Neely Steinberg loves men. Below, she shares a list of qualities, actions, and moments that remind her why.
Recently I wrote an article for the Good Men Project about hook-up culture, in which Hugo Schwyzer and I disagreed about the effects of casual sex. It gained the attention of Susan Walsh, author of the blog Hooking Up Smart. She wrote a post about our contrasting opinions, and offered her thoughts as well. The comments section within her post grew quickly—as of today there are more than 1,000 responses. Reading through the feedback, I was struck by the disillusionment and disappointment among men with the content on the Good Men Project, a site whose very purpose is to bring issues of modern manhood to the forefront of national discussion.
One commenter on Walsh’s site wrote: “…the good men project inevitably implies that men are not basically good by default, but work has to be put in to making them that way, or in finding the exceptions who are.” Others agreed with the general sentiment that many of this site’s articles unfairly start with the basic premise that something is inherently wrong with men and men thus need to be socially engineered to become, well, good.
It was with this unfortunate perception in mind that I set out to create a list of things that I love about men. Pure and simple. No talk of feminism or slut shaming or gender depictions in the media or rape culture here—just an unadulterated tribute to men, a panegyric, a compilation of reasons to be thankful for the male species, in ways both big and small, superficial and profound, personal and professional. They are in no particular order, the creation of my stream of consciousness. I could have gone on for hours, but it’s my hope that you, Good Men Project readers, will add to this list, so that anyone who visits this site will see how much we appreciate and adore men and what they bring to our lives and the world. We can return to the heavier debates tomorrow. For now, let’s have a Kumbaya moment. Leave your reasons in the comments section, and let’s see what we can come up with together!
Here are mine:
- I love when a man puts his hand on the small of a woman’s lower back, as if to say, I’m here for you if you need me.
- I love when a man wipes away a woman’s tears or pushes a strand of her hair away from her face, tucking it lovingly behind her ear.
- I love how millions of men go off to work every day and then come home after long work hours to share in the housework and child-rearing.
- I love how men contribute hundreds of millions of dollars every year to charities in the U.S. and across the globe.
- I love when a man makes us feel like women.
- I love when a man waits patiently inside an elevator to let all the ladies out first.
- I love how a man who would go to the ends of the earth for a woman he loves.
- I love how a man who will rub his partner’s feet at the end of the day even though he’s had a hard day at work too.
- I love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives in service to our country and to protect us all.
- I love being Little Spoon.
- I love the way a man looks into his child’s eyes and loses himself.
- I love that men’s various discoveries throughout the ages (scientific, mathematical, medical, etc.) have made our lives easier.
- I love the way a man runs into the ocean like maniac.
- I love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he leans over to pick up something heavy.
- I love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.
- I love when a man tells a woman how lucky he is to have found her.
- I love the way a man takes a woman’s delicate hand, brings it to his lips, and kisses it gently, showing how much he adores her.
- I love when a man chows down on his food, as if only a 9.0 Richter Scale earthquake could shake him from his glorious feast.
- I love how a man in love thinks of his partner’s sexual pleasure before his own.
- I love a man who will do the jobs that most of us would never consider. Sewer inspector, anyone?
What do you have to add?
About Neely Steinberg
Authenticity is a good theme here. I think that many MRA’s see some individual feminists as not being Authentic. For example they say they want men to be able to cry and show emotion but in reality they still want their man to be “a rock” and not show emotion in a crisis.
Conversely, some MRA’s will say it is important for a modern man to cry and show emotion but they still refrain from showing emotion or crying in front of their female partners. Authenticity is important in our lives. I also call it Integrity.
Yes, definitely! I feel more willing to be a guy and sensitive when it is actually acceptable.
Many girls want guys to open up but don’t realize that means the guy will also have weaknesses being displayed. They like openness but hate weakness. Guys try to open to each other, but shut each other out when they aren’t intimidating enough.
It’s kinda retarded how we’re all acting with each other. There should be more posts about the opposite gender like what’s above. I love doing the cute things, the cuddling, the pillow talk, etc. That doesn’t mean I’m not a hardass when I need to be. That means I don’t need to be a hardass all that much.
But now it seems like women are masculinizing. Thhey’re starting to try to intimidate each other and guys. But being an unintimdating woman seems to be politically-incorrect somehow. So it screws over the millions of guys who don’t want to play some stupid chest-puffing game. because now the whole planet hates them. “you want non-power-hungry girls?” “some girl is doing better than you? you’re a deadbeat.” It’s a twisted way in which Feminism flipped upon itself by not taking men’s psychology into consideration. They expected better respect AND treatment of women. So if a girl is doing worse than the guy, it’s some sort of repression. If a girl is doing better, the guy is a deadbeat.
