font that’s easier to read. Just a suggestion.
I’ve never cared for the classic form of dating, either. My husband and I met in college. We met in the dormitory laundry room (co-ed dormitories, divided only by room) and chatted in the on-campus café. We had the same friends, similar interests, were both ambitious about our studies, and very little has really changed. The way my husband describes it: “We started dating kinda late in our relationship.”
I didn’t realize everyone was that bad at reading a potential boyfriend or girlfriend. I must have a special gift. On the other hand since I’ve never seemed to be the person my date was expecting or wanted I should have figured this out already. Kind of a wasted talent…
Speaking as a single man who goes on dates somewhat regularly… if you can’t handle spending two hours of your life in an uncomfortable situation, after which you can go home and do whatever you want and never have to see/contact that person again, that’s pathetic. Yes, I’ve been on dates that had me wishing I were somewhere else by the time the appetizers arrived. And yes, those evenings sucked. And there have been times when I’ve looked for excuses to end the evening earlier than planned. But all those things come with the territory. If you can’t give up… Read more »
I have and continue to pay for myself on first dates because I think I am a grown woman and can afford my own things. I tend to meet new people for coffee or Brunch because I date online and I like to meet people in public first to make sure they’re not a serial killer. It’s more of a safety issue than an investment issue. I have a LTR (I’m Poly) and we often switch off paying for joint meals out. But the real kicker here is the idea that somehow the woman discussing her kids and leaving mercifully… Read more »
I’d love to talk about the kids. Kids are the best. Kids are real. Moms are all right, too.
by Alexandra Cavallin “If men weren’t so much into multi-dating and keeping their options open, money wouldn’t be a problem. Dating is a pleasure, it’s the beginning of getting to know someone that you have an interest in. Anyway what shocks me with these arguments, is the fact that men are more and more victimizing themselves, acting like poor little things, and more than all, they are totally lacking class and elegance. This article, like one I read yesterday, is the perfect proof of that. I cannot stand anymore men talking about money vs women, vs dating, vs this &… Read more »
> “I cannot stand anymore men talking about money vs women, vs dating, vs this & that, it is really vulgar.” Oh, I get it. What men want and worry about is vulgar. What women want is noble. And we’re still talking about equality?!? Equality my precious derriere! 😆 > “Thank God there still are some real and good men” I imagine the “good men” here refers to ones treating women like princesses… Sigh! Bad, bad Disney! 😉 But I wonder how many women around, are looking at men as princes (I mean actual men, not they ones they’re dreaming… Read more »
Another article about why men don’t date… Well dating sucks for us women too. Imagine going out with a guy, being nice, considerate, making sure he doesn’t spend a lot of money. And three months later he says, I am not ready for a serious relationship, but in reality the man had no intention of anything serious with you all along… Really stop using women as your Mrs. right now! I usually prefer short dates as well, coffee, a drink, a stroll to the park… I do not want to spend a long date with a man who’s paying for… Read more »
Talking about what you want from the relationship upfront is the way to deal with that. I told a woman over n over that us meeting up may or may not lead to anything further, that we’d give it a shot. It didn’t work out but she knew from the get go.
And hey, it’s ok to drop the ‘lady’ moniker. I’ve long considered it a synonym for high maintenance. R-E-S-P-E-C-T is one thing, and an excellent one. But all this holding the door, paying for dinner and so forth, it makes me nervous as hell — an implied quid pro quo. Know what I mean? Of course the woman should pay for her own coffee, dinner, movie etc. The up on a pedestal thing is way outdated. Besides, some of us (or I should say, I) love to watch baseball, discuss basketball, current events, political activism, _his_ kids… we want to… Read more »
Excellent comment from Nicole Abundance “Articles like this is an absolute waste of time to read because of the socialization of manhood in our world today, where men are conditioned to act like boys instead of men. A man who is about human connection don’t complain about “bad” dates and fear what comes his way. He takes it as a learning experience and know he can create what he wants in his life. There is no fear about spending his money, because he chooses how to have great time without coming off as having a mindset of lack instead of… Read more »
This is the most disappointing and retrogressive article I have ever read on this site. Feeding in to the “crazy woman” BS again? Dude….do you even LIKE women? No, I’m not talking about sleeping with them, but actually LIKING who they are as people? Mr. Simms, you sound like an entitled bore. I’m glad you’re not “dating” so there are fewer women who have to suffer through them with you.
Here’s a recommended read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/yashar-hedayat/a-message-to-women-from-a_1_b_958859.html
Enjoy the article, if you know….you aren’t too busy reading your Maxim.
Umm, some women are crazy. Sorry to burst your bubble but it’s a complete myth that every woman is sane and being gaslighted. Would you prefer emotionally unstable, violent, aggressive, explosive, volatile personality? I fear dating crazy women, because…they’re scary. Overly clingy is bad enough but when you start to fear for your safety then that is a hugggee issue.
People fear all kinds of things in relationship from crazyness, abusiveness, to rape n extreme violence.
