Has gaslighting conditioned women into thinking they’re emotionally unstable? Yashar Ali thinks so.
You’re so sensitive. You’re so emotional. You’re defensive. You’re overreacting. Calm down. Relax. Stop freaking out! You’re crazy! I was just joking, don’t you have a sense of humor? You’re so dramatic. Just get over it already!
Sound familiar?
If you’re a woman, it probably does.
Do you ever hear any of these comments from your spouse, partner, boss, friends, colleagues, or relatives after you have expressed frustration, sadness, or anger about something they have done or said?
When someone says these things to you, it’s not an example of inconsiderate behavior. When your spouse shows up half an hour late to dinner without calling—that’s inconsiderate behavior. A remark intended to shut you down like, “Calm down, you’re overreacting,” after you just addressed someone else’s bad behavior, is emotional manipulation—pure and simple.
And this is the sort of emotional manipulation that feeds an epidemic in our country, an epidemic that defines women as crazy, irrational, overly sensitive, unhinged. This epidemic helps fuel the idea that women need only the slightest provocation to unleash their (crazy) emotions. It’s patently false and unfair.
I think it’s time to separate inconsiderate behavior from emotional manipulation and we need to use a word not in our normal vocabulary.
I want to introduce a helpful term to identify these reactions: gaslighting.
Gaslighting is a term, often used by mental health professionals (I am not one), to describe manipulative behavior used to confuse people into thinking their reactions are so far off base that they’re crazy.
The term comes from the 1944 MGM film, Gaslight, starring Ingrid Bergman. Bergman’s husband in the film, played by Charles Boyer, wants to get his hands on her jewelry. He realizes he can accomplish this by having her certified as insane and hauled off to a mental institution. To pull of this task, he intentionally sets the gaslights in their home to flicker off and on, and every time Bergman’s character reacts to it, he tells her she’s just seeing things. In this setting, a gaslighter is someone who presents false information to alter the victim’s perception of him or herself.
Today, when the term is referenced, it’s usually because the perpetrator says things like, “You’re so stupid” or “No one will ever want you” to the victim. This is an intentional, pre-meditated form of gaslighting, much like the actions of Charles Boyer’s character in Gaslight, where he strategically plots to confuse Ingrid Bergman’s character into believing herself unhinged.
The form of gaslighting I’m addressing is not always pre-mediated or intentional, which makes it worse, because it means all of us, especially women, have dealt with it at one time or another.
Those who engage in gaslighting create a reaction—whether it’s anger, frustration, sadness—in the person they are dealing with. Then, when that person reacts, the gaslighter makes them feel uncomfortable and insecure by behaving as if their feelings aren’t rational or normal.
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My friend Anna (all names changed to protect privacy) is married to a man who feels it necessary to make random and unprompted comments about her weight. Whenever she gets upset or frustrated with his insensitive comments, he responds in the same, defeating way, “You’re so sensitive. I’m just joking.”
My friend Abbie works for a man who finds a way, almost daily, to unnecessarily shoot her down and her work product. Comments like, “Can’t you do something right?” or “Why did I hire you?” are regular occurrences for her. Her boss has no problem firing people (he does it regularly), so you wouldn’t know that based on these comments, Abbie has worked for him for six years. But every time she stands up for herself and says “It doesn’t help me when you say these things,” she gets the same reaction: “Relax; you’re overreacting.”
Abbie thinks her boss is just being a jerk in these moments, but the truth is, he is making those comments to manipulate her into thinking her reactions are out of whack. And it’s exactly that kind manipulation that has left her feeling guilty about being sensitive, and as a result, she has not left her job.
But gaslighting can be as simple as someone smiling and saying something like, “You’re so sensitive,” to somebody else. Such a comment may seem innocuous enough, but in that moment, that person is making a judgment about how someone else should feel.
While dealing with gaslighting isn’t a universal truth for women, we all certainly know plenty of women who encounter it at work, home, or in personal relationships.
And the act of gaslighting does not simply affect women who are not quite sure of themselves. Even vocal, confident, assertive women are vulnerable to gaslighting.
Why?
Because women bare the brunt of our neurosis. It is much easier for us to place our emotional burdens on the shoulders of our wives, our female friends, our girlfriends, our female employees, our female colleagues, than for us to impose them on the shoulders of men.
It’s a whole lot easier to emotionally manipulate someone who has been conditioned by our society to accept it. We continue to burden women because they don’t refuse our burdens as easily. It’s the ultimate cowardice.
Whether gaslighting is conscious or not, it produces the same result: it renders some women emotionally mute.
These women aren’t able to clearly express to their spouses that what is said or done to them is hurtful. They can’t tell their boss that his behavior is disrespectful and prevents them from doing their best work. They can’t tell their parents that, when they are being critical, they are doing more harm than good.
When these women receive any sort of push back to their reactions, they often brush it off by saying, “Forget it, it’s okay.”
That “forget it” isn’t just about dismissing a thought, it is about self-dismissal. It’s heartbreaking.
No wonder some women are unconsciously passive aggressive when expressing anger, sadness, or frustration. For years, they have been subjected to so much gaslighting that they can no longer express themselves in a way that feels authentic to them.
They say, “I’m sorry” before giving their opinion. In an email or text message, they place a smiley face next to a serious question or concern, thereby reducing the impact of having to express their true feelings.
You know how it looks: “You’re late 
”
These are the same women who stay in relationships they don’t belong in, who don’t follow their dreams, who withdraw from the kind of life they want to live.
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Since I have embarked on this feminist self-exploration in my life and in the lives of the women I know, this concept of women as “crazy” has really emerged as a major issue in society at large and an equally major frustration for the women in my life, in general.
From the way women are portrayed on reality shows, to how we condition boys and girls to see women, we have come to accept the idea that women are unbalanced, irrational individuals, especially in times of anger and frustration.
Just the other day, on a flight from San Francisco to Los Angeles, a flight attendant who had come to recognize me from my many trips asked me what I did for a living. When I told her that I write mainly about women, she immediately laughed and asked, “Oh, about how crazy we are?”
Her gut reaction to my work made me really depressed. While she made her response in jest, her question nonetheless makes visible a pattern of sexist commentary that travels through all facets of society on how men view women, which also greatly impacts how women may view themselves.
As far as I am concerned, the epidemic of gaslighting is part of the struggle against the obstacles of inequality that women constantly face. Acts of gaslighting steal their most powerful tool: their voice. This is something we do to women every day, in many different ways.
I don’t think this idea that women are “crazy,” is based in some sort of massive conspiracy. Rather, I believe it’s connected to the slow and steady drumbeat of women being undermined and dismissed, on a daily basis. And gaslighting is one of many reasons why we are dealing with this public construction of women as “crazy”
I recognize that I’ve been guilty of gaslighting my women friends in the past (but never my male friends—surprise, surprise). It’s shameful, but I’m glad I realized that I did it on occasion and put a stop to it.
