Hugo Schwyzer explains why guys are so preoccupied with getting women’s sex stats—and why they should just let it go.
Judging from what I read online and hear from my students, the question of the “number” is as compelling as ever. This month, Marie Claire ran an article, “What’s Your Number?” in which five women (whose numbers ranged from zero to 100) told their stories. The March issue of Cosmopolitan Australia features the same discussion, noting that 59 percent of readers surveyed thought knowing a partner’s exact number was important, and that 33 percent of those same readers had lied about their own pasts, claiming fewer sexual partners than they’d actually had.
(A quick note: most people use “the number” to refer to the count of people with whom they’ve had heterosexual intercourse. Any kind of sex that doesn’t involve a penis inside a vagina usually “doesn’t count.” A lot of us are like Bill Clinton in that regard, not seeing oral sex as real sex. This is a very limited—and limiting—understanding of what sex really is. But that’s a topic for another day.)
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It’s understandable to be curious about the sexual lives of our peers. It makes sense to want to know what the averages are. (According to the experts at the Kinsey Institute, the average number of lifetime sexual partners for men aged 30 to 44 is around seven, while for women in that same age group, it’s four—both lower than you might think).
But the number has different meanings for men and women. The old double standard is still alive and well: a man with more
sexual partners than his buddies may be teasingly called a “man whore,” but the epithet is a compliment, not an insult. Ask a woman who has dared reveal her number to someone who considers it too high, and she’ll surely tell you a story of being “slut-shamed.”
It’s quite common for a guy to worry about a girlfriend’s sexual past. Too many men are still raised to see sex as crude competition, in which bedding a woman who has already had a lot of lovers counts less than scoring with a woman who is “hard to get.” But I think the average guy’s worry is simpler than that. The more men his girlfriend has slept with, the greater number of lovers to which she can compare his skills. It’s easier to win a contest against two than against 20, he figures. And even easier to rank first when he’s the only one to have ever played the game. No wonder so many men—in this country and around the world—are obsessed with finding a virgin.
This is the real reason why so many men get so filled with rage at sexually experienced women. And of course, it’s the real reason so many women feel compelled to lie about their number.
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Too many women have told their boyfriends their real number, only to be nagged incessantly for explicit details. (One friend of mine recounted to me in horror how her current boyfriend stopped one day in the middle of giving her oral sex to ask how his technique compared.) Other women find that their boyfriends endlessly psychoanalyze the reasons for a number that they think is too high: “Did you sleep with so many men because your father left you when you were a child?” (If I had a dollar for every woman I know who’s been asked that question, I could buy everyone reading this a Slurpee. Seriously.)
At this point, some men are probably protesting: “But I don’t slut-shame or endlessly analyze. For me, it’s not all about competing with other guys. Isn’t the number an important thing to know about someone you might be serious about? Isn’t it something I have a right to know?”
That sounds reasonable. But again, why is it so important to know an exact number? What difference does it make? Knowing whether a potential girlfriend has ever been in love before is important; discovering (slowly and patiently) how her past experiences have impacted her view of men (for better or worse) is important. But really, what’s the difference whether she’s slept with four or 14 men? She isn’t defined by her number—and if there’s a chance you might change how you see her when you discover the truth (should she tell you), why ask?
This has nothing to do, by the way, with asking about sexual health. It’s a great idea to talk about sexually transmitted infections; it’s a great idea for a new couple to get tested before having unprotected sex. We have a right to know if a potential partner has herpes. But the exact number itself is altogether different.
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I lost my virginity at 17 to my high-school girlfriend. She was a year younger but much more sexually experienced. She was my first for anything that went below the waist; I was the fifth guy she’d had sex with. I’d asked her number, of course, and then fought hard not to obsess about the four boys who had “been there” before me. But I saw the pain my questions caused her. And I came to realize that it didn’t matter.
I don’t know my wife’s number. I’ve never asked her. She’s never asked for mine. I know enough from the stories she’s told to know that there was more than one guy before me; she knows enough about my past to figure out that she can’t count my lovers on her fingers. Beyond that, we—who have shared so much sexually and emotionally in our nine years as a couple, six years as spouses, and two years as parents together—don’t need to know more specifics.
When we’re in a monogamous relationship, what we have a right to insist on is that no names get added to the list after our own. It doesn’t matter if I’m number five or 55. I’ll be crushed if my wife adds a number six or a 56 behind my back.
But the right to ask to be last is not the same as the right to know how far we are from the first. And for me, part of being a good man is knowing what I don’t need to know.
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Other Stories From the Good Men Project Magazine:
Men and the Sexualization of Young Girls
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Husband Confronts Abortion Protesters [VIDEO]
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Why Don’t Men Initiate Divorce?
