Eva Woods doesn’t like Seth MacFarlane’s dullwitted, offensive schtick. But she is glad that it exists.
Before we get too deeply into this, I just want to make one thing very clear—I do not like Seth MacFarlane. Never have, never will. (It really matters to me that you all know this.)
This is about something bigger than yesterday’s Oscar shenanigans, but so you understand what compelled me to write it, here are the relevant details: Last night and this morning Twitter exploded after The Onion tweeted a joke about a 9 year old girl being the c-word. This post is not meant to defend the merits of that joke, or of any joke in particular.
The reason I wrote this is because after reading Pia Glenn’s article about it on xojane.com (go read it, it is excellent and funny and smart) I looked around for a serious defense of offensive comedy and I couldn’t find one.
So I decided to give it a shot.
When we talk about objections to jokes, there are two common arguments: The first is that a joke went too far over the line, that it was more offensive than funny, and that social mores don’t disappear just because we’re in Comedyland.
The second is that comedians have a responsibility to if not work against social problems, then at least not to give the jerks who honestly believe racist/misogynist/fuckwittist things the ammo they need to take down their favorite targets.
I want to talk about the problems with both of these arguments. Before that, though, I want to point out that NONE of this matters if you don’t value comedy.
If you see comedy as inherently unimportant, then none of this will matter to you. If you think that it’s more important not to offend, and that it is always more important to right social ills than it is to make jokes, this won’t apply to you. I understand that perspective, even if I don’t share it, and it’s a different article than this one. This is for people who truly appreciate the art of comedy, but who might sometimes feel conflicted about the effect it can have on the world around them.
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“He crossed the line.”
This is the sentiment I’m encountering most frequently on Twitter. That, and it’s corollary: It wasn’t funny/wasn’t even a joke.
Let’s knock these out one at a time.
The problem with crossing “the line” is that the line isn’t in one place. Maybe kids are off limits, because they’re across the line. Maybe only making rough jokes about those in positions of power is okay, because the weak are across the line. Maybe you’ll get really mad at a joke about killing cats, but not killing Rush Limbaugh. Cats are across your line.
My father is funny. He’s witty and smart and a huge Dave Chappelle fan, and can work blue when he needs to. But he’s also a Christian. To him, God is across the line.
I have a Dashboard Jesus. My dad does NOT think it’s funny. He thinks it’s disrespectful and blasphemous.
I think it’s hilarious.
And here’s the thing: We’re both right. It’s funny, disrespectful and blasphemous.
Now, I know what you’re thinking. Christians are the dominant religion—picking on them is okay in America. I’m right, Dad’s wrong.
But what if Dad was Jewish? Would I still be right? What if he was a Scientologist? I mean, they’re hilarious, but they’re definitely not the dominant religion, and MOST of them aren’t powerful.
What if I had a Dashboard Muhammed?
Now, Dad is allowed not to like my Jesus. He’s allowed to not ride in my car because of it. He’s allowed to tell me why he doesn’t like it, that I’m fucking up by having it, and that it’s not funny. But he can’t tell me not to have it, cause he’s not the boss of me and because that Dashboard Jesus is hilarious.
My point—that I’m making overly obvious as befits the not-writer I am—is that our lines aren’t in the same place. And while Dad (or you) can tell me I’m wrong, well, I’m ALLOWED to be wrong.
Now let’s talk about the other side, the “That wasn’t a joke, it was an insult/ threat/ display of rampant racism” or “It was wrong because it wasn’t funny.” side.
How are we defining comedy? Is it “something said with the intention of getting a laugh”? Or is it “something I think is funny and appropriate”?
Because for every person mad at a shithead joke, there’s another person laughing. I might agree with one of them or the other, but that’s still just my opinion. I will never tell someone to get offended at something they’re not offended by, just like I will never tell someone NOT to be offended by something they ARE offended by.
Oh, but “Threats Are Never Funny!”, “Racism Is Never Funny!”, “Abortion Is Never Funny!”, “Murder Is Never Funny!”
Now we’re back to where to place that line.
Moving on! (“Finally!” you scream.)
Let’s jump over to the social responsibility of comedians, with their voices in all those ears.
Should Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Louis CK, with their huge influence on America’s young people use their platforms for social good, or—at least—not for social harm?
Yeah, I think so. I also think they already do. But there are tons of people who disagree with me.
Lots of people think Jon Stewart gets on the air 5 days a week and poisons the mind of our youth with a biased, liberal agenda of lies. I think those people are wrong, but I don’t think they are less valuable than me. Or that their beliefs are less strongly held than mine. I think they’re wrong, end of sentence. Luckily, bunches of people agree with me, and with our viewership, we keep The Daily Show on the air. We vote for those beliefs with our time and our eyeballs. The same way an epic asshole such as Sean Hannity gets kept on the air with other people’s time and eyeballs.