While I take total responsibility for my actions, I do believe that I, along with many men, am a byproduct of our conditioning. It’s about the general insight our conditioning gives us into admitting fault and exposing any emotion.
When we are discouraged in our youth and early adulthood from expressing emotion, it causes many of us to remain steadfast in our refusal to express regret when we see someone in pain from our actions.
When I was writing this piece, I was reminded of one of my favorite Gloria Steinem quotes, “The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn, but to unlearn.”
So for many of us, it’s first about unlearning how to flicker those gaslights and learning how to acknowledge and understand the feelings, opinions, and positions of the women in our lives.
But isn’t the issue of gaslighting ultimately about whether we are conditioned to believe that women’s opinions don’t hold as much weight as ours? That what women have to say, what they feel, isn’t quite as legitimate?
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Yashar will be soon releasing his first short e-book, entitled, A Message To Women From A Man: You Are Not Crazy — How We Teach Men That Women Are Crazy and How We Convince Women To Ignore Their Instincts. If you are interested and want to be notified when the book is released, please click here to sign-up.
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This post originally appeared on The Current Conscience.
—Photo lempicki.maciek/Flickr
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Read Mark Greene’s response:
About Yashar Ali
I’m going to re-post something I wrote on Reddit:
Perhaps people accuse other people of being “overly emotional” because they don’t understand other people’s emotional sensitivity. If a guy who can shrug off minor injuries is dealing with a girl who, for temperamental reasons, gets deeply hurt by them, it’s easy for him to assume she’s overreacting. Sometimes, when we see that people react differently to things than we do, we forget that their brains operate differently and assume they’re just flawed versions of ourselves: “oh, that person just can’t handle her emotions that well or is being dramatic.” He might not realize that she perceives the world in a fundamentally different way than he does: she’s more emotionally sensitive and feels the highs and lows more profoundly.
So when he says “stop being so emotional,” maybe he thinks he’s trying to bring her back down to earth, or is expressing his frustration with the fact that things don’t just bounce off of her. Granted, it’s insulting and wrong for the guy to do it, but he may not have malicious intent.
Great reminder that people’s emotions deserve to be acknowledged. We should also realize that not allowing men to “be emotional” is also quite damaging. Working through emotions should be seen as a strength, whichever sex is doing it.
The solution then is for people to develop greater awareness of what they’re really trying to do with statements like that. I think that emotional manipulation is done usually because it’s easy. It’s convenient to push the blame on someone’s hyper-sensitivity and to ignore any responsibility one may have in the matter. That way, there is nothing that needs to be fixed or considered or changed, because, it’s all their fault. Most of the time, the perpetrators of emotional manipulation are, for the most part, clueless as to the damage they wrought on others. But people generally take the easy way out of things and it may just boil down to sheer emotional/intellectual laziness. Why bother with trying to understand why someone is acting in this way, when I can just tell them that their crazy?
By the same token, your emotions are your issues to deal with, not mine. I have ended discussions with women who, when they fail to present a successful argument, fall back on “how they feel” and why that makes their opinion correct even though it is factually wrong. That too is gaslighting by women, to use the author’s term, and is unacceptable.
@Danny -then it seems like it’s time for the guy to develop some empathy..which really should have been developed in him as a child just as it is in little girls.
@S — very true my son was and is (he’s 14) encouraged to own his emotions but not let them control him which is the same I would teach a daughter
@Transhuman — yes and no sometimes a woman will say ‘I feel’ this or that not to manipulate but because they don’t know how else to explain their opinions or views on the subject.
I don’t follow the connection between gaslighting (which is serious and intentional) and questioning the emotional reactions of others. I’ve been told all those things in the first paragraph – that I’m overreacting, being emotional, being defensive etc, often by my girlfriend, friends, and parents. And often they’re right.
People, men and women alike, do overreact to things. They let emotion cloud their judgement. They get defensive against legitimate criticism. They hold on to petty slights rather than letting them go. I don’t see the harm in calling those around us out on those failings. It may not feel nice to hear it, but it’s often a needed wake-up call.
Good Point
Of course it is necessary to question the emotional reactions of others. The question here then is whether statements such as “you’re over-reacting”, without more, really achieve that goal. It seems that statements like that are an easy way out for people to avoid responsibility. She’s unhappy with me because she’s hypersensitive, so I don’t have to change anything, or be reflexive because this is all in her head. If someone really wanted to question the emotional reactions of another in a healthy productive way, the solution, i think, isn’t just a simple “you’re over-reacting”. That’s a brush-off. It would probably be better to sit down with the person in a safe non-confrontational space and to figure out together, what the issue really is. The idea is empowerment. If you brush someone off, there is no ability for them to express themselves or their needs, and to make the necessary changes (both inside and out).
@Simon- While people do overreact, become emotional, etc. it’s not a FAILING. It’s an expression of something that they are honestly feeling at that moment. A burst of emotion often comes from fear or frustration or misunderstanding. Maybe what that person needs is empathy and kindness. And maybe they need a wake-up call, but there are more effective ways to deliver that wake-up call than invalidating them. It honestly does make a person feel crazy.
Actually, it is a failing Holly, that’s kind of the point. Maybe that person needs to express exactly what they’re thinking and feeling like an adult, instead of relying on histrionics. It’s not about invalidating them, it’s about saying to women “You can talk to me. Screaming and crying at me and saying I don’t understand, really doesn’t help.”
Actually, it is not a failing. It is a normal function of the human brain. When my male employees freak out because they cut themselves with their own razor on one of my jobsites, I do not make fun of them and tell them to “walk it off”, but some of their male coworkers do, especially the ones who are always dramatizing and complaining about everything.
If only we can help men understand, that it is not an evil thing when one gets emotional. Maybe if men would use their feelings at least once in their relationship, instead of trying to show this hard shell……
“If only we can help men understand, that it is not an evil thing when one gets emotional. Maybe if men would use their feelings at least once in their relationship, instead of trying to show this hard shell……”
Nice insult to men, maybe you need to pay more attention to your male partners and actually see they are showing a lot of emotion. It’d be better to qualify your statements with who you mean, do you mean ALL men, some men, a few men? Otherwise it just sounds like a negative stereotype towards a gender. I’m actually surprised a moderator didn’t pick up on it…
The moderator may need to pick up on you as well for trying to make something bad out of my statements. That’s not your job. Now, you need to think carefully about whether you are being sensitive or angry just because females make some important statements concerning males.. My statements are no worse than some of the things the men have said about females
@Jean very true but see he wasn’t wanting you to have an opinion about men but he be allowed to have an opinion on woman..which is not very right..but sadly how our men have been programed by society to react. (over all not 100% but largely)
Society conditions women to think they are emotional and men are conditioned to not show emotion for fear that they are weak. They are brought up to ‘toughen up’
Yeah but telling them to walk it off can often be done for humor sake, laughter really can help with the pain. I’ve been in pain and someone has said something like that, laughed, felt much better since it distracted me, got me laughing (which has positive effects and I’d say helps increase endorphin release which is a natural painkiller).
