The Sexless Father opens up about the times when his libido finds itself in conflict with the better angels of his nature.
This post originally appeared at The Sexless Father.
I came to an important realization today.
A friend, one of the very few people who knows my identity, wrote to say how impressed he was about my healthy attitude and interactions with The Mother. He told me that, despite his own better angels, unbalanced sex drives make him act “gross and coercive.”
And I felt totally called out.
Not, I think, because my friend meant to call me out. Without realizing it, he had described a side of this problem that I’ve been keeping secret from you. I want to see myself as the hero of my own story, and I know right from wrong. I do my best to take repeated sexual rejection in the healthy and productive ways I’ve described here. In all, I think I do a pretty good job.
But I created this blog anonymously in order to afford me the opportunity to be completely honest, and complete honesty is what I want to share. As much as I try to be a good man, sometimes I am terrible.
Example.
I am lying in bed with The Family. The Kids are sleeping on the outside edges, and The Mother and I are reading books side by side in the middle. She is deeply focused on her book. I am trying to follow the story of mine, but my my mind keeps jumping over to her body.
I know that if I tell her what I’m wanting – passionate necking, erotic touch, and sex – she will say no and that will end things. My fragile ego and wishful dick compose a plan. She will, I convince myself, be more receptive to body language.
I reach over and stroke her shoulder in a gesture that I hope is suggestive enough to be unmistakable while remaining chaste enough to maintain plausible deniability. She ignores me and keeps reading. But she doesn’t say no, so I cuddle in close and keep caressing. She is still reading, offering no sign that she is enjoying my touch. I kiss her neck and reach my hand around to cup one of her breasts. She breaks her stillness to push me away.
“Not tonight, okay? I’m tired.”
I roll away from her and sullenly return to my book.
“I was liking the gentle rubbing.”
I stare at the text and studiously don’t respond. We fall into mutual silence, and she returns to her reading. I try to read again, going over the same sentence again and again until my eyes wear a rut in the page. My mind is flashing, unbidden, to images of our sex. My mouth on her breasts. Her hands on my hips. Trying to read is useless; these pictures are so strong they are like fever dreams.
Once more I reach out and touch her. I say, “Honey?” She drops her eyes from her book once more, and they meet mine. I look back with hang dog eyes and touch her hip in a way I hope she will like. “The kids are asleep.”
I know she reads a thousand levels of subtext into this. “I’m really tired. And achy.” She says. “Not tonight, okay?”
“Okay.” I say, monosyllabically trying not to sound defeated, and failing. I pout for a minute, and my lips part to utter, “never tonight.”
Without waiting for a response, I crawl over The Boy and out of bed. I close the door more forcefully than I need to. When I return in an hour or so, she will be asleep and I will be so wracked with guilt and shame that I will have to put my back to her. When I wake up, we will say nothing about this night, as we have said nothing about so many nights – and afternoons and mornings – that have come before and will most likely come again.
What It Feels Like To Be Terrible.
I know that I did everything I could to make The Mother feel bad and guilty for saying no. And although I feel terrible, although I have been terrible, I still – and this is the most terrible thing of all – I still feel angry. I feel as though I am the victim of a great injustice. I feel – as I have acted – petulant.
I do not want this.
My entitled, pouting bullshit is something I’ve tried for years to carve out of myself. I feel, today, that I have a pretty good handle on the behavior. Better, anyway, than I have had in years.
But the feelings; anger, resentment, entitlement, shame, fear of rejection, inadequacy – these are still strong with me. These feelings surface every time I suggest sex and The Mother refuses. My feelings are not her responsibility. But even knowing this, when these feelings start my mind begins playing a well worn tape loop that starts,”If only she would just…”
Maybe one day I will get to the point that I will believe the things I already know to be true. That my feelings are my responsibility. That it is okay when The Mother doesn’t want to have sex. That there is nothing wrong with me sexually. That we’re both doing the best that we can in a tricky situation. That things will get better. Maybe if I learn to believe these things enough, the demons will get out of my head. Maybe I will sluff off all the world’s ideas about what it means to be a good man, ideas about being a thoroughly irresistible sexual dynamo, ideas that echo from a subconscious cavern so deep that I can’t clean it out.