But say I’m wrong, and the first amendment shouldn’t apply to hateful people and that public voices can only work to do good. Let’s pretend that for a minute.
Colbert and CK wouldn’t be the only ones affected by such a change. What about the comic performing to crowds of 50 on the best night of his career? Can he be hateful? What about me, on my Twitter? I have 300 followers. What if I had 1?
What if the rule were: You don’t have to do good, you just can’t do harm? You don’t have to champion social change from the mic stand, you just can’t say anything offensive (to the greater good we are pretending isn’t arbitrary)
If we all agree on this greater good, the inherent absurdity of the human condition *goes away*. And with it, go a lot of jokes. You might be glad they’re gone, but I’m not. I will miss them as much as I would miss my Dashboard Jesus if he suddenly raptured his way out of my car.
So, send Daniel Tosh an email, and for heaven’s sake don’t go to his shows. Unfollow the Onion. Vote with your eyeballs. But don’t let criticism of comedy turn into prescription of comedy. Because when you do that, you’re telling me that my values are wrong, and what’s more, my wrongness means I don’t get a vote anymore.
And that vote matters to me. If every comic who ever made a terrible, indefensible joke was gone, I couldn’t use that vote to determine what they do next, and I want that freedom. A world in which no one is ever in danger of being offended is a world where Family Circus and Jay Leno are as good as comedy gets and that’s not a world I want to live in.
Photo—Chris Pizzello/AP
Speaking of Louis CK, doesn’t he have a routine where he describes his own daugher as an asshole and a c**t? That sounds a lot less subtle than the Onion’s tweet, but you’d never know it given how breathlessly people (especially on gender issues blogs) talk about him.
Feels like if it’s a comedian the social justice warriors have been plugging ad nauseam suddenly it’s not a big deal.
I am all for social justice! And father’s and mother’s not joking about how their own children our curse words. Do we know how Louis CK’s daugther feels about being called those names? How many men here today would enjoy their wives, girlfriends or daughters joking about calling them four letter words?
But hey, you want to call your own daughter an asshole or a c**t, go ahead. I bet she will respect you as much as you respect her.
Again it’s humor. You couldn’t possibly understand. I was raised with my father all Italians from Brooklyn. We were poor, problems galore. Our point of view and what we do with out intellect makes us different then most. We enjoy people. Simply put. Wether they call there kids cunts or grade a student top of its class. You can’t alienate one persons humor just because its wrong and different than yours. Grow up kiddos. We are Americans. Welcome to the wonderful land of indifference. Now if we were quoting gacy, or murders and rapists I understand but you guys are… Read more »
Having a different opinion from you isn’t alienating someone’s humor. I actually find that you enjoy to alienate those that don’t agree with you. Evident by both your previous posts. You don’t like the fact that people have different thoughts and beliefs that don’t agree with yours. Hence why you turn demeaning and show a lack of desiring a real discussion. All you want to do is mock people and attempt to shame them into your beliefs. We get it. Seriously. You think jokes are funny about raping or abusing women. You like the idea of a woman being hit… Read more »
You cannot psycho analyze me based off two responses to neurotic and naive people. He jokes about himself all the time. Listen to him before you judge patrice o neal. go listen to his stand up and his interviews. he constantly jokes about his problems and issues. You are too quick to judge and thats your problem. Your first judgement was on me and second was patrice. I defend against people like us not alienate you know why. Because people like you are so fast and quick to judge and analyze words.. email me. Lets talk and really talk before… Read more »
If you dislike both Louis CK and The Onion for doing essentially the same thing, then I have far less of a problem with that – it’s at least being consistent.
What I have a problem with is selective outrage over what the Onion did, but not Louis CK.
watch this video. Patrice puts it beautifully. Your comparing jokes intentionally made for humor not hurting anybody.. Those people you listed stood up for actions happening to others. Jokes are words not sticks and stones, love.
http://youtu.be/fjIuPSuYSOY
Daniel, I unfortunetly did watch your video. You should actually have put a warning on the video considering the content of it. So I will do it for you. For those that are curious about Daniel’s video, it describes graphic violent acts mainly against women. For those that continue to read my post, it describes the graphic violent acts mentioned in the video Daniel thought was said “beautifully” from Patrice. If you read past this point, you’ll being reading about them. What is funny about hitting a women in the back of the head (what he actually called a “donkey… Read more »
A warning? Where do you live? Your world seems to boring, over analytical and dead. Do you live in Arkansas? Have you lived in this world? Something is wrong with you.. And I can tell you it’s old dusty and boring. You are a boring person. You complain with these pretentious wanna be thought provoking opinions that only defend one point of view.. Self righteousness. Graphic violence? The world is violent. You will never change that. It’s the nature and history of our species. Do you think you can change that? You are way to confident with your rambling opinions… Read more »
Woah, what’s with the personal attacking? I’m scratching my head over here. It’s fine to disagree with my opinion and have reasonable comments and reasons why you disagree. But that’s not really what you are doing. You are no longer having a reasonable discussion Daniel. You are simply being abusive at this point. It’s unfortunate that you do not know how to handle talking to someone you disagree with skillfully, reasonably and intelligently.