Hi, Weber.
For me, your concluding paragraph, above, articulates my frustration and dissatisfaction with contemporary feminism. I feel that its overriding theme is giving women a socially acceptable license to mimic men and traditionally male views, habits and manners. Of course, any woman who prefers such values has every right to them!
In my view, however, what is popularly called “feminism” today can do more and also better by focusing, instead, on recognizing and also valuing a range of experiences and ways of being and doing that are considerably beyond and different from the already-dominant, traditionally male paradigm, which seems to include some philosophy of “You must be down so I can be up.”
At least, that was my sense when I read your remarks . . . ” being an unintimdating woman seems to be politically-incorrect somehow. So it screws over the millions of guys who don’t want to play some stupid chest-puffing game. because now the whole planet hates them. ‘you want non-power-hungry girls? ‘some girl is doing better than you? you’re a deadbeat.’ It’s a twisted way in which Feminism flipped upon itself by not taking men’s psychology into consideration. They expected better respect AND treatment of women. So if a girl is doing worse than the guy, it’s some sort of repression. If a girl is doing better, the guy is a deadbeat.’”
Liz
Do we really need this mindless woman validating what men do? http://goo.gl/obiC
1, 2, 3,4, 6, 7, 8,9,15, 16, 17, 19, 20 can all be boiled down to, “I love how a man defers to my female privilege and kisses my ass.
You know what I would love? I would love it if you would tell me one obligation that you have to this man that you can’t get out of. Just one thing that you have to do for the rest of your life that is enforced by law or custom and you can’t escape on a whim?
You claim to love men but I believe you love a man as a farmer loves a mule. We are beasts of burden put on this earth to make your life easier. And so long as we pull the weight, take the risks, make you “feel like a woman” you will “love” us and the moment we fail at any of it or you just get bored you will decide you don’t love us and off you’ll go to the lawyers and show us what you really think about us.
I’ll be waiting for that response on your obligation to him.
@jeanvaljean,
I’ve noticed this before on other sites about men. The moment a woman tries to finally say something positive about men, it’s twisted around into being something negative. This post is a whole lot better when men start talking about what they like about women-which boils down to liking breasts, ass, and legs. I just want to be like you want that regular or crispy? because it sounds more like they are ordering at KFC than talking about females. A lot of men seem to think women are put on this earth to cater to their sexual so called needs, so how about you stop complaining about this well-intentioned post and we call it even???
(sorry about grammar)
On a point of fact, sociologists have figured out what parts of women’s bodies men do tend to look at most and the top one isn’t breasts, ass or legs, it’s her eyes. I think after that it is a few other parts of her face – mouth, hair line. I dunno if that helps you or not. As far as I can see a person is not their eyes any more than their breasts. But it seems like looking at eyes is something women do too so I guess it’s harder to characterise that as “objectifying”.
Oh yes, of course, when a woman FINALLY says something she thinks is positive about men, we are all supposed to go ga-ga with appreciation.
I’ll pass.
Personally, I don’t have things that I love about men or women in that way, just qualities I admire in human beings. And I don’t trust anyone who puts an adjective in front of the word man or woman. Yes, that refers to the name of this website.
@alice
The man asked a perfectly legit question, so how about answering it for a change.
I would really like to hear the response on that one.
Alice, you have a pretty narrow view of what you believe men want from women. Perhaps you could qualify the attributes that women possess that men should be looking for. What special qualities do women offer men in a relationship? And no you can’t mention cooking, cleaning, sex, or child care because that would be sexist. What else ya got?
While you are at it perhaps you could also answer Jean Valjean’s more salient question and name for us the obligations that women have towards men in our society.
I’ve spent a few minutes thinking about this question and I cannot think of a single obligation that women have towards men. So it begs the question, “If women have no obligations towards men then why should men be expected to do anything for women?”
Perhaps the pertinent “obligations” occur between individuals, rather than between large, nameless groups, identified only by sex.
Jeanvaljean’s post uses more strident language than I would use, but I think there is a good point at the heart of it. Most of the list about what she appreciates about men has to do with being nice to women, or defines goodness in terms of deference to women. As a man I tend to admire independence, telling the truth even when it’s not popular, and using direct communication. Those are the admirable things that I would add. At least, I tend to associate those with masculinity.
