The vision of manhood perpetuated by the hyper-masculine ideology is one where men are little better than chimps, and Harris O’Malley wants to know why more men aren’t insulted by it.
The topic of masculinity is one I come back to over and over again because it’s a long-running question for many men. The search for an identity and finding one’s own definition of what it means to be a man is an important part of maturity for young men, one that has been with us through most of recorded history. The question of the role and meaning of masculinity is especially strong in younger men – men in their late teens and early twenties – as they strike out to find their own place in the world. It’s only natural to look to the world around us for gender cues and role-models to guide us through the thorny questions of gender identity1 and the role to take in the world.
With the ubiquity of mass-communication – whether it be magazines, newspapers, movies, television or the Internet – it’s not surprising that many men look to popular culture for sources of information what male behavior is supposed to be and how we’re supposed to display it.
Unfortunately, mass media doesn’t send the greatest of messages about how to be a man. In fact, we are regularly bombarded with messages selling2 the idea that masculinity is violent, physically aggressive and sexually domineering and that anger and stoic toughness are the only appropriate emotions for men to display. Male-oriented advertising is targeting young and impressionable men looking for guidance… so it’s time to take a look at just what they’re selling.
Manhood For Sale
Amanda Hess’ article in Slate Magazine alerted me to a study examining just how masculinity is pitched to young men. In the most recent issue of the journal Sex Roles, psychologists from the University of Manitoba examined the prevalence of hypermasculinity – the ideology of exaggerated male traits as the epitome of masculine identity – in advertisements in popular men’s magazines including Maxim, Playboy, Game Informer, Fortune, Esquire and Wired. Hypermasculinity portrays violence and physical aggression as manly ideals; it promotes a world where all of male life is a struggle of dominance of others, where sex is a matter of power and female submission rather than one of intimacy and mutual pleasure and that any “feminine” emotions are to be repressed.
The researchers kept track of ads that fit into the definition of hypermasculine – ads that showed men as violent, physically aggressive, hypersexual or participating in “dangerous” activities for the thrill of it all – and cross-referenced them with the demographics that the magazines targeted. For those of you who like to crunch the math, the methodology can be found in the report – it’s a tad involved but the end results were interesting. Over half of ads in men’s magazines presented over-the-top imagery from hypermasculine ideology – upwards of 90% in some magazines like Game Informer. Moreover, hypermasculine imagery was predominantly aimed at two audiences: younger men (adolescents and men in their early 20s) and older working-class men without college educations.
These two groups were, in many ways, the most easily influenced. Neither have much in the way of disposable income; in fact, a higher income level of the magazine’s target audience correlated with fewer ads depicting exaggerated male behavior. Younger men are more often the ones seeking out their identity. They are more likely to look to others for ideas of gender presentation, and thus they are the ones whose behavior is more likely to be influenced by media and reinforced by their peer group. Meanwhile, the blue-collar workers tend to be ones who feel disempowered and disenfranchised by society; they are more likely to lack popular indicators of social value such as financial success or social influence. As a result, they are more likely to look for alternative means of gaining respect and influence from one’s peers – physical toughness, macho behavior, violence and aggression.
In both cases – the youth and the working-class men – are looking to fill a void. The younger men are trying to find their place in the world and are seeking guidance as they work towards how to be men. Meanwhile the older men are often feel as though they have been cheated and that others are benefiting from something that’s being denied to them, thus they want to re-establish their manhood. Advertisers are well aware of this and craft their message with supposed ideals of masculine identity; “Feeling insufficiently manly?” they ask. “This product will make you the man you’ve always known you could be.”
Marketing and the Gender Police
Genderads – where I’ve found most of the examples I’ve used in this article – is a reponsitory of hypermasculine imagery in advertising… and it’s genuinely disturbing to visit. It drives home just how often we’re sold on the idealization of these masculine stereotypes. When the imagery becomes as prevalent as it has, it almost becomes subliminal; we know it’s there and what it’s saying but we don’t consciously perceive it. It has become the background noise of our day to day lives that we absorb it passively, without thinking about the context or what messages it sends.
