20 Things I’ve Learned About Men from Working at Penthouse

Premium Membership, The Good Men Project

About Suzan Ryan

Suzan Ryan is a fan of noir, single malt scotch and clever conversation. She lives in Sydney, Australia, and is the Editor of Australian Penthouse magazine.

Comments

  1. Bay ARea Guy says:

    Men hate mind-reading games.

    Amen!

  2. OirishM says:

    “2. Most men don’t want a girlfriend with inner thighs as tight as bridge supports.”

    The underlying muscles, on the other hand….. ;)

    “3. A man won’t notice or care that you’re wearing a couture skirt or carrying a fashionable handbag if you smile with your eyes as he approaches.”

    And your mouth. Smile with your mouth too.

    “5. Don’t judge the content of a man’s character solely by the clothes he wears, and don’t get angry if he judges you on the length of your skirt; men determine what you’re looking for in direct proportion to how much skin you’re showing.”

    Erm……bit of a double standard, no?

    “7. When men look at naked women they’re not thinking of you, or comparing your body to hers. Men just enjoy looking at women’s bodies because they are beautiful; not because they want to have sex with them…but a lot of the time they wouldn’t mind.”

    …..well, I think it’s actually both. Doesn’t mean they’ve stopped being interested in women they are involved with, and I’m personally fine with my gf thinking dirty thoughts about other chaps, there’s trust enough there for that.

    “8. Ladies: shut up about your weight. Seriously. If you’re unhappy with your body, do something about it, don’t project your unhappiness onto your partner; it’s not his problem that you’re unsatisfied with your body, it’s yours.”

    I don’t mind hearing it if it’s not being blamed on me (assuming I’m not responsible for making her feel bad about her weight). The pressure to maintain a particular body image is, for both genders, imposed by society as a whole – it’s not just an expectation of the opposite sex. Guys want to be well-endowed in the muscular departments (and other departments), girls want to stick-thin size zeros – even though both genders in each case are saying “um, hello? We don’t actually find that attractive?” It’s not enough to simply say that you find her attractive at a weight she’s unhappy with. It’s important, sure – but it’s not a panacea.

    “9. Despite what you may think, strippers are rarely prostitutes; they’re just women who are comfortable in their skin. With strippers, men are free to admire a woman’s body without guilt — plus, strippers flirt without strings, which makes men feel attractive, and we all need our ego stroked occasionally.”

    Flirting without strings, apart from the expectation that you’ll be handing over money? I’m not judging the profession, but let’s not pretend it’s something it’s not. There may be some sincere flirts within stripping, but the transactional nature of it clouds the issue somewhat.

    “10. You have $1500 shoes and men have sport and XBOX; there is yin and there is yang. And plenty of room for both.”

    11-14 are behaviours that are not really confined to women. As for 14, depends on the woman. I’ve known women who’ve gone silent because they’re worried about being unable to control their temper – in which case, I have appreciated a period of silent treatment, and I know that it’s not simply freezing me out.

    “15. Think about what turns you on and let him know what that is.”

    I find making suggestions and asking whether it’s a turn-on is a help. :D

    “18. Just one time, ask him what he would change about you, and listen to what he says (as your best friend and confidant, he knows what you need to work on). Be brave enough to embrace that honesty.”

    Why once? Why not make it a regular thing?

    “19. Be confident in yourself. He loves you, so why not allow that validation and support to be enough? It will make him proud.”

    See comments on 8. I’m down with some level of mutual dependence, but I want my gf to be confident and strong and happy with or without me (though I obviously plan to stay with her).

  3. #12: I just texted my karate sensei to come out and meet us at the local Irish bar tonight (he just had twin baby girls and I am sure he needs to decompress!)…let’s hope he can escape the house for at least one beer!

  4. There are no “secrets” to men or to women. Each person is an individual. No set of rules or lists is going to allow understanding of the person/people you’re dealing with. What works 100% of the time is clear, open, and honest communication. If one of you can’t do this, there is bound to be problems. When we can communicate openly and honestly and seek to understand each other on an individual basis, relationships will prosper. Or maybe they will end, which is fine too. All to say, when we understand each other clearly we can decide if it’s a relationship worth carrying on. Learn to listen, learn to be open and honest.

  5. wellokaythen says:

    #7 could go even further, I think. Men’s attraction to women is not a finite quantity. It’s not a zero-sum game or a single pie that can only be cut so many times. If a man finds another woman physically attractive, that does not make him LESS attracted to his partner. He’s not spreading his attraction thin, and he’s not automatically re-ordering his priorities. A turned head is 99.9% of the time just a turned head. Being turned on by you has really no bearing on whether or not he’s turned on by other women, and vice versa. In his mind, at least, these are usually unrelated feelings.

    #9 seems a little out of place. I’m not sure what the message is here, except “let him hire a stripper, because she’s probably not a prostitute.” I know this is totally arbitrary on my part, but I tend to think there’s a notable difference between looking at Penthouse and putting a bill in a g-string. That’s a key difference, as much as the difference between a dancer and a prostitute. I might prefer my wife to be okay with me going to a strip club, but I understand why she wouldn’t like it, and I don’t feel all that fussed either way.

