Gordon Pearson responds to Mark McCormack.
After sharing Mark’s article with my friends on Facebook, I got into a lengthy ‘discussion’ with a female friend of mine. She and I discussed the points of the article and debated the point Mark was trying to make. For a while, I simply didn’t realize we were arguing about completely different things, being that our male and female brains were viewing the subject from entirely different angles. She was arguing against cheating; I was arguing for open relationships. In the end, we found that our views were very similar, but our focus was very different.
We agreed that “consenting adults should be able to have whatever type of relationship works best for them … open, monogamous, multiple partners, etc.” But she insisted that the article “supports sexist, negative societal attitudes.” Basically, she felt that the author supports cheating, or more specifically, male cheating.
I don’t think he is supporting sexism, I think he is using men as a reference point (seeing as he is a man and it’s from his point of view). He did not say that only men should be free to have sex with multiple partners. (I went back and re-read to see if I missed something along those lines.) That, to me, would mean that women should be allowed the opportunity to have multiple partners, if they so choose, without being judged. (I agree with equal opportunity, lol.)
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Because of this, I first need to dispute the title of the article Mark McCormack wrote. I argue against cheating, but I support open relationships (if a couple chooses that). Which isn’t me screaming, “I want an open relationship.” I don’t know if I could even handle an open relationship. But, I think that option comes down to the relationship you have with your partner. I’ve known people who love each other very much but both view sex as something that doesn’t need to stay between the two of them.
The article wasn’t really about the subject to which it opened up my thought patterns, but it certainly was thought-provoking. Everyone wants intimacy at some point. The problem lies in what each of us designate as intimate. I feel there are various forms of intimacy. We can be intimate with friends considering the thoughts and feelings we share with them, and we can be intimate with lovers considering the emotions and experiences we share.
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So, are all forms of sex intimate? Are passionate sex and romantic sex meant to be valued on the same scale? Can we hold them in a different regard? If kissing in different ways can mean different things, can having sex in different ways be equally viewed as having different meanings that shouldn’t be judged indiscreetly?
I don’t believe men “require” multiple sex partners; it’s a matter that they “desire’ multiple sex partners, even if only subconsciously. It’s more of a desire for men to think they can have another woman. I think the movie Hall Pass did a good job of providing an example of that. Therein a therapist explained to the two wives that men need to learn “how good they have it” by trying to go out and get another woman, only to learn they really don’t have what it takes and then come crawling back. The problem was that the men found that they could have other women, but still chose to come back to their wives instead. I think this would result in a split among men, not all would come back without “scoring.” But also in that movie, one of the wives took the opportunity to sleep with another man and regretted it.
I would agree with Mark that as love grows, (sometimes) sex becomes less frequent. I agree with this due to personal experience and observations of friends’ relationships. My friend said it best, “People often have other demands on their time and attention, which take precedence for at least a little while (children, careers, financial responsibilities, caring for aging parents, etc.).” But Mark does not address the fact that sexual activity is often replaced with other rewarding activities. Even without each of the reasons she stated above (the most common), frequency diminished. Still, I think it would make sense to say that in many instances, sex is replaced with other types of intimacy, other hobbies, or activities that they can both be passionate about and enjoy and use to strengthen their bond.
For the purposes of an article, I can understand why the author would generalize a statement such as “the sexual need of men and women are inherently different.” In most speaking terms, he’s addressing the societal view of men vs. women. Society portrays men as sex-crazed women chasers. An accepted view is one in which women are portrayed as sexually conservative and/or prude, it is often unacceptable for a woman to have multiple partners. (A “nice” double standard, huh?) Another societal standard to use as a point of reference would be to assume that a man is less of a man for not having multiple partners before getting married, and then in turn calling a woman any number of insults for having multiple partners prior to getting married. Accepted standards are just the reference point of the argument.
