Tom Matlack doesn’t understand why we can’t talk about the good of men without continuing to step backwards.
“Why We Need to Stop Bemoaning the End of Men” writes Meghan Casserly in the most recent Forbes Magazine (which @NicJohnsonPEC was kind enough to tweet to me this morning).
Meghan starts out strong, nailing the whole End of Men argument and tearing apart Manning Up: How the Rise of Women Has Turned Men Into Boys by Kay Hymowitz. She quotes HuffPo contributor Marcia Reynolds who, she says, “put it best” when she said, “We are all evolving. It’s the labels and judgments we place on each other that are not evolving.”
Amen, girlfriend, with you 100%.
But after all this great prose from a woman in Forbes magazine of all places saying that the women sociologists-psychos like Hanah Rosen and Kay Hymowitz who are so determined to take down men rather than work with them as a force for good (Yeah, this whole thing is a bit too Star Wars for my taste with us guys as the “dark side” for sure), my BFFL Meghan goes completely under on me. Just after bemoaning labels she goes right back to the well.
It’s true. We want our men smart, but not cocky. Protective, but not patronizing. Driven, but not a dick. And we also want him to help us out when we’ve got an eight pm meeting and there are kids that need to get fed. In other words, we want a decent human being to pick up the slack where we can’t, provided we pick up the slack for him. Seems like a reasonable trade.
Don’t like ads? Become a supporter and enjoy The Good Men Project ad freeSo why is asking for equality, the “end of men?” Why is asking our partners to be partners emasculating?
Because despite the case-by-case expectations of equality in gender roles, culturally we haven’t let go of the paternalistic authority of men over women. And stories about the “decline” of our men-folk aren’t making things better for any of us.
How a thinking person could champion a woman’s strides towards equality in the same breath that they criticize men for becoming less than as a result is beyond me. The double-standard—that a women can and must demand her seat at the table to be a real woman but that a man giving up his to clear dishes makes him less than a real man—is just so outdated.
Let alone the fact that women only hold 3.2% of the top CEO positions and, across the board still earn roughly 79 cents to the dollar. Oh, and we’re still the only ones who can bear children (thanks, science!). The pages of Forbes aren’t yet filled with feminine faces. ForbesWoman still exists. We may be winning some battles of the sexes, but we still haven’t won the war.
Really, Meghan? We had to go back to the old paternalistic authority argument? And just when I thought we were getting somewhere here.
I think labels do suck. I think most men in 2011 are descent human beings who are not emasculated by cuddling their kids and doing the dishes (and actually think its the best part of their day, read just a sampling of posts here on GMP). The whole idea behind what we are doing here is to be, as men, partners to our wives and husbands. Why the piling on?
And just when I couldn’t get any more depressed, my buddy and our wonderful columnist here on GMP tweets me this:
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photo: iamalegend / flickr
Woah, woah, woah. Wait… what? Ok. I completely understand, and agree, that we need to move forward together and let go of labels, etc, or that many men don’t feel emasculated. And I’m cool if we could get over calling it “gender wars” because I’d much rather *not* pit people against one another or pretend we’re on different sides for some reason. That said… as a woman, I don’t for a second believe the patriarchy is over. I still feel bias and prejudice due to my gender every day. I still see it holding my colleagues back. Not all men… Read more »
That said… as a woman, I don’t for a second believe the patriarchy is over. I still feel bias and prejudice due to my gender every day. I still see it holding my colleagues back. Not all men feel as you do, Tom. I wish it were otherwise, but it’s not. Yes, I think *always* going with “gender war” can be unhelpful, but I do feel like this is still a battle. There are still lines in the sand. There is still progress to be made. There are still men, AND WOMEN, who are blocking that progress. I do not,… Read more »
It is always so much easier to look at things from the individual basis than dig into the systemic. Even when we look at the institutional level (which yes is made up of individuals) it’s hard not to take things personally. Let’s look at it this way. I’ve been a relatively healthy person my whole life. Most of my friends have never gotten cancer. Does that mean that on a systemic health level we don’t need to address issues of cancer prevention, research, and cures? After all, I don’t know anyone who’s gotten sick, and I don’t think it could… Read more »
Julie, I agree, the systemic issues need to be looked at. But that’s why I pointed out homelessness, dangerous jobs, and wars. (And let’s not forget suicide, which men commit four times as much as women.) Take, for example, Warren Farrell’s book, “The Myth of Male Power.” That goes directly to the systemic. Agree with him or disgaree with him, but I can’t even get my female friends to consider the possibility that he has something valuable to say. For instance, Farrell has some interesting data on the income disparity that points to factors other than sexism, including the fact… Read more »
Well said, Danny.
I read the article as saying that the whole “End of Men” hypothesis comes from the cultural idea that men whould have paternalistic authority over women, so when that authority declines, some start bemoaning that men are finished. You can’t deny that historically, women were considered children who required the father-like authority of a male throughout their lives to support and guide them. That idea has largely disappeared, but that fact seems to create cultural anxiety. At one extreme, you can see that anxiety with the type of MRA’s who want submissive mail-order brides who will respect male authority. You… Read more »
Well, at least Kay Hymowitz did an excellent job in presenting the statistics showing a general decline in male achievement. Her celebratory tone was most unwelcome. 40% male university enrolment and dropping is something that needs to be addressed and at least people like Warren Farrell are showing some concern rather than pretending it doesn’t exist.
http://whitehouseboysmen.org/blog/
If you reject Hymowitz’s argument then why do you embrace Michael Kimmel’s Guyland?