Hypermasculine ideology reinforces a culture that permits a very narrow expression of male identity. The message carried by the imagery is that men are defined by conflict and violence. Every interaction between men is one of a struggle for dominance. There are no equals, only the dominant and the submissive.
Women, on the other hand, are things. They are to be desired, yes, but not as partners or equal participants in life; they are trophies, proof of one’s superior masculinity. The men in these ads don’t value the women for their personality, their minds, their ability to make them laugh… they are at best ornamental. At worst, they are playthings – pets even – to be used however a man cares to, regardless of their wishes.
Moreover, it’s important that women are implied to be for men’s sexual use at any time. Men, you see, are hypersexual. To be a man is to be a satyr, rampantly virile and voracious in appetite. A man is defined by his steely hard-on as much – if not more – than by his muscles or his toughness. A man is ready to fuck in a bare instant. If you aren’t able to have an erection so hard that you could fuck concrete in the blink of an eye… well shit son, you’re just not a man.
Mind you, these are very strict heterosexual standards. The story of manhood in these messages is one of a very narrowly defined form of heteronormativity; to deviate even slightly from this model of manhood is to be feminine, which is a fate worse than anything short of emasculation.
The constant underlying subtext is that if you don’t meet the implied definition of manliness, you’re a fag; you have given up your identity as a (dominant) male to take on the subservient, female role. In this ideology, being gay is almost worse than being a woman, since it’s a man choosing to be penetrated – and thus, dominated – rather than the one in charge. To not be in absolute control is to be lesser. Anything with a whiff of femininity – including the expression of any emotions (besides anger or stony indifference that is), caring about one’s appearance or even drinking the wrong beverages – is to be violently repressed.
In addition, the life of a man is a physical one, with minimal investment or worth given to any life path that doesn’t involve hunting, ranching or building. There is, in fact, a distinct anti-intellectual thread to the ideology of hypermasculinity; men live lives of action and thrilling danger. Those thinkers with their “refined” tastes and “office” jobs are the betas to the rough-and-tumble alphas.
The point of the intellectual or the “suit” is to give way to the real men, the ones who do the real work.
Underlying all of these messages is an implied threat: be a man…or else. Anything less than the pinacle of the manly ideal is seen as grounds for punishment – being exiled from the company of men, denied the fruits of masculinity, or even violent reprisal.
The Consequences of the Cult of Manliness
It is tempting to write all of this off as someone trying to create a problem where there is none. These are, after all, just advertisements; nobody looks at an ad for Diesel jeans or sunglasses and suddenly decides to go out and smack around some bitches, right bro?
Ads by their very definition are designed to influence you; the whole point of advertisements is to sell products and services – in this case, by equating said products or services with over the top stereotypes of the “ideal” of masculine identity. They serve as a socializing agent, spreading those ideals through continuous exposure. The constant stream of imagery may not directly establish the social norms for masculinity but theydo reinforce the belief, just as pop culture continually portraying African-American males as thugs, thieves, drug dealers, and murderers reinforces already extant racist stereotypes. The continuous social reinforcement of the hyper-masculine ideal in marketing helps internalize the belief that this is how men should be.
And yet, those very same beliefs have profoundly negative effects on men and in society. Studies have found that hypermasculinity is correlated with physicaly abusive relationships and sexual aggression against women. Prisoners convicted of violent crimes were also found to have a high hypermasculinity index. The perpetuation and reinforcement of men as sexually dominant and women as passive, impersonal receptacles contributes to the rape culture that insists that men are unable to control their own sexuality and thus it is the duty of women to not be raped.
When Zerlina Maxwell went on the Sean Hannity show on Fox News, she proposed the radical3 idea that rather than arming women, the appropriate way to help end rape and sexual assault was to end a culture where men are taught that they have no responsibility. The result was immediate and – sadly – somewhat predictable. Maxwell was insulted, belittled and subject to continual harassment because “rapists just aren’t going to listen.” But that presumes that all rapists are strangers, assaulting women from the bushes. Most rapists aren’t strangers; they are men who grow up to believe that – as in the Stubenville rape case – “not saying no” is equal to a de-facto “yes”.