So now your saying i dont know how to handle a conversation talking to somebody else with a different opinion without being “abusive” or skillfully intelligent? You are manipulative. I dont think you know what abuse is or attacking. You are way to sensitive for even words. You should really live in the real world and know what it is like out there to be abused and attacked by somebody. where do you live? in surburbia? do you have a gate at your cul de sac.. probably have a gardener too. You have no idea what its like to live… Read more »
Daniel, your comments speak for themselves. You’ve been very abusive. You’ve made your points personal attacks. You continue to do so here as well. By the way, I am not bothered by your comments. They are outlandish and untrue. However, the fact remains, your abusive. That’s your issue, not mine.
You are free to speculate all you want about where I come from and where I live. I don’t mind! I’m not here to prove anything to you either. 🙂 I know who I am.
You know who you are.. but we dont. You could beat little kids and men for all i know.. You are bothered by my comments i can tell just the way you are bothered by comedy and words. A lot of words bother you. you label them abusive so you are protected.
Who is this “we”? *You* could beat little kids and women for all I know. Knowing where I live doesn’t change that. I could also be an art thief, steal old ladies purses, run ponzi schemes…but then again, so could you. All this is pointless to the focus of the conversation.
I label your words abusive because that’s simply the reality.
People who say “I’m offended” (about comedy or anything else) are simply telling the world I’m such a mental/emotional child that I can’t control my own emotions & think the world should do it for me.
Life is hard & mean, and no one has a right to not be offended. People need to grow up.
Actually Cort, I don’t think someone’s ability to be offended or not offended by something can in anyway speak for their mental/emotional health. There are certain people that are not mentally/emotionally mature that may be offended by things said. And there are certain people that use the “I’m too cool for political correctness” visage to hide behind so that they can make any unflittered comment that comes into their head so that they don’t actually have to have responsibility for what the say. Which could also be the sign of someone that is lacking in mental or emotional maturity. People… Read more »
A lot of people lose sight of the difference between “I’m offended” and “It’s offensive.” The first comment is legitimate.
Of what I saw, Seth MacFarlane was funny and executed his role very well. The reaction of the press and the resulting bandwagon of offended people afterwards was also pretty funny. Always amusing to see people get so wound up over nothing.
See, but the thing is, it’s nothing to YOU. YOU think it’s nothing. But who are you to decide what’s funny and what’s not and what’s offensive and what’s not?
Why is your opinion on it being nothing any more or less valid than the opinion of those people who were offended. You can’t call something “nothing” as a blanket statement.
I can’t say it was funny or nothing, but others can say that it was unfunny or offensive? How is that consistent? I think reasonable people generally take it for granted that when others make such assessments, it is typically with reference to their own frame of reference. In any case, how to reconcile objectivity, implied by us communicating assessments with each other at all, and the subjectivity inherent in our distinct identities and perceptions is a persistent problem of philosophy. I recommend Immanuel Kant’s ‘Critique of Judgment’ if you’re interested. Getting back to the subject, I can’t take these… Read more »
Eva, you broke the Internet. You wrote such a reasoned, rational article that no one’s even fighting or being mean in the comments.
Be quiet, Marissa.
Stop oppressing me with your inability to spell.
**but then runs away crying**
*Shouts at her as she runs*
“The dramatic fleeing while sobbing schtick is my thing! You’re going to hear from my lawyers!”
The Oscars is just so unbearably dull… I can’t watch it for my life….I just like looking at the dresses online….
It’s just Hollywood….is that a sacred cow you can’t make fun of?
(Kathy Griffin or Louis CK for next year…and maybe I will watch!)
This is the most eloquent and intelligent take on the whole Oscar fervor I have seen. You did an incredible job here and I agree with you 100%. Kudos.