When it’s done to “toughen them up” then it’s a problem.
I have never visited this website, but the name itself seems to me to be a form of psychological manipulation: “Good Men Project”.
As if a project needs to be undertaken to transform bad men into good men, which then makes us bad men. The name implies that men are bad and require a project to change them, a project which you, conveniently, can be of assistance. You know how to change bad, naughty men into good men. I realize this is confrontational, so please, peace, but is it possible you are overreacting here? This requires introspection, of course, and I cannot answer this for you.
It is entirely possible that the “environmentally enforced narratives” actually have a grain of truth in them, and women are as a whole different than men. All of my personal observations seem to point to this (although, of course, the environment has conditioned my observations and the men and women I have talked to)…
That being said, yes, emotional manipulation of other people is terrible. And when it occurs it should be stopped. But to say that women bear the brunt of the neuroses of our culture makes no sense. Women are not innocent of manipulating others through emotional channels! Not one iota.
Plus, men go through just as thorough and powerful of an environmentally formative stage as women do. What, do you think men don’t live in, and get formed by, society too??!
Gas-lighting can also be revealing and accurate. Please disregard my confrontational voice which does show through this and don’t let that bother you or cloud any thinking about what I am saying.
Your tone suggests to me that you think women are victims, relatively powerless, bearing unnecessary psychic burdens, and otherwise weak. Isn’t this just another form of patronizing? Everyone is perfectly capable of emancipating themselves from mental slavery, can speak up for themselves, etc.
You also bring up very good points that I am integrating into my psyche, so thankyou very much for that! This isn’t just an attack on your ideas, some of them are quite important because gas-lighting happens to everyone and it is important to realize and understand it. So thankyou! Obviously you have written an intriguing enough article for me to spend some time thinking about it; congratulations!
I interpret it as a place for ‘good men’ to congregate who speak out on women’s behalf and support feminism, human rights, queer rights and so forth. I consider the name quite positive, as it implies that ‘good men’ exist.
Sure the name does imply that some men are not. Unless you want to claim sexism, rape, spousal abuse, and shitty politics don’t exist, you have no choice but to agree that there are members of our sex who embarrass the rest of us.
So I wouldn’t get too worked up about the title. There are more radical sites you can find that think good men don’t exist in any form. If you ever want to be extremely depressed and angry, check those out.
Good men do exist but that certainly has nothing to do with feminism as feminism is anti-male (with the exception of homosexuals), as the feminist-written articles here make crystal clear.
Eric M is afrwaid of the big bad feminists wanting equal opportunities for wimmens and stuff. So scary for hims. Waaaaaahhhhhhhhh
^Gaslighting^
Thank you for proving that women are capable of emotionally violent manipulation, Liz. First you create a straw-man, then you gaslight and use shaming language. Textbook.
Thanks for making my job as a feminist harder. You’ve single handedly proven to everyone here the feminist stereotype. So awesome I wanna barf. If you want respect and people to listen to you try holding yourself to the same standard.
Childish crap…
Oh, yes, Liz is the one here “gaslighting” and enforcing “feminist stereotypes”.
Not, of course, Eric’s: “Good men do exist but that certainly has nothing to do with feminism as feminism is anti-male (with the exception of homosexuals), as the feminist-written articles here make crystal clear.”
I’m with Liz. Eric needs a waaaaaambulance”.
Hilarious. The previous “gaslighter” is called out, and yet you – in a valiant attempt to defend feminism’s reputation – engage in the exact same behaviour.
The difference between your post and the initial one is that you have had the privilege of being made aware of the hypocrisy.
By joining in, you initiate a chorus of patronisation. Not only is that a display of immaturity and a reinforcement of feminism’s paper thin credibility – it’s also bullying.
You are wrong, the men on this blog gaslight all day and everyday and as soon as a woman peeks her head in, you all jump on her and say she is gaslighting.
Which men? All of them? I’ve seen plenty of women peek their head in and not be gaslit/lighted, infact many here are quite well respected.
Feminism is not anti male. That is the description men came up with to get everone to criticize them. Men have a need to go against anything females and other do to expose unfairness in the genders. Feminsm helps those of us with blinders on to see the ills going on right under our noses.
Feminism is not anti male.
Then do something about the anti-male elements and most people will stop saying it is.
If feminism was about getting rid of the blinders then maybe its members should be better about not trying to put its own blinders over people’s eyes. And it might help if its members would be willing to admit to all the ills going on instead of just pretending that the only ills that are going on under our noses are ones that harm women (or trying to cast all ills as being about harming women)
Oi now…the same could be said of the MRM, Danny. But of course it’s not as simple as rooting out the bad elements and getting rid of them. Neither the MRM or feminism are single entities or hierarchical. So we all do what we can. In part that means calling out people when they say hateful things (regardless of who those hateful things are directed toward). And in part that’s defending the particular label we’ve identified with.
Oi now…the same could be said of the MRM…
Agreed.
As someone who has no problem being critical of feminism (which appears to scare all 10 levels of hell out of a lot of feminists and pro feminists) it just grates my nerves to have someone sweep in and declare that feminism is some infallible entity, or at least that men have no valid criticisms of it.
Right I didn’t see what comment you replied to, just your response to the “feminism is not anti male” part of it. I was actually going to say something along the lines of – saying feminism is not anti-male does not equate to saying men have no valid criticisms of it. Then I saw the comment you originally responded to and I better understand your response. The first and last sentences of Jean’s comment are valid, I think.
This bit – “That is the description men came up with to get everone to criticize them. Men have a need to go against anything females and other do to expose unfairness in the genders” – is not valid. I categorize that as false and a generalization about men. Generalizations like this most certainly do not help the discussion.
Feminism itself may not be anti-male, but there are plenty of feminists who ARE anti-male, and even feminist-led/inspired policies from what I understand can come across as anti-male (VAWA, etc). But feminism is a group and like any group there are those that try to use it in x way, others in y way, some are anti-male, some are pro male, some don’t affect men what so ever. Although this all depends what version of feminism you want to use, from my understanding it’s got a few different variants from what I consider good to bad, which is the “real feminism”? Hell if I know, seems to be a catch all term that has both negative and positive connotations, I don’t think it can really be defined as ONE thing but simply more a belief that varies person to person.
@Eric M – very true.
@Liz – I do hope you were joking if not then you need to mature some
@Jean — I agree though sadly a small % of us do come of as anti-male or are anti-male. I think in feminism as in most things there are subsets and the ‘anti-male’ subsets make the rest of us who want fair treatment, equal rights, the end of sexism, rape, all forms of abuse, ‘anti-woman’ politics, human trafficking, etc to end look like angry little girls. Both males and females have value and I think that gets lost in ‘I am woman hear me roar’ sometimes which is sad.