I lived in the shadow of #15 for decades and I wore myself down to nothing because of it. I’ll be damned if I find that admirable anymore. Where does telling the truth and being authentic fit in there?
I would also point out that the list is made up of things that could just as easily be done by women if the listmaker was attracted to women. Are any of these things particularly male?
Calling Lisa Hickey!
This article is kind of bitter sweet for a lot of guys I think. On the one hand there’s this sincere and glowing appreciation of men by the author and some others in comments. On the other hand we feel as if some of the things we’re being appreciated for, are kind of things were trying not to do because they are this stereotypical masculine way of things. So it’s like a beautiful rose but for some, it also has its thorns.
It’s a very positive article and I hate to see negative responses, and at the same time some of the negative responses are so important to hear too. Is it possible to somehow split this thread into two pieces so we can get the best of both worlds? I wouldn’t want to offend anyone or censor anything here, and I don’t know if it would work very well, but I just wondered if it might.
One thing not discussed here is how this relates to women receiving compliments from men and how that can be a rose with a thorn too. Alice comments above that if it was men talking about what they love in women it would be “breasts, ass and legs”. She is able to identify that as “objectification”. That sort of complaint by women is something men often don’t understand because to a man being “objectified” would be terrific. Except here we have an example where some men at least are feeling “objectified” by this list. Not as a list of gorgeous body parts, but as a list of masculine protector role traits.
A rose with a thorn is a good way of putting it. Because yes, celebrating what we love in each other is a beautiful thing. And yet it can feel so much like a list of ways to fall short of the ideal. If I’m brushing the tears out of my boyfriend’s eyes for the third time this week, has he failed me at masculine protection? Or is he granting me an opportunity to be his hero, one which I should cherish? Maybe love is so deep, so rich, that every list will fall far short of the wonders of the human experience.
beautiful post , nerd
I concur with The Nerd.
I thought these sorts of “lists,” the imagined qualities of an ideal male mate, were the sorts of things girls dawdled over in middle school and high school, but not much beyond that age.
DavidByron, what a great and insightful comment. This is exactly the type of thing that we hope having a “forum” will solve, that is, the moment you or someone else sees something like this happening, you yourself can open up the question there and we can all help direct people there. It will probably take another two weeks before we get that beta tested and fully functional.
For now, I will post your comment as “comment of the day”, with a short explanation, and hope that people will use the rest of this thread for positive comments and use the “comment of the day” post for discussion and critiques. Thanks for thinking of it.
Ok, here is the post: http://goodmenproject.com/comment-of-the-day/the-bittersweet-world-of-male-objectification/
You don’t see how this objectifies males as a female accoutrement, a servant or for his utility. Men are objectified on a daily basis. What is the appropriate reciprocal objectification? Utility? What utility? Mother (no guarantee), sex (no guarantee).
So what if I want my woman to be a mother to my children? So what if I love it when a woman wants to please me sexually when I get home from a long day of work (even though hers was just as tough)? Why is my member less important than her feet?
I meant “or for HER utility”.
@Jean Valjean: I get where you’re coming from, but I am cautious about the risks associated with polarizing the argument. Non-feminist identified individuals reacts to such arguments with contempt and usually become more polarized in their position as a result. Certainly, there are a number of valid points made in your argument, but let’s be cautious when inferring on someone’s character and intention based upon differences in underlying beliefs. Neely and I have very different viewpoints on gender, but we’re also acquainted personally and I do know that she is a good person who would never intentionally wrong a male. Perhaps she would fair best in agreement with someone who values traditional gender roles as she does, and although she may find some allies here at GMP, the mainstream authority opinion on gender is compromised here by the percentage of us who advocate for a shift in the figure ground from ‘gender role’ to ‘human being’.
Agreed, it’s not fair that we try to defend ourselves against something that’s not even an attack. Let’s put PC aside and just enjoy the article for what it is.
Perhaps she would fair best with somebody who is into “traditional female roles”. Tit for Tat.
Fellas,
If you find a woman or a few who are man-bashing man haters, for goodness sake, move on quickly!
Distancing yourself from man haters is no complicated solution that requires a Ph.D. in “gender studies” or anything of the kind!
You can be sure, plenty of women love men for far more reasons than can even be put into words in any number of “lists.”