Consider that Game Informer is a magazine aimed at a young audience. The price of gender non-compliance amongst young men can be harsh and often violent – thus they are already incentivized to believe that they too need to be suitably “tough”and “manly” or risk being ostracized, bullied or even assaulted. The barrage of messages helps confirm and reinforce the hypermasculine ideal that men are to be dominant and aggressive, that sex is something that is available to you by default and that take not “no” for an answer is a good thing. It fortifies a culture where boys think that it’s ok to take a girl who is intoxicated to the point of near unconsciousness, carry her limp body around, penetrate her, try to force her to perform oral sex and then urinate and ejaculate on her… and then express regret only that pictures were taken and shared with others. Even worse, the culture teaches bystanders not to interfere – because boys will be boys after all – and for other men to actively enable their crime by placing the blame on the victim.
Don’t get me wrong: nobody is suggesting that Game Informer or Playboy are responsible for men becoming rapists. But they are influences on the social ideals of masculinity and the development of these attitudes and we need to be aware of the messages they market to us.
The Insult To Men
There will no doubt be the wags – mighty armchair warriors, they – who will insist that these are the complaints of a “beta” who is whining about the macho assholes who stole his girlfriend. More power to them if they choose to believe this.
I, on the other hand would like to know why they don’t find any of this insulting.
The vision of manhood perpetuated by the hyper-masculine ideology is one where men are little better than chimps. The world of hyper-masculinity is one where life is brutish, stupid and short. All male interactions are a forms of aggression and dominance display; “toughness” masquerades as discipline and male friendships cannot exist because emotional intimacy are frowned upon for fear of being too feminine. Men in this ideology are disconnected from their emotions – love does not exist except in the desire for material goods (a man’s love for his truck) or one’s pet (a man’s love for his dog). Women are not equals; they are measuring sticks for one’s worth – except for when they become dominant over men, at which point they become threats to masculinity.
A man in this ideology has next to no control over his impulses. He is ruled by his genitals and his need to gain the respect of others through violence and the pursuit of danger. He is utterly at the mercy of his base instincts: the need to fuck, the need to eat, the need to accumulate goods. He is powerless to resist them and logic, restraint, and rational thought all fall by the wayside. If these are the values that you think define what it means to be a man… well, you are sad, strange little beings and you have my pity.
Moreover, the ads conflating these ideals are telling you that manhood is virtually worthless! By tying masculine power, respect and manhood to commerce, you strip the value from it. What prize is there to manhood when it no longer has to be earned or built from the ground up? What value is there to be had when manhood can be purchased, rather than earned through sweat, fear, perseverance, determination, growth, courage and experience? Who is truly a man when manhood is no longer won but sold?
Personally, I value being a man too much to let it be insulted, marginalized and commodified like this.
And so should you.
Originally appeared at Paging Dr. NerdLove
- by which I mean the definitions of masculinity and femininity, not whether a person identifies with the gender of their birth [↩]
- literally [↩]
- he said, sarcastically [↩]
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Interesting article.
The ads, most of them anyway, are disturbing.
However…..the prevalence of this hyper-masculinity is questionable.
I don’t think I know of a single person that has these exaggerated, sexist ideals about women, and I know LOTS of men.
I don’t doubt there are men out there that think this way, but I highly, highly doubt they are in the majority.
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okay this is too easy.. everyone chill out and just be who you are and show your true colors and recognize that all the marketing is a bunch of lies and propaganda based on a debt society of fake jobs .. I been around the block a time or two.. I have my own journey too of hardships and breakups etc.. It is time to change and be transparent and accountable for yourselves .. Man or Woman or whatever you believe you are .. that is what you are. So be happy and don’t pay attention to all the lies… Read more »
I am extremely considerate, kind, loving, and thoughtful. I rate Healer- (Variant) 2-3% of pop. on wiki, and am an unusually good partner. Middle aged, respect and kindness are a death sentence. I am always starting conversations, I like women, I like to talk…but I am too nice, too smart, too old 58. Have not had a girlfriend in ages. I will die celibate but a very nice guy….just bitter
Aww come on guy- I know dudes ugly enough to scare a dog off a meat wagon who are tearing it up on match.com, christianmingle etc….