@Archy — I don’t know if there is a specific ‘this is feminism’ rule out there anywhere but from a woman who considers her self (compared to others) as a ‘moderate feminist’ I would say the feminist movement is mostly about ensuring all females are treated with respect and dignity, guaranteeing their human rights, ending sexism (going both ways mind you), ending rape, incest, all forms of abuse — or at least showing them for the evil they are and helping those who have been abused in such ways, putting an end to the many forms of ‘anti-female’ politics out there, empowering woman, seeing more females in the sciences, mathematics fields, politics, etc that have been largely male dominated in the past (and present but not so bad now), equal pay (if both a man and a woman have the same experience, same education, same everything but reproductive parts they should be paid the same for the same job when currently men tend to be paid more than woman in the same job with same education and experience)…I would say those are the ones that are pretty universal to feminist though some will have others added to it like home births and breast feeding not seen as ‘weird’ or ‘abnormal’ but acceptable alternatives or a preference to the current ‘norm’ and maybe others. Hope that helps.
Only those who refuse to acknowledge that all their gripes about “feminism” is really their gripes about the problems the patriarchy causes would say that “feminism is anti-male.” This goes not just for Eric, but also for Rebecca, who agreed with him.
“Unless you want to claim sexism, rape, spousal abuse, and shitty politics don’t exist, you have no choice but to agree that there are members of our sex who embarrass the rest of us.”
…because women NEVER rape, are sexist, abuse their spouses or voted Obama Prom King instead Hillary when they had the chance?
Maybe “several” of us need to feel some shame regardless of gender, Mr. Sexist.
Like your comment but just an aside. Why should women vote Hilary over Obama simply because of her gender? Seems like discrimination against him to me.
@nick – I concur
This is a feminist site, Anon, where feminist-approved ideas on masculinity can be shared with other curious men.
That being said, yes, emotional manipulation of other people is terrible. And when it occurs it should be stopped. But to say that women bear the brunt of the neuroses of our culture makes no sense. Women are not innocent of manipulating others through emotional channels! Not one iota. — true but not all woman do so just like not all men. I don’t think think the author was even trying to imply that woman are ‘victims’ but that many ARE victimized by others, specifically the males in their lives (but not exclusively), via emotional manipulation / abuse as well as verbal abuse. and on the name of the blog…have you ever tried to come up with a name for a blog? It’s NOT easy!
Article is about criminal collusion, not feminism, sexism, emotionalism,psychosis. Happens w/ evidence every day in every avenue of life. Recognize and be ready to back up claims w/ evidence and facts. Don’t get excited about collusion. All is not fair in love and war!
Yashar, I’m surprised at some of these comments. People are so harsh. I can relate to what you are describing here. It doesn’t make me “weak.” This does happen disproportionately to women. I’d add to your list of things men say to women, “why are you taking this so personally?” Usually it’s because the comment WAS personal. I once worked in an almost entirely male organization, and there was rampant treatment of women in the ways you describe. The women literally formed a support group! You’d have had to have been present for some of the behaviors to really understand what I’m talking about, but suffice it to say, what you describe does go on, and more for women than for men.
You can’t assume that just because you experienced that, it means it happens more to women. In fact, just because your friends and mom experienced it doesn’t mean it happens more to women. Logic people, logic. If women want equality, then so be it. It should be granted anyway, however, don’t be a hypocrite. It seems many women are just that, hypocrites. I feel this article is biased and isn’t close to explaining the truth. The fact of the matter is, gaslighting does occur, however, no one has the right to yell at another person or make someone feel bad even if said person did something they didn’t like. That is the issue. If I forgot to clean something and got yelled at, I sure as hell told my gf to get over it. No man or women has the right to belittle then get angry when we say calm down and relax you are overreacting. If you don’t like something explain in a calm rational way and learn to have tact, don’t whine about this isn’t fair or that isn’t fair.
“It seems many women are just that, hypocrites.”
You can’t assume that just because you may have experienced that, that it means you can make a general conclusion about women. In fact, just because your friends and mom might be like that, doesn’t mean it occurs generally among women. Logic people, logic.
Speaking of hypocrites. . .
Check out society darling. It was not long ago when women were being treated for ‘hysteria.’ No where in history are men treated for getting angry. If its a man he is righteously angry. If it is a women she is emotional, having a temper tantrum, suffering hysteria or its that time of the month. You sir are a perfect example of gaslighting. Using feelings to win. You forgot to do something. She yelled and you say ‘there there’ no big deal so I’m going to ignore you because you are emotional.
You wouldn’t gaslight us now would you, Lori?
Make a hatch mark on the non gaslightable side for this woman, please.
I’m standing on the “too smart, confident, educated, self assured and intelligent side of the room.
“You’d have had to have been present for some of the behaviors to really understand what I’m talking about, but suffice it to say, what you describe does go on, and more for women than for men.”
Is this for a certain area, society wide, or globally? I have a feeling it’s more that anywhere a gender dominates you can get problems, I’ve heard quite a few people tell me the best workplaces are generally 50:50 split, too many of one leads to problems for some reason. Hell one of the employment agency workers told me men would be great to work in admin which is mostly female, apparently it breaks up the “bitchy catty behaviour” (her words not mine).
I have to say that I’ve not experienced this phenomena to my knowledge. I have had emotionally manipulative ‘friends’ or bosses but I have never felt singled out as a woman for it. The men that I worked with bore the same brunt from a dickish boss, and the friends that I found manipulative hardly seemed to single me out as a woman for manipulation (or single me out in general. Manipulators, to my experience, tend to just manipulate in general). I’ve rarely been made to feel as though my feelings weren’t valid. Maybe, I’m just one of the lucky few. My husband is a supportive, kind, sensitive man who has always taken me seriously. Misunderstandings and arguments with friends almost always seem to be a two way street regardless of their sex. I have friends both men and women who I consider at times overly sensitive, (when they have a habit of looking at the glass half-empty, or take a comment in a way it wasn’t intended, or lash out at me when I point out how their thoughtless speech or action negatively affected me) and I don’t believe I’ve ever taken their gender into consideration about it. People ARE crazy often enough, their moods skew their view of the world at that moment, their past clouds their present. Hormones and upbringing and expectations and nature all affect a person’s current rational. People DO overreact.
I guess I just really have a hard time seeing this issue as a men and women problem, more than a people problem. Are there dudes that are responsible for doing things like this? Of course, (… though I’ve rarely found each person carries only one flaw, these men who break down women are they all stand up guys other than that? Somehow, I doubt that. I tend to think of the world more in terms of nice people and assholes. Maybe your friends husband is just an asshole?) but I hardly think it’s appropriate to blame men for women doing this to one another.