Sincerely,
Suzy
A woman doesn’t have to spew manhate to be a misandrist. Plenty of women make dimeaning, offensive, and abusive comments and accusations about men on this website and claim to have no idea of what they are doing. The above article is one of those posts. In particular is #9: “I love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives in service to our country and to protect us all”
What she is basically making military service as a condition of receiving love. It’s like dangling a carrot before the horse.
Do you really think that any female who is educated in the U.S. hasn’t absorbed 18 to 22 years of feminist hatred taught in schools?
Even if she’s a real saint there is still one big problem. Men are obligated to women but women have no obligations to men. How can that result in an equal partnership or even a healty long term relationship.
@Weber: You made a number of points I thought were worth noting and elaborating upon:
“Many girls want guys to open up but don’t realize that means the guy will also have weaknesses being displayed. They like openness but hate weakness.”
This is because culture socializes us to equate openness (or ‘bleeding hearts’) with weakness. The fact that weakness is at the ‘weakness’ end of the continuum reflects the same observation we have seen in gender polarization: with the masculine as ideal and the feminine as regression. This speaks volumes to our societies views of the femininity associated with women, and the cultural repudiation of it in favor of masculine as the model of ideal.
“But now it seems like women are masculinizing. Thhey’re starting to try to intimidate each other and guys. But being an unintimdating woman seems to be politically-incorrect somehow.”
What feminism and the women’s liberation movement did was grant women the same access and privilege (theoretically speaking) to the same resources as men. The ideals and values of our culture, like most other cultures, are founded upon masculine ideologies and the purposes they served for their time. Since the second-wave of feminism, women have joined the market of emulating masculine ideals (eg: power, success, autonomy). Fair game and good progress, but the baby got thrown out with the bath water when simultaneously we continued to allow our culture to see women as ‘lesser than’. Now that there is a legitimate threat being posed to the masculine bread winner, I think that has confused a lot of people from the safety and comfort of familiar gender roles. As a result, we’re seeing a backlash response to feminism through the increased polarization of gender roles (eg: sexual objectification of women). A big laymen misperception of feminism is that feminists consider men the problem. But it is quite the contrary. Rather, feminism sees culture’s repudiation of anything stereotypically associated with women as the problem.
Paul -
You note “the femininity associated with women, and the cultural repudiation of it in favor of masculine as the model of ideal” and you describe, too, how “feminism and the women’s liberation movement” have granted “women the same access and privilege (theoretically speaking) to the same resources as men. The ideals and values of our culture, like most other cultures, are founded upon masculine ideologies . . . Since the second-wave of feminism, women have joined the market of emulating masculine ideals (eg: power, success, autonomy). Fair game and good progress, but the baby got thrown out with the bath water when simultaneously we continued to allow our culture to see women as ‘lesser than’. ”
I agree with those observations, but disagree with your conclusion, that today’s flavor of “feminism sees culture’s repudiation of anything stereotypically associated with women as the problem.”
Too often, it seems to me, the feminist movement of our day disregards and disrespects “anything stereotypically associated with women” in favor of women emulating the roles traditionally held by men.
Despite your list, the majority of women will still choose the bad boy who displays few if any of these traits.
Yet another list of commands disguised as appreciation. It’s just more subtle but basically the same thing. What used to be “be a real man and do xyz” has now become “I love it when you do xyz”. I don’t buy it. It’s just another carrot dangling in front of our noses.
If you really appreciate the specific work that men do and the sacrifices that they make, then you must be prepared to admit that you are either not willing and/or unable to do those things.
We can only appreciate in others that which we are unwilling or unable to do ourselves? That’s preposterous!
I love when a person puts hir hand on the small of hir partner’s lower back, as if to say, I’m here for you if you need me.
I love when a person wipes away hir partner’s tears or pushes a strand of hir hair away from hir face, tucking it lovingly behind hir ear.
I love how millions of people go off to work every day and then come home after long work hours to share in the housework and child-rearing.
I love how people contribute hundreds of millions of dollars every year to charities in the U.S. and across the globe.
I love when a person makes us feel like we’re human.
I love when a person waits patiently inside an elevator to let all the others out first.
I love how a person who would go to the ends of the earth for another ze loves.
I love how a person who will rub hir partner’s feet at the end of the day even though ze’s had a hard day at work too.
I love the people who so bravely and willingly risk their lives in service to our country and to protect us all.
I love spooning.
I love the way a person looks into hir child’s eyes and loses hirself.
