Clearly, our society is currently obsessed with modern men and manliness, why?
By now, most of you have read or heard about The New York Times “Room for Debate” opinion page section that debated this question: Are Modern Men Manly Enough? The synopsis for their debate reads: “Are men spending too much time at the spa and the gym in lieu of grittier, manlier pursuits? And if so, is this making them less masculine?”
Writer Natasha Scripture weighs in with her piece: “Where are the Meat and Potato Men?” and Joel Stein has his say in his article, “Rediscover the Don Draper Within”. Natasha says she hasn’t met a manly man in some time, while Joel feels most modern men couldn’t fix a kitchen sink. There are six other writers who opine on the subject of 21st century manliness; in my opinion, author Shawn Taylor won the debate. Brilliant piece, Shawn!
To The New York Times writers and any other person who thinks modern men are not manly, I offer you this distinguished group of bona fide manly men: Aron Ralston, Pat Tillman (and every other man who has served – or is currently serving – in the United States Armed Forces), Man vs. Wild’s Bear Grylls, The cast of Deadliest Catch, the cast of Ice Road Truckers, every healthcare worker affiliated with Doctors Without Boarders, etc.
I could continue giving more examples of men who work in the trades or agriculture, but I’d also like to pay tribute to every chivalrous man who lives his life with integrity and humility. These men can be found everywhere – all over the world. They could be engineers, hairstylists, chefs, school teachers, musicians, nurses, etc. I don’t believe an occupation or a geographic location makes a man manly. Manliness does not have to connote power, strength, boldness, courage, fierceness or ruggedness. Every man is his own man and possesses his own brand of masculinity. I believe manliness comes from a man’s grace and his character; it’s in his soul.
Yes, there has been a superfluous amount of attention placed on 21st century men being “metrosexual” and overly feminized. And yes, companies in the fashion and beauty industries are marketing products for men – so what! I love seeing my husband look dapper and coiffed, the same way he enjoys seeing me styled with purpose. Being “mansome” does not make a man less of a man. All men take pleasure in being groomed and pampered – within their comfort zone.
We can thank the industrial revolution and advances in science and technology for soothing our primitive pursuits. Joel Stein, here’s a question for you: why would a man hunt for meat when he can go to the grocery store and buy a nice Delmonico steak? Furthermore, when was the last time you’ve been hunting? To be fair, Joel, I doubt you’d leave your journalism career to pursue cattle ranching. And here’s a fact for you, Natasha Scripture: men cry; yes, they actually shed tears. Deal with it, Natasha. It’s a beautiful thing.
Are modern men manly enough? I think that’s a ridiculous question. Interestingly enough, The New York Times would never debate this question on their opinion page: Are modern women womanly enough? Wow, can you imagine that! Feminists would crash The New York Times website. I hate to iron and I don’t know how to sew or bake apple pies. Does that make me less womanly? I don’t think so. Moreover, I know plenty of men who enjoy ironing and cooking. Does that make them less manly? Absolutely not!
Clearly, our society is currently obsessed with modern men and manliness, why? What do you think accounts for this scrutiny? Why is the evolution of a man’s gender identity being placed under a microscope?
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111 Comments on "Poll: Why is Our Society Obsessed with Modern Men and Manliness?"
For some reason society (the western liberal democracy) is obsessed with putting things into little, clearly-defines boxes: gay/straight, black/white, man/woman… Suddenly when women break out of the traditional gender-role, men can’t define themselves in opposition to women and femininity. So now we’re afraid that men aren’t real men, which apparently makes them feminine. And as everybody knows, femininity is the root to all evil. Our society still prefers “masculine” traits (boldness, bravery, aggressiveness, growth, domination etc) over “feminine” traits (caring, stability, empathy, conversation etc), which for some reason connotes bureaucracy and socialism (why are americans so afraid of socialism??).
Love it, Jacqueline.
A lot of macho Americans go for cheap laffs by dissing the French. Never mind that the French “saved our asses” at Yorktown and valiantly resisted the Germans in the bloodbath at Verdun while the US bided its time, disarmed and safe behind two oceans.
If you like freedom, I always say thank a Frenchman, and a Russian, too.