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Red-Hot Monogamy
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Marriage: Just Don’t
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The Prostitute Who Saved My Relationship
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Are Men Natural-Born Cheaters?
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What Your Marriage Needs to Survive
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—Photo by eflon/Flickr




























I really think that women should understand that their actions have consequences and that judgments are here to stay. A guy can reject a woman any time he wants to and for any reason. Of course, the opposite applies too. So, everybody has the right to judge his potential partners according to his own standards.
If promiscuous women find themselves frequently rejected the last thing they should attempt to do is whine on internet webpages and try to convince men that their past shouldn’t matter and that somehow “true love” should overpower any judgment. What they should do, instead, is first determine what type of man they’re interested in, then determine the type of woman that this guy is looking for and, last but not least, determine if they are willing and able to be the woman that their ideal man would want. If they determine that this type of man and themselves are incompatible they should readjust their preferences and try again.
None of these steps involves sex. Many people are searching for their “soulmates” without sex.
None of these steps involves changing another person’s beliefs. What other people believe is beyond our control. You’d better get used to it.
It’s very interesting that I find sluts and tramps very vocal about this issue. Being a virgin guy I’ve also seen the notorious “double standard” for what it is. The only problem is: I don’t really see virgin guys running around, whining about the “double standard” and demanding that non-women should have sex with them. Why is that? I don’t know. What I do know is that this issue affects a number of men and women who have CHOSEN to live their lives in a particular way. Other people should not and will not conform to their beliefs.
One last thing: a non-promiscuous person rejecting a promiscuous one is NOT a double standard in any shape, way or form. Promiscuous people should complain only if the person who rejects them has not adhered to the standards he sets for others. Anything else is hypocritical.
Jim: I hope you are quite young, as it seems you may be. If I were an adult woman (and not a god-botherer), your number would trouble me. I would expect that you either had some kind of hang-up, or that you were a self-righteous prig. Having the benefit of the rest of your post marks you as the latter just as the first screams, “misogynist!!”
Is there a point you’re trying to make here? Btw I wonder where one draws the line between a person being aware of what he wants and actively searching for it and being self-righteous.
Jim,
You are absolutely right….to me sex is an important bond between two people who are in love…I believe many people both men and women are promiscuous because it makes them feel better about themselves…I for one do not enjoy sex with a woman unless I am in love with that person care for them and at the same time trust them….I had a girlfriend recently who I have been friends with for years who told me her number of partners and how quickly she was to sleep with a man she thought wanted to be in a relationship with her…the reason this bothered me because I thought we were on different levels morally….we discussed but not to the point where I would badger her…I am not perfect in anyway but I will tell you this…she became so insecure that I was going to leave her that she sabotaged our relationship told me to leave the next day spent the night with her disgusting idiot fat sweat X in a hotel then again on Monday all the while calling me telling me I was done for good because she saw another female message my wall on FB about hanging out….ummmm I think my concerns about her past came up and actually bit me in the azz…funny thing is she wants me back and like a fool I have gone back but walked away again…she was actually cruel while sleeping with two men at once I guess she had her validation from it and on another note her father did abandon her LOL sorry ladies but I am the best lover she has EVER encountered proven by words from her best friends who are my friends as well but when it comes time to marry we surely do not want to take the baggage of x lovers and scars from the person we love to the bed with us….Its not about judging, its about finding someone who shares the same standards and with diseases today its not very healthy…one man one woman is my motto although I can say Ive had only a few very serious relationships in my time and when we would break these women all jumped into bed with someone else then came running back while I stayed celibate because I am secure in my own person and will not sleep with a woman unless I love her in which case is the best sex ever anyway. If you like to get around and have sex freely, I do not want you.
I’m so there bro..
Jim,
The fact that you referred to women with a healthy sex life as “sluts and tramps” makes everything you said invalid.
I am playing devil’s advocate here, but here are two questions and a comment I found on another blog that was interesting:
a) If she is so wonderful, why none of those guys who were before us thought she was valuable enough to keep her?
b) If she thinks her sex is so valueless that she gives it freely, why should I deem it as valuable and worthy to work for it?
When you talk about she having “experience”, I ask: experienced in what? To be experienced in sex you don’t need to have a lot of sex partners. A couple of LTRs will give you that experience. In fact, she may be experienced in ****ing and chucking guys, and I don’t find that desirable.
As for question #1, what makes you think that if she found a guy she wanted to keep she couldn’t have?
#2 assumes a sex as transaction model that is just a hot mess.