I love that people’s various discoveries throughout the ages (scientific, mathematical, medical, etc.) have made our lives easier.
I love the way a person runs into the ocean like maniac.
I love the shape of a person’s big, strong back when ze leans over to pick up something heavy.
I love when a person knows what to say and what not to say to make someone happy.
I love when a person tells a partner how lucky ze is to have found hir.
I love the way a person takes another’s hand, brings it to hir lips, and kisses it gently, showing how much ze adores hir.
I love when a person chows down on hir food, as if only a 9.0 Richter Scale earthquake could shake hir from hir glorious feast.
I love how a person in love thinks of hir partner’s sexual pleasure before hir own.
I love a person who will do the jobs that most of us would never consider. Sewer inspector, anyone?
What is a “hir” and a “ze?”
Regardless, this is just silly. It’s true that some of these can and should be gender-neutral but some of them simply aren’t, realistically. For example, I have worked extensively with my County’s sewer line maintenance department and waste management departments and there were no women even applying to physically deal with waste. They are certainly free to but few if any were even interested.
And, I am seriously not into women with “big strong backs.” But, if that’s your thing, not knock yourself out.
It would be hard to find a woman with a big strong back too. Even women who know how to work out acknowledge that women aren’t very muscular or physically strong.
Yeah, this list is pretty sub-par. You love men for acting in the way society tells everyone that men SHOULD act. Have some creativity. As a man, I’m not impressed with your observations.
Oh, and FYI: I love being little spoon.
@tendrecroppes
By beau is more than six feet tall, and he makes a fine “lil spoon,” too!
This piece needs some serious proofreading at the sentence level. “I love how a man who will…” Really?
That aside, I understand and share Steinberg’s love of men, but this piece leaves out so many valuable males. What about homosexual men? Or disabled men? Parts of this post seem to laud straight, able-bodied men exclusively. Lifting things and rubbing your girlfriend’s feet? That’s all well and good, but not exactly new territory. I’ll just add to the list: I admire men who thrive in the face of adversity.
@Rword: “but this piece leaves out so many valuable males”
Oh please! Nobody can ever please everybody.
The piece was from a heterosexual woman and dedicated to the men she loves.
Should we write anything mentioning every possible variation, inclination and hypothesis? Should we write always mentioning every possible disability?
C’mon! How absurd is that?!?
We don’t expect an LGBT writer to always consider all the different inclinations.
And rightly so. So why an hetero should?
@Rword: “Parts of this post seem to laud straight, able-bodied men exclusively”
And so what? Can’t the author have her own taste? Don’t everybody have their own?
And rightly so.
This kind of PC whining drives me mad…
Nothing valueable would have ever been written, if we had to consider all the possible complaints. Homer, Cicero, Shakespeare, Wilde… all would have been muted by PC critics.
Whiners don’t add anything valuable to the world; they just enhance the entropy.
Definitely not whining, just an observation. I’m just saying that there is more to what it means to be a man than this mere list. The writer herself even acknowledged this and wanted commenters to add items to the existing list. I think it’s important to acknowledge the experiences of men who don’t fit the stereotypical model of masculinity, and this piece doesn’t really do that. I, too, am a hetero woman, so I understand where Neely is coming from, to a point. It’s just not exactly new territory, as other commenters have pointed out. Not all criticism is tinged with whining or malice… mine certainly wasn’t. This article just presents a very specific and, in my opinion, limiting picture of male-ness.
Just as an example, I have a boyfriend, whose back I do very much enjoy, but I also have a great father, who taught me to stand up for what I believe in and look at everything with a critical eye. I could mention one of my best friends, a man who is gay, biracial, and a drag queen. I could mention the kind autistic man who I chat with at work every day of my life. So, even when drawing from personal experience, there is plenty of fertile territory from which a writer can pull to consider new ideas and perspectives.
But RWord, you did exactly what I was hoping people would do with this piece. My experience with men, for the most part, has been what you see above and that’s what is reflected in my list – that’s what I pulled from. I posted several things that I love about men. I then invited others to write what they love about men, realizing that my view is not all-encompassing. You say you “could mention one of your best friends, a man who is gay, biracial, and a drag queen.” And so you did, which is what I wanted readers to do. I wish you had mentioned what you love about him, because, after all, he is a man!
Oh, and yes, luckily I’ve had wonderful editors review many of my published pieces. What would a writer do without them!?