“Hypermasculine ideology reinforces a culture that permits a very narrow expression of male identity” _____________________________________________________ Huh? I am not sure what planet the author inhabits but the image of men that is overwhelmingly prevalent is of the foolish, passive, pathetic, frightened, giiggly child-man – in contrast to the powerful and assured woman. Those images are everywhere. They are unavoidable. They pervade the culture. You have to search very hard to come up with the examples the author gives. I agree that they are rubbish – but they are a very tiny minority. Does anyone on this earth seriously believe we… Read more »
THe view that nice guys are really just not confident enough and don`t have enough spine etc. and not punished for being nice per se is both a valualbe input in the nice guy vs bad boy debate but it also covers up the real underlying issue. It provides important insight because a lot of guys are actually just using “niceness” as a suplicating seeling strategy because they are not confident and are too afraid to stand up for themselves etc. They are not acting out of their good heart but out of fear and self interest. Getting over these… Read more »
Well if you are right then why get angry at women? we’re just brainless automatons following our genetic programming.
Why would I want to date a woman who has her “fun” then wants to settle down and “settle” for a nicer guy?
I think the younger generation of men are wise to this trap and are not falling for it. Think of all the 30 something “Professional’ women who complain that they can’t find ‘suitable’ mate material. They piss and moan about how men are ‘scared’ of their success. My Daughter, who’s happily married herself, complains about the problem her friends have in this regard. I really don’t think that anyone is scared or intimidated by anyones success. It’s more like these ‘Prime catch Beta types’ are saying “No thanks, you wouldn’t give me the time of day for the last 10… Read more »
Sure if a woman in particular ignored you then you don’t need to pay them attention, but would you class all similar women as the same? When young people don’t always make good choices. I won’t date a woman who ignores me in her 20’s then wants me in the 30’s cuz she is desperate, but there are plenty of women who may have chosen poorly but aren’t choosing “beta’s” cuz they are desperate but because they themselves matured and want something else.
Or maybe they dated the “alphas” in their 20’s because those were the guys who pursued them, and as I said in an earlier comment, women tend to prefer active vs. passive men and most women are not comfortable being the initiator, Maybe when the shyer/more passive guys reach their 30’s, they have matured and become more confident, and now they are more attractive to women.
I’d say it’s a wide mix of all things said. SOoooo many variables in life, it’s impossible to cover all bases.
Preferring the active guys is both a socialized preference and a “wow, you’re giving me gifts, you shouldn’t have” thing where few would renounce it, lest it’s truly a problem to them.
I’d love to get free stuff for doing nothing too, most people would. Free being-hit-on works the same.
It’s the low-hanging fruit. But then don’t complain you get bad choices or violent people. Aggressive people tend to have more dating success. Something to ponder.
That is a pre-feminist view of women. And of men. You are not comfortable being the initiator? I think that is normal. But I am not a feminist. The vast majority of men have been taught that to initiate or to take charge or to take control or even to express a strong opinion is offensive to women and that masculinity itself is something to be ashamed of. Feminism teaches women to be powerful and aggressive and men to be passive and soft. The young generations are learning their lessons well. So why are you surprised that men are passive?… Read more »
Mind you, these are very strict heterosexual standards. The story of manhood in these messages is one of a very narrowly defined form of heteronormativity; to deviate even slightly from this model of manhood is to be feminine, which is a fate worse than anything short of emasculation. The constant underlying subtext is that if you don’t meet the implied definition of manliness, you’re a fag; you have given up your identity as a (dominant) male to take on the subservient, female role. This quote supports the notion that it’s not feminity that is devalued, it’s failing maleness. A failed… Read more »
As one of the under educated blue collar older guys, I can assure you we’re not all as easily influenced as you seem to think. Unless perhaps, you feel as if without a group of letters after your name it’s impossible to think for yourself and see most advertising for what it is, pure 100percent bulls$&t! No, most of what I learned about being a man didn’t come from some magazine but from the men in my life, mostly my father.