  6. Most strippers have to pay the house to work. They have rigged the system to make the dancers dependent on “lap dancing” which in many cases encourages competition between dancers to provide a nastier experience for the “gentlemen” (ha) who in turn exploit the dancers further by pressuring her to perform sexual acts. If she does not make enough, she will owe the club money at the end of her shift. Most clubs will allow dancers to get into debt and then turn on the pressure to perform sexual acts. Sad fact.

    • wellokaythen says:

      Sounds like there is a massive demand, or at least an economic niche, for clubs run by the women themselves, or clubs that can offer better terms for their performers.

      • That would require them to get off their ass n setup a club, change the rules instead of simply allowing the status quo to continue. I seriously find it hard to believe that after this time there wouldn’t be a bunch of clubs run by people that give a damn, or at least a lot of options to get there. A stupid club would extort their performers so much, a happy worker means more money…

        • I believe there is a woman owned strip club in San Francisco (The Lusty Lady?) that is supposed to be a good place for women to work. When I was in school in SF years ago, I remember hearing about it.

      • soullite says:

        Not really. The same economic dynamics will win out. Men simply will not go to a strip club these days without lap dances. The internet put an end to that — your average stripper can’t compete with your average porn star, and you can’t fap at a strip club.

        Even if a woman did start a club like that, it wouldn’t be long before either it folded, or she did.

  7. Great article!

  8. A lot of generalizations but this advice will work for some but doesn’t apply to all.

  9. Fabulous post Ms Ryan. Very well said/put.

    Old school dies hard. The blessing of chronological age is, by the time you reach my era you know all these things. Applying the accrued knowledge renders unimaginable bliss.

    This ‘reality show mentality’ luring people into lower dimensions doesn’t help.Yin-yang polarity, (individually and collectively) is off it’s axis, has been for thousands of years.
    Me, the eternal optimist and why I write/speak about the subject.

  10. Mr Supertypo says:

    Well put Ms Ryan, I like your advices :-)

  11. “10. You have $1500 shoes and men have sport and XBOX; there is yin and there is yang. And plenty of room for both.”

    Holy shit. What kind of women are you TALKING about? The only thing I’ve spent 1500 on is a horse. And, eventually, a car. I think this is where this article loses it for me. I figure there is a certain type of person who works for Penthouse and while that’s fine and dandy for her, she probably does have a bit of a convoluted vision of what women on the other side of the spectrum are like, just like I can’t imagine ever meeting (or getting along with) a person who would spent fifteen hundred dollars on shoes, male or female. Like, I cannot even comprehend. Unless, of course, you are a Walton and have billions of dollars just sitting around. I guess if you’ve got that much cash, you can spend it on weird things like solid gold butt plugs. This article feels like she’s telling me not to do these things, but she assumes that “women” do these things. The problem with these types of magazines (both male and female-driven, looking at you, Cosmo) is that they, and the people who work for them, talk about genders like a collective. I’m sorry they experience life that way, but I have rarely come across a group of people so black-and-white. Every time I think something is a “man” thing, I meet someone who defies it.

    All in all, it sounded judgey and made some pretty inaccurate assumptions of both genders. The end points were alright, but I figure “BE CONFIDENT” is pretty obvious. I mean, even I know that, and I have been on exactly 3 sort-of dates in my life.

    • I can’t imagine spending $1500 on shoes.

      • soullite says:

        Heh, the price point was just a price point. For her, I’d imagine $1500 is considered ‘too much’ to spend on shoes, but not so much that it’s a bank breaker. For me and you, $300 would probably fit a little better.

        I’m a fairly manly guy. A lot of this article didn’t fit me (I don’t play video games. I do spend far too much on clothes. I don’t mind short calls on my nights out, so long as they actually are short and there’s only one or two of them), but most of it did. I don’t let the fact that one or two minor factoids missed the mark ruin the overarching point.

    • My boyfriend has a Xbox 360, and I have a PlayStation 3, we both have computers we can use for gaming, mine being somewhat more powerful than his (he has my old one). We just don’t like the same kinds of game. I tend to favor single player RPGs, or MMOs (but still tend to solo), he tends to favor single player FPS, or survival horror (also single player).

      I wouldn’t spend 1500$ on a console, but I spent nearly that on my computer. The most I spent on clothes stuff is a 400$ dress (275$ +30$ shipping +100$ border fees).

      • I dumped 10k on camera equipment, although it’s for a business but still men do spend quite a pretty penny on hobbies. Although a 1500 dollar computer has a fuckload more uses than a 1500 dollar pair of shoes unless the woman uses them to win a major foot modeling contract or something. :P

        • Trans women gamers also spend a pretty penny on their hobbies, and I’m extremely selective in what games I buy (I buy at most 5 games a year).