I think that we saw the metrosexual craze of the last several years (along with the idea that if you where a more ‘rugged” type you where in the wrong or there wasn’t a place for you at the table) and now the pendulum has swung back the other way. There is just the natural blowback after all the articles about metro sexuality. Rugged, tough guys have come back into fashion (I also think the uncertainty of the current world events [econemy crash, ect] has something to do with it, so now the “manly man” is popular)
It’s not.
In fact, less developed countries are often more obsessed with masculinity. You’ve just taken things out of a worldly context.
A real man is one who has the courage to be himself and stand up for what he believes in: even if that happens to be something that isn’t considered traditionally “manly”.
Really at the end of the day men don’t care about what this vain, vapid, nihilistic culture has to say about them, it’s what the messages this culture transmits and imprints on us while we’re young and developing that’s the problem.
Some of us are more subject to caring about this than others. But yeah most guys I know ran out of fawks to give a long time ago. They just keep being the men the other half of the world needs, instead of the ones the other half of the world wants. And the world keeps turning.
“Men are now being subjected to the same scrutiny and control that has characterized women’s lives, and I take it this is not a pleasant experience for a lot of people.”
I was under the impression that the goal was to end that alleged scrutiny of women, not to inflict it upon men. The whole “women have had to endure it for XXX length of time” response does’t really work, unless your willing to admit that payback, rather than equality, is the end goal.
I don’t think you read past the first line.
Why? Because I didn’t come to a conclusion or interpretation you wanted me to, it must be a failing on my part? I notice you haven’t tried to correct anything, instead simply dismissing my interpretation out of hand. Is payback the solution your aiming for, or is subjecting men to these issues a bad direction to take?
I also get the feeling that many of the male writers on GMP are trying to protect women from the so called ‘chauvinist douche bags’. I find this very belittling as if women cannot make their own decisions regarding sex and cant own up their preferences.
Part of a man’s role can be to protect women. If as feminists claim, there’s a rape culture (I think this is too strong,) then they may need protection sometimes. I think men can be involved in intervening with abusive men, sometimes as protection.
it’s about gettin’ good head, with their hands holding your weights.
I actually learned, I think, not to have sex with women I didn’t respect, or like, or trust, or whatever. Borderline personalities can be very sexy, but it’s not a good idea. My advice to women is not to go too alpha, particular if the man is stupid. Two of my students were severely beaten by guys like that.
Hank Vandenburgh
You must be a male feminist feeling ‘deserted’ by Raquel’s comment.
At least it shatters the myth being propagated by feminists that men need to become feminists in order to be sexually desirable to women, and the reason men fail to get sex is that they look at them as sex objects rather than as human beings
How about posting my riposte to silly-boy here?
GMP certainly is. I don’t know about the rest of the culture. Haven’t heard it discussed recently, even on the night us guys go out to dinner when our wives are at the book club.
Not my kids and their spouses, or their friends….
Maybe a real man is one for whom the question does not arise.
I think women’s sexual preferences don’t have to align with their gender politics.
I can be a feminist and still prefer to have sexual relationships with men who can be described as highly masculine…both in appearance and personality wise. We cannot help what we are attracted to and I dont think anyone should shame us.
Berish
All I can say is that you are not entitled to sex. But you must be a good human being and believe in true equality for women. This shouldnt be an option.
@Raquel
You’re have every right to your preferences and no, they don’t have to align with your politics. I don’t think you should be shamed for that, either. Unless I’m missing something, you respect men you won’t be sexual with and you’ll be sexual with men you don’t respect. Same contrasting feelings men sometimes face.
There’s a pithy name for that which has some pop culture referent. What is it now?
Sounds to me like she can’t respect a man and still be sexual with him. Maybe she’s got the modern-day feminine version of the madonna whore complex. Turnabout is fair play, I suppose.
Guys, don’t feel bad. I’m a girl and I’m confused too.
Whats your definition of truly good and honorable men? And why you think they are hard to find and see? Do you think majority of men are not good and honorable?
And sorry for many wrong grammar. Need to work on my english
She is referring to good men she finds attractive and who’d be willing to have relationships with her on terms she is ok with.