The needs of any individual vary for as many people you question. I think it would be impossible to say that any two people have exactly the same desires or expectations from any relationship. But we seek out people who have reasonably similar desires. I know men who are less sexually active simply due to a lack of desire or libido; they may simply just be satisfied with occasional sex with their partner. On that same note, I know several women who have an incredible sexual appetite; some wish they could seek more outside their relationships, while others simply “take care of it” themselves. These examples are against the portrayed societal norm. However, they are probably equally as likely as any other example.
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The excuses he made for cheating were a very poor argument. You cannot love someone if you cheat on them! Love is tantamount on respect. If you cheat, you do not respect your partner. If you do not respect them, you cannot possibly love them.
To me, his article was just a proposition of a possible upcoming, acceptable counterculture, the acceptance of people who do not heed the “norm.” People who wish to be able to have a lasting emotional relationship with one individual, while not being judged for continuing to have sexual encounters outside of their romantic relationship. Younger generations are already allowing themselves to be single longer and hold less criticism for people who have regular “hook-ups.”
Read Mark McCormack’s original article here.
—Photo epsos/Flickr
To me sex is between to people that love and care for each other. A mean if take away all contraception how many women would have kids with so many different men. And STD’S would spread like wild fire we are meant to be monogamous. And to try and justify cheating or a affair is stupid the person could leave you and let you find someone hold so you can’t. And some affairs’s have wasted years of someone’s life and and it’s disgusting. the thing about cheaters is they what to cheat and you be monogamous with them if they… Read more »
Sex is sex regardless of how it’s done or what emotional state one might be in. It’s a action. Whatever else is going on between the ears or in the heart, penetration is penetration. The world today has completely destroyed it’s sacredness. Most people use sex today as a way to fulfill their own desires. They don’t use it to strengthen relationships. It is an action that is ONLY to be performed between a husband and a wife, legally and lawfully married, who honor one another with complete devotion, both physically and emotionally. Is it okay to cheat, no. Is… Read more »
I like to think that when you swap fluids with someone, you are taking into your own body something, DNA, viruses, etc. from every person they swapped fluids with prior. In other words, you are accepting a little piece of every person they ever had sex with, and every person those people had sex with, etc. The blood of many now flows through your veins. I don’t know if this is scientifically accurate, but I suspect that this idea, coupled with a quick Google search for current rates of infection via STDs among the population, would put this myriad partners… Read more »
Well, you won’t like this. I’ve experimented with monogamy (my usual and current state), open-polyamory, and “don’t ask; don’t tell.” If one must cheat (and I have quite a few times,) don’t ask-don’t tell works best.
Open polyamory is tedious because of all the speculation about what the other partner is doing. I don’t like the rational discussions about it (which mask hurt usually.)
Why do you cheat so much on your partner Henry?
And if she was cheating on you, would you want to know? Or would you prefer she kept it to herself and cheated on you but came home to you?
I’m not, and have not for a long time. But if I were with a woman who had other lovers (or lover,) I wouldn’t want to know. I don’t use the word “cheat,” note?
Sex has nothing to do with the ties of “LOVE & CARING” between ONE man and ONE woman. It’s much more simple than all of you english lit people would like to infer it is. Here it is. The self imposed “rules” of what is right and wrong is man made and passed down from relegious doctrine (aka, the bible for instance) to distinguish what people should feel guilty on or what they shouldn’t. This is the inherent definition or guildline that has been passed down from generation to generation of what constitutes people to say something is “justified” or… Read more »
Cheating is a word that implies dishonesty. If you say to your partner ” I need more than you can give, I am going to get it somewhere else” that is not cheating. If you say to your partner “Honey I am working late” and your banging the girl in the office that is cheating. The point is not about sex.. its about being strong enough to be honest.
I disagree jut because you’re being honest doesn’t mean it doesn’t count as cheating. If say I’m with my boyfriend and I see someone and tell my boyfriend I’m going to go kiss them that doesn’t mean it’s not cheating. Also, imho an open relationship while it may be consensual is still cheating your relationship and you can’t fully connect yourself to the other person.