To me it just comes down to communication. Lots of people aren’t good at it. Lots of people have their own insecurities that get in the way, or their own resentments. Some people are just kind of assholes. Do some men emotionally manipulate women and ‘gaslight’ them? Sure. But women do it to men too. And men do it to men and women do it to women and the flying spaghetti monster does it to everyone.
I’d enjoy a world where everyone made more of a concerted effort to consider how their speech affected the people around them and the world in general (and an attempt to affect it favorably), but I haven’t had the misfortune of experiencing this ‘attempt to keep women down’ so much as I’ve just experienced simply a multitude of agendas and moodiness and poor communication skills and lack of introspection.
Again, maybe I’m just the lucky one. I’ve never once had someone ask ‘are you on your period?’ when I’ve been angry. Maybe I just don’t surround myself with people that are prone to such thinking. I think I’ve always lumped such experiences into the assumed realm of unrealistic hollywood, where the ugly girl becomes hot when she takes off her glasses and people fall in love with one look. Where there is a ten step checklist for ‘how to lose a guy’.
I do think that drawing a line between men and women in a situation like this is a mistake. Implying that the ‘good men’ are in the minority hardly endears any to the gender in general. I don’t think that this is the type of problem that can be solved with a global view. I think it requires a look at the individual. A case-by-case basis. The human race is just not known for it’s overwhelming tolerance or understanding.
OK, now there’s TWO intelligent, strong women on board. Any more?
wow R you have been lucky..or maybe I have been unlucky…
3 now. R has been lucky. I lived with a few men (family) that pulled this crap all the time. Plus my boss. Pluss his subordinate. Plus my next boss. Plus nearly all of Australian politics. Plus a fair amount of American politics. Plus most of my time in Greece..
I think you need to also note that SOME women are crazy, and hopefully they don’t read this.. if they do i feel so sorry for anyone who deals with them in the aftermath.
Lol. We need a term for that too. Somewhere in these comments some said something about Glen Close and using the term ‘Forresting’ from Fatal Attraction ( I think)
That said, any boss that says “Can’t you do something right?” deserves to be punched in the face, so i agree with this article in the context that has been brought forward
Well I really appreciate this article. I’ll cop to saying this kind of thing to my wife and I’m sure it does nothing but make her all the more upset. I’m not convinced that this kind of statement is always intended to manipulate, but I can certainly see that side of things. In any case, it’s insensitive to say the least. I’m going to have to give this one another read because I really think it says a lot.
I think there’s some truth to the article, but there is also some legitimate truth in women’s penchant to overreact. As an example – Husband/Sig other comes home late from work. Did not have time to call because he had X, Y, and Z come up. When he gets home, wife reads him the riot act for not calling and forgetting to buy milk like they talked about that morning.
Yes, he should have called, and yes, it was foolish of him to forget, but this is small potatoes. He not cheating on her, he can go get milk and it will take 5 minutes – the solutions are easy. And yet, his failure to get the milk and call are somehow representative of some fundamental disrespect or some deep chasm developing in the marriage or relationship.
I describe a hypothetical, but my guess is that people can probably relate to the experience. It *is* irrational for the wife in this circumstance to get or remain upset at the husband. He was late, because he had to be late, because crap had to get done, and that crap was on his mind, so the milk, which is inconsequential (since he can simply go get it, and frankly it’s just milk) in the grand scheme of things goes out the window.
It’s not a statement about her, or their relationship, or his sense of responsibility, it’s just life. And so I think that while the perception that all women are inherently crazy is absolutely sexist, and I agree that Gaslighting may have something to do with it, claiming that women *do* behave sometimes in a way that is unnecessarily emotional is *not* necessarily entirely inaccurate.
You insensitive bastard. Why do you hate women? I’ll never forgive you. I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!
Uh, saying women have a penchant to overreact is sexist, dude. We don’t. That’s the point of this article. Saying we do rather than exploring WHY a wife is mad at her partner for forgetting the milk (had a long day, SO has a penchant for being thoughtless, she has a short temper, was necessary for dinner and SO fucked everything up, marriage is on the rocks, etc) you gaslight her as just being a crazy bitch because women be crazy.
It really boggles my mind when men say shit like “women have a penchant to overreact” as if your bros act the same with you as they do in a relationship. I’ve dated men, you have not, and they are NOT logical – they are human. They run the full gamut of emotions and express them in all sorts of different ways. Add in the complexities of attraction and love and lust, and people act very differently than they do with friends. I can’t chestbump or wrestle my husband when we need to work out life responsibilities and trials.
It also boggles my mind because dudes act as if they are Vulcans. Yes, the “Act like a Man box” demands that men act tough and not outwardly emotional as that would make them like women. I get that. But the reality is is that men act with emotions, overreacting, illogical emotions, all the time. Just today I was screamed at by some random man for ignoring him calling me “baby” 50 times in a row. No woman has ever done that to me. Last week I was at the bar and two dudes started going at each other because one looked at the other’s gf. Chest to chest, screaming at each other. Seen that many a time between men, but only once between women. And then I read in the news that one boy shot another boy, killing him, at a local school. Did you know only 2 female school shooting incidents by women have been documented?
I guess only men get to have their emotions justified. Women “have a penchant for overreaction” and men are just driven to it.
DK says:
“Uh, saying women have a penchant to overreact is sexist, dude. We don’t.”
“It also boggles my mind because dudes act as if they are Vulcans.”
So……it’s sexist for men to say women overreact, but not sexist for you to say men under-react?
LOL, you just can’t MAKE THIS STUFF UP! Holy crap, did you think about what you were typing?
“He was late, because he had to be late, because crap had to get done…It’s not a statement about her, or their relationship, or his sense of responsibility, it’s just life… claiming that women *do* behave sometimes in a way that is unnecessarily emotional is *not* necessarily entirely inaccurate.”
Hmm, there’s a problem with this. It’s true that sh*t happens, but the issue here is not with the lateness, but with the agreement that there would be communication about it if something came up. From the woman’s point of view, she and her partner have an agreed-upon time when they can expect the other person to be home. If one can’t be there at the agreed-upon time, it is good behavior to communicate that failure so that expectations aren’t raised for nothing, and plans aren’t messed up (say the woman has been home with a baby all day and is hanging on every minute so she can hand the baby off and go have a shower).
The issue is not with the lateness, which happens to everyone, but with the lack of knowledge and information, the expectations which are crushed, and the feeling that the woman wasn’t important enough for her partner to take the time to be kind and make a one-minute phone call.
Perhaps some people don’t think trading that one minute for a half hour or hour of waiting is important; I say it’s not fair to waste someone’s time that way, when they could be spending it doing something more enjoyable. Having an expectation of simple decent behavior such as this from one’s partner doesn’t seem irrational to me at all.
Your hypothetical SERIOUSLY lacks context and is useless.