Neely
It would take a very strong back to lift that pedestal you live on. Pray tell, what should men love about a woman? I already know but I’m interested to find out what you think. What is their utility?
I agree Crescendo.
Neely was posting what she loved about men, others were free and welcome to post what they loved about men
Oh wow, Rword, thank you. Point taken. I am cringing at my error. I was rattling them off as I typed them and did not do the necessary proofreading. Ugh.
Sometimes we writers miss these things. I suppose I was caught between “I love a man who will … ” and “I love how a man will … ” and then forgot to delete the extra word. I appreciate being called out for that, though; it will make me be more careful next time. Thanks for your comment and feedback.
Best wishes,
Neely
No problemo. I currently do proofreading and copy-editing for a print publication, so I just have an eye for that stuff. Always harder when it’s your own work, of course, as your brain sort of reads what it thinks you’ve said, not what’s actually on the page (or screen.)
I loved your comment, but if you’re a proof reader you’d know that problema is a female noun.
Well, I generally read English texts, so… not necessarily. Thanks for the compliment, though.
Problema is actually male. In Spanish, it’s “el problema,” not “la problema.” Most Spanish nouns ending in “-ma” take the masculine.
The more you know!
Thanks for this. GMP is starting to find a new and more assertive voice.
I feel that these comments are relevant to the posted aritcle and they don’t belong segregated in an alternative forum at the expense of an additional viewpoint that threatens the author’s omniscience about ‘masculinity’. To do so in the absence of any real trolling activity, to me, seems like a political move to mainstream the content of the GMP and marginalize the minority position, as has been done ubiquitously over the last 50 years in gender discussion. What once gave the GMP its unique voice and authentic value appears to be in the process of being dumped in favor of appealing to a discussion that is quiter, an audience that is wider, and wallets that are fatter. You are doing a great disservice to a what I think could be your contributions to a revolutionary point in history. So is greed.
Paul, I agree with you. I believe all comments should be welcomed. It’s my understanding that the author of an article has a say in what he or she wants for his or her published pieces, but I’m not totally sure how it will work. If it is up to me, I do not plan not to censor anyone’s feedback.
Thanks for your comment!
Neely
Paul — thanks for your POV. I do think we can have contributions to a revolutionary point in history. And while I also agree we are seeking an audience that is wider, I can’t possibly see how that could be a bad thing. We’re looking to be not just the “enlightened few” that talk back and forth to each other, but a community that embraces newcomers and learns from their perspectives.
Same too, with the idea of creating a parallel thread or forum area — it’s to create more conversation not less, more comments not fewer, more provocative discussions in general but simply a place where people know what is acceptable and what is not. But we will keep your concerns in sight as we move forward. Again, thanks for the input.
What I find utterly shocking about this list is the lack of the mention of manhood. The physical kind, found betwitxt the legs of men. Surely to God women in general and this lady in particular love men for that don’t they/ doesn’t she?
Or maybe that’s what she meant by “I love when a man makes us feel like women.”
Dang, confused again…
Sigh… It sure is tough being this dumb…
@wet_suit_one: “The physical kind, found betwitxt the legs of men.”
Mhh… probably has been thought about it. But it was not PC.
PC-ness ruins all the fun.
@wet_suit_one: “It sure is tough being this dumb…”
It’s not dumbness, dude, it’s the communication that’s though stuff.
Check out this article: “Words Are A Very Poor Tool For Communication”
http://goodmenproject.com/comment-of-the-day/words-are-a-very-poor-tool-for-communication/
True, no room for truth in this mordern world is there?
So it goes….
Maybe you’re an avid reader of A Voice For Men…then again maybe you’re not, but I couldn’t have put it better than Mr. Paul Elam when he said the following in response to your article:
“I understand the appeal. There was a time in my life when I thought the world of people who didn’t clutter my life with their own needs or concerns for their own well-being; who did all the nasty, painful, dangerous and sacrificing tasks in life, while I got to remain protected, carefree and clueless. I got to live on a pedestal at the expense of others, and I didn’t have to consider the cost.
Yes, I remember it clearly now. It was called childhood. It was a time that was, in retrospect, one of unending self-indulgence – provided by responsible people that knew such sacrifices came with raising someone who, by the nature of life, was relatively helpless. Fortunately, they also took the responsibility of walking me through pain of growing out of that and showing me the more realistic world that did not revolve around me.”
It’s time to grow up and realize it’s not about what your man can do for you, but what you can do for each other. And no, giving him sex every once in a while, when YOU feel like it and only if he’s been good doesn’t count.