          I have an Intellivision, a NES, a SNES, a Genesis, a PS2, a PS3, and games for all these. The Intellivision was bought before my birth, the NES when I was a kid, both by my father. I probably have another copy than the one he bought though (for the NES). The Genesis was a family buy in 1993, the others were all bought by me. I also lost 2 PS1s (got none now) and 2 PS2s (my 3rd is the slim version, in white), this is my first and only PS3 (slim version with 120 GB HDD).

          I disavowed Nintendo post 16-bit, but own many Square (called Squaresoft in the US) and Square-Enix titles, provided they’re not on Nintendo consoles starting with N64 or handheld only (I hate handhelds). That’s most Final Fantasy games, and most Star Ocean games. Also the Xenosaga series. Recently started collecting Lego games to play with my boyfriend in the co-op 2 player mode. Got about half of them. I have a few Mega Man (3, 8, X, X4, X7, Legends, Legends 2) too.

          I’m a collector, but a hardcore gamer first (I don’t intend to sell my collection, I just like to think I got them).

  12. Here’s what I LOVE about this list. Everything here boils down to two main suggestions.
    #1) Own and manage your own issues.
    #2) Make space for your partner’s individuality in your relationship

    #19 is so very important as well. For both men and women, learning how to be loved is a huge gift to their partners.

    In this regard, this article applies to both men and women.

    • Well put Mark. Many of the above comments miss the forest for the trees. Don’t be so specific people! The overall message of the article is excellent.

  13. stromdal says:

    Spot on!

  14. You make some pretty insightful points, although #18, NEVER, even if you pulled my fingernails out, would I ever do that one! I mean, It would just not be worth it to hear about any thing I might say for the rest of my life!

  15. And men need to stop suppressing the female gaze.

    Fit and Feminist gets it right.

    “We hear all the time that “men are visual creatures” and “women are emotional” and “women are attracted to personalities” and “it’s science” and blah blah blah, but I feel comfortable in saying that this is just essentialist garbage that obscures the fact that almost all human beings (who aren’t blind, that is) are visual creatures, regardless of our gender or our sexuality. Most of us like to look at people we find sexually appealing! It’s how we roll, and as long as we don’t treat each other badly because of it, there’s nothing wrong with that. What I do have a problem with is this belief that there is no such thing as the female gaze. It contributes to that god-awful “men are from Mars, women are from Venus” nonsense that acts like men and women are two alien species with virtually nothing in common, when the reality is that men and women have way more in common than not. Many women like to look at sexy people, and many men like their partners to be decent, interesting people. It’s not either/or, yet we keep acting like it is.”

    • soullite says:

      If your only answer to ‘it’s science’ is ‘blah blah blah’, then you don’t have one.

      Men are more visual than women. That really is science. Google it, if you don’t believe me. And yes, everyone looks at people they find visually stimulating. That proves nothing. The difference comes is in how many people one gender finds visually stimulating as opposed to the other.

      • The science that men are more visual than women has been debunked many times over.

        Science Daily presented the following study: “Erotic Images Elicit Strong Response From Brain”

        “A great deal of past research has suggested that men are more visual creatures than women and get more aroused by erotic images than women. Anokhin says the fact that the women’s brains in this study exhibited such a quick response to erotic pictures suggests that, perhaps for evolutionary reasons, our brains are programmed to preferentially respond to erotic material.

        “Usually men subjectively rate erotic material much higher than women,” he says. “So based on those data we would expect lower responses in women, but that was not the case. Women have responses as strong as those seen in men.”

        The question I would like to ask you is “Why are you against the female gaze?”. “Why are women not allowed to broadcast their sexual fantasies like men do?

        • Where did he say he is against it? I think largely he just doesn’t believe it exists to the extent it does for men? Even I question the power of a woman’s gaze vs a man’s. Maybe it’s less about women being less visual, but more that women are visual in a different way? Does porn turn women on as quick or as often as it does for men? By turn on I mean mentally, I realize that studies have shown women got physically aroused to videos of animals having sex but most/all didn’t realize it from what I heard.

          • The fact you question the existence of the female gaze rather than express curiosity and excitement about it indicates to me that it is something man fear. Your outright dismissal of the scientific proof I provided further shows that many men will stick to the preferred narrative no matter what science says. I call it “patriarchal biology” as in shaming the hell out of female sexuality than turn around and claim man need/like sex more than women.

            The same thing is happening with the female gaze. The suppression and forced absence of it is now offered as proof that it doesn’t really exist.

            The notion that women are not interested in looking at the objects of their desire is a patriarchal fabrication of gigantic proportion.

            Not until authentic female sexuality is afforded the same status and consideration as that of men will anything change in today’s dysfunctional human sexual relations.

            • 1st sentence “man” should be “men” Likewise in 3rd sentence.
              Last sentence “in” should be “with”, I think.

            • “The fact you question the existence of the female gaze rather than express curiosity and excitement about it indicates to me that it is something man fear.”
              You really didn’t read my comment fully did you? I don’t question it’s existance, I KNOW IT EXISTS, I question whether it’s as POWERFUL as a man’s.