While I don’t necessarily disagree with the thesis, I am not sure that all of the examples chosen support your supposition. While the Calvin Klein ad does suggest a stylized gang rape, the Valentino ad impresses me as being merely playful. The male mannequins in the Dolce & Gabana ad hardly personify hyper-masculinity: Rather they are androgynous abstractions, mere objects in the composition. Whatever suggestion of sexual domination there is in the D&G ad seems to me to be aimed more at a female rather than male audience – and with Fifty Shades of Grey and its sequels being national… Read more »
Women are not equals; they are measuring sticks for one’s worth I think our culture also encourages this with the way the dating scene is set up. The man is expected to initiate things with the woman and somehow convince her that he is worthy of her time. On dates the onus is often on him to ensure that they have a good time. A man who succeeds often in doing this has proven his worth while those who don’t are failures. I think sex comes into the equation as well. Women generally do not orgasm as easily as men… Read more »
I think for me, it’s not that I want a man to dominate me, but I want a man who will at least meet me half way. Excessive passivity is not an attractive quality, I don’t like hanging out with women who are too passive, either. I’ve lived in Silicon Valley for 20 years so I know many, many guys who are shy and have trouble with women. The root of their problem, often, is passivity. When I’m with a guy like that, I might think he’s cute and sweet, but I’m always wondering, if I went ahead and made… Read more »
So you’re asking for something you know you can’t offer?
I can dig that, if you recognize it for what it is.
I’m shy and unable to take charge. I look for people who are more likely to take charge.
I don’t blame any group for being passive, or not confident enough, or think men being passive is some pathology.
I’m not passive myself, that’s the point. I’m a very take charge person. I’m an attorney! That’s why I can’t be with someone passive. I’ll roll over him.
“I’m not passive myself, that’s the point. I’m a very take charge person. I’m an attorney! That’s why I can’t be with someone passive. I’ll roll over him.” I don’t get that. Lots of passive women are looking for “take charge” men (to state the most socially recognized combination), are they getting rolled over? Having two submissive people generally means nothing happens. Having two dominant people generally has a clash at the top for who leads. High conflict. Having one of each usually works out, as long as both are generally healthy mentally. I’m a submissive type, and a kind… Read more »
A shy guy may open up fully if given a chance. Let’s say they are shy, a virgin, date them for a while, have sex and they will probably have far more confidence than before. I definitely became more confident after losing my virginity and being with a woman.
I understand your position, but I do wonder how it would be if all men thought the way you do. Going on dates, holding hands, kissing, and sex are all things that a good number of women expect men to initiate and most men play that role. What if they decided, “You know if I start initiating all of those things, then I’ll have to initiate everything and thats no fun”. Except usually they don’t have that choice. You say you want to be with someone who feels like an equal, so doesn’t that mean that you and he will… Read more »
I think initiating 50-50 is an ideal situation for me. (Everyone is different of course. Maybe in Dom-sub relationships, it’s completely different. But I’m not into that. I have pretty mainstream sexual tastes.). Anyway, what I meant was that I just don’t like being with a man who never initiates anything. It puts all the pressure on me and I hate it. I understand that men also feel that pressure and sometimes they’d like the woman to take charge. I get that completely. I’m willing to be the aggressive one sometimes as part of a healthy and varied sex life.… Read more »
Cute- are women & children treated any differently in advertising?
Have you not noticed all the bumbling & awkward Dad Ads?
