Many people feel strongly that father-daughter “dates” are an important tool for teaching girls how they should expect to be treated by the opposite sex, but does the same rationale apply for mothers and sons?
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This isn’t a popular opinion, but I’m not a fan of the term “daddy-daughter date.” And I know that’s not a popular opinion because I’ve written about my dislike of the term in the past and it’s always attracted a lot of negative feedback. People feel like I’m arguing semantics, people feel like I’m making something sound romantic that was never supposed to be, people feel like I’m criticizing fathers for wanted to spend time with their daughters, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Dads spending time with their daughters is a vitally important act—hanging out with my daughter is literally my favorite thing in the whole wide world. That said, when people defend the notion of “daddy-daughter dates,” in my experience, their counter-arguments generally fall into one of two categories:
1. It’s just a term for spending time together. Don’t make it into something it’s not.
2. I take her on dates to show her how she should be treated by the men in her life.
And, let’s say, for sake of argument, that both of those statements are true. If that’s the case, then why don’t moms typically “date” their sons? Why do these “dates” seem to be a strictly father-daughter phenomenon?
In regards to category #1—“It’s just a term”—I have occasionally heard of moms saying that they have a “date” with their sons. I don’t think it’s as common, but it does happen, although most “mom-son” dates I’ve encountered revolve around something fairly innocuous, like going to the Lego Store together or going to see a movie. While I know some fathers and daughters who have similarly average outings, I’ve also seen many, many “daddy-daughter dates” that involve the dad and daughter dressing up in their best and actually going on a “faux-date”—he brings her flowers, tells her she’s beautiful, they go out to a fancy dinner, maybe dancing. In fact, they have whole “daddy-daughter dances” that are structured in the exact same format as high school dances.
And, maybe it’s just me, but I’ve never encountered moms and sons “spending time together” in the same way. I don’t know of any moms who get dressed up, bring their sons a boutonnière, and head out for a fancy night on the town. One can argue that girls might be more inclined to enjoy this “fancy dress-up” more than boys might—although that’s a pretty big generalization—but, regardless, I think it’s pretty obvious that there are some pretty big differences, both in terms of perception and execution, when it comes to daddy-daughter dates and mommy-son dates. (One of those differences is that no one ever uses the term “mommy-son date.”) It seems like mother-son time together revolves around hanging out, while people often feel the need to structure father-daughter time around the format and iconography of actual dating.
Now, let me cut you off here, I am NOT saying that there is anything ROMANTIC about father-daughter dates. I am 100% NOT saying that. There simply isn’t anything romantic about them. HOWEVER, daddy-daughter dates DO often ape their structure from the kinds of dates that boys and girls might go on in high school, like a Homecoming date, or a fancy-dress night on the town with one’s spouse. And mother-son “dates” don’t generally use the same structure. And I’m curious why.
This leads into category #2 in defense of father-daughter dates—“I take her on dates to show her how she should be treated by the men in her life.” Again, I am not here to argue whether that is a valid or invalid point, but I will note that I can’t think of any time when those roles are traditionally flipped and mothers do something similar with their sons.
Can you think of a time when a mom takes her son out, they get dressed up, and she’s trying to show her son how his future girlfriends should treat him later in life? I can’t. What would that look like? Dad-daughter date advocates often say things like “I open doors, I tell her she’s special, I bring flowers” to demonstrate how they’re using the date structure to show their daughters how they should expect to be treated by other men. And it IS a romantic date structure because men don’t usually bring flowers or go dancing when they’re trying to express their respect for their aunts, female work friends, or sisters.
So… placed in the same situations, what are moms supposed to do with their sons? What would a mother-son “date” look like? Do they have to adhere to social clichés? Do the moms need to let their sons open doors or pay for the meal? Are the moms supposed to listen intently, laugh at his jokes, and tell him that’s he’s handsome? (How far should we push the clichés? Should the mom just order salad?)
There’s this thing in our society where it’s socially acceptable for fathers to be held up as the “ideal men” for their daughters, but mothers aren’t supposed to be the “perfect women” for their sons. If a boy ends up with a woman who’s “just like his mother,” that’s generally perceived to be a bad or a weak thing.
Should more moms be role-playing like this? If we have fathers taking their daughters on admittedly innocent “dates” to teach them about how men should respect them, should mothers be doing the exact same thing? Should mothers be using dates with their sons to prepare them for their future relationships?
Personally, I feel like the answer is “No,” but that’s just my opinion.
There’s this thing in our society where it’s socially acceptable for fathers to be held up as the “ideal men” for their daughters, but mothers aren’t supposed to be the “perfect women” for their sons.
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I think parents spending time with their kids and showing their children respect is unfathomably important. But I’ve always been confused about why dads and daughters structure that time around “dates”—roleplaying lessons in opposite-gender respect—while the same expectation apparently doesn’t exist between mothers and sons. AND, this is important to note, this all assumes that the family is a heterosexual, 1950s nuclear family. What if the family has one son and two gay dads? Or one daughter and two lesbian moms? If there’s no dad, should the moms be taking the daughter out and showing her how to be respected at a fancy dinner and a formal dance? If there’s no mom, should the dads be doing the same thing with their son?
Again, this has nothing to do with romance or sexuality. But, for some reason, we have decided that father-daughter time should involve an element of roleplay—roleplay that’s undeniably based on the tropes of modern dating—and mother-son time should not. And I think that’s odd.
I do think that I’d be more accepting of the daddy-daughter date roleplaying if society placed just as much value on mothers and sons doing exactly the same thing. But it doesn’t. And I find that disparity both troubling and telling. (Don’t even get me started on the “Purity Balls” where daughters “pledge” their virginity and “purity” to their fathers