I don’t want anyone else’s ideas telling me untrue stories about who I am or what sex means.
But until I can totally expel these thoughts, I can at least be honest with The Mother about what is in my head and in my heart. I can let her know the ways that our sexual problems put my higher brain in conflict with my subconscious self. I can strive to keep control of my actions with my thinking brain, and I can be deeply sorry when my feeling heart lashes out with a hurt that none of us can fully understand.
In short, sometimes I am not a good man.
Sometimes I am terrible. I am trying to be better.
Photo—X-Ray Specs from Shutterstock
I’ve been there. You have to leave her. I know you like to think of yourself as nobly for the sake of your family but the truth of the matter is you are setting a terrible example for your children. Kids will learn their attitudes about relationships from you. If you are unfulfilled they will learn that is okay too. You need to break the cycle. You need to teach your children that it is okay to get what you want in life and if your partner doesn’t care about your needs enough to lift a finger s/he isn’t a… Read more »
You guys, this is a fascinating discussion. I don’t want to reply point by point, or try to unpack everything that’s come up in this conversation. I don’t have all night. What I’ll say (and what you’ll get if you read more of my story at http://sexlessfather.wordpress.com) is that while my wife, The Mother, doesn’t want to have sex with me, she really wants to want to. She tells me she wants to want to. It’s something inside that won’t click for her. So we’re talking it out, and writing it out, and doing our best to work it out.… Read more »
I hope that works out for you. I feel like I’m reading my own story, except for the attachment parenting part. like your wife, mine also “wanted to want.” It took two decades before we realized what that truly meant to us. I always took it to mean she wanted to want sex, but what it really meant is she wanted to desire me, but in the end she just wasn’t that into me. I had been “friend-zoned” a year into our marriage (probably before we got married, actually, but she was more willing to fake-it-til-you-make-it before kids) but she… Read more »
“We believe that we have the capacity to do this thing well together again, as we once did.”
Shorter version of my rambling response above: so did we, my friend, so did we. good luck and take care.
“What I’ll say (and what you’ll get if you read more of my story at http://sexlessfather.wordpress.com) is that while my wife, The Mother, doesn’t want to have sex with me, she really wants to want to. She tells me she wants to want to. It’s something inside that won’t click for her. So we’re talking it out, and writing it out, and doing our best to work it out. ” My problem with all of this is that you seem to have taken the whole responsbility for this situation. Your doing all the work and your article is about how… Read more »
My question is, is she actively doing anything else on the matter, besides telling him that “she really wants to want to”?
Besides, I don’t think he should be “deeply sorry” for showing his feelings of reject and disappointment.
Does she always take a negative answer by him with a gracious smile…?
I’m going to post a video as a reply to the comment I’m about to make. What is so horrible about your libido that whenever you feel defeated, you obliterate your own self-respect? Take two hits for her one? Not only do you feel bad for being turned down, you also feel bad for showing it. This is a perfect plan to lead your mind down a rabbit hole, because you’re essentially doubling your frustration every nice you want some lovemaking and she doesn’t. You have no right more right to beat yourself up for wanting sex than you do… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ygq7F4TX4
I had these same feelings in my sexless relationship as well. I think what frustrated me more was that there was absolutely no middle ground with him. I had to give up sex period, end of story. Our sex life was dictated by when he was in the mood, period end of story. There was no discussion about it. I couldn’t help that when I touched him I was turned on more than the once every 2 months sex session we had. So for me it took sitting down and fully realizing that there are 2 people in the relationship.… Read more »
Neighbor, I really do feel bad for you and hope you get this all worked out… at least stop feeling so bad about yourself. It took me a long time to come to terms with libido and being “good,” whatever that means too, but it’s something you’ve got to work out for yourself and a fumbling fool like me really can’t help you with it too much. I mean, I read this and really didn’t see you at all as the villainous creature you seemed to portray yourself as… mostly the old Johnny Cash song “the Beast in Me,” and… Read more »
As a woman, I feel like I need to give this author and a lot of men here a clue. There is nothing sexy about being touched by a man in a way that immediately and clearly transmits his agenda and expectations for sex. Often, a woman’s libido thrives on tentativeness, open-ended exploration, and gradual build up – elements that often hallmark the first sexual experiences between a couple and then fly right out the window when sex becomes routine and expected. I think this is a really difficult concept for men to grasp and then execute well, because, most… Read more »
Everyone has an agenda raindizzle, which is usually why conflict occurs. Guilt is for stopping agendas running amok, but I do have to be aware that I actually have an agenda for guilt to work.