In reality, the argument over milk is not something that happens the first time milk is forgotten. It’s generally not going to go down like that if a guy who always picks up the milk misses it just one time and his GF or wife flies off the handle. Nada. Usually there is a history of forgetting or intentionally not picking up or skipping out on domestic tasks. That can grate on the partner, and she can feel disrespected over time which can understandably lead to an outburst of anger.
Glad that you explained to some of your readers what gaslighting is. The kids just say gassing these days.
A couple of bones to pick. 1) Everyone is entitled to believe their emotions and opinions are valid, right? So if I think someone is overreacting, am I to keep that belief to myself? In some cases many men believe that a perceived overreaction is in fact a manipulation not unlike gaslighting. IE If I make this very uncomfortable for him, his behavior will change to my liking.
2) What’s good for the goose isn’t always what’s good for the gander. In the case of the “dick” boss. I had a manager who loved me like a son but criticized me relentlessly when things weren’t up to snuff but also praised me when I did well. His management technique was equal parts rod and carrot. Is it possible “dick” boss’s passive-aggressive style was just not the right one for your friend?
3) What’s good for the goose isn’t always what’s good for the gander Part II. Men constantly rib each other. We could theorize all day about why we do it. Periodically, we catch feelings due to the teasing and have to learn to laugh it off. Sometimes we forget that tagging something with “I’m just fucking with you” doesn’t make it go away.
4) It’s nearly impossible to have a constructive when one person believes the other is coming from a very strong emotional place. It’s even more difficult when one party is crying. And it’s tougher yet if one side believes the other may be laying it on thick. It’s not unreasonable to apologize for upsetting someone and waiting for that someone to egress from a highly agitated state before having a truthful, honest and emotional conversation.
5) I’d be very, very surprised if you weren’t on one end or the other of gaslighting with your male friends. Even if it doesn’t hit its mark, any joke with a little bit of painful truth in it (as you see it) is something of a gaslight by your definition, right?
6) If women aren’t crazy does that imply men are or aren’t assholes? The mass media impression, which women seem to read as gospel, is that men are insensitive and selfish as a matter of course. I’ve always felt that this was as valid as “women are crazy.” However, it seems that the validation for women not being crazy is that men are, indeed, assholes. The Steinem quote makes sense to me but possibly for a different reason. Maybe we have to unlearn the idea that men and women think the same. “Gender hormones” color our perceptions and our gut responses to those perceptions.
Very thoughtful article. Thanks for writing.
On a related note, isn’t it gaslighting to tell someone that he’s gaslighting?
This article is completely off the mark. The reason why men say “Women are crazy.” is because all too often women DO act irrationally. The comments in the opening paragraph do not describe valid concerns men have, they describe people being jerks, which is not the same thing.
Now, if somehow people get twisted to the point where they think saying “Calm down.” is an attack on someone, then clearly something has gone quite wrong.
‘Women are crazy.” is because all too often women DO act irrationally’
Half the time women get crazy is when people say exactly what you did. I wasn’t even mad until i saw that comment because every argument I’ve had with male relatives about them not doing shit in the house started with them saying I was crazy. its not a big deal right? I mean its just forgetting to get something/clean your room so the cockroaches don’t hide in there/clean your own damn clothes etc. Except when it wasn’t done for a YEAR (a spider ran into one of their rooms and I couldn’t find it again).
Women are crazy. Men are crazy. When you have to use that as your ONLY reasoning however that just makes you a tool. Or a gaslighting tool.
Great article.
Our ruling false-elite is gaslighting us all: Bush and Cheney committed 9/11. Any who don’t already have moral authority on the truth of their treason (abetted by PNAC Netanyahu’s false Jews now misleading the State of Israel) can download a free copy of an Emeritus Professor’s sedulous, peer-reviewed proof from Google Scholar. David Ray Griffin’s “The New Pearl Harbor” http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/new_pearlharbor.pdf is the work of a gentle academic of probity which can result in our restoring sanity to Our Nation by bringing to justice the same “gaslighting” faction which assassinated President Kennedy and Dr. King to send 58,000 of us to die in Vietnam killing millions of innocents on behalf of the five percent Roman Catholic colonial “elite” there which owned 95% of the wealth, led by a man who told a London radio audience Hitler was his “hero.”
“They” know what “they” are doing. Only the Roman Catholics on the Supreme Court illegally appointed a homosexual draft-dodger to the White House to commit 9/11, whose grandfather just “happened” to be a member of the Vatican-running Knights of Malta and acted as money conduit from the Vatican banker Rockefellers (for whom Bushes have fronted since Big Oil was built on unredressed murder and arson in 1870′s Cleveland) to the author of “I Paid Hitler,” the so-named “Rockefeller of Germany” Fritz Thyssen, Bush’s fellow papal knight.
Thomas Jefferson, Our Founder and Author, was a Prophet of G-d. He identified this historically traceable socio-political entity as “the real Anti-Christ,”"an engine for enslaving mankind,” whose Fifth Column is even now promoting and protecting illegal immigration by Hispanic Roman Catholics as an organized army of invasion for conquest. Their confidence is so great they’ve openly published their marching orders, as an institutionally signed Confession of Treason: “National Pastoral Plan for Hispanic Ministry,” Publication / Office of Publishing and Promotion Services, United States Catholic Conference, No. 199-7, ISBN-13: 978-1555861995
I enjoyed this well- written and interesting article. It’s my first time on this site and I will be coming back often to read more. I really appreciate hearing these views coming from men rather than just women. It’s refreshing to know that it’s not just ‘our problem’ and that there are men in the world who are just as passionate about issues women face in contemporary society as us. I don’t take extreme views that women are oppressed by men in all aspects of society but there are traces of former injustices in every day life and I feel that these problems can be addressed if both sexes discuss them . I happen to think that men suffer many injustices too- and these must be discussed. For example I think that the law favours women in divorce and I am totally against sending men to the army instead of both sexes. I fully welcome any discourse which seeks to dismantle gender stereotypes and to put an end to essentialising the sexes and this article definitely fits into that discourse.
**smirk**
I read this article when it was posted to the original blog. I am SHOCKED at how many people get defensive over this topic. Seriously? I understand that some men have it really shitty but they don’t live in a culture that tells them they’re crazy for being upset about any concern they have. A culture that makes them sensitive to the accusation “you’re crazy” or “you’re being irrational” well before the conversation comes up. Like… years before. ALL women (at least every one I have ever talked to and evidence seems to say that they are NOT the anomaly) are sensitive and on the look out for actions that might get them called “crazy.” They’re quick to separate themselves from “those crazy, nagging types” even if their partner is doing something hurtful to them. And it should be noted, it’s not just guys who do this to women (systematically), women do it to each other as well. Yes, on individual levels this can, and does, happen to men by women but there isn’t the cultural president in place like there is for women. That doesn’t make the individual cases less heartbreaking, just makes them not an epidemic.
Actually Jenna, I would say it’s totally the opposite.
Women are allowed to blow off steam and be expressive in a way that men would never be allowed.