              “Your outright dismissal of the scientific proof I provided further shows that many men will stick to the preferred narrative no matter what science says.”
              I didn’t dismiss it, you didn’t link to the studies either. I offered an alternate opinion. I am YET to be convinced that men n women have the SAME level of arousal both mentally n physically from visual alone.

              “I call it “patriarchal biology” as in shaming the hell out of female sexuality than turn around and claim man need/like sex more than women. ”
              I call what you doing a strawman, because you’re arguing a point I didn’t make. You failed to read my comment, misunderstood my position, use that wrong position to insinuate as a way to try prove many men stick to the preferred narrative no matter the science. I didn’t say the female gaze doesn’t exist, I didn’t say the female gaze is LESS than men, I AM saying based on what I’ve seen I am UNSURE if the female gaze is as powerful as men’s but I am 100% open to the idea that it IS if that is really how it is. My current view is that men are more visually turned on BOTH physically n mentally, not that women are NOT turned on. Based of what I’ve seen n read both in science and in experiences with the genders I think men’s gaze is more powerful than women’s but that is just my opinion, it could be wrong and I am open to that. I am not gonna state as fact however that women’s is lower than men’s.

              “The notion that women are not interested in looking at the objects of their desire is a patriarchal fabrication of gigantic proportion. ”

              You haven’t read any of my comments on porn have you? I regularly discuss how women too look at porn.

            • If I read you correctly you believe the female gaze is not as powerful as that of men but that you’re open to change your mind about that view.

              The fact that the female gaze is almost unheard of in our culture shows how effective slut shaming is. Also, society pushes the hetero male gaze on everyone. As a result, women are forced to view themselves as the gender that is being looked at. Furthermore, many men like to brag about how much they enjoy looking at women. It’s a meme that’s repeated ad nauseam and which helps to reinforce their monopoly over which gender does (is allowed to do) the looking.

              Also, why would women get turned on by mainstream porn which disregards the sexual needs of the woman and focuses entirely on what men can do to/with her? I could provide a link to a good article on “Pornography for Women” which explains in great detail what turns women on but I’m not sure if links are accepted by the moderators. Hence I did not include a link to the science article I mentioned. However, I provided the title of the study and the name of the publication so you can find it easily via google. For the article on porn, google “A lesser species part 1V, Pornography for women”.

              That said, I’m a little disappointed that you still have not asked me to explain what the female gaze is and what you can do to ensure that it takes its rightful place. The article on pornography for women includes insightful information about the female gaze: what it is and how the struggle for its acceptance continues.

              I’d like to end this comment with a link to beautiful images for the female gaze.
              (Google: “Father Nature” by Mariano Testa – Beautiful Life)

              Since there are more variations within a gender than between genders, other women may find images of a different kind of man more appealing.

            • Mr Supertypo says:

              “Also, why would women get turned on by mainstream porn which disregards the sexual needs of the woman and focuses entirely on what men can do to/with her? I could provide a link to a good article on “Pornography for Women” which explains in great detail what turns women on but I’m not sure if links are accepted by the moderators. ”

              actually, believe it or not some women do. But beside that, try to post some links, dont worry of the mod’s. If they accept it is all good, if not to bad. Or at least give us some search key’s to google it. :-)

            • I provided the search keys in my comment. But here it is again.

              Google “A Lesser Species Part 1V – Pornography for women”

            • Reading it now, question. What kind of porn stars do women find attractive? Of the male porn stars I’ve seen, I’d say most are above average attractiveness and usually equal in attractiveness with the woman in mainstream porn with some exceptions usually allowed for lesser attractive men with VERY large penii. I don’t often see an ugly man with a hot woman, but when I do it’s usually very easy to also find an ugly woman with a hot man.

              Other question is 1 in 3 visitors to porn sites are female, does this include frequency or is it possible men look once a day on average, women once every 2 days? Are men and women’s libidos a perfect match? Because everything I’ve ever read, known, experienced suggested men’s libidos are significantly higher on average, more frequent that is.

            • “That said, I’m a little disappointed that you still have not asked me to explain what the female gaze is and what you can do to ensure that it takes its rightful place. ”
              I figured you would have posted the link. Post it but put (NSFW) in the title, it will probably be acceptable as long as people are warned to it’s content but if it’s just a link to porn itself it probably won’t be allowed. I have an idea of the female gaze being similar to men, the enjoyment of seeing a man’s body such as when I hear my friends talk about a man’s great ass, or my friends who post topless firefighter photos, the penis straws and cakes at bachelorette parties whom goto “Manpower” strippers. I also have quite a few friends that look at various porn, including women that look at mainstream porn. Hell I have a friend who likes being slapped n hurt during sex, stuff that I wouldn’t think she’d like but that’s what turns her on.

            • Yes, women are not some homogenous group as advertisers would have us believe. Women’s sexual tastes vary as do those of men. Both genders are very similar in that respect.

            • @Archie

              “Are men and women’s libidos a perfect match? Because everything I’ve ever read, known, experienced suggested men’s libidos are significantly higher on average, more frequent that is.”

              That’s because you are looking through the patriarchal lens.