Good article. I think we all have to be aware of the impact of advertising and the images they portray about how we live. In his excellent book, Winning the Story Wars: Why those who tell–and live–the best stories will rule the future, Jonah Sachs describes the power of today’s marketers and the need to develop new stories (or reconnect with old ones) that speak to the truly heroic spirit of what it means to be human in today’s world. Let’s stand up for our manhood and support new stories. How about we start with finding ads that portray men… Read more »
Point to consider: hyper masculinity cannot exist without hyper femininity and vice versa. Chest puffing behavior is a mirror image of chest push up behavior.
As a high femme married to another femme, I beg to differ
For the majority of the population though, the OP would probably be right. 2x femme is the rarity.
I don’t think she meant as in couples.
More as in like extreme behavior A cannot exist without extreme behavior B, in a sort of “no light without darkness” stuff.
Masculinity has to contrast with something, so it’s defined oppositionally to feminity (and yes I purposely don’t use a ‘ni’, like in French, as doubling the ni makes no sense to me).
Masculinity is defined as “not feminity”. Or used to anyway. Now since feminity can be anything, masculinity is defined as “risky, boorish, rugged behavior”, behavior society doesn’t see happening in women as much.
This was a breath of fresh air. I can’t believe how many times a day I find myself assaulted with a message of masculinity that offends my sense of identity. What I don’t understand is how people can be up in arms over so many trivial things and completely unaware of the hurt and pain ads and billboards and television and radio have on most of us men. It can be as damaging to our hearts and minds as Victoria Secret is to women.
I totally agree with you Ironing John. Unfortunetly, just like women feed into the image Victoria Secrets deliver, a lot of men feed into these ultra-masculine pictorial tributes as well. Not too long ago, there was an article about men that were angered by stereotypes made in a Huggies commerical against Dads. Men responded and the next commerical Huggies did was much more Pro-Dad. Unfortunetly, when it comes to more sexually aggressive media, not enough men speak up because it plays off their sexual desires and triggers pleasure for them. The truth is that things like Maxim don’t do either… Read more »
Maybe the reason those who protested the Huggies ad don’t seem to care about these other ads is that THEY DON’T CARE! When I was busy changing diapers, making bottles, and giving baths(yeah,I did all that stuff) I wasn’t concerned with what Playboy, Maxim, or Dolce and whatever had to say ! And today I could still care less! I knew I had to be the best Father I possibly could to my children . THAT’S what’s important. THAT’S what being a MAN is all about!
“Love does not exist except in the desire for material goods….women are not equals….they are measuring stick’s for one’s worth….” Wow—- this is really brilliant and insightful writing! While I was walking my kid to school on my way to my commuter train, I spotted the toxic English drunk who used to be friends with my husband also heading the same way….this describes him perfectly….and how sad that my husband and I really tried to reach out to him and his second wife…but ultimately, it wasn’t about friendship or love or anything….he was playing games and taking out his anger… Read more »
I both agree and disagree with NL’s article. On the one hand, I know that the idea of masculinity where men must always be dominant and never supplicating can be harmful. I’ve seen firsthand how guys in my friend group play status games with each other in order to “control the frame.” Always having to be on your guard for “sh*t tests” (even among your own male friends) can be very exhausting. That being said, I disagree with the fundamental premise of this article. The premise being that aggressive, domineering masculinity is toxic, especially in the light of the fact… Read more »
Fifty Shades Of Grey is popular because women buy into myths about masculinity too. My husband is sensitive, caring and completely respectful of my boundaries (and I’m a BDSM submissive). To me a guy who’s pushy, and socially domineering comes off as pathetic, and way less confident than a guy who’s respectful towards me, after all if he’s so *confident* why does he feel the need to push me around, and why can’t he be polite? It just seems gross and compensatory to me. The nice guy TMs are pushy and that’s their problem, not that they’re not pushy enough.… Read more »
Frankly, I think the whole notion of “Nice Guy TMs” is a load of crap. Same thing with “entitlement.” From what I’ve gathered, they’re not “entitled” to hot women. Most are simply sexually frustrated and bitter because everything they’ve been taught with regard to how to win women (ie. win your way to her heart, be nice, etc) has proven to be a lie. When you’re a nice, respectful guy, and you see douchebags getting girlfriends and sex with ease, it’s only natural that you’re going to wonder. I would hardly say that they’re too pushy. If anything, they’re too… Read more »