Watch any episode of bridezillas to get my drift. Contrary to what you’re saying, I see overwhelming societal PERMISSION to have a tantrum in public.
The fact that women are not called on this behavior makes me think that society really treats women like children. I believe that sometimes the way we treat boys can be abusive, I think on balance I think boys and girls should be treated somewhere in the middle of the two polar opposites of how we treat boys and girls. Frankly, the way I was brought up and most guys I see around me, being taught that nobody else has an obligation to care about your emotional state taught us to master our emotions–an important tool in navigating life’s difficulties as an adult.
Have a look at any police blotter and tell me the ratio of police having to respond to fights between guys as opposed to fights between women.
A fight is the ultimate tantrum in public but it’s guys doing it.
Don’t forget “boys will be boys” – the ultimate dismissal of responsibility for controlling one’s impulses.
JM:
I’m not sure what criminal behavior has to do with mainstream relationship behavior.
You’re trying to paint a contradiction. They’re not necessarily related.
As far as I’m concerned, your point is similar to the way feminists keep pointing to higher crime rates of men and claiming masculinity needs to be remolded: they’re conflating dysfunctionality with normal masculine behavior.
Also, a great portion of the time a “fight” involves a victim male, just as when violent things happen to women. I don’t think it’s necessarily even a majority of the time that both participants are irrational hotheads who are eager to do battle.
I myself have been forced into a fight I had no interest in, and fleeing/help was not an option. Also, fist-fights are more often associated with alcohol or drugs as is most other bad behavior of both sexes–not so with relationship issues.
Besides which, let’s accept your point: you just pointed out a realm in which men MORE TYPICALLY OVER-REACT (i.e. fist-fights are much much more often a male problem).
Are you saying that there are no instances in which women are more prone to over-react? Sex differences only exist when it casts men in the more negative light? Grow up.
Also, please look at my comments with dad onthe run about women’s much greater tendency to relational aggression.
Just because a woman (or man) reacts to 1 ranked situation (1-10 scale) (as judged by neutral observers) with emotions like it’s a 9 issue does not mean the other person is obligated to treat it like a 9 issue.
I would like to see boys and girls both raised somewhere in the middle of the way we raise boys (boys don’t cry) and girls (let it all out). Because while some of the emotionally repressive behavior we teach boys can spill into abuse, learning that other people aren’t obligated to deal with your emotions teaches men to master their emotions–a key skill in navigating life’s hardships.
An additional thought:
Even accepting your point that men over-react by engaging in fist-fights, my point was society’s reaction to male and female over-reaction.
Men fist-fighting has very real social and legal consequences: i.e. men’s over-reaction is punished.
Not so with the bridezilla’s example I gave. More often than not (unless she does physical harm) women acting in an objectively defined way as OUTRAGEOUS will often be consoled. A man reacting in a similar way will try to be insulted or controlled. Just try imagining any grooms acting like these bridezillas and anticipating family members reactions.
“Lets you and him fight, honey, he pissed me off”….yeah. Men are bad. Women are good.
I have to be honest, I am at my wit’s end with women. My current girlfriend – and most likely FORMER girlfriend very soon – seemed like a normal, laid back, easy-going person when we began dating (and one of the very few women I’ve met like that in my entire adult life, to be quite frank). Over time, however, she has started fighting all the time with me over NOTHING. And now she is even getting mad when I don’t respond immediately to her texts, like when I am busy exercising or sleeping(!). I don’t think I can take it anymore. My blood pressure has literally gone up as a result of this relationship.
And yet, this is how literally EVERY woman I’ve had a romantic relationship with has eventually acted (and I’ve been dating for 20 years… I’m 35). It is literally crazy. All women have to do to make a guy happy is just be cool, accept us guys for who we are (just as we accept them for who they are, shoe obsession and all), and we would be perfectly content. But most women are apparently incapable of doing that.
Honestly, I do think it is because of pop culture, and the near-constant inundation of imagery that females are exposed to growing up. They have so much pressure on them to look a certain way, act a certain way, etc., and their lives seem to be just constant anxiety and drama. So, when they become adults, they reliably infuse those same negative emotions into their relationships, because that’s the only way they’ve ever known. It’s really a very sad reflection of our society.
On the other hand, at least 95% the guys I’ve been friends with for those 20 years are the exact opposite: the easiest people to get along with you will ever meet. I literally never fight with any of my friends or family, and I have even advertised to women on dating sites that I DO NOT DO DRAMA! I am self-aware enough to know that it simply makes me extremely unhappy to always be bickering and fighting, and so I just don’t put up with people like that, romantically or otherwise.
The story is always the same: you meet a girl, she acts cool at first, but after 3 months, or 6 months, it invariably changes. Why? I am nothing but nice to these women, supporting them and being there for them. Helping them move. Going out of my way to do things they like, and I never complain about stuff like that. You couldn’t find a more loyal, easy-going person than me. The problem is not me at all. It’s quite clearly them, every time.
I am convinced that if it weren’t for sex, men would almost certainly avoid women altogether. Just let them fight and bicker and cultivate their never-ending drama amongst themselves, while the guys will just hang out, have some beers, and get along perfectly fine for the rest of their lives. Honestly, if I am never with another woman, that may just be the ultimate recipe for true happiness. No stress, no drama. Just lasting peace.
Ok, so some of you are saying that this can’t be true, that there really are emotionally stable, laid back women out there. I do not deny this. I’ve known about 2 in 35 years, so logically/mathematically I know that they do exist. But I swear it’s like trying to find Bigfoot.
Where are these women? Is there some island somewhere they’ve all migrated to? Can someone provide me with a map to this fantastic, unbelievable place?
Stephen,
Your story is like a lot of men’s stories. While I think the Pickup Artist community is a lot like the crappy tactics used by women, there can be no doubt of it’s astounding level of success.
Ethics aside, pickup artists don’t try to understand women, just the rules by which their minds operate.
It truly seems that women (or at least enough of them to make the average man’s life hell) have a deep emotional need for drama. They need it like men need sex.
If you read pickup artists web-pages or books they will tell you to be unpredictable: break dates, change the location of a get-together, be slow to respond, buy ridiculously under-whelming gifts for birthdays (depending on how long you’ve been dating).
There are even sights for long term relationship game. Lookup PUA for LTR.
In essence, you can be the drama king and keep her jumping from foot to foot and get your life stable. Not only will she eat it up, but she will lust for you every minute of every day.
That sounds extremely mature.
If you play those silly games you’ll attract people who are into silly games. Have at it, but remember, you’ve made your own bed.
Pick up artists want long term relationships? Who knew. I mean, why? That seems totally counter to what PUA is all about.
Jill,
PUA may be part of a misnomer when talking about these web-pages for long term relationships. However, the only way I have been able to find these links is by using some search involving PUA for LTR. One premise that is carried over from PUA is unlocking the rules by which women work (rather than trying to understand them) and using this knowledge to continue to create heat in the relationship.