              The following comment I read on a blog (sorry, can’t remember where), mirrors my view exactly.

              “I disagree with your contention that the burden of proof lies with those of us who are skeptical of the “men are more horny than women” theory. I believe that the burden of proof lies with those advancing the theory, and to prove it, they need to create some controlled studies.

              Those controls would include:

              *Men and women who are reared without any social norms that influence their ideas of sex and gender
              *Men and women given exactly the same amount of stimuli
              *Men and women presented with situations where they get exactly the same treatment for their behavior
              After you can produce this (good luck!), you can begin to measure sexual desire and see if men have a natural baseline that’s higher.

              It’s worth noting that studies that control for the fear of rape show women will agree to casual sex as much as men.

              Also worth noting is that most sex doesn’t occur in casual circumstances, but in pre-existing relationships.”

              In short: provide women and men with the exact same amount of sexual freedom, then measure.

            • “That’s because you are looking through the patriarchal lens. ”
              No, it’s because I was told by people over n over n over. I have very rarely heard of a man wanting LESS sex than his partner but plenty n plenty of times have I heard of a woman not engaging in sex with her partner anywhere near as much as he wants. This isn’t patriarchy talking, this is real couples talking of real issues, far far more women have told me that sex isn’t a big deal yet for most men I hear from they want MORE sex than they currently get.

              If you can show me women want sex 1:1 ratio with men, just as much, just as often INSIDE relationships where the fear of rape is low then I might belief you but the burden of proof is on you, since your views greatly differ from the majority of what society believes.

  16. I don’t really relate to this list. I’m not sure how seriously I can take advice about how men aren’t judgmental about women’s looks based on magazines that center around the way women look that best please men. There is a very specific type of woman that are in the pages of Penthouse or Playboy or like minded magazines.

    If men really want women to believe that they are much more open to differences in women’s bodies and less judgmental of women’s bodies, then I would like to see that translate into men’s everyday, real life actions and not just expect women to read men’s *true* minds, while a lot of men show a special place in their heart for magazines like Penthouse or turn their head every time an attractive woman walks by.

    I also find points number 5 and 6 hypocritical. Men are alloewd to judge you based on what you wear (but remember men aren’t judgemental of women) but I’m not suppose to judge a man’s character based on what he wears. …What? I am so confused.

    I also don’t get point number 6. Men can make dirty and sexist jokes but they are the ones that really respect and don’t judge women while women are horrible banshees that are the real judge and jury? Yet, in the history of the world, Most gains women have made is because women fought along side each other for equality, not against one another. I do not like the stereotype that women are somehow more cruel to each other. It’s not true. In my personal life I have received more kindness and compassion from women more than I have from men. That’s been my personal experience and not necessarily true for everyone. But I have had so many women in my life that were kind, gracious, warm, protective and encouraging that didn’t make negative comments about my body. But I have encountered a number of men that felt like they could make all kinds of comments about my body and tell me how I didn’t measure up.

    I also find number 7 a contradiction. Men don’t want to have sex with women they find attractive but they wouldn’t mind it if they did??? What? How does that clear up anything for women. To me, it’s a round about way to say that men do want to have sex with other women.

    As for number 8, I do think women can weight down her relationship but being overly conscious of her body. However, I also understand why women are overly conscious of their bodies when they are pitted up against magazines where women look practically perfect in Penthouse or Playboy. Perhaps women can work on their on body confidence and perhaps men can offer some understanding and kindness for the images women are expected to contend with that he most likely is enjoying on the side of his relationship with her.

    I am open to number 18 if a man is open to it as well. Perhaps instead of it just being about her asking him what he would change about her, he can also ask her the same thing and both can be brave enough to embrace it with honesty.

    Number 19 is a tricky. Yes, you should be confident in yourself. But just because a man believes he is giving enough validation and support in his own way doesn’t mean that he is for her. That’s something that needs to be worked out within the relationship.

    I think number 20 is very positive. However, usually a lot of guy’s ideas about trying something new includes watching a porno he likes and him expecting you to mimic the actresses in it. I would hope that we could over expand over this concept for the health of relationships all around.

    • “I also don’t get point number 6. Men can make dirty and sexist jokes but they are the ones that really respect and don’t judge women while women are horrible banshees that are the real judge and jury?”
      I believe she is saying the women judge more harsher, some men still judge harshly especially when being sexist but when the women do it is far more harsh. She didn’t say men don’t judge.

      “Most gains women have made is because women fought along side each other for equality, not against one another. I do not like the stereotype that women are somehow more cruel to each other. It’s not true. In my personal life I have received more kindness and compassion from women more than I have from men.”
      This article is full of stereotypes, which is a big problem. However it’s not uncommon to have a lot of infighting between groups of women. A job agency told me that they wish more men were in administration jobs because “It breaks up the cattyness”. I believe the issue is more that too many of one gender can sometimes cause a fair bit of fighting, I personally find a more even mix of genders breaks things up nicely and there is less fighting. I’ve seen groups of women be very very mean to each other and others, and other groups be very nice (seen the same of men too).

