Scarlett Harris tries not to let her bad dating experience influence the way she sees all the other men in the world.
My friend April’s catch cry seems to be, “All men are assholes.” I refuse to believe this, but sometimes certain people can make it mighty hard.
A month or two ago I met this guy. We exchanged flirty eye contact and eventually I got up the courage to add him on Facebook—today’s equivalent of courtship’s first step. Flirty Facebook messages followed, and we eventually hooked up just before Christmas.
While I made no secret that I was into him, he was a little harder to read. However, when he approached me at a party, kissed me, and invited me back to his house that night, I figured it was safe to assume that he was into me, too. He whispered sweet nothings into my ear, told me I was making him crazy with some of the things I’d written to him (I didn’t think I’d written anything out of the ordinary, but to each their own), and led me to a secluded corner of the party for more of the same. Again, safe to assume he was into me.
Then, after a couple of emails the next couple of days about how we were each feeling (physically, not emotionally) the day after the party, nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
I’d even asked him if, after Christmas, he’d like to catch up for a drink to get to know each other better. A date, I believe the kids call it these days. No reply. Come on, dude, you’re 30. Call a sister back. Even just to tell me that you had fun that night, but that was all it’d amount to. We’re not in high school anymore.
And it wasn’t even like I’d gone back to his house like he’d asked. Maybe then it’d be understandable that all he’d wanted was sex and then decided to drop me like I was hot. But I went home with my friends and he went home with his. One friend suggested maybe all he had wanted was sex, and when he knew he couldn’t get that from me on the first date kiss, he figured I wasn’t worth the effort. (Full disclosure: I am.) But, again, JUST TELL ME! Is it really that hard to end a ten-second email saying thanks, but no thanks.
What makes it even more awkward is that I work with him. Not in the same department, but close enough so that I see him several times a week. And he’s nice as pie: smiles, says hello, asks how I am. I smile curtly and respond; we’re adults, after all, even if he hasn’t really been demonstrating this.
Why do some men insist on acting this way? And, I’m sure, a lot of men would assert that women act hot and cold, too. I’ve certainly been guilty of it in the past, but, as I mature, I prefer to tell people straight if they’ve upset me or if I’m just not that into them.
Even one of the guys I’ve spoken to about my dilemma boiled his actions down to his Y chromosome. I just don’t believe this. I know plenty of men who are the polar opposite of this trope; then again, I know plenty of men who uphold it, too. I suppose, despite what pop culture, bogus science, and years of socialization have told us, it’s really all about the individual, no matter whether they come from Venus or Mars. Douches come from both planets.
♦◊♦
After writing this piece for my blog, The Early Bird Catches the Worm, a couple of weeks ago, I received an email from the subject of the post apologizing for his actions, or lack thereof, thanking me for calling him out, and recognizing that, despite some personal issues which he filled me in on, he should have simply called me back. So, to him I say, thank you for restoring my faith in humanity and showing me that you actually don’t give men a bad name.
This post originally appeared here.
—Photo RussellReno/Flickr
About Scarlett Harris
Vocalyze
In all seriousness, what did the guy do wrong? He didn’t email you back? He didn’t show the proper interest or lack thereof? He wanted sex after one kiss instead of twenty? He wasn’t looking for a girlfriend? In our completely unstructured dating (hook up) world what are the rules? They seem transparent to the women of the world, but as a disinterested observer (male) they aren’t all that obvious.
I have my own rules that would be considered extreme by most and untenable. But then no one will ever have a problem understanding what’s going on.
” He wanted sex after one kiss instead of twenty?”
I’ve read the article several times. There is no indication that he wanted sex with her at all. As far as I can tell that’s something her friends read into his actions.
But the sequence of events seems to go:
Made out at a party-> girl gives every indication the next step is sex -> he cuts off contact
In fact the author points out that if he’d at least had sex with her she would have known he was just after the sex. Which sort of puts him into a catch-22 if he doesn’t like her. Have sex with her, be called a deceitful cad; don’t have sex with her, be called an asshole.
And then I can imagine the phone call: ‘Hi, I’m not that into you.’ ‘But I was gonna have sex with you and everything.’ ‘Yeeeeaaah, well what can I say, I just wasn’t into you enough to have sex with you.’
I can imagine how well that would go over.
