In “no, duh” news, several new studies reported by the New York Times show that bisexual men actually exist.
One of the most common biphobic narratives is that the penis is what counts. A woman who has sex with men is really straight, even if she also fucks women; a man who has sex with men is really gay, even if he also fucks women. If a man fucks a man, even once, he is forever corrupted from the heights of heterosexual masculinity. It’s the new One Drop rule. (Comments that explain this using femmephobia and/or the view of male sexuality as inherently degrading get a cookie. Comments that explain this using some mechanism I haven’t thought of get infinite cookies.)
It is also interesting to note that the studies cited in the New York Times stopped with that “judging heterosexuality by showing lesbian porn”, since I personally think it is extremely weird to clinically define male heterosexuality as the condition of being a man turned on by two lesbians doin’ it.
What if the supposed male fascination with lesbian sex is so popularized, that lesbian sex is inseparable from hetero male sexuality in the popular mind. When we think of women sleeping with women, we think heterosexual male fantasy, we don’t actually think about real lesbians. As a side note, I’m a guy and I just don’t get the excitement on lesbian sex. Don’t get me wrong, it’s definitely a spectacle, but I actually find it kinda discouraging. I like to be able to at least pretend she would desire my body and likeness. Two women totally into lady parts? Hard… Read more »
I have been out since high school and have gone through much of what gay men have gone through as far as homophobia, the need to leave one’s home town, parental disapproval (I was kicked out). I came out as bisexual has already had sexual encounters with women but was also attracted to men too. Over the years I ended up dating more girls than guys. I never felt connected to the gay community unless I dated a guy. And when the 2005 study came out I was subjected to 6 years of interrogation from gay and some straight peers.… Read more »
“I wish more of the gay community would support us, because if bisexuality in men became more accepted a lot of homophobia would disappear and LGBT would be a lot stronger.’ So, so true. When gay men deny that any man can really be bi, I think it’s just anger at what they think is a betrayal. It’s counter-productive bitterness. This bitterness and anger is also behind the way so many gay organizations and individual gay men back women’s groups so unthinkingly, as away of avenging themselves on straight men. It can be self-destructive too, as when gay men back… Read more »
You know I have known lot of bi men, including myself, and there are those who just want to play around, but the most fluid men, men who have sex and romantic relationships with both men and women seem to be very intuitive feeling oriented people, they are open to all that they are. But many guys on the down low bisexual are often a lot more conflicted with social pressures. I know bisexuality in men is just as fluid as it is with women but the need to deny male bisexuals existence is another way to “keep the gay… Read more »
I do think part of the snark about that article was in relation to the previous 2005 study that got a lot of people seriously up in arms. I believe the title of the NYT article about that one was “Gay, Straight, Or Lying? Bisexuality Revisted”, which was also the name of the study. This quote by the lead researcher was especially suspect: “I’m not denying that bisexual behavior exists,” said Dr. Bailey, “but I am saying that in men there’s no hint that true bisexual arousal exists, and that for men arousal is orientation.” I can’t presume to know… Read more »
With regards to your comment on lesbian porn, the article says the test subjects watched both male and female “same-sex intimacy”. I am pretty sure the scientists did this not because they wanted to equate being a heterosexual male with being aroused by two girls getting it on, but because they wanted to measure their responses to sexual scenes of only one gender at a time. I get your concern, but as the scientific method goes, this does make sense. I suppose they could have used videos of men and women masturbating instead. In any case I don’t think they… Read more »
@Jade: “You don’t get to decide…”
Which sounds, in my messed-up mind’s ear, rather hostile. I do use “Blunt object” words, but I never actually set out to offend.
@Jim “I have heard intersex…”
Yes! That’s what I mean! Intersex is a good word. YOINK!
“me Jim, it offends me, and just about every other trans woman ive ever spoken to. im not sure who coined it but it is used as a term of othering, a statement that a person is not really fully female.” Frankly I have only seen it used in porn to refer to people with penises and fully developed breasts and other female attributes. ” it was used as the title to a book written by a prominent rad fem about trans women being a patriarchal invention for invading womens spaces (i believe the beginning of the title was the… Read more »
‘Who does “shemale” offend? I have heard it used only in connection with intersex people; do they call it offensive?’ me Jim, it offends me, and just about every other trans woman ive ever spoken to. im not sure who coined it but it is used as a term of othering, a statement that a person is not really fully female. it was used as the title to a book written by a prominent rad fem about trans women being a patriarchal invention for invading womens spaces (i believe the beginning of the title was the transsexual empire). it has… Read more »
The word “shemale” was originally coined in the very early 20th Century and was initially used as psychological jargon for IS people and everyone with behaviour and personality traits that “mixed or crossed gendered lines”. In the 1920s, it morphed into a derisive term for feminists, and it wasn’t used as porn industry jargon for trans women until, at earliest, the late 1970s.
““Shemale” is offensive? Transwoman is probably better, …”
Well no, because that particular form has been used by radfems to deny that trans women are women.