I love it when a woman gets out of the car to help change a tire.
I love it when a woman reaches for her purse to pay her way.
I love it when a woman hears “no” and accepts it with grace.
I love it when a woman takes responsibility for her own feelings, bad or good.
I love it when a woman embraces my need for things in my life that do not involve her.
I love it when a woman solves problems in a relationship with reason and fairness.
I love it when a woman takes responsibility for her mistakes and corrects them.
I love it when a woman stops trying to get validation for an idea that has no merit.
I love it when a woman realizes that equality comes with some burdens.
I love it when a woman recognizes that a “home” is a shared domain.
I love it when a woman is willing to get dirty and bruised and scraped up to get a job done.
I love it when a woman doesn’t know how to say, “You’re the man.”
I love it when a woman refuses to use tears to get her way.
I love it when a woman never says, “Speaking as a woman.”
I love it when a woman doesn’t confuse being shrill and cruel with being strong.
I love it when a woman has no expectation of me at all based on my being a man.
I love it when a woman has no expectations at all based on her being a woman.
I love it when a woman finds no one to blame for her problems but herself.
I love it when a woman recognizes that love is in what you give, not in what you take.
I love it when a woman understands that all these things are things that I love in men, too.
Amen, brother!
Wow, that’s quite a list, I don’t think I’m man enough. I suppose everyone is different and maybe I have too many expectations of women too. People really do appreciate being appreciated. Is anyone going to take a shot at writing an article about women?
I love when a women makes an effort to take the load off my back for all the responsibility and effort.
I love a woman in work boots doing hard labor.
I love when a woman mows my lawn and picks weeds while I’m taking care of the kids and making dinner.
I love when a woman brings me flowers just because she’s thinking of me.
I love when a woman wakes up early on the weekend, cleans my pool and makes breakfast.
I love when a woman takes equal responsibility for her own orgasms.
Neely I appreciate the motive behind this article, in your words to create “just an unadulterated tribute to men”. I believe lots of the male commentors have probably responded badly because it is very much a list of men doing something (in many cases for women) rather than being something in and of themselves. Maybe if these are the things that come from “the creation of my stream of consciousness” then you should have a look at how you view men.
In the spirit of the article I’ll leave some of additional reasons that I feel might go on the list about my fellow men.
1. Their sense of humour – just the range and depth, even in the face of all the shit we have to deal with. I think it is very male phrase to say “well you’ve got to laugh or else you’ll cry” (yes I think most of us do still have hang ups about crying when we are hurt, though i do cry when emotional …. some movies really do get me!)
2. Their sense of duty and honour – I think all men live by a set of personal rules and codes that we develop throughout our lives – bro’s code anyone?
3. Their tenacity and fortitude – we get enough shit thrown at us, yet we will always carry on.
4. Their kindness and gentleness – we are the protectors and providers. My dad, my uncle, the fireman, the policeman, the teacher etc etc. I don’t think that men get to feel that way around other men that often, yet women and kids do, that warm feeling of being “looked out for”. I think it is something that women should feel very lucky to experience rather than see it as something negative and chauvanistic quite often.
I could go on and on about men and I’m not homosexual so I haven’t and won’t experience a lot of their features. Half the reason why I’m fighting against misandry is because all that we are as men is being degraded into what we can do for others, and as objects of hatred and blame. We are a beautiful gender as well (though to me, not on the outside quite as much)
Hi Matt,
That was a lovely, well-thought-out comment. I appreciate it; thank you. My intention, of course, was to post a list of reasons I appreciate men, in big and small ways, which I thought was pretty innocent and lighthearted. But I think it is a reasonable question to ask me to view how I view men based on the things I listed. I can say with all honesty, though, that I don’t view men as being in service to women at all. I think women and men should be in service to each other. I think my boyfriend could write an equally long list of things I do for him, and I would never view it as a chauvinistic piece of writing, in which women are in service to men. I would have viewed it as: “Wow, isn’t that so sweet that he appreciates all the things I do for him.” I also have to wonder: Do men not enjoy making women happy? Does it not feed something inside of them? Take giving sexual pleasure before their own with a woman they love, for example. I don’t characterize it as being “in service” to women, but as I have found, it is more driven by a desire to do things out of love and appreciation for the woman they are with. I could say the same for women: that we enjoy giving a man we are in love with sexual pleasure before our own, because it makes a man happy and feel good, and to see that makes us happy. And yes, I recognize that most of the things on my list could be reversed (“I love how women … “), but I wanted to keep it strictly about men. Again, I respect that different people viewed this list differently and have enjoyed reading the various perspectives. They are fodder for my next article.
I’d also like to point out that I’ve been critical of feminism and feminists on many occasions (here on GMP and in other writings). Not sure that’s worth anything, but, anyway…
Neely
Hi Neely,
Thankyou for your response; I think men do enjoy giving and even though there is an argument “we give so that we recieve (sex etc)” I personally think that is bullocks. I think a lot of men give in a relationship because it is a way we show love rather than emoting our feelings.
Do you feel that in many ways your list could be instead condensed down to 3 points of male being? Their empathy, kindness and generosity, maybe if the list had been constructed in that fashion there wouldn’t have been some of the negative responses there have been? I know it is a semantics argument, maybe it should be more on the honus of the reader to see you appreciating these aspects of male being by your appreciation of the consequental actions, I just know it is a sore point for many men out there including me, the “being and doing argument”.
I know why there is quite this distinct dividing line between feminists and mrm, I agree with Paul Elam on some of his remarks that just talking politely with reason and logic to some of the nutters out there will get you nowhere because they are bat shit crazy male haters or people who point blank refuse to see any different.
Thats probably why you picked up flak because in an “us or them” attitude means slight deviation from “us” leads you in the middle, and no man’s land gets gunfire from both sides. Understandably a lot of the mrm have this attitude, though I probably hold more to Warren Farrell style WHEN confronted with reasonable people. Unfortunately those are the times we live in, and until there are some markable changes in policy and attitudes you probably will pick up flak for an article like this no matter your past views of feminism.
Cheers, Matt
All of you reacting badly to this piece need therapy! Wow! I wonder if people would react the same if the author had used the word “appreciate” instead of love.
Just because you love someone’s selflessness, that doesn’t make you selfish. Just because you love when people put you first doesn’t mean you don’t often put them first.Just because you love certain qualities in men doesn’t meant that you don’t also see & love those qualities in other women.
I know selfish people VERY well, they don’t LOVE selfless qualities in others, they take them for granted, expect them, or they are amazed by them knowing that they are incapable of it. Narcissists have entitlement, not appreciation.
Here are some things I appreciate about people, but I shall phrase it “What I love about men” since that is the topic here:
* I love when a man can tell me his opinion or desires, to give me a chance to make him happy without trying to read his mind.
* I love when a man is clear about his intentions so that I can chose for myself whether to allow him into my life.
* I love a man’s drive, ambition, and accountability in making his life the best he can for himself. His belief in himself is incredibly sexy.
* I love when a man says “You don’t need to do that, darling, you take care of me all the time. Just relax for a change.”
* I love a man who appreciates all that women have added to his life without being resentful over what he’s done for women.
* I love a man who accepts love and appreciation graciously without insinuating that he deserves more.
* I love when men talk out an issue even though they’d rather not, because it benefits the relationship AND both people in it.
* I love a man’s passion that has nothing to do with his family, his children or his partner. It’s unique to him & it lights him up from the inside.
@ Lisa Hickey:
I appreciate your taking time to respond to my comment.
I agree that seeking a wider audience isn’t a bad thing. I think it’s quite a good thing! I also think that widening the audience while silencing the minority voice mitigates the value of content your readers, who have gained so much from GMP in the past. And while your marketing direction may or may not see the minority voice as compromising the appeal of mainstream gender discussion, it can’t ethically deny the urgency of its counterarguments.
Many of the biggest gains I’ve gotten from the GMP were not the result of my finding them, but them finding me. If you segregate the feminist critique of gender into a designated space, and acquire many new readers (who are almost guaranteed to have the same preconceived notions of feminism that I once had), they are less likely to seek out the information if it’s displaced. The discourse needs to be an ongoing and integrated one, not a reserved one that is considered as separate, Given the content of the GMP, I feel it is never ‘off-topic’.
As a graduate student in counseling psychology, I can also speak to the enormous benefit I’ve gained in critical thinking from the inclusion of multiple diversity issues (eg: sexism, racism, ageism) in each course, and not just in one designated semester. It is woven into the fabric of the entire program because it is necessary in order to produce consciousness-raising. Otherwise, we would be fish who didn’t know we were swimming in water.
I 100% support the retention of gender-sensitive content and comments across all articles at the GMP.