I am not a fan of MIchael Kimmel.
People stop taking me so seriously. I was joking about the gun. Just a vivid way of saying “this is getting REALLY old.” Sorry if it put people on edge this morning. Been enjoying my day ever since writing it. Not like I sit around with clenched fists over this kind of thing. Just get annoyed and move on…wanted to make a point and perhaps did it with a bit too much vigor. I’ve been accused of that more than once…
It was indeed vivid. 😉
Tom – I thought the closing line was more than appropriate and evocative of the frustrations. 😉
I thought it was great. And very funny.
“Because despite the case-by-case expectations of equality in gender roles, culturally we haven’t let go of the paternalistic authority of men over women. And stories about the “decline” of our men-folk aren’t making things better for any of us.” I have two friends who are blissfully happy in their marriage and domestic arrangements. It’s a delight to visit at any time. They have few house rules. One is their front door is always open – but they do reserve the right to require anyone who enters to leave upon request. No matter what happens in life, you will get unwelcome… Read more »
That was more or less me in the title picture at 5am this morning :). Couldn’t get back to sleep (horror film was a bad idea) so I decided to argue about gender instead. Thats a great article, well said. I think the “end of men” had some excellent points though. For me the article was about how women now have two gender roles and (some) men have none. Many men are still culturally entrenched in the idea that they’re supposed to be 1950s men, rather than 2010s men. I suspect that this will fade when all those female graduates… Read more »
Tom, thank you for the work you (and your team) are doing. I appreciate what it’s taking (and taking out of you) to wade through it all. I know that it’s going to make a difference in the way men and women relate (I’m holding that vision!).
What’s more ridiculous? The war on drugs or the war between sexes? Due to the fact that drugs are an actualy problem and not a fabrication I’ll say the war of the sexes. Or are you talking about the wars themselves? I’ll go with the war on drugs because I’m betting that one certainly resulted in more lives lost and ruined and money wasted. Really, Meghan? We had to go back to the old paternalistic authority argument? And just when I thought we were getting somewhere here. Oh we were or at least making stride. Its just that some people… Read more »
Wow, this is one article I’d like to sit and actually talk to you about over coffee, rather than type. I have so many questions to as you, but the internet doesn’t seem like the forum for it. My writing is clumsy today, please forgive me. Part of the issue for me is that there are articles like “The End Of Men” and then there are real people who just like living their lives in their partnerships. But there are also lots of books and articles with those fears, and there are websites focused on those fears of men. Where… Read more »
Julie I guess my point is that this whole gender construct with men as oppressors because of the paternalistic system (and where “The End of Men” is some kind of successful sneak attack by women announced by female sociologists) is just getting us absolutely no where. The point of GMP, the point of what is actually going on in the world, has to do with men and women working together in all their diversity and uniqueness and in all shapes, sizes, colors, and orientations. This whole feminism vs. MRA; women are getting screwed vs. men are now getting screwed worse;… Read more »
I think this is, for me, a both and situation. There are indeed people making things better outside of a binary (win v lose) and there are many many people who have and share stories on an individual level. And there are (and have been more) institutional problems. Much has shifted over the last 50 years on that institutional and personal level. Much can be done both for men and for women, but that doesn’t mean that “all” problems are solved/fixed whathaveyou, any more than saying racism doesn’t exist anymore and let’s just drop all that nonsense and we’re all… Read more »
Sure that is why we have Hugo AND me.
On race I am totally with you. Read anything I have written and you will see. I actually think the collective facts and figures there are much more stark than on gender. Men of color or systematically getting screwed when you look at education achievement, wealth, and prison. You really can’t interpret the data any other way.
What’s more ridiculous? The war on drugs or the war between sexes? I don’t get it? Because Helen Reddy made a song in the early 70s and Gloria Steinhem wrote it, we have to be at odds with females? Maybe Meghan should come by my house where I live with 4 women, a wife and 3 daughters, and listen to what they have to say. They don’t seem to think their husband and dad is an adversary. Ok, well, the teenager does, but that’s beside my point. I work around women every day. We’re more worried about getting our jobs… Read more »
You and me both brother. Between my teenage daughter, my current wife, my ex-wife, my mom, all my nieces who I am very close to, my sister, my mother in-law, I am a man surrounded by women. And pretty darn happy about it.
This sounds like me, except I have two daughters. not three In my world, there is no gender war. I love my girls and they love me, their boy cousins, uncles, grandfathers, friends, etc. This whole gender war concept is so foreign to me. My boss and her two bosses are women, and gender is irrelevant to what we get done.
As far as I have seen, wherever feminism rears it’s head, gender wars seem to break out. Without feminism, men and women seem to get along just fine.
Oops!
“This sounds like me, except I have two daughters not three. In my world, there is no gender war.”
Perhaps I should try proofreading occassionally.