“How often do other women give you a bone?”
Note: “Bone” means “boner” aka “erection”
Note 2: We both laughed at the question, at the honesty of it all.
The other day my fiancée asked me this question. It was actually sparked by Tom Matlack’s A Dozen Questions for Men and my absolute belief that men are not biologically driven to be monogamous. We also spoke of the “Are all men on a spectrum from homosexual to bisexual to heterosexual?” and we realized we had a much different opinion due to our living for six months in Bangkok – a place that embraces ladyboys, open sexualities and mixed genders – as opposed to spending our previous 25 years in central Pennsylvania.
“Often, I guess,” I answered. “Honestly, sometimes I’ll walk over to the grocery store just to grab us something for dinner and I’ll see a woman and I feel a little something down there. But no matter how devoted I am to you, no matter how committed, other women still give me a bone. This is how I know it’s not that my moral compass is broken, it’s that I’m a product of my biology.”
“Well, are there certain triggers? Certain types of women or things that they do that turn you on?” She paused. “I want to know because I want to do more of those things.”
“I don’t know,” I said. “Sometimes it’ll be heels or a skirt or hair or a smell or even just a women confident in herself. Sometimes, more often than not, I think, these things trigger something but then it continues with thoughts of our sex or your sexiness.”
“Well, how do you stop a bone? I mean, when you feel something down there how do you stop it so it doesn’t get full?”
“I think of my old obese grappling coach’s belly.”
“What?”
“Yup. I think of his disgusting rolls and how he must have to lift them just to clean the cheese that grows in between them.”
“Oh my gosh that’s gross!”
“That’s the point. It works!”
“Haha! Well, next time we are out can you show me who?” she said.
“Of course. But I’ll be with you so it’ll likely be from you.”
“Well, like, look around. Pretend I’m not there.”
“Okay, I’ll try.”
The openness and honesty of the conversation is one that still has us laughing. The next time we went out and she noticed a women society typically deems sexy – all done up, painted nails, loads of makeup, a tight dress – she looked over at me and nodded for me to look at this women.
“No way!” I said. “That’s what society says gives men bones. That might work for some but not me.”
“Good!” she said. “We’re learning together. This is awesome.”
The next day she brought this discussion up to her friend. “Cameron admitted he gets a bone from other women. I asked him and he was honest about it.”
“Doesn’t that piss you off? Ugh. I’d be so pissed if my boyfriend said that.”
“Not at all! He was honest and it makes me believe he’ll always be. Plus, I want to pick up some new tricks for what turns him on!”
The friend saw my fiancée’s side and they both started laughing. “I’ll go home and ask Danny,” the friend said. “We’ll have a good discussion about it.”
Now when we’re out she’ll look over at me, nod her head toward an attractive woman and say through a smile: “Bone Appétit?”
—Photo fitri.agung / Flickr
On Honesty:
The Paradox of Male Honesty
Tom Matlack hosts a Socratic Roundtable on Honesty with Joel Stein, Amanda Marcotte, Tom Miller, Dan Barrett and Todd Mauldin.
Ask an Honest Question, get an Honest Answer
Cameron Conaway’s fiancee asks him “How often do other women give you a bone?”
Honesty. Yeah, That’s an Action Word, Too.
When it comes to honesty, Lisa Hickey would rather ignore words and focus on actions.
The Curse of the Reformed Liar
A poem by Jack Varnell
About Cameron Conaway
Well, I am glad your relationship is one where the two of you can be so open with each other. My only comment is that I don’t think women are biologically wired for monogamy either. Just sayin’
Thanks Jeni,
I agree. But I also think it’s okay (essential at times) to speak of men and women individually rather than as some abstract collective generality. Just sayin’
~Cameron
Great and admirable writing here Cameron. I very much admire the ability to have such a frank and honest discussion with your partner. But then again, that may be the key word…partner. Well done and best to you both.
Hmmm…
In my experience, this doesn’t work with women. Note that’s just my experience. The reaction would generally fall into the making her angry with me category. Personally, I just don’t go there, because there’s no reward in this kind of “honesty.” In my experience, this is called “stupidity” and “insensitivity.”
That said, that’s just my experience. Other people will of course have other experiences.
I’m with you, I don’t see any reason to talk about that kind of thing. I realize that my boyfriend probably finds other women attractive, but what good does it do me to know that? It’s not like I can turn myself into a 25 year old hottie in order to compete.
Hey Jill. Could I get a thumbs up to counter that thumbs down? I hate to beg on line for comment ratings support, but it really really bugs me.
Thanks in advance!
Done!
