This comment was from NickMostly on the post Patriarchy Shmatriarchy
I recall someone once making the argument that boys are rougher and girls are gentler and this was just nature. And then I read a study where researchers observed the way people handled newborns, being qualitatively more physical with infant boys and more cuddly with infant girls.
When the US invaded Iraq stories came back from soldiers about Iraqi men walking hand in hand through the streets. This was seen as aberrant by the US soldiers, and they told the Iraqis they should refrain from the practice.
Then there is the Canadian couple who chose to keep their child’s genitals secret for the first five years of their life. There was a great outcry when the story was publicized, with much hatred, including death threats, leveled at the couple.
There is much that we do that appears to come naturally. The fact is that we are largely incapable of determining what is natural and what is not, because our existence is steeped in gender roles from the moment of our birth. Literally from the day we are born, our genital configuration determines how we are treated which in turn normalizes the stereotypes with which we are raised. What appears to be natural to us may in fact not represent some innate characteristic but instead a social more we’ve observed and adopted as an unassailable truth.
Let us speak no more of what is “natural” because it only serves to divide us. Instead we should focus on identifying and reducing suffering in this world, whether it is the suffering of men or women, and whether or not that suffering is of our own creation. I believe we can strive for equality while also celebrating our differences, but only if we abandon this quest to see ourselves as the more oppressed and in so doing, demonize the other as our oppressor.
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photo: selesnick / flickr
“There is much that we do that appears to come naturally. The fact is that we are largely incapable of determining what is natural and what is not, because our existence is steeped in gender roles from the moment of our birth. Literally from the day we are born, our genital configuration determines how we are treated which in turn normalizes the stereotypes with which we are raised. What appears to be natural to us may in fact not represent some innate characteristic but instead a social more we’ve observed and adopted as an unassailable truth.” The converse could be… Read more »
“I believe we can strive for equality while also celebrating our differences, but only if we abandon this quest to see ourselves as the more oppressed and in so doing, demonize the other as our oppressor.” It is too late for this. The Oppression Olympics is enshrined as the primary instrument by which government decides which kinds of suffering are deserving of public support. This is one of the main reasons why MRAs are angry at “the other side”. They dispose of 600 academic University departments, 2000 institutions, 20,000 programs, and billions of dollars annually to promote and support their… Read more »
I promise not to take over the comments in this bit. I swear. But I couldn’t figure out from your comment whether you were in agreement with NickMostly or not.
I believe AZ is rebutting Nick’s last sentence which AZ quoted. Nick’s last comment seems to be calling for peace between MRA’s and feminists by both sides stop acting like men or women have it worse. But, what are we supposed to do when clearly men or clearly women suffer more from one problem? Not advocate for fixes because we will be seen to be playing the blame game? However, the last sentence is overly simplistic. To my mind (and to AZ’s too apparently), what Nick is doing is reducing MRA’s LEGITIMATE complaints about the radical feminist core which perpetually… Read more »
Exactly right AZ. When we look at where society most successfully oppresses with the harshest results (loss of life and limb) men are by far the more oppressed. Men dominate many of the metrics which show black oppression and disenfranchisement over women on a 9 to 1 scale or more: destitute homelessness (i.e. not having access to emergency shelter), suicide, incarceration, victims of violence, parental rights, education, health, mental health, bodily integrity. The list goes on and on. In counter point to this, the help we provide to women (even when men are vastly more the victims of various issues)… Read more »
“Men dominate many of the metrics which show black oppression and disenfranchisement over women on a 9 to 1 scale or more” (quoting myself, lol how sad)
I wonder if nickmostly thinks that when blacks use the same metrics that show male disposability to make their case for aid if they are also playing the blame game. lol