Sounds like resentment about being a chuckee.
R
what he said
a) is an extremely silly question. It makes the GIANT assumption that she wanted to “keep” every guy that she slept with, which you have no way of knowing. It could be that the relationship just went sour, that she was the one doing the dumping, that none of the guys were a good match for her, that she wasn’t ready for a relationship but still wanted the sex, that she that she took some time out to experiment etc…
b) If you look at sex as being a ‘value’ thing–as something she ‘gives’ and you ‘buy’ or ‘work for’ instead of something mutual, intimate, enjoyable, and unique between every two people…it looks like you don’t ‘value’ the experience too much.
I’m a guy so I cant talk, but I agree and think that a lot of the ‘value’ mentality comes from men who deep down, dont have a lot of confidence in their attraction, so choose to see sex as a transaction where if they logically give something, they receive it in return
I think this is sad.
I also think a lot of girls are forced to lie about their number to avoid judgement. Two of my ex partners initialy told me they were on 8. when they realised I was non judgmental, they gave me much more racy admissions. One had experienced lots of threesomes and group sex, and at one time had taken on 7 guys in one session, which would mean her number was much higher. the other girl had a few holidays away when she would sleep with two or three guys in one weekend. In the end its their right, and women shouldnt feel that they ahve to justify their number to guys, or pretend that they can’t enjoy sex for sex’s sake. after all, science has proved that women enjoy sex more than (most unliberated) men. thats my 10c worth. I bet a lot of people dont like it
I was once an unliberated and judgmental man. Then I watched johnny soporno’s videos. Watch them, they will change your mind about many things.
“b) If you look at sex as being a ‘value’ thing–as something she ‘gives’ and you ‘buy’ or ‘work for’ instead of something mutual, intimate, enjoyable, and unique between every two people…it looks like you don’t ‘value’ the experience too much” – Aya
Sex is given freely and on a whim to some men others have to leap through hoops of fire and earn it. The women that bother me the most are the ones that have been very promiscuous then suddenly have values and expect me to wait an extended period of time so it will be “special”. Its really just a great big mind “BLEEP” on her part so she will be treated like a princess.
That’s quite a generalization. How do you know that that’s what women do? Is asking to be respected asking a guy to jump through hoops? And just out of curiosity, would you see a woman who had sex with you quickly as special?
Not all women Aya just some. In regards to respect some women have sex on a whim with men they barely know and make others wait and perform for it, respect is hardly an issue at that point. When I find out I have been played like a fool no its not special. Why should I do anything more than another man has to get what has already been givien?
Wow. I didn’t realize people were still kicking this article around. H3ere’s my thoughts, I don’t particularly care what a woman’s “number” is, but the flipside to that is- if you have more “experience” than I do, (or actually, even if you don’t) don’t expect me to always take the lead. Nothing drives me crazier than a woman who doesn’t think she has to do anything besides just show up. Unless it’s a woman who doesn’t do anything but show up, and then expects me to be able to read her mind and know how she likes it.
So, in other words ladies, maybe men would stop caring about “being the first” when women stop making it feel like we’re in a job interview
I am going to list an example. Someone with a 2.0 GPA because he was screwing around during his first 4 years of college but has since then worked vigorously, when applying to Harvard med. he was rejected. Why? why not live in the present, but care about the history? We all change right? The thing about history is that it allows us to predict the outcome of future events. As statistics shown, most applicants with that GPA are not likely to succeed in medical school. And where there are plenty of applicants to choose from, this applicant is eliminated without question. When applied to relationships, history too, is a good indicator of how serious your partner may be with you in the future. For someone who has 1 or 2 partners it is totally understandable as one is trying to explore. However, for someone with a glorious amount of past relationships it is only reasonable to deduce that the likelihood that this person is not careful/serious at selecting her partners is high.
When it comes to the argument of seeing sex as ‘special’ or not, I don’t understand why people are so quick to see it as black and white. In my experiences, sex in certain situations has been incredibly special, meaningful, and spiritual, while in other situations, it’s been…just sex. And then there was everything in between. I see the same thing in men. An example. A nerdy and idealistic romantic partner of mine in his mid 20s whose number was around 12. I’d known him for a very long time and he was pretty straightforward about everything. I know that in certain situations sex was extremely special, particularly with 2 of his long-term exes and with myself (and even within our situations, the ‘specialness’ varied at times). With the rest, the reasoning ranged from being horny to bored to rebounding to hoping for something special but it not ending to be to just a lustful attraction. Really, though: Just because sex didn’t matter with that guy, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t matter with YOU. And vice versa. It’s really not as simple–’all sex is important to her/him’ and ‘all sex is not important to her/him!’. It’s easier to look at it that way, but it’s just not always the case. There are way too many other factors involved. Sex is not something women ‘give’ away or withold…our desires matter too. And just like men, we can make good, bad, and neutral decisions when it comes to our sex lives.