One of these web-pages is Athol Kay’s.
Here is a link to one of his articles:
ht tp://www.marriedmansexlife.com/2010/01/work-l-spot-she-will-beg-you-for-more.ht ml
I think this article could HARDLY be called misogynistic.
The simple fact is men DON’T reach out for relationship advice. If there were more tools OF ANY KIND (even if they were for feminists) the world would be a better place.
Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.
Imagine how many marriages could be saved if there were more relationship tools for men.
I think men and women would be much better served if men were to read the article I just linked rather than the one we’re commenting on.
The linked article is about bringing men & women together.
As can be seen by the comments this article is about driving men and women apart, by making grand sweeping stereotypes of men.
One of the most insightful views into the female mind I have ever gleaned I got from a PUA web-page.
That view in order to understand is rambling and I will try to put it into my own words.
On many threads regarding dating on this web-site a great many women have said that men don’t need to be jerks to get female attention: they just need to be confident.
When me and my wife lay together in bed and watch tv, or spoon and get ready to sleep I can’t help myself but to caress and explore her curves. It gives me pleasure to do–even if I have no intention of having sex. From what I have read this is very common among couples.
Men are physical in their pleasure centers: they prefer physically beautiful women–personality traits don’t matter so much (humble to confident is all good).
Just as it seems many women aren’t as concerned about looks (homely to adonis as long as he is confident). There is a kind of symmetry here.
Now, if women prefer confident men, how do women “caress” his confidence? By sh*t-testing. By throwing out tiny little hissy fits of displeasure over very minor things, or whimsical put-downs or other “bee in the bonet” type aggravations. It’s her way of caressing her man’s confidence. If men simply understood this practice more (in relationships or dating) it would be great for both sexes. Despite 40 years of gender-bending women like to think their man can protect them from an outside threat (1 million years of evoluntionary need don’t go away that quickly).
If a man buckles like a belt to every naggling little petty disappointment or scowl a woman has, she will lose respect for him. In this way, men who are overly concerned about a woman’s happiness are only nailing the coffin shut on the relationship.
NOBODY IS TEACHING MEN THIS!
If anything, PUA teaches men to accept women for who they are. Rather than trying to put them on a pedestal and inflect all this distorted notions of purity into women (i.e. trying to define them), PUA is about an honest search of what makes women tick.
If you don’t like what they find, that’s hardly their fault.
If they put to use what they find to get access to female companionship, I would agree that they are on the ethical bubble and it is a rather mercenary way to view love.
However, when feminists made marriage a thing of the past and destroyed any kind of social contract to stay together through thick and thin between men and women, they turned the dating world into a shark tank.
It may have taken a subset of men 40 years to catch up to a very large and very sharky subset of women, but they’re here now and that’s not going to change.
What PUA’s are doing is far less mercenary and cruel then the way millions of women treat millions of men. PUA is far smaller members wise compared to the millions of women who practice divorce theft, or paternity fraud, or any number of things to destroy men.
You may not like PUA, but they’re just a symptom of our craptastic culture–not the cause. Men like Glenn Sacks and fathersandfamilies.org are the solution–restore the social contract between men and women.
The commonality in all of these relationships is YOU. If this problem just “happens” with every woman you date, perhaps the problem is not them?
“The story” may always “be the same,” but you’re the main character. You are quick to blame your girlfriends but you have yet to look in the mirror.
“You couldn’t find a more loyal, easy-going person than me. The problem is not me at all. It’s quite clearly them, every time.” Right. It could not POSSIBLY be you. You repeat the same pattern over and over but it’s other people’s fault – nah, it’s because women are crazy, right?
Hey JM:
The same thing could be said of women who are told they are over-emotional by all their past lovers. Could it really be all of the past lovers who were “the problem?”
maybe she finds you just as insufferable as you find her Stephen..just saying
I know alot of women like that… problem is they probabally don’t fit into your social steretype. Trouble is that you seem to be attracted to superficial girls
The article puts women in the victim’s role and completely overlooks the fact that man are being “gaslighted” – what an asinine term by the way – by women, too. And it plainly misrepresents a bunch of things, for example this scenario: “When these women receive any sort of push back to their reactions, they often brush it off by saying, “Forget it, it’s okay.” That “forget it” isn’t just about dismissing a thought, it is about self-dismissal.” — Excuse me? It’s not about self-dismissal, it’s about dismissing the other person. It’s just a slightly more polite way of saying, “Screw you, I don’t want to argue about it.” It all comes down to communication and respect. Women who are “gaslighted” – and I’m not denying it happens a lot – should consider standing up for themselves. For example, if their husband makes disrespectful remarks and puts them down emotionally, why do they marry them or stay with them? The author reminds of those who simply present their opinion as fact – climate change doubters, conservatives and the like. For example, this: “It is much easier for us to place our emotional burdens on the shoulders of our wives, our female friends, our girlfriends, our female employees, our female colleagues, than for us to impose them on the shoulders of men.” What? She just SAYS this. It’s what SHE thinks. I beg to differ.
Actually, HE says this. The author is a man.
This rang so true to me, and I like to consider myself a tough girl who can stand up for herself. But so often I don’t because I get blindsided and…the bottom line is that I loathe the old “just joking” bullshit. For so many reasons.
It always starts early, and often, and becomes automatic so fast. Policing. It’s another version of emotional burial and effective social control.
not saying this applies to you- but when someone says ‘just joking’ about something- say a comment he made about your weight (for example), they are not kidding about the comment. They suddenly realised that you are unwilling to be rational about the topic and they are looking for a way out. They are kidding about being on a level with you where they feel comfortable talking about your wieght.
I think a lot of women are going to read this article, and use it to mean no matter what the man is doing he is a sh*tbag.
What do most people (of both sexes) say when they want to diffuse an argument? “Calm down” or other variants come to mind. What do most people (of both sexes) say when they want to bow out of an argument? “Nevermind” or “whatever” come to mind.
Now, no matter how conciliatory or amiable a man is trying to be, women will think he is actually trying to be manipulative or “gaslighting” whatever that mean.
Feminists want to constrain men in such a way that no matter WHAT they do, they are miserable bastards.
Too talkative? You’re needy.
Too silent? You’re unempathetic
Ask her to calm down? You’re manipulative
Tell her nevermind? You’re abusive
Obey every commandment in feminist handbook and buckle like a belt and grovel like a slave–you’re meek and uninteresting
Feminists want to knock down traditional ideals of “good man” and replace them with their own even tighter strictures (and much worse shaming). Maybe it’s time to take a line from Rage Against the Machines and say: “F*ck you I won’t do what you tell me!”
It’s time for men to follow their own moral compass, f*ck this bs.
Right on!
The article is so fraught of errors and fallacies that it can only be accepted as cheap entertainment
And by that you mean ‘calm down, it’s not a real problem’?