Apparently this is a real book. I don’t… I can’t even…
About ozyfrantz
Ozy Frantz is a student at a well-respected Hippie College in the United States. Zie bases most of zir life decisions on Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, and identifies more closely with Pinkie Pie than is probably necessary. Ozy can be contacted at [email protected] or on Twitter as @ozyfrantz. Writing is presently Ozy's primary means of support, so to tip the blogger, click here.
@Schala:
I’ve given this some thought, and I’m wondering if maybe you’re making too much eye contact?
“@L: Yeah probably. Not even so much intentional disinterest as lacking signals of interest. Women with aspergers often have a hard time getting guys to approach, even when they are interested, because of all the non-verbal signals they’re not putting out.” I apparenly put too many signals. People will interpret my being open and friendly as flirty, because maybe it is in wide society, but it’s not what I intended. And it wasn’t something like sitting on someone’s lap either. So either they think I’m interested, or they give up on me because I appear to flirt with everyone who… Read more »
@L:
Yeah probably. Not even so much intentional disinterest as lacking signals of interest. Women with aspergers often have a hard time getting guys to approach, even when they are interested, because of all the non-verbal signals they’re not putting out.
@JE: Yeah, obviously. I was musing aloud that maybe my fundamental disinterest, despite being aware of how things were “supposed” to go was something guys could smell a mile away or not.
“(I’d have rather gotten caught up playing DDR for hours than worry about giving a friend of a friend of a friend the opportunity to approach).”
I think the advice was meant for someone who actually wanted to be approached for their own sake rather than for the sake of the potential approacher
@Daelyte (and I guess @Flyingkal too): Good suggestions… for the gal that’s interested in being approached! I remember initially asking out of more of a clinical curiosity, because being approached by guys in public and recreational settings was what the narrative always was. Personally, I never went looking for it because ace-spectrum (I’d have rather gotten caught up playing DDR for hours than worry about giving a friend of a friend of a friend the opportunity to approach). Maybe there’s something about me that tells people right off the bat that I’m uninterested? And yeah, the people I have a… Read more »
@JE: “Because it’s assumed the women will not approach. Which isn’t true of all women, but it’s true of alot of them. Enough so that it’s probably not worth it for a guy to make himself more approachable.” While often true, I can see two major exceptions. 1. Some venues might have high numbers of non-traditional women, like say feminist groups. Such women are more likely to approach, thus being approachable could be a viable strategy for a man in that context. 🙂 2. If a guy takes it to extremes, he can have women approach him out of simple… Read more »
“Or why the burden seems mainly to be on women to make sure they are behaving in an “approachable” manner.”
Because it’s assumed the women will not approach. Which isn’t true of all women, but it’s true of alot of them. Enough so that it’s probably not worth it for a guy to make himself more approachable.
@coffee_queen: “Great response! You’ve obviously put a lot of thought into this. :)” I wrote it off the top of my head, mostly based off what some FPUAs wrote on PUA forums. I know next to nothing about dating. 😳 “Me, I fail at dating because I fail to distinguish the difference between “friendly” and “flirty” 99% of the time and tend to talk myself out of believing I’m being flirted with the 1% of the time I think, hey, maybe he’s flirting!” I’m worse. Thanks to AS, most of the time I can’t even tell the difference between friendly… Read more »
@coffee_queen: I can’t help but wonder what the happy medium between women sitting and preening and doing nothing at a party/event and flitting about enjoying the sights and company would be that would enable a guy to “approach.”
It seems to me that the space in between is a sliding scale, so there should be plenty of room to find a “medium”. But since I’m a total failure at flirting I wouldn’t dare trying to tell someone where the “happy” part is 🙂
Thanks to Daelyte for an, in my opinion, excellent and thought-out answer.
@daelyte: Great response! You’ve obviously put a lot of thought into this. 🙂 Me, I fail at dating because I fail to distinguish the difference between “friendly” and “flirty” 99% of the time and tend to talk myself out of believing I’m being flirted with the 1% of the time I think, hey, maybe he’s flirting! “During that time you can scan the room to see if anybody’s looking, sip your drink, lick your ice cream, do a little dance, watch the show, play with a yoyo, burp, fart, whatever. Just so long as it looks like a good time… Read more »
For men and women wanting some feedback concerning their looks…
How about posting photos on sites like “Hot or Not”, to get a crowdsourced rating?
You can even try different poses and styles, find out what looks good on you.