“As a woman, I feel like I need to give this author and a lot of men here a clue. There is nothing sexy about being touched by a man in a way that immediately and clearly transmits his agenda and expectations for sex. ” The expectation of sex is sexy. And usually if a women likes you then you lead and she follows. That means you initiate sex and she gets turned on! That is the way it is supposed to work. I have never had to work for sex like this. To me having sex is like dancing,… Read more »
“I don’t think his wife likes or respects him.” That is what it really is all about. She no longer wants to have sex with him. That is OK. However, what is inexcusable is for he not to be honest and tell him why she is no longer interested. What I have learned about women is if she likes you and is into you, she will fuck you, period. If she does not like you or is no longer into you, you’re done. So, there is nothing he can do in this situation. She will NEVER change. I elected to… Read more »
But, if a woman is horny and is into you, she will take the initiative.
True. I just experienced that one a few weeks ago. She flatly asked when was I gonna kiss her to which I said she could flip it and kiss me first….and with no hesitation she did.
Hey, good on you… always awesome when that happens! One of my current FWB arrangements is a little more aggressive and open than the average young lady and I love it… it takes some of the mysterious pressure out of it for me.
Raindizzle: “we are highly seduce-able creatures”
I think you may be generalising.
No means no. Ergo, “Not tonight” means not tonight.
Here’s a clue for you. If you expect, on the one hand that your husband or boyfriend is going seduce and wheedle and tentatively explore the open-ended possibility of having sex every time he wants it… expect on the other hand that at some point he may run into or go looking for someone who’s more enthusiastic.
Failing that, he’s may simply end up a lot less interested in you and your relationship.
Yah, I’ve been in that type of relationship before. Tried to make it work for over a year and it… didn’t age well, to say the least. We both sought circumstances better suited to our personalities and needs and are much happier that way.
“Often, a woman’s libido thrives on tentativeness, open-ended exploration, and gradual build up….” This is only true for a woman’s husband or long-term partners. Herein lies the problem. Women have a different set of rules for different men. While they are single and dating, they get horny and engage in casual sex as well as booty calls. NO WARM UP NECESSARY. However, after marriage women start imposing all these bullshit requirements for sex. Many as you suggested. So, in essence there is a much higher standard imposed on her husband that was not imposed on her prior lovers. This really… Read more »
When his wife mentioned the gentle rubbing, she was pretty clearly telling him he can continue to meet her needs, but that he shouldn’t expect her to meet his. If you read his other posts, she seems pretty damn selfish.
The only thing I see wrong here is trying to have sex while the kids are in bed.
I think it’s quite brave of you to write about this, even under anonymity. The scene you described has happened countless times in my marriage, and it never stops being miserable. I wish I could tell you how to fix it, but I haven’t found anything that works yet. I will say this: Being a male feminist should not mean that you act like a doormat for women. Men like us should recognize women as equals, and partners–not as our authority. You should treat her as your equal, but you should have the personal dignity to expect the same respect.… Read more »
You do need to stop guilting yourself though. You’re not a bad person for wanting to fuck your wife! But you’re in a hole – sorry, no innuendo intended – and you need to find a way out of it that preserves your integrity before it implodes under the pressure.
It’s a tough call, I see that. Your situation is exactly why I’ll never marry or breed. Vows are dangerous things.