I wonder how many guys have sex with a woman they don’t want to and stop calling just to be able to break up with her cleanly without being knocked on their back foot with ‘well why don’t you like me?’ The woman will just assume all he was after was sex.
“So, to him I say, thank you for restoring my faith in humanity and showing me that you actually don’t give men a bad name.”
BTW, as far as I can tell this kind of flaking out is hardly gender-specific. Good to know that all the women who flake out on their dates or potential dates or boyfriends or husbands give all women everywhere a bad name too.
Good story, and I’m glad the author got some resolution. Too often people are left hanging forever due to simple thoughtlessness, which is independent of gender.
But he didn’t event flake. Flakes promise something and then don’t deliver. So I could understand if she was mad at him for standing her up, but he didn’t stand her up. He just stopped corresponding.
This story actually makes her and her friends look bad in my view. Calling all guys assholes for something one guy did is bad enough. But when that one guy is just lazy/indifferent and then both he and the rest of us are called names… I get miffed.
If men only want sex, there is something a whore. Pay her, do what you gotta do, and she can leave. I dont see the point of men acting like this with other women. But sounds like ole boy was cheating and trying to hit that for as little $$$ as possible.
“There is no indication that he wanted sex with her at all.”
And let’s be real, there aren’t very many reasons for a man to invite a woman to his place aside from sex.
“And let’s be real, there aren’t very many reasons for a man to invite a woman to his place aside from sex.”
Stereotyping alert.
The author gave no indication that she wasn’t going to have sex with him so why would he drop her if he just wanted sex?
Note:
“And it wasn’t even like I’d gone back to his house like he’d asked. Maybe then it’d be understandable that all he’d wanted was sex and then decided to drop me like I was hot.”
She was giving every indication that they would end up having sex at some point in the future. Why would he bail _before_ getting sex if all he wanted was sex?
I’m guessing she threw off a few red flags(for him) and he withdrew. Maybe because he didn’t want to have sex with someone he was no longer interested in emotionally(being an actually decent person)? And then he started to avoid her because he wanted to avoid drama or explaining why he was no longer interested in her? Guys do get the ‘don’t upset girls’ line, ya know?
Considering that he eventually got back to her and cleared everything up, I lean more towards the: we weren’t compatible, wasn’t going to have sex with you.
“But sounds like ole boy was cheating and trying to hit that for as little $$$ as possible.”
Cheating on someone he kissed once at a party? Jeezus.
Incidentally for all of you women who think ‘men only want one thing’, why the fuck do you date? Why do you want to have relationships with people you think are emotionally inferior to you?
t.u., you give me hope! I never heard a woman who just cuts through the B.S. better! It seems our author and her friends (even the male one) are firm believers in the “All men want it all the time” B.S. Years ago (before I was old and decerpit) a couple of times I turned down women who “hit” on me. To say they didn’t take it well would be an understatement. I was accused of ,being a “closet” gay, having some sort of “sexual problems”, or just being some sort of “pervert”. It always amazed me how you could be accused of these things for doing the right thing( after all, I was married as were some of these women). I actually felt guilty, like I had done something to lead these women on! It was in recent years that I realized it wasn’t me , it was their belief that “All men want it all the time”
bobbt,
It’s nice to hear your story. I’m glad you said no, but most men would not have hesitated. Most men would have been on it in a heartbeat, hence the ‘stereotype’ of men wanting it all the time.
“It’s nice to hear your story. I’m glad you said no, but most men would not have hesitated. Most men would have been on it in a heartbeat, hence the ‘stereotype’ of men wanting it all the time.”
Oh really, what if they weren’t attracted to her? Do you believe most women just want to use a man for his money as well? Any other stereotypes you care to share?
Most men wouldn’t have hesitated in saying “no”.
I think otherwise…The woman would be have to be really really unattractive for the average man to say no
There are plenty of men who would say no. Lots of reasons to say no. You don’t feel attracted to her, goes for guys instead, has a partner already, has a crush on someone, is sick, is celibate, not ready for a relationship, etc.
Men are not mostly automatic sexual beings….
I think you’ve summed it up nicely, t_u
My vote for comment of the day, T_U, you rock!
“Stereotyping alert. ”
I suppose he wanted to discuss the GOP debates???