      “I also find number 7 a contradiction. Men don’t want to have sex with women they find attractive but they wouldn’t mind it if they did??? What? How does that clear up anything for women. To me, it’s a round about way to say that men do want to have sex with other women. ”

      More like some men want to FANTASIZE about having sex with other women. If they were single some really wanna have sex with them, when they’re in a relationship some may still want to have sex but some don’t, some of those wish to just look at her (or him, some straight men even look at male pornstars in that way) and find the idea, the fantasy as sexy. It’s similar to how being James Bond sounds attractive for a fantasy but in reality I myself wouldn’t want to be him.

      “As for number 8, I do think women can weight down her relationship but being overly conscious of her body. However, I also understand why women are overly conscious of their bodies when they are pitted up against magazines where women look practically perfect in Penthouse or Playboy. Perhaps women can work on their on body confidence and perhaps men can offer some understanding and kindness for the images women are expected to contend with that he most likely is enjoying on the side of his relationship with her. ”
      Agreed. In Australia our censorship laws mean magazines have to digitally perform labiaplasty to conform to standards because longer inner labia would bump the classification up from MA to R, causing many women to feel insecure about their labia. The Large Labia Project is an awesome initiative to try help women feel more secure about themselves and realize the vulva has many shapes, sizes, colours.

      • “I believe she is saying the women judge more harsher, some men still judge harshly especially when being sexist but when the women do it is far more harsh. She didn’t say men don’t judge.”

        And I didn’t say she said men don’t judge. If you are going to accuse others of using strawman arguments than you must not use them yourself.

        The idea that women are more harsher judges that men caters to the idea that women are more inherently harsh than men. Which is simply false. There isn’t a man on this board that would like the stereotype that men are inherently harsh over women. Why perpetuate the same mentality the other way around?

        Most women don’t care if their friends or family have porn-star bodies or model bodies. They don’t worry about what their bodies will look like after they have a baby. They don’t talk about how much they love their friends but then look at pictures of other women fantasizing for their friendships instead. They understand the issues other women go through because every woman on the planet has experienced some form of issue with her body based on how people have treated her for it or talked to her for it and based how the world forces ideals on women for their looks. This goes for really beautiful women and more plain women alike.

        I am not saying that women can’t be judgmental. They can! However, women are more often the victims of body judgment then they are the cause.

        We are told 24/7 how men are *visual*. We are told 24/7 how much our looks are worth in this world. When a lot of men give advice to women about how to attract men, usually the advice is “work out and look good”. It’s not about what we can do with our minds or heart, it’s about what our bodies are. We are told how much even our own partners want to think about being with other women based on their looks and then we see visual confirmation of that when our partners are looking at pornography or turning their head for another woman. We are forced to contend with images like Penthouse but we are also expected to be so super confident in our own bodies while he is lusting after young women. And it isn’t suppose to be troublesome to us because we are expected to be uber confident regardless of the messages we get even from the men in our own lives. We are suppose to even take advice from someone at Penthouse itself, a magazine that makes women’s looks top priority, about how women should approach looks. But we are suppose to not care about our own looks at the same time. We are suppose to care about them as long as they are pleasing to men but not care about them so much that we focus on how are own looks fit into the world’s perception of them. Meanwhile, men are encouraged to indulge and enjoy the looks of women on a regular basis.

        Eventually at some point in your relationship you can guarantee your boyfriend will point to something like Penthouse or a porno and basically ask if you can be more like the woman in it by either doing what she is doing or dressing up like her. But you are suppose to remain 100% confident that it’s you he wants. We are suppose to read men’s mind when they are looking at super gorgeous women and just accept the fact that a man needs to enjoy the femininity of every woman he visually is attracted to to be satisfied in his primary relationship with you. And then women are condemned and shamed for their insecurities and told how their feelings really don’t matter or how they are just *silly* for feeling what they feel.

        I am not going to claim women never judge. I just think it’s horrible to support the idea that women are meaner than men. It’s the same idea that women are somehow more sensitive than men. Which isn’t true either! That’s a negative stereotype to project about men. Men are sensitive in different ways from women, but they are not less sensitive than women. Men and women can both be harsh. Women are not somehow more harsh than men are though.

        I think it’s unfair to tell women how judgmental they are from a magazine like Penthouse that does nothing but judge women on the quality of their looks and body. It’s like saying, “I Penthouse can judge and present women anyway I want but YOU as women need to shape up about your own ideas about your body and the bodies of other women.” Not cool Suzan

        It’s also really offensive to defend men making sexists jokes and telling women that men really respect women more than other women respect each other while telling women how horrible they are at the same time. No offense to men but the reason women gained equality was largely because women banned together. It wasn’t because men stood up together for women on women’s behalf. The idea that women disrespect their own gender more than men do is so counter-intuitive to what women are really about.