“Sex is not something women ‘give’ away or withold…”
That is the biggest lie I have seen on this thread. Women withhold sex all the time from men they deem unworthy of them!
I cant believe this is still going on. I agree with sex being a very intimate act and that its better to have sex with people you love. But unfortunately, we didn’t always think like this. That thought comes with maturity and experience. So before we thought this lovely ideal up, you were probably having sex with people you didn’t love because you wanted to have sex. Hopefully safe sex. My point is, grow up. Shit happened before you met the other person, and shaming him or her isn’t going to get you any where except a trip to the drugstore for some migraine medicine and a one way ticket for a lonely and bitter life. Because no matter how much your partner loves you, he or she will not stay in a relationship where they are being judged and shamed. We all have bad judgement when we are young, no matter how high on your horse you want to be. Learn to understand that the only think that should matter to you is that no matter how many partners your partner has had, they are still the same person he or she was before you found this out. Move on and be happy.
Would you feel the same if you discovered that s/he had previously been married 4 times?
Would it be judging him/her to consider that as a factor?
Annoyed…Thank you for saying this…”Because no matter how much your partner loves you, he or she will not stay in a relationship where they are being judged and shamed.” This is how my boyfriend of 4 years has been treating me and he doesn’t understand how much it hurts me that he would be soooo critical of things that happened long before we ever even met.
How can ANYONE expect to move forward with someone if they are CONSTANTLY looking at the past!
Well said my friend, that’s what it’s about, can’t live in the past or nothing will last.
For some guys I don’t think the actual number matters as much as long as its less than theirs
I know this is more of a “Men’s Only” kind of site and I stummbled upon this article when I Googled “Why are men so obsessed with a woman’s sexual past” and I have to say, from a woman’s point of view…I love this article!! I wish I could get my man to read it.
We are both 30, have been together for 4 years and we have 1 son together. I have 2 boys from a previous marriage. My boyfriend knows that I think whatever my number is it’s really none of his business because it’s my past and has nothing to do with who I am today. Yet, in a drunken rage one night, he had me pinned (litterally) between the dryer that I was fixing and the wall and DEMANDED to know the number. I kept trying to deflect, because everyone knows you can’t argue with a drunk…but the verbal assault was relentless!!
I have told him a vague number before but he said he wanted “to see if you’re lying about it, if you can remember what you told me” I was so upset that I was in tears for days afterwards.
You see, my “sexual past” began at the young age of 5 when I was raped by a very close family member…one of the ONLY male figures in my life (and YES my biological father left us when I was only 3). I was raped again at the age of 12 by an older neighbor, so that was how I learned about sex and how a man should treat a woman…or at least that’s what I grew up thinking. It has taken me many many years to figure out that I am worth more then that. So yes, I have had more then my fair share of partners. (some by my own choice, other times not)
My boyfirend doesn’t seem to understand that asking me for “The Number” only takes me back to the horrible things I went through as a young child and the choices that I made because I was never told any different. We have been fighting off and on for months now and it’s so depressing…and over what??!! Something that in my opinion has nothing to do with him to begin with.
Guys…stop asking because you never know what happened in her past or how strongly it can effect her!!
Yesterday a guy I’ve been seeing for a month and haven’t gone past 1 1/2 base with yet asked me how many people I slept with. For me, it’s 3. I asked him he said “More than 10, less than 20″…..
I almost walked away. I’m still not sure if I want to be with him. The number does matter to me, because I know he did this between the ages of 15 and 24. That could figure out to 2 a year, but it still makes me cringe. Yes he’s a young man but what’s the rush, and why is he rushing me? How much does he mean it when he says he wants to be in a relationship with me?? These questions DO come to mind for most people when the number is fairly high.
It goes both ways, people. You can bash men all you want, but when it’s the other way around, you’ll at least consider requesting that your future partner get tested before anything serious happens.
it does matter you asshole. it matters more than you will ever know
The answer is obvious. There is a huge difference between 4 and 14. Guy or Girl.
It says if that person is loose and thus the odds of cheating and or just dumping you are significantly higher. I don’t know the stats but I’d bet a dollar the higher number of people someone has slept with the more likely the relationship is to not last. So its not “just a number” that’d be like telling the court what the difference between shooting 4 and 14 people. Its just a number officer.