Great blog. First off, I love Seth MacFarlane. His humor is often offensive, but I also find him hilarious. Yeah, I know that I’m supposed to be an enlightened male and understand how misogynistic I must be for laughing at his stuff, but the man nails my funny bone every damned time. Second, I think The Onion is brilliant most times. That offensive tweet was not one of those times. That was kind of like someone pulling down their pants in the living room and taking a dump on the carpet, then pointing at it and going, “Look, I’m funny.”… Read more »
Where do you get off calling Family Circus and Jay Leno comedy? I bet there’s a really bad porn out there called Family Circus. It is funny seeing Jay at the supermarket. Nobody bothers him. He’s always got a sweet ride though. I think comedy is supposed to startle or shock us into a different perspective. The best comics don’t have to be offensive, but in today’s culture they face a great challenge not to be if they want to attract attention. Remember from the Howard Stern movie? People who hated him spent more time listening than his fans. The… Read more »
Seth MacFarlane actually starred in Family Circus XXX. True fact.
Hahahaha.
I like offensive/blue/irreverent/edgy comedy when it punches “up” not down. I found most of what he did, save the Sock Puppet piece, passive aggressive and mean spirited and lazy. There are loads of ways to call out the sexism (boobs) or racism or all manner of things that Hollywood is all guilty of without punching down at actresses who wind up having to show boob in movies. The song could have been aimed quite differently, but still using the word boob, while calling out the dynamics that bring women into situations where they can win Oscars but still wind up… Read more »
This is an amazing comment. Nothing to add. Thank you.
Julie, do you ever watch Family Guy?
I feel too few people understand him. I’m not his #1 fan, but Family Guy is REALLY smart and takes the piss out of basically everything you possibly ever could take the piss out of.
It’s worth watching, if you haven’t ever seen it, the Family Guy retelling of the birth of baby Jesus. It’s pretty fucking amazing.
Yeah, that’s the thing. I like Family Guy. I think what he does works in that format. I don’t think what he did worked at the Oscars.
You know, I agree with this perspective, and I totally didn’t expect to. Well done, Eva!
Thanks!
As usual, Eva wins. I have a really hard time with offensive humor because I have an awful superpower of intensely feeling uncomfortable myself if someone I see/am with/ imagine is uncomfortable. This is why I am unable to watch Ben Stiller films. It’s kind of a bummer, but it’s my life. Other people have the right to do the same.
Also, Seth MacFarlane brought back Cosmos and is good friends with Ann Druyan so that means he has to be at least 1% not awful.
Like Peter Petrelli on HEROES?!
Um yes? I watched that show like twice. Was he Rory Gilmore’s bad kid bf?
Yes!
You know what’s interesting? My line is sort of…”Is it actually funny?” The cunt tweet wasn’t funny to me, so it doesn’t bug me if people go after it. And it wasn’t not funny because it was about a kiddo, it just…wasn’t funny. But “We saw your boobs?” I’m sorry, y’all can have my feminist card, I laughed. Kate Winslet herself, has made fun of how often she ends up naked in her movies. And I love her! I laughed at a lot of the offensive jokes last night. I laughed at the Jew jokes! I’m a Jew! I died… Read more »
You know what’s also interesting? I only know the cunt tweet through the outrage it generated. And I think that’s significant. If the people who had been upset with the joke had just decided to roll their eyes and go “That’s fucked up” and moved on, it would have faded away as quickly as most tweets do (from what I’ve read most have a max shelf life of two hours or so with occasional exceptions). Instead they decided to make a HUGE deal about it and its reach extended far beyond The Onion’s followers. Instead of protecting the girl from… Read more »
I don’t think the concern was that as few people as possible heard it. I think it’s important to talk about our criticisms of comedy. It’s more the absolute “that’s over THE line” that I wanted to address.
A lot of the commentary I saw was about how injurious the joke was to its subject, so I think the fact that this very commentary spread the reach of the joke and possibly inflamed the injury is kinda relevant.
And I know what your post was about, Eva. Don’t make me take my edits back. E|:)
Don’t forget The Streisand Effect!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
Yeah, I believe people have every right to be critical of anything that offends them, but just as how free speech has it consequences, so does criticism of said speech. Very often when outraged critics go after a target they have the unintended effect of turning what was once obscure and niche into a viable mainstream product. It’s just something else to consider–is it worth decrying something if one of the major results of your condemnation is that it becomes better known (and potentially more popular) than it was before you said anything?
Naomi Watts’ face at her mention in that song was AMAZING.
Have you never heard the phrase ‘cross the line twice’?
It was hilarious precisely because it was about a 9 year-old kid. They couldn’t have possibly meant it, because only a crazy person looks at a child and thinks, “what a ****”. It was laughably mean-spirited and over the top.
The most annoying thing in the world, to me, is people who think that it’s their job to police my sense of humor. Seriously, **** those people. With a rusty garden trowel.