Btw, I rarely date. There are only a handful of men I’d even think about dating. Every blue moon I may go on a date, but nothing serious
No surprises there.
Yep, cuz why would I want to date someone who is so licentious???
Btw I’m very attractive and can be very sweet (believe it or not). So I could get a boyfriend if I wanted.
Alice: You do recognize that saying that there aren’t many reasons for a man to invite a woman to his place aside from sex is harmful in just the same way as saying that there aren’t many reasons for a woman to invite a man to her place aside from sex. Both affects how valid any subsequent non-consent from the inviter is regarded.
Huh? How can the cold shoulder give this one man a bad name let alone all men? You’re just entitled that’s all. He kissed you and you think you deserve something more from him, but you don’t.
It’s about courtesy. If you give someone indications that you’re interested in them, and they return in kind, then there is usually a follow-up. She let him know she was interested and wanted to continue on, and he ignored her flat-out. That’s just rude. Sure, it’s a backdoor way of saying “Not interested anymore,” but what is so wrong with just being honest and saying it to someone. By doing that, you’re respecting them. It’s courteous. It’s like, “Hey, I gave that person the impression that I was into them. She has indicated her interest in me. I’ve changed my mind. The least I can do is tell her.” What is so wrong with that??? It doesn’t mean that she’s unstable and heartbroken after just a few emails and a make-out session. It’s just a respectful, human thing to do to let the person know you’ve changed your mind. That’s all.
How did he giver her the impression that he wanted to date her? He didn’t! Like I said already before this is about hurt feelings because of entitlement. What’s rude is thinking that a kiss means a date.
I’m with the rest of the people responding. I don’t understand how what he did was particularly rude, or inconsiderate, or anything. It seems to be that he wanted to hook up, and you didn’t. He tried to “work his magic” to get you to hook up with him but whispering sweet nothings in your ear and you didn’t respond. At that point, he dropped it.
I agree with IDBY.
Yeah, I agree with what the others have said here. He just wanted a hookup, you weren’t into it, so he stopped corresponding. I don’t think that’s particularly rude.
I’m not into the hookup culture, but as long as a guy clearly telegraphs that’s what he wants out of the deal, nobody’s been deceived or manipulated. And this guy clearly telegraphed his intent – inviting you back to his place the first night you went out, exaggerating the significance of your notes. You didn’t take the bait, so he didn’t stay in touch. I don’t see what the problem is, other than you and he obviously wanted different things.
Even one of the guys I’ve spoken to about my dilemma boiled his actions down to his Y chromosome. I just don’t believe this.
Thank goodness you didn’t. His actions aren’t the result of the Y chromosome. They may be the result of how he was raised as a result of having a Y chromosome. The Y itself didn’t cause the actions, or inactions, its what one is taught because of having the Y.
Overall in this story it seems that you were upset that he just cut off contact abruptly. Which is perfectly understandable. I had something similar happen to me last year. Had been chatting up a woman over text message. Talking about work, trading good morning/night messages, etc. Then out of nowhere boom she cut off contact. Several months later she’s married. Yeah it bothered me that she cut off contact (and I’ll say that if I had been ranting and calling her a jerk for doing that people would proabably be lining up a round the block to call me on it) but in the end I just let it go.
His behavior may be frustrating but I don’t think its a matter of wondering if he’s an asshole for doing it.
Not to put to much of a point on it, and the scenario is all too common,” We want something, something doesn’t want us. We want it more.” Everyone has had that meeting, relationship etc etc that seemed to be going fine and out of the blue. Nothing. We rack our brains on why did it happen, how did it happen, what did I do wrong, how can I fix it. I think the driver is inside us, and trying to piece together what we did to cause such a reaction or lack there of. When the driver should be, to stop letting it have a place in your life when it never had a place in your life to begin with. Some of the mindsets in these responses in regards to “all he wanted was sex” and it didn’t work out, or “that is why he said this or that” are no different than this very article. Your still judging off of one or a few experiences. The inadequacies or insecurities for this article are within Ms. Harris (sorry Ms. Harris) not the sweet nothing guy. We can’t decide when something will bother us…..but we can decide for how long it will bother us.
He didn’t appear to do anything wrong. It actually looks like the author kind of embarrassed and shamed a man because she couldn’t live up to her own ideals, notably:
But she did not do that. She continued to be coy. Eventually she wrote this article and was straight about it all, at which point the guy gets in touch.