Cameron,
Good stuff. My wife and I have the same discussions, except we laugh because we never find the same women attractive. I definitely have a certain type (redheads, pale skin, thicker/athletic build, etc) but with my wife it’s more by feel. There are no attributes that automatically qualify someone as attractive, just a general sense of “something” that works for her. I often try to guess which men and women she finds attractive and I’m seldom right. It’s kind of a fun game.
I’ve found the couples who can’t talk openly about this stuff are the ones who have deeper problems and can’t handle relationship turbulence well.
Loved the fact that you and your fiancee are able to communicate so openly with each other. Very touching and sweet! Thanks for expressing yourself so well here, on a topic that can be potentially thorny, as The Wet One points out.
And I’ll mirror what Jeni said above, I’m not sure women are so biologically wired for monogamy, either. The biological anthropologist Dr. Helen Fisher posits that our wiring has us ideally having four men available to us at any given time. (In case the saber-toothed tiger kills your main man, you have other lovers around to help ensure that your offspring survives) So her “science” goes. I always consider this when I hear the old trope from men who justify their cheating by blaming their biological nature. When I share Dr. Fisher’s assertions with them, most men are very surprised. My hope is they’ll divest themselves of the warm, fuzzy security of “knowing” their little lady is safely tucked at home crocheting potholders as a way to use that secure vantage point from which to then go out and play around.
But back to you and your boners (ahem.) It must be very assuring to you, Cameron, that your fiancee wants so much to be everything you find sexy. But I do think that ultimately she may become very tired, trying to morph into more of what turns you on. Especially when you’ve already described that quality or look in another sexy woman as amorphous, undefinable, really. Try replicating “a smell” as you put it!
I’ve tried the “I’ll be everything he finds sexy…..as soon as I can figure that out and reliably tap it.”
It doesn’t work, because of The Coolidge Effect, and precisely because most men don’t have a proscribed “type” that turns them on.
What to do when you learn your man is most turned on by dark-skinned women, for example, and you’re as white as a piece of paper? Fry yourself to a crisp in tanning salons?
Done that. Didn’t work.
He was with me because he loved ME. That’s the point I ultimately had to relax into, and have the confidence that he would stay true to our love for as long as we were destined to stay together. It’s not always easy, though. This is where a man can help out a LOT and tell her you find her sexy, as you already do.
So, to your fiancee, I’d say: Forget all the other women. If he’s marrying you, it’s likely he’s already sexually very happy with you.
And I loved Amanda Marcotte’s answer in the first question of Tom Matlack’s article today: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/the-paradox-of-male-honesty/
“The most important thing is not to exploit the fact that women are socialized to be accomodating, but instead treating a woman with the same attentiveness and graciousness you’d want for yourself”.
And the fact that you’re outspoken about not using porn, Cameron, tells me a lot about you and your approach to intimacy. Between your fiancee’s being so accommodating and you being so committed to what I find to be pretty high values in relationship, if I were officiating at your wedding, I’d lay bets on your marriage lasting a long time! Just keep that image of the cheesy rolls of your coach’s belly always handy
Lili Bee,
Love your response here, as always. But I think it missed (or I didn’t write it in enough) the joking nature of this. My fiancee is totally confident in her own sexiness, has no desire to morph into someone or something else, and is totally aware of how strongly and passionately I feel about the qualities that make her beautiful.
That said, we’re both totally open and acknowledging that we each, as humans, have the potential to be attracted to other humans. I was asked to write a piece on honesty and because this conversation happened the other day I felt it fitting.
~Cameron
P.S. We both laughed out loud at your final sentence!
Cameron, I think maybe the key is that you and your finance are both young and consider yourselves to be sexy and attractive. If your finance is incredibly hot and totally confident in how incredibly hot she is, of course she probably won’t care if you are attracted to other women. But most people on this planet are nothing but average (that, after all, is the definition of average), and for those of us who are a less confident in our ability to please are partners because we have a lot less to offer, the conversation you describe could be emotionally devastating.
Jill,
Point taken. Thank you. We’re confident about how we feel about each other, but we’ve got the same insecurities as everyone else. I see what you’re saying and I’m so grateful you shared this perspective.
~Cameron
I put this in the category of “stuff I don’t need to know.” Would my boyfriend like it if I told him what guys make me hot? I don’t think so.
Jill,
Of course he wouldn’t like it. I think you’re assuming from this article that every human being I find attractive I point out and rub in my fiancee’s face. That simply isn’t the case and would be harmful for the relationship and disrespectful regardless of which partner brings it up. We’d never do that to each other. But to flat-out say no, if your boyfriend asked, that you have the potential to be physically attracted to other people in the world? That’s just as dangerous. And, likely, it’s an absolute lie.