@coffee_queen: “OTOH I can’t help sometimes feeling guilty for wanting to cheer myself up by being nice to someone.” It’s not a zero-sum game. 🙂 “I can’t help but wonder what the happy medium between women sitting and preening and doing nothing at a party/event and flitting about enjoying the sights and company would be that would enable a guy to “approach.”” IMO all it takes is a short moment away from your friends. You can skip the sitting and preening, and you can still enjoy the sights. Every so often, let’s say once an hour, get up and go… Read more »
Any cooks in the house?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ty-z0Xk1A&feature=plcp&context=C4cbefe9VDvjVQa1PpcFP-3rdcbVbI3bWLWfrhsbL71-YXCqwgRao=
@daelyte: “I never get tired of hearing stuff like this. I find it comforting to be reminded that women want men too, and that dating is not a zero-sum game.” Haha, my friends and sister would likely make you smile with the way we talk about how sexy guys are. 🙂 Like stopping mid-conversation and blurting out, “Hey there’s a cute guy over there!” “Humans are social animals. When everyone around us looks depressed, it gets us down. Making people happy tends to cheer us up. Plus there’s the whole “paying it forward” thing. People who receive compliments might be… Read more »
Colette: If you’d read what those women were saying then you might realize that explanation makes zero sense since to begin with since such compliments generally aren’t considered a “fortunate” thing nor linked to dating/relationships/sex (and if so, not in a positive way). Whether they are linked to dating/relationships/sex or not (and from what I’m understanding the expression of attraction does sometimes indicate an interest in such things, but not always). And as for the compliments themselves some actually do feel a bit fortunate to receive them. Well if a given guy is expressing not getting them then my question… Read more »
@coffee_queen: “Guys are sexy! For the very reason that they are guys! I bet a lot of people feel this way.” I never get tired of hearing stuff like this. I find it comforting to be reminded that women want men too, and that dating is not a zero-sum game. “Why do we compliment each other anyway?” Humans are social animals. When everyone around us looks depressed, it gets us down. Making people happy tends to cheer us up. Plus there’s the whole “paying it forward” thing. People who receive compliments might be more likely to give some out, and… Read more »
Danny, “Make themselves feel better about the idea that in the realm of men vs women (yes it shouldn’t be that way but it currently is) there is no way that a guy’s misfortune in dating/relationships/sex/etc… could be anything other than his own creation. And I put that in the form of a question rather than a declaration for a reason.” If you’d read what those women were saying then you might realize that explanation makes zero sense since to begin with since such compliments generally aren’t considered a “fortunate” thing nor linked to dating/relationships/sex (and if so, not in… Read more »
Okay, total derail but a thought occurred to me: Why do we compliment each other anyway? Seriously! I mean, what’s in it for Person A to tell Person B “You’re funny/hot/smart/awesome/etc.”? On one level it’s kind of arrogant of Person A to think that Person B’s day will be made better just because Person A gave them a compliment, if that makes sense. : Especially when it comes to unsolicited compliments from strangers or people-you-know-on-sight-but-are-not-well-acquainted-with. I know when I compliment my friends and family, it’s because I know they value my thoughts to some extent, and would be happy to… Read more »
@L First, thanks for your answer. Second, regarding the “always doing things, always being busy.” I’m not claiming to know your situation or your frineds, but I think you might be misunderstanding Daelyte a bit? My take on this is that, as a teenage boy, I think it’s rather difficult and probably not just a little bit intimidating to try and first get the attention and then to have some sort of conversation with someone who’s all over the place checking on different things. Oftentimes, it has nothing to do with being afraid of “strong, independent girls”, or expecting them… Read more »
AB, regarding compliments.
I hear what you’re saying.
But what I picked up on in this discussion was the posts about how women are actually giving compliments to men they are attracted to, and have seemingly no problems doing so.
L: That assumes that people don’t have different personality types and preferred gender roles (or none at all). I am a pursuer… just not a pursuer of people. I think if I had been a boy, doing the things I wanted to do would have been met with just that much less resistance. And yet, I have still been conditioned to fear and loathe (perceived) failure just as much as any man. I’m kind of getting the brunt of both worlds as it is. No just pointing out how someone sees how “if ____ were ___….” there would have been… Read more »
@Flyingkal: “Do you have any opinion about how conventionally attractive a guy has to be for said lingerie model to throw herself at him…?” Attraction is complicated. The odds are better if you’re attractive to many women of course, but the preferences of a lingerie model are as likely to vary as any other woman, and some women’s preferences are far outside the norm. Maybe your big hooked nose reminds her of that teacher she had a crush on in high school, back when she was an ugly duckling, and it drives her crazy if you also wear an argyle… Read more »
@daelyte: I’m just gonna have to say that you don’t really know the situations, what my friends are like, what their friends are like, what the get togethers were like, etc., so given that, your explanation is kind of off. You’re just gonna have to trust me on this one. And honestly, I’m not chalking it up to be a “all, or even most, men feel this way”, I’m saying it’s more a maturity thing. Teenage boys are easily intimidated by girls that have strong personalities and don’t fall all over themselves whenever a dude talks to them. /personal anecdote… Read more »
I was trying to think of how to say something to the effect of “gender roles play a big part in this” and AB said it better than I could have. Nice. Flyingkal: My take on that is that a compliment (for me) doesn’t even have to be about looks, as long as it indicates some sort of attractíve interest that’s just not common courtesy. I can see that. For me its a matter of never getting complimented on my looks so that’s where my desires lie. And while an indication of attractive interest would be nice its really not… Read more »