Oops!
All of that is fine. What I do not like is how the author appears to want to justify herself even AFTER she finds out that she was in the wrong.
LMAO. You pull no punches. I love it.
Crap. That _was_ me trying to pull my punches.
I really need to work on that.
I catch myself doing the same thing sometimes with the women I pursue. I Flirt, I date and don’t call back. Maybe it’s intimacy issues, maybe Men have transformed themselves from being hunters to becoming fisherman (catch & release). Oh well that’s life.
Read “He Just Not That Into You”…You are marvelous….Move on!
I have talked/flirted with boys in 8th grade….the boys were hot for me and told everybody we were dating (!!)… I was just having conversation (I already had a real BF in the next county)….being polite and friendly….amazing to me what they read into that! (I guess they already had some romantic soap opera already written up in their heads and they couldn’t believe that I didn’t want to play a part in the show)….
At my 25th HS reunion they were both staring at my as- and trying to sidle up closer to me to make it look like they were just casually bumping into me….I blocked them with my friends (who gave them both stern looks and scared them off!)….
Move on, for your own sake…if a guy really wants you, he does not flake….if he really wants you, he will still chase you 30 years later (even if you give him the cold shoulder)…oh yeah, and they both made Facebook requests that I turned down!
I could understand coming to conclusions about men if this guy was the ONLY man she had ever met in her entire life. But, I’m guessing she actually knows many men – family, coworkers, neighbors, friends, etc. I suspect this is not the first romantic experience she has had with a man — how did those turn out? Is her opinion of men completely dependent on the behavior of the last attractive man she talked to?
If you are looking to figure out what men are like, why was HE the main source of evidence?
I suspect that what you mean by “all men” is “men that I want to date,” or “men as potential partners,” and not “all men,” exactly. I don’t know how you feel about any brothers, fathers, male in-laws, male teachers, and male friends in your life, but surely they could provide some clues as to what men are like. A man that you had a brief, intense encounter with is hardly a good source for sweeping conclusions about half the world’s population.
P.S. Whenever I hear anyone make a comment like “all men” or “all women,” I say, “Really? Does that include your father?” or “Really? Does that include your mother?”
I admit to being a woman who used to not call someone back when I changed my mind about being interested in someone. But that was then and I was very wrong. I can’t do that anymore. It’s rude. We should all learn to take a bit of responsibility for our actions. If we change our minds about someone, they deserve to know it. And not wait until the umpteenth unanswered email/phone call/text to figure it out. It’s actually pretty simple.
How could I possibly give 3 billion people a bad name all by myself, unless that person was already treating those 3 billion people unfairly?
I cannot singlehandedly give men a bad name. Not unless you are assigning me a completely exaggerated, unrealistic role in your life. Or you are predisposed or prejudiced already.
Would that really have felt better, a “Thanks, but no thanks” with no details? I’m guessing, like most people who feel spurned (which is almost all of us at some point), you would still be wondering why. What happened? Did I say or do something wrong? Those details not only take more than ten seconds to dash off, but they also tend to make things worse, not better, as most of us also learn from having given or received the detailed versions. This is why, “It’s not you, it’s me” is so popular. It’s true in a way that the imagination can spin it however it like, so the hearer can think, “She’s been burned by love and this is too soon,” even if the speaker really means, “It’s great that you’re enjoying the onion dip, but that kiss reminded me I hate onions.”
I’m glad you got closure with this guy, but for hypothetical guys hoping not to be assholes, what is a more polite way of signaling the end of his interest, if the reason for that interest is something that he expects would hurt your feelings? And when the tables are reversed, what would you say to a guy who you showed interest in but changed your mind after kissing, that you would expect him to appreciate as a courtesy and keep him from thinking all women are bitches?
For me, a simple, “You’re a cool person, but I’ve changed my mind” would suffice. I don’t need the details. There are lots of thing about me that people aren’t going to like, things that might not be apparent at first, like anyone else. But if someone changes their mind, at least I can walk away knowing that the person respected me enough to say so, instead of just writing me off, and letting me stew about it. In addition, I’ll be able to respect them too and that mutual respect will help me get over the disappointment of losing a crush. I just don’t understand why it’s better to walk away and say nothing and leave someone waiting for a communication that will never come.