I think women should realize that when they say “where have all the good/nice men gone” its a bit misleading to men.
There’s a significant chance that women who experience an inability to find “good men” are terrified of finding them in places that feminist women loathe – like churches.
Despite the prolifery of malignant statements about “religious fanatics” and their supposed misogyny, Christian churches are actually in the “business” of molding good people- men included.
John,
I think a good woman is one who can bring the goodness out in others, and an honorable woman can bring the honor out in others. The same thing applies to men.
Erin
I think knowing your view of what a REAL WOMAN should be like, is important to assess whether or not you hold men and women to the same standards.
Every man who reads your comments on this thread will get the feeling that you hold men to much harsher standards of ‘goodness’ than you do women.
Hot, successful guys who are good and honorable (read: willing to be monogamous with her)
John/Tim,
I spent years in military with good, honorable (and some not-so-honorable men). Guess what? Most of them were not ‘successful’ in terms of great wealth or ‘hot’ in terms of metrosexuality. But I trusted my life with them and they trusted their lives with me. We shared stories, laughter, grit, fear, tears, blood, piss, and more importantly we broke-bread together. I would have married them all, if that were legal.
Beauty, attraction, good, and honorable is in the eye of the beholder.
Why is the evolution of a man’s gender identity being placed under a microscope?
Because it is being tampered with and has been being tampered with for a number of decades. Now it is reaching all new heights.
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John, a perfect reply. Well said.
I support everything you commented.
Haven’t been to this thread in a while. I think being a man means having character. Not the character others want us to have, but the one that we derive. I read on another thread that women were too “other directed” (mine and David Riesman’s term.) They used another term. So, at best, we’re inner directed– a good thing, particularly if everything is going to hell.
Hank, women are ‘other directed’ or as my brother says ‘girls are too much on the outside’. It’s part of our nature, women are relationship or people-oriented. No matter how much we try to be inner-directed like men, we can’t. I gave up years ago trying to ‘act more like a man’. After 8 years in the military, combat and in a male-dominated field, I realized men and women have some fundamental differences, that no amount of spec ops training is going to change.
Hank – by the way. Happy Belated Veteran’s Day. Thank you for your service and my salute to you.
Happy Veterans Day to you Joanie. Thank you for your service as well.
Hank, I remember the 1970s return to ‘traditional’ stuff…I was bit young, but I do remember. That was during the Mrs. Robinson Era. 🙂 Then 1980s everything took a different turn.
I’ve pulled up my bootstraps on my own my entire life and am inner-directed for the most part. I certainly won’t let ‘just anyone’ tell me what to do. But I notice that other-directed quality has always been under the surface.
As I age, I appreciate that quality now, because it serves to build relationships.
Or being dependable.
Wow… the Times is really starting to show its social stagnation. This isn’t the first time they have published such myopic pieces about gender, especially masculinity, either. I’m glad we have this site to talk through some of these issues.
Shall we counter with a little positivity? Give a relative or a guy friend a hug and let him know that he’s just right, like baby bear’s porridge.
on top of that, somehow a comment i posted on another silly article got posted here…. Wonderful.
As the writer of this piece on sexual polarity, and gender roles, (https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/me-jane-you-tarzan-the-politics-of-sexual-polarity/) and the highly debated A Call to the Sacred Masculine, it’s clear to me that men and women are confused. (my vote).
ok….
Men don’t like to be viewed as a luke-warm, droopy goo. Use words like handsome, and mean it, or don’t say cute belittling things like that at all. We are men, not toddlers.
Google Image search “Friend Zone Fiona”. That is how “good men” feel about being called “just right, like baby bear’s porridge.”
You can’t have it both ways, you know.
If you want the emotional support and concern about your delicate feelings the ladies enjoy, expect to endure the Infantilization that goes with it!
Ah. The eye for an eye routine. The fact women don’t like the infantilization ether doesn’t matter, right? The idea that men could get the concern and women could lose the infantilization, that couldn’t possibly be an option?
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I just want to point out that whatever else a “real man” may or may not do, he definitely does not apologize for being himself or worry about adhering to others’ standards.