~Cameron
Cameron,
I understand your point, but having the potential to be attracted to other people is different than discussing “what kind of person (other than you) makes me hot.” I just don’t see the need to talk about it at all in a healthy relationship. Honesty is great but there are some things I’d rather not know about. I guess what I’m saying is that in a relationship, you should try to build your partner up, to the extent possible, and not tear them down by comparing them to others who are more desirable. We all know that others are more desirable, but why dwell on it? It just leads to heartache.
Jill,
I agree with you 100%. It’s not healthy to tear down and compare. And it’s super important to build up. We do none of the former and all of the latter.
~Cameron
I think there is some value to having such conversations as it does give the other partner an idea of what their partner likes. But I think there are limits to how much reward there is in this before it goes into the territory that Erin has pointed out in past threads about porn. There’s a difference between, “Oh you like ___? Well let’s try that everyone once in a while.” and “If I don’t ____ then he’s/she’s not going to be pleased with me.”
I with you on the talking openly about attraction and the fact that we get attracted to other people. And about how attraction and acting on it is not the same.
But I’m puzzled by the need for biological-deterministic explanations. You get attracted to other women – but why tuck that under “all men are like that” and “it’s not my doing, it’s my biological wiring”. To me, that kind of explanation always sounds like trying to avoid responsibility for oneself. Not at all a man thing.
Like you, I’m attracted to others – both visually and in other ways. I don’t know if all men (or women) are like that. I don’t know if monogamy is “natural” for men (or women). And I don’t think it’s very important. I know what I am, and I think it’s good and healthy. Nothing wrong with, nothing wrong if my partner is the same. Sure – there might be women (and men) who wouldn’t want a partner who feel like I do. No problem – lots of fish in the pond. It’s far from the only thing about me that will be a dealbreaker to some people.
I’m glad you found a partner who clicks with you. That’s what really matters.
Lars,
Thanks for the feedback here. I see how you could see it coming off as an excuse, as though it’s “Well, it’s my biology so get used to it.” Humans need to eat, we are driven to reproduce, we are born with certain colors of skin and hair…it’s all the same. I don’t see getting attracted to other women and stating how it has biological roots as avoiding anything. It’s an acknowledgment. Avoiding the acknowledgment is where I think avoidance issues come in. And I don’t think it’s reasonable to say, “Well, I’m this way but I don’t know about others,” because we do know about others. That’s like saying, “Well, I walk using my legs but I’m not sure about others.” Of course, we can’t say all men have a certain characteristic, but I’d say the vast majority of other guys out there are just like me.
As for you not thinking it’s important, I guess I disagree. For me, it’s important to think about ideas and science and things outside of what’s right in my face. It started this discussion and I think it was important just because of that. For connecting with you on here.
You’re right on about what really matters.
~Cameron
So obviously not married.
I happen to think that its great that you guys can be this open and honest with each other. If there were more relationships like yours, without either side having to lie and cover things up, I think you would see a higher success rate in marriages, etc. I am constantly asking my male friends, questions about what they think about all different subjects regarding women, and I have to admit, it is pretty refreshing to hear some of their answers, because they are not the stereo-typical answers that we have come to expect from men, due to the various articles we read in women’s magazines. Nice job.
I would rather not know which women my husband is attracted to. For me, it’s better not to have this discussion.
I don’t think being open about the subject makes a relationship better or worse. The important thing is to know how much information you both want and act on that. Just be wise enough not to ask unless you really want to know.
I think about Rosie O’Donnell eating hot dogs. I’m dead serious too.
I guess I think this probably isn’t a good idea.
I don’t think trying to look like women that turn your boyfriend on is great. Asking what someone wants in bed is good. So is asking them if they like an outfit, but trying to look like someone else seems off to me.
Then there’s the problem of what will happen when she finds out that you’re attracted to some women who don’t look anything like her. Sooner or later this can lead to bad feelings.
The other thing is the question sounds to me like maybe the woman wants more sex or romance. Maybe she’s feeling a little taken for granted and is trying to figure out what she can do to get her boyfriend to notice her. Maybe she’s worried that other women are turning him often than she does.
Cameron, an enjoyable and interesting read.
Are there any real hook-up sites where you can “REALLY” meet a woman/women??? I’ve wasted way to much money & time on “Scam” sites; I would “REALLY” appreciate the “HONEST TRUTH”. I’ve BEEN SINGLE 4 “WAY WAY” to long!!
Great article.. if you’re looking for another way to get good answers, feedback, you should try using http://www.Formvote.com , a new social network just for that. Pretty cool.