Yep, some people are crazy. Nobody will deny that. But what we’re dealing with here is the difference between the incidence of actual people being crazy, and the stereotype that women are prone to be crazy, emotionally unstable, clingy, etc. If men look for ‘crazy’ in women, they will often find it. Case in point: this article’s author cites his bad date with a single mom (“not mean”, he concedes, “just dull and sad”) as his primary example of being stuck on a lengthy date with a ‘crazy’ woman. Who was probably just an overworked and undersocialized person struggling to… Read more »
[Oops, not sure how that ended up like that. How this comment was supposed to read:] Yep, some people are crazy. Nobody will deny that. But what we’re dealing with here is the difference between the incidence of actual people being crazy, and the stereotype that women are prone to be crazy, emotionally unstable, clingy, etc. If men look for ‘crazy’ in women, they will often find it. Case in point: this article’s author cites his bad date with a single mom (“not mean”, he concedes, “just dull and sad”) as his primary example of being stuck on a lengthy… Read more »
“It’s not the fear of no nookie that scares men away. It’s the fear of spending time with a woman who’s nuts.”
Made me lmao. Haha. 🙂
I think men are no longer interested in spending stupid amounts of money to spend a bit of time getting to know a woman. Women make their own money these days, but when the check comes for an expensive dinner out, it still ends up in front of the man. Formal first dates always have too much pressure attached to them. Most people don’t enjoy being nervous, dressing in uncomfortable clothing they don’t normally wear hoping not to spill their soup. A more casual meet at the coffee shop or book store or walk through the park is a much… Read more »
@Scott: “I think removing the expectation for a man to spend a lot of money on a date helps get rid of the idea that a woman has an expectation to “repay him” sexually.”
I think this pretty much sum it up.
In other words, men do not want to “invest” too much (time, money., hopes..), before knowing if their “investment” is going to be fruitful. That’s no equality.
If a single man I barely know is looking to come to my place or wants me to come to his place, he’s the one that’s the loon. I don’t even know how you can make the argument that men want to go to your or his place after talking about the thread of being stuck with women that could be “nuts”. I’ve had all kinds of dates and I’ve had men invite me to a bar for a beer, they usually turned out not to be the type of man I was interested in anyway. Men who, on the… Read more »
I’m curious, you don’t want to be treated like his guy friends, how do you want to be treated?
Do his guy friends get sex from him? Dating somebody is different than being friends. If neither puts in effort to the possibly budding relationship, then they’re going to have a bad time.
Its does set them up to be good friends at least, and if you’re looking for and ltr don’t you want to be friends? The standard dating scheme sets men up to always be proving their worth to the woman, which is probably bad for the relationship in the long run.
Not really JTCC, I’ve had to prove my *worth* a lot of times. I am practically invisable to men when I am chubbier. When I was working out hard and skipping meals, and thinner, men sure did like me more. They didn’t even want to get to know me. I’ve been dumped, sometimes after the first date or 2nd or thrid. Sometimes I’ve been told the reason and sometimes not. Clearly I did not prove my worth very well to them. When I go out on a date, I am not looking for a man to prove himself to me… Read more »
Can’t you connect with men at home though?
Do you mean treated like guy friends as in, hanging out, get same level of attention? When I hang out with someone I am interested in at home, I don’t view it anything even remotely close to being like the guys. Dates get expensive, is movies at home ok? Spending time at the beach?
Once some kind of relationship has been established, hanging out at home is great . One of my favorite kind of dates is being home, cooking dinner together. However, in my experience, men largely push for sex much easier and sooner than I am ready to have it. Often, the very first “date”, even when it’s just coffee, they push for it. So the last thing I want to do is go to his place or mine when I am just getting to know a guy. A) I am just getting to know him. B) I’ve found that a lot… Read more »
amen, sister. but there is no way in hell you are coming to my place or i’m going to yours as a FIRST date. not happening. but if you’ve asked me out, i do expect some consideration, and unless i’ve told you that i’m the biggest sports fan this side of the mississippi, or that i can’t bear to miss MNF this week, if you invite me to join you at a sports bar, you’re off on the wrong foot. as a first date, i’m all for coffee, drinks, or hell, even a slice! as long as it shows that… Read more »
> “men don’t seem to feel the need to try to impress a woman on a first date.” And why should we?!? After all of these equality talks, are we still expected to “perform”? Oh my! I’ve been looking at women as equals since I was a kid. Thus, I don’t expect them to “impress” me, just as I do not want to prove anything to them. When dating, I try to be myself and I hope she’ll be herself. That way, we’ll soon find if we like each other – or not. IMO, those kind of expectations (impress, be… Read more »
WOW.
I am at this point in my life…again. I am slightly old-school, especially in dating. I had so many bad times I couldn’t even count. BUT- Recently I have embraced the coffee/beers/milkshake style and I am much happier, even though I felt like I have been cheaping out. Glad to see this isn’t a bad thing to do.
THANKS!