Fair enough. I think that would occasionally work, but I also think a lot of people (men and women) have experiences of trying to courteously signal their lack of interest like that, and being called names as the dumpee tries to save face, or the dumpee trying to talk them out of it, or getting pressed for more details, or mocked (“Oh my god! Did you think I was in to you?”) or just plain hurting someone’s feelings to their face, which most people find an unpleasant thing to do. It’s a tricky thing to do no matter how serious the relationship, but if the extent of a budding relationship was some flirting and kissing at a party, I don’t think that triggers much obligation to announce or explain a change of heart. Sure, that’ll feel like an asshole or bitch move at the time, but given the way those discussions sometimes go, avoiding it is sometimes the most considerate way to handle it for all involved.
You make a lot of sense, for sure. I think I was responding more to other people’s comments than to the story that was written. So, I went and re-read the article. If I had been in the writer’s shoes, I’d probably not care that much that the dude stopped contacting me. I think I have been in that situation before and didn’t really care. My comment above has more to do with if you’d been out on a couple of dates already, or more. However, I do think that not saying anything to the other person only makes it more convenient for the dumper. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not so tactful that I know exactly what to say. I did date a guy for a few weeks. I ended it. I told him that I even though he was a great guy, it turned out that I just wasn’t ready to date yet. I blamed it on a bad breakup and said I wasn’t as ready as I thought I was. It was partially true. I couldn’t tell him that it was mostly him and that I didn’t feel any chemistry. He was really a nice guy. But I could never have just stopped answering his phone calls. No way.
There was a woman I knew who invited me to her place. I tried to avoid it because I knew I didn’t want a relationship with her. She eventually persuaded me to go. We made out and were on the verge of having sex. I stopped, said I needed to go home and sleep and never contacted her again. She contacted me a few times and I avoided meeting her. During that period in my life I was very depressed and I knew I didn’t trust her so I couldn’t be with her.
I don’t think I was an asshole. I just wasn’t into her. A fact which I told her straight out before she got me to go to her place and she was hurt by that. She called me selfish and narcissistic. I felt guilty about that which is part of the reason I ended up going to her place.
BTW, Girls flake ALL. THE. TIME. This type of behaviour from women is NORMAL. Being able to call a guy an asshole for behavior the author admitted she engaged in in the past is another example of female privilege.
You are mistaken. Being able to call anyone an asshole is not the result of “female privilege” as you call it. It’s because ANYONE has a right as a human being to call someone an asshole if that’s how they are behaving. Admitting to behaving that way herself in the past, doesn’t lessen the fact that a guy is being an asshole in the present. And at worse, it makes her a hypocrite, which is something ALL HUMAN BEINGS are guilty of being, from time to time. So-called “female privilege” has nothing to do with it.
Nope. Not only is it female privilege, but it has a name… “women’s prerogative.
@ assman
What you’ve described was sexual assault. She verbally coerced you into engaging in sexual behaviour with her.
After that I don’t think you’re obligated to consider her feelings.
I met up with a girl I knew online, she visited for a week. I thought I was totally into her and the first day I was, after a few days something had changed…we had sex but I didn’t feel the same way about her and noticed she was wayyy more into me than I thought. I got pretty much no sleep trying to think of a way to let her down softly, I felt like a true asshole for not sharing the same feelings. It was my first relationship and I went from first kiss, to first sexual encounter in the same night, I literally was freaking out over it and felt so horrible. We went too fast, too soon, and I had gone from very little physical contact with someone to the whole shebang in 2 days, my feelings were a mess and I’ve never felt so confused in my life.
I told her about it and it tore her up, I felt like I just stomped on her heart and never have felt so evil or terrible in my life. She went back to her city and that was that…it was actually scary to have to tell someone that you misunderstood your feelings, scary that you don’t even trust your feelings and that you hurt someone in the process. She probably thought I was using her for sex even though I was genuinely trying to have a full relationship with her but I guess in the end it just wasn’t meant to be and we didn’t click right.
I think some guys and girls probably don’t call back, or tell you because they are absolutely petrified of doing it. It’s bad enough if you feel like someone likes you but your feelings change or you don’t like them the same, but to have to tell them and reject them it’s scary! Not all guys or girls want to use people but fear of confrontation is actually quite common I think.