Who does “shemale” offend? I have heard it used only in connection with intersex people; do they call it offensive?
“Shemale” is offensive? Transwoman is probably better, but sounds kinda dull. That’s the problem with alla this here PC language, it needs Jazzin’ up! At least IMO. Hell, maybe it’s just me, and I’m a bad Liberal. The Point that I was trying to make was, Bailey Jay Grainger is awesomely hot, and I would so worship her girlcock until the very break of day. Given the chance, of course. The underlying point being, that I fully believe that sexuality is defined not by what your undercrackers are covering, but by your own definition. I just don’t keep up with… Read more »
lot of people belive bisexuals are just horny individuals who take whaterver they can. I admit i never understood this kind of mentality. If a person feel his buddys attractive, while at same time is also attracted toward females. It his and his own business, why am I supposed to judge this person sexuality?
Well, I’m glad this is out there. Now we can have much more fun snarking at the people who say bisexuals don’t exist.
Also, Simon, “shemale” is offensive.
There’s also the “your current partner determines your “real” sexuality” – a bisexual woman dating a woman will be referred to as a lesbian even if she explicitly identifies as bi, because hey, she’s not fucking a dude right now! A bi man currently having sex with a woman is “really” straight after all, just confused all those times he tripped and fell on a cock! A bi woman in a relationship with a man? Similarly confused about her homosexual activities! A bi man dating a man? Gay, but had sex with women to conform to societal norms! Another narrative… Read more »
My sexuality sounds a lot like the sexuality you just described, and I get the same crap from everyone. Its nice to know I’m not the only one.
So I know a straight woman and bisexual woman both fag hags who have had a lot of sex on a regular basis with out “gay” men. And being I have hung around a lot of “straight” guys in high school who blew each other off and did all sorts of other experimenting. And know straight guys who tell me their adult mansex experiences, and homoerotic desires. So what is it really all about? I have always been turned on by women and men. So I couldn’t identify as straight or gay. I had sex and had LTRs and couldn’t… Read more »
Michel Foucault warned us all that psychology and sexology and sexual orientation science have become the grand inquistors of the age. And science has an “authority” for what passes as truth. We only need remember that “homosexuality” in general was still considered a disease in 1971, by science. And babies were once that to only be produced by sperm alone and not sperm and eggs, by science of the 1600’s. So let’s all be healthy and skeptical about science. The first Bailey study seriously fucked my life. I am glad I exist again but I received really bad shit for… Read more »
I would have described myself as 1/132 gay, and I’ve got the sample space to prove it, but I guess now I’m all gay. I never knew.
“There is nothing abstract about the power that sciences and theories have to act materially and actually upon our bodies and our minds, even if the disclosure that produces it is abstract. It is one if the forms of domination, it’s very expression.” -Monique Wittig
I think this is biggest problem; hence the frustration.
debaser, I have to agree. Measuring tumescence – and not bothering to exclude other possible causes? Pffffft. “Good news, bisexual men: Scientists have decided that you exist! You may now stop fighting your attraction to both women and men, because some dude in a lab coat says you’re allowed to want whoever you want.” Yeah, Tamen. When they could have said something substantive such as “Look, all you people who insist on denying bisexual men’s reality because it may undermine your gender or political agenda, and gay organizations and advocates, we’re looking at you – just back the fuck off… Read more »
IMO social science is so soft it only sometimes crosses path with real science. This study is not one of those times.
Well, I guess that means I can call “Mostly Straight” now. Also, that whole madness discounts Transsexuality in all forms. Like I wouldn’t do Buck Angel, cos he’s a dude, but with a vag, but I’d Jerk off Bailey Jay ’til the break of dawn. (Cos she’s the Queen of the Shemales)
Hey, I exist! (or pansexual if you prefer that term, I prefer to say I’m attracted to the people I’m attracted to. I don’t really care what term they label it.) Next there’ll be research showing that I’m not interested in poly relationships and only intellectually (i.e., “I should try this at some point before I say I’m not interested even though I suspect I won’t be”) interested in multi-partner sessions. Maybe some day science will figure out that casual sex has little value to me that a fake vagina couldn’t provide. Then maybe some day later people will realize… Read more »
Tamen: aaaaaaah ok now im following. When E.E mentin Jezebel I though it was another user on this site, that for some reason I couldn read the comments…
okokok im bit slow today…sorry.
Kenshiroit: Well, by calling it ‘ “no, duh” news’ one kind of implies that there is no reason to do this research as it is self evident. That attitude is nicely sidestepping the value in actually confirming and validating what many (but far from all) consider to be true anyway. And please tell me how this first paragraph from the Jezebel article is snark free: Good news, bisexual men: Scientists have decided that you exist! You may now stop fighting your attraction to both women and men, because some dude in a lab coat says you’re allowed to want whoever… Read more »
Easely Enthrusted: I also am hurt by the snark that Jezebel et al. have shown towards a scientific study. I love science. Part of my way of respecting that which I love is by not being snarky when it operates as intended.
Snarky comments? where?…..