It seems as if there are other underlying issues embedded within your marriage other than the lack of sexual contact. I’m left to assume they aren’t enough to dissolve your partnership (or are you staying together ‘for the kids’?) . It’s difficult to believe that this lack of intimacy doesn’t translate negatively in other ways during your children’s (and your) daily interactions with The Mother, so what is it you’re holding onto? I’m not in any way suggesting this is reason enough to jump the proverbial ship, but it’s worth diving into.
Women always assume there are other underlying issues when there is little to no sex in a marriage. I bristle when I hear this nonsense! As a man who spent over a decade in a sexless marriage, I can honestly and objectively say the problem was squarely my ex wife. She just did not want to have sex with me any longer. There was nothing I could do to change things. I tried. Unlike many husbands, I cooked, cleaned the house, help take care of our son,…..You name it. I just believe she lost interest. Women need to stop blaming… Read more »
I kind of agree with you, except with the caveat that there can be medical issues that really put a damper on a woman’s sex drive in certain cases. E.g., taking anti-depressants, or having something that’s causing pain or discomfort “down there.” but you are right that ifyou’ve ruled out all other causes, and the situation continues for a long time, it could very well be that your wife simply does not like sex, or does not like having sex with YOU. In which case, my advice would be to get divorced. Yes, men can get screwed financially in divorce… Read more »
” Unlike many husbands, I cooked, cleaned the house, help take care of our son,…..You name it. I just believe she lost interest.” I don’t think any of this actually makes you any sexier. If you were a SAHD in a marriage and your full-time working wife, without changing anything else about herself, cooked, cleaned, and did more childcare, would you really find your wife any sexier? Sure, you might feel better about her as a person, but would that raw animal passion really come flooding back? I doubt it. IMHO this kind of “solution” is looking in the wrong… Read more »
The usual woman’s excuse for a low libido, though, is that the man doesn’t join in on the cooking, cleaning, and child-rearing. A woman’s libido is one of the most important things to keep consistent, the libidos have to match up for a monogamous relationship to even work, otherwise, there will be consistent sexual tension, which builds up over time. So women claim to have really high libidos that are repressed. Something that I agree with, partially out of hope. When we ask why, they give reasons, when we follow these reasons, they say there are still more things blocking.… Read more »
Comes from a few things, I thing. Disdain for male sexuality is definitely part of it. Society’s attitude to motherhood doesn’t help either, in terms of how women are supposed to be perfect mothers at all times, while other roles – such as being a good spouse and good lover are completely forgotten. A lot of it, though, comes down to the fact that everyone everywhere, men and women alike, downplay and ignore sex and its importance to a LTR, when in reality if the sex ain’t there the relationship is basically just not going to survive in any kind… Read more »
Yes. We need to de-emphasize both the mother as the exclusive source of care, and the father as the prime responsibility for income. Men usually work jobs they don’t want at hours they don’t want because society and themselves hold them primarily responsible for any economic struggles the family faces. A man is more likely to cut back on his personal life to gain income. If we reduce the woman’s exclusive responsibility to the kids, and reduce the man’s exclusive responsibility to income, you can raise kids with decent income, better life quality, and without constantly butting heads about whose… Read more »
Very true for many people.
(although actually not the problem here, obviously)
Forgive me for being blunt. I’ve read Athol Kay, and I think he’s a horrible mysoginistic boor. The furthest thing in the world from a good man. And apologist for objectification of the worst kind. No, I don’t think any of his ideas are a solution in the slightest.
I don’t think Athol’s misogynistic. Misanthropic, maybe – he certainly doesn’t have a very lofty or elevated view of human nature. But I’m not outright going to say he’s wrong, and right or wrong in what he believes, he (and his wife) seem pretty content.
As Slartibartfast put it, “I’d rather be happy than right any day”.
The problem is entirely in how you’re framing this stuff, with your mindset, and your attitude. There is a way out of this morass.
First and foremost, you don’t need to make excuses for your desires. You don’t need to shame yourself for having a healthy male libido. The rest of the issues derive from this single source. There is a way forward.
You need to get onto Athol Kay’s site, read his book, read his archives. You have google at your fingertips, let them do the walking.