Lying and cheating are wrong, and cheating on your partner is a very hurtful thing to do. There’s nothing that would ever fully justify having an affair, given the effects that it has. And yet…And yet…. Looking at an affair in the context of one’s whole life means there may be positive things that come out of an affair, even for the person who was cheated on. A long time ago, a woman broke up our long-term committed relationship because she fell in love with someone else. I didn’t find out the full extent of her affair until after our… Read more »
This is a strange discussion, mostly because it conflates an argument about the morality of cheating with a argument about whether or not mono or poly is that “natural” state for men (and women). Now, I agree that cheating is a lousy thing to do. It’s just not a way to treat your partner. I also agree that at least for some people, monogamy is just not a very good fit. However, while that might explain the desire to cheat (which is what I believe Eric is doing in this research), it does in no way justify or excuse cheating.… Read more »
absolutely agree
Interesting. So, all I have to do to be a loving partner is stick around? What else can I get away with? Can I demean my partner, insult them, manipulate them, or throw punches? Can I put them in a choke hold if they try to leave me, because I love them so very, very much? I think we are working with two definitions of love. In my book, if you love someone, you don’t behave in any way that shows complete disregard for your partner’s feelings and well being. And, betraying their trust in such a devastating way, certainly… Read more »
I think this is a good point. Those men probably thought they loved their partners. But they also wanted something they knew they couldn’t have if they were honest about it. So they created a justification; I love her and don’t want to hurt her by discussing non monogamy. So long as she doesn’t find out, all is well. Trouble is, then you create a relationship where you are constantly hiding a part of yourself from your partner. It’s a dishonor. At best it is an immature kind of love, and one that serves their own needs without truly connecting… Read more »
Speaking to the relationship that is founded on hiding parts of the self from the other… while this is an immature relationship, it can be a both a provocation to reciprocity from the spouse and/or a lifelong pattern of inability to connect, and so is a protective device. Rather than risk direct connection to the nearby loved one, it’s safer to plunge into a cheater relationship, as that type of relationship is inherently partial and limited, as are all romantic compulsion relationships. There is no reality base involving day-to-day challenges in cheating relationships, so the opportunity to ‘unhide’ portions of… Read more »
Totally agree with you. It is devastating if you have the compulsion to be with others do that but tell your partner so they can find someone who really love them, otherwise you are just being selfish.
I realize that I am entering into dangerous waters by commenting on a post about my book. I’m particularly aware that I could be at this for days. So I’ll just simply say, in response to Gordon’s emphatic assertion that, “You cannot love someone if you cheat on them!” Gordon, if this is true, it implies that somewhere between perhaps 60 and 86 percent of men do not love their partners. Gordon, it’s rather presumptuous of you to tell others whether they love their partners or not. Take a high profile case like Bill Clinton. Godon, are you 100% sure… Read more »
I will have to agree that its not my place to tell someone else that they do not love their partner, but you know that saying about opinions… I would have to say that our views and understanding of love could only be very different. I think there are varying degrees of ‘love’, many of which would be (to me) more accurately described as strong emotional connections or a deep caring for someone. An example would be to describe how as teenagers, we are able to yell to our parents/friends that we love someone so deeply that we want to… Read more »
I agree. Excluding open relationships, love cannot exist where there is no respect. No doubt the cheater could have loved his/her partner at one point, but you cannot justify loving someone and then disrespecting that person. Cheating is a naturally selfish act. Just because you beg to have your partner back doesn’t mean you love that person because it is still a selfish act in the first place. They’re not getting something out of cheating, so they go back to their partners to get that something back–not even necessarily because they hurt that person. You may think you love that… Read more »
My personal feeling is that a lot of men who cheat simply want to have their cake and eat it too. I can’t say whether they “love” their wives or girlfriends. I think in different cases, men may beg for forgiveness because they really love their wife/girlfriend, or simply because they love the security and perks of a relationship, don’t want to lose the house, don’t want to lose contact with their children etc. If a man cheated on me, I wouldn’t feel loved, I’d feel disrespected. I agree that monogamy is probably not “natural” in that, as animals, our… Read more »
This article is on point.