I think the problem is that there are 2 types of “nice guy tm”, the frustrated ones, and the entitled ones. It’s also pretty clear to me that a lot of women are out of touch with those men, I often see a woman say a guy feels entitled when really the guy is frustrated and doesn’t feel entitled but feels despair that nothing he has done has helped his chances at love. Very few of the nice guys are actually entitled, most are just frustrated by the plethora of bad advice given to them by many women who say… Read more »
Here’s what guys like you don’t get, you don’t win a woman’s heart, if she’s not into you, she’s not into you. You can turn her off if she was previously into you, but you can’t turn her on if there was nothing there to start. NiceguyTMs believe the myth of “winning her heart” they’re too cowardly to directly state their feelings and so they make grand romantic gestures before a woman has had a chance to see if she likes them, this makes women feel obligated, and nothing is less sexy than feeling obligated. That’s not passivity, that’s viewing… Read more »
<blockquoteHere’s what guys like you don’t get, you don’t win a woman’s heart, if she’s not into you, she’s not into you. You can turn her off if she was previously into you, but you can’t turn her on if there was nothing there to start. Maybe thats how you feel, but I don’t think you should speak for everyone. I’ve seen women admit they didn’t like their boyfriends when they first met them or found them very annoying, but grew to like them over time. One of my mother’s friends said her husband asked her out several times before… Read more »
I’ve seen women admit they didn’t like their boyfriends when they first met them or found them very annoying, but grew to like them over time. Exactly, which is why guys (including PUA’s) tell each other that in order to succeed with women you have to be persistent and pushy. Just imagine if all men followed Madeira’s advice and gave up on the women the second she showed any indication of not liking him. They would be languishing in involuntary celibacy for quite some time. She also doesn’t seem to take into account that many women play games and often… Read more »
Guys who complain about women stringing them along are often just bad at reading signals. I’ve told guys point blank that they had no shot with me, that they weren’t my type, and they’ve later accused me of leading them on (for example a guy who I liked talking about history and art with accused me of this, because he helped me move, he was my friend, I would have done the same for him, and because I made him cookies in return for helping me move… again we were friends). I’d told this guy time and again, I wasn’t… Read more »
Guys who complain about women stringing them along are often just bad at reading signals I agree, but those aren’t the guys I’m talking about. I’m talking about the guys who get intentionally led on. I’ve seen this happen before and most of the time, I knew for a fact that the woman knew what she was doing because she joked about it with her friends behind the guys back . Why do they allow it to happen? Different reasons. Sometimes they make their intentions known to the girl who responds by telling them they don’t want to rush into… Read more »
I’d still be scared to be alone with a woman like that… it just seems like a recipe for acquiring a stalker, or causing a suicide.
To me it just seems like “if you have to be pushy, they’re probably bad news”
“Guys who complain about women stringing them along are often just bad at reading signals. I’ve told guys point blank that they had no shot with me, that they weren’t my type, and they’ve later accused me of leading them on (for example a guy who I liked talking about history and art with accused me of this, because he helped me move, he was my friend, I would have done the same for him, and because I made him cookies in return for helping me move… again we were friends). I’d told this guy time and again, I wasn’t… Read more »
“You can turn her off if she was previously into you, but you can’t turn her on if there was nothing there to start.” You seem to be viewing women as this being that has to intitially be attracted or it will never happen. If there was nothing there to start, it CAN COME LATER. “NiceguyTMs believe the myth of “winning her heart” they’re too cowardly to directly state their feelings and so they make grand romantic gestures before a woman has had a chance to see if she likes them, this makes women feel obligated, and nothing is less… Read more »
One will find things pretty much the same in urban gay male culture: The nice guys, the ones with good hearts, are the one’s that have the hardest time dating and finding a mate — and I speak as one that had a fatal attraction to bad boys in my youth, and only turned to the nice guys in my early 30s out desperation.