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So after a few days of him trying to win me back over I allowed it to get to the point where we would flirt with each other like we use to do. We finally had that serious conversation and sat down to talk things over. Thank you Dr opingo spell temple for your powerful spell to get my man back . It worked out marvelously for me and I would recommend it to all the ladies who want to be back with their men. contact Dr opingo on his Email:alterofcandle@gmail.com
Meh, if a girl has been with a lot of guys, and then all the sudden she would make me jump through hoops (or any other ‘nice’ guy) for sex, I would find that rather hurtful or distrustful. It’s like saying since, Sam, Billy, Joe, and w/e played you like a fool now I have to suffer as well. It’s hard to find a girl who was ‘promiscuous’ to not show it through their behavior or something in there personality. And that goes for men too. Men should respect themselves too and not ‘whore -out’ to any girl who says ‘yes’ let alone manipulating naive vulnerable women into something they will regret b/c that’s just almost evil.
Every now and again, we revisit this idea. And *every single time*, we fail to question the statistics. How can the average number of partners be seven for men and four for women? (Or, according to more recent figures, 11 and 7?) There are equal numbers of men and women in the world, and every time a man takes a new sexual partner, a woman is taking one too. Every point for the home team is a point for the away team. So the average *must be exactly the same*.
(NB “gay sex” is not the answer – most surveys explicitly specify number of *heterosexual* partners.)
I hesitate to reply, but…
try this thought experiment: there are 5 men and 5
women on an island. One man sleeps with three of the women. Everyone else is not sexually active. His number is therefore three, and none of the women have a number that exceeds one.
Gah!
Ummmm, but when you take into account averages 3/5 still equals 3/5.
You are not taking into account party girls that let multiple men mount them every weekend for years on end, they drive the numbers way up.
I find the statements to be interesting. The past is the past is a fallacy. We are in many way the sum total of our life experience. So there is an inherent right for promiscuous women to be dishonest about who they truly are. The most difficult thing for anyone is to find out the truth incrementally.So if promiscuous women were honest upfront, men can make an honest decision based on their beliefs and values. And what was the basis of the promiscuity. Were you just having a good time or was it something else. Trying to gain something, trading sex for drugs.. Last time I checked that behavior is called prostitution. Ladies give that some thought before you sell a good man dishonesty.
Ladies just to clarify. Many women will sleep with a man they normally would sleep with because he has drugs, coke. They will sell themselves the lie they were just out partying and we just did it. They did it for the coke. That truly is prostitution. You did it so you could get something.
Wouldn’t sleep with. Sorry
One thing that happens is particularly difficult for men. When formerly promiscuous women enter committed relationships they do not approach the sex within the marriage as they did in their 1, 2, 3 nite stands. In other words, the men whose names they didn’t know when they woke up the next day were given better than their husbands. Most men, me included, would overlook the previous promiscuity if we were treated as good, no better, than the nameless past partners. However, its usually not that way. This is nothing more than attempting to cover shame about the past. It is as self-destructive as the previous promiscuity. It ensure the destruction of the very thing they want. A committed, long term relationship.
Oh, ladies. Oral sex in the parking lot of bar, at a party or anywhere else does constitute sex.
It has been interesting reading everyone’s varied opinion. For me, I have been married almost 35 years and have only had sex with my husband. The vast majority of my female family members and friends have done the same. That was pretty typical of women in my generation in the U.S. However, even though most of us taught our children to be fairly conservative sexually, the succeeding generations have become a bit more relaxed than ours. Ultimately, I feel that it is up to the individual and couple-in my opinion, both sides need to be honest about what they want from each other long before they decide to be sexual with one another. I (and my grown children) liked the fact that we did not have to worry about getting pregnant at a young age, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. because we did not partake. However, I don’t feel that it makes me (or my grown children who are married now with children) better human beings, just people who did not have to expend energy worrying about things that other people (ones who are sexually active) have to worry about. However, I volunteer for the YWCA and there are many women who have been victims of sexual assault at such a young age. As a result, many of these women feel devalued and can sometimes become promiscuous because of something that happened to them (not their fault). Should we judge these people or anyone else who decides to become sexually active with a lot of men (or what most people consider a lot?)
PMM, although I respect what you have written, it should be made clear that the group of women we’re discussing do not fall into sexual assault victim category. Not all promiscuous women have been sexually taken advantage of. Just look at Jersey Shore or Teen Moms Tv shows…
I travel the world and I blow away these stats I’m MVP in my circle of friends I’m not going to even say my numbers but it’s triple digits and the good part is I’m still young male. So when I hear guys brag about have 10 20 or even 30 sexual partners I laugh. Because I trump that by a long shot. Charlie sheen is my hero … winning!