Hey Gordon, I enjoyed reading your response – thanks for it. There’s just a few comments I’d like to make which I think contribute to the debate. 1) Reading this article and the comments on mine, I’m struck by the presumption of heterosexuality. Eric’s book (and it’s very definitely Eric’s argument that I’m supporting) interviews both heterosexual and gay men. The comment your friend makes about sexism completely falls if we’re talking about a gay couple. If one were then to argue that it was fine for gay men but not heterosexual women, that would have to rely on understandings… Read more »
My friend took great caution in addressing me, she thought I might lose respect for her for having differing opinions, but I welcome challenging discussions and differing point of views; just as I enjoyed your and Eric’s response. My views are always evolving and expanding, so I’m always willing to listen. My article was largely based on excerpts from my conversation with her. 1) I wasn’t intentionally excluding homosexuals. I didnt feel your article was sexist. 2) Seeking to understand why men or anyone cheats is a valid effort, in my opinion. Men wanting extra-dyadic sex, “choosing” to cheat to… Read more »
I think this article make a good clarification between agreeing to an open relationship vs. lying/cheating. In an open relationship there can’t be cheating because both parties have an understanding of what possible relationships the other person will have. In the lying/cheating option, one person doesn’t have enough respect for the other to: a. express his/her true intentions/desires, and b. realise that if the other person does not want that kind of relationship, it is callous and unfair to put them in one against their wishes. Love and respect are inseparable, and you just can’t lie to/cheat on someone you… Read more »
I have to completely disagree with you Mark on the idea that we have a “cultural compulsion to be in monogamous relationships”. Perhaps that was true in 1950 but it most certainly is not true within current culture. If anything else, the media and entertainment industry seem to go against anything having to do with commitment, monogamy, self control or denying oneself any form of pleasure for the good of their other relationships and seems to be more centered around self pleasure at any cost. The idea of entitlement and what people “deserve” has grown quite a lot in recent… Read more »
So, I sort of agree with you Erin, that there is a growing sense of entitlement building in our culture and it is, seemingly, connected to the “fast food nation” culture we have going. Want a car/computer/phone/meal? no problem, get a loan, credit etc. that being said, I don’t think our culture promotes real sustaining pleasure in things in that culture. We love violence and consumption, but I don’t think that means we love pleasure. Not real pleasure anyway. Hot chicks with big boobs is kabuki pleasure. Blue Valentine gets an NC17 but Saw gets an R. And you had… Read more »
Agree with your basic statement that while an agreed-upon open relationship is one thing, love and cheating don’t go together. But I don’t think you mean “Love is tantamount on respect.” “Tantamount” means “equal” or “equivalent”–it doesn’t make sense to say “Love is equal on respect.” What I think you might mean is that respect is an essential component of love–and I’m with you there.
Thanks for the correction, I was definitely trying to say that you cannot have love without respect.
We are in an unprecedented time in history in that we have immediate access to info 24/7 and can literally watch social change happen. This is disconcerting on a good day. Much of the reaction to that post comes out of that disconcertedness, that feeling that everything is up in the air and things will fall apart unless we hold onto more traditional values. But values change all the time. Social mores change constantly as I posted on another article, the one you reference here. Sorry for all the cut and pasting, but it’s relevant I think. “I’m not sure… Read more »
Society constantly changes with pop culture, so I’ll be amazed to see the world my grandchildren grow up in. As people become more aware of the non-threatening sub-cultures out there and accepting of the many different types of sexuality people practice, we grow as a society. I support people broadening their scope of the world through new experiences and more accepting attitudes. I feel that if its not harming others, what you choose to do with your body and emotions is really a choice you have to make. I know of many things that I enjoy that others do not,… Read more »