        “This article is full of stereotypes, which is a big problem. However it’s not uncommon to have a lot of infighting between groups of women. A job agency told me that they wish more men were in administration jobs because “It breaks up the cattyness”. ”

        No it’s not common. “Infighting between groups of women” is a stereotype used to present women negatively and falsely represent women’s true abilities and capabilities. You say this article is full of stereotypes while supporting the stereotypes that are being talked about. When you say that the article is full of stereotypes “BUT”..and then go on to explain the exact opposite, I can’t justify that.

        By the way, men can be just as catty as women. Men tend to be catty in different ways where they will talk about the hot women they were with among other men or brag about her body and what he did with her. Often men use harsh language to sound tougher and often the language isn’t really that nice when it’s directed toward women and their bodies. Men are catty. They are just catty in different ways.

        “More like some men want to FANTASIZE about having sex with other women.”
        Women have this drilled into their head pretty regularly. I don’t really know what more men want from us. It seems to me that men want to be able to think and look at all these other visuals of women and have their woman remain untouched or bothered by it. The reality is that if a woman cares about you, she is going to care about the other women you are thinking about at some point in the relationship to varying degrees. And she is going to struggle with it because while it might be natural to think of other people sexually, it is also natural to be concerned and feel insecure about your partner thinking about other women sexually. Especially when these women are perfect, airbrushed, young and gorgeous. I am so sick of being told as woman to “be confident” and to not be so judgemental while men are given free reign to support mediums that women have to struggle and fight against to begin with.

        Women get it. Seriously. Men want to fantasize about every woman that isn’t her. Basically, men would bang all kind of women if it wasn’t for his horrible, shrew of a partner that stops him from showing off his studly seed spreading ways.

        
“Agreed. In Australia our censorship laws mean magazines have to digitally perform labiaplasty to conform to standards because longer inner labia would bump the classification up from MA to R, causing many women to feel insecure about their labia. The Large Labia Project is an awesome initiative to try help women feel more secure about themselves and realize the vulva has many shapes, sizes, colours.”
        And what are they doing to teach men to show more understanding, partnership and stewardness in relating to and understanding the real women in their lives? Perhaps if men took some time away from porn and spent some time educating themselves about how to interact with real women, we’d have some more hope about the state of relationships between men and women. I’m not even saying give up porn because I understand that men need porn in their life DESPERATELY to be happy. I just ask men to spend less time with the fantasy images that best please you and spend more time finding ways to positively relate to the actual women you have actual relationships with. I know we aren’t as fun, pretty or amazingly feminine as how you wish us to be but you are stuck with us and are ugly normal bodies. Unless you are actually dating someone that modeled for Penthouse. Then your lucky because we all know that how hot your woman is is directly relational to how lucky as a man you are!

        • As a woman also, I agreed with everything you said until you stated: “men need porn in their life DESPERATELY to be happy.”

          Men do not and never will need porn to be happy. What they need is true guidance in their childhoods from adults that are open about healthy male sexuality, who will teach our children about HEALTHY sexuality. This is something we have not been getting for several generations now, and it is showing up prevalently in the rates of abuse, violence and porn usage for “sex education”. Men are angry and too ashamed to talk about it – in many of the same ways women are angry and are vocal about the things we are angry about. They need to be taught that women are not sexual objects at all times of the day, they are not a set of holes that a penis goes into for the entertainment of men. They are people and will always have feelings, vulnerabilities, strengths and dreams beyond their bodies and vaginas.

          Porn basically rewires a man’s brain to think he can have sex with all the women he sees on his computer screen, and when he masturbates to it enough it forms an addiction that can be detrimental to his sexual and mental health – which effects his self esteem even further. Men are humans. We need to stop treating them like they only think of sex and that is their only concern, and they need to stop perpetuating this degrading stereotype on themselves!

          There is and absolutely will never be anything healthy about porn until it begins to show normal, average people in happy, healthy relationships having normal, average, ho-hum everyday sex. A large amount of porn is absolute violence and filth used to degrade women. It has nothing to do with a normal relationship or normal sex. It is fulfilling twisted fantasies played out by money-hungry porn stars, agents and directors because it has become the norm and it is what sells.

          • “Porn basically rewires a man’s brain to think he can have sex with all the women he sees on his computer screen, and when he masturbates to it enough it forms an addiction that can be detrimental to his sexual and mental health – which effects his self esteem even further. Men are humans. We need to stop treating them like they only think of sex and that is their only concern, and they need to stop perpetuating this degrading stereotype on themselves!”

            How does utter misinformation like this even pass moderation? Seriously? Extremely bad femsplaining that is wrong. Do you honestly believe men looking at porn think they have a chance with all the porn stars they look at???

            “There is and absolutely will never be anything healthy about porn until it begins to show normal, average people in happy, healthy relationships having normal, average, ho-hum everyday sex. A large amount of porn is absolute violence and filth used to degrade women. It has nothing to do with a normal relationship or normal sex. It is fulfilling twisted fantasies played out by money-hungry porn stars, agents and directors because it has become the norm and it is what sells.”

            And of the last say 1000videos I’ve seen, over 95% of the were average, everyday couples doing their thing, none had violence in them, even the pro productions had depictions of sex I’ve actually had with a real live woman. But hey, continue to peddle misinformation.

            Yes a lot of porn has violence, but it’s no where even close to being the MAJORITY. Porn has been showing real normal sex for ages, google amateur porn, you can find millions.

          • Men are angry and too ashamed to talk about it – in many of the same ways women are angry and are vocal about the things we are angry about.
            This needs to be said. When it comes to sex men are angry and ashamed and despite being told that its okay for us to speak up usually that just means speak up so that they can have their words used against them to pass ill judgement on them. Men are hearing loud and clear that women don’t want to hear us out in hopes of addresses the damaging messages that men pick up. No they want men to speak up just enough to confirm the biases that they are holding against us (yes some of things are true but if you going to hold onto them rather than hearing us out you aren’t helping).

            They need to be taught that women are not sexual objects at all times of the day, they are not a set of holes that a penis goes into for the entertainment of men. They are people and will always have feelings, vulnerabilities, strengths and dreams beyond their bodies and vaginas.
            Now while this does describe the CONCLUSION of those unhealthy attitudes it doesn’t go into how they reach those conclusions. Its not like guys are going to bed one night not beliving this stuff then waking up the next morning believing it.

            Porn basically rewires a man’s brain to think he can have sex with all the women he sees on his computer screen, and when he masturbates to it enough it forms an addiction that can be detrimental to his sexual and mental health – which effects his self esteem even further.
            While in the cases of some men it can be a rewiring but in a lot of cases (especially with young boys) I don’t think its rewiring so much as unhealthy initial wiring. Take an 11 year old boy who is watching porn. Rewiring seems to imply that he not only didn’t have any of those unhealthy beliefs about sex and women but actually had a set of healthy beliefs about sex and women.

            It seems to me what is going on is with young boys who get their first exposure to sex via porn is that they really don’t have any beliefs one way or another and then the porn sets in.

        • And I must say, my brain had a spasm from reading ALL of the things that are so true for women – the concerns of being compared, the concerns with his “roving eyes” etc and then having you write that men “need” porn to be happy. You completely negated all of the negative effects porn has on normal women by stating that men are “just born that way and need porn” in a roundabout way. My brain nearly shut off.

  17. Hi

    Good !!
    I am a visual woman,and curious about why so many keep this myth alive.
    Can. It be men that want to believe it so,and why?

    Around 1900 scientist told that women did not have orgasms,only men did. This myth about women not being visual sounds to me a little like the same. Women are not really sexual beings, but madonnas.

  18. Hi Archy

    I am no expert on porn,I stay away from it,to maintain my ability to LOVE  a man( or men in general).

    Once I looked up Danish amateur porn pictures.
    What I saw was couples that only imitated the sex they had seen in porn movies. But I only looked once and am no expert on what is  out on the Internet. To protect” my inner pictures of men ” I stay away from it.

    I do not have access to recent research about the porn on the Internet today. But I do not think you will find any serious report telling us that MOST of the porn  shown online NOT violent, cruel or degrading to women. Find that research! Then we can discuss.

    I also would love if men here can give us women ten links to those porn sites that show real lovemaking the way it is pleasant both for men and women. 

    Those websites must also  guarantee that  the  porn stars in the videos are not trafficking victims,not drug dependent, not victims of childhood sexual abuse etc……
    Give us ten links and I will take a look.
    But the way I see it porn totally misses the point. The men I have had fantastic sex with are the men that excite me out of bed. Just like you can hear about in the video “mating in captivity”.

    Online porn misses what turns women on,and what for women is fantastic sexual experiences. I know nothing about gay and lesbian porn. 

    What happens sexually between two people can be so wonderful,so mind blowing,so beautiful , ,so perfect that you begin to believe that God really exist! 

    You see Archy I like you. But I am 100% certain that you will not he a good lover if you imitate the “love making” you see online. And I think you are too intelligent to do that,don’t get me wrong. You empathy will guide you…
      
    I leave it to the psychologists and brain researchers to tell us what this sexual activity does to out brains,our minds and our relationships in the future.

    For me the dream man is one that stays away from porn, and is comfortable in his own skin and not afraid to be emotionally close to a woman. He can look into a woman’s eyes when they make love, without embarrassment …

    The magic in love making wether is tender or wild is lost in porn. Most women know that that is why we speak up! It is not to stop men young and old  from experience pleasure within  their bodies. It is not!  
     

        

  19. Those websites must also guarantee that the porn stars in the videos are not trafficking victims,not drug dependent, not victims of childhood sexual abuse etc……
    Give us ten links and I will take a look.

    Question. Out of curiosity exactly what would you need to believe such a guarantee?

Trackbacks

  1. [...] This is a comment by Carlo Alcos on the post “20 Things I’ve Learned About Men from Working at Penthouse“. [...]

  2. [...] 20 things a lady learned about men while working at Penthouse. Interesting, and I’m sure eye opening for a lot of women. I like that she explains to men that most strippers aren’t prostitutes, it really irked me that many assumed this because some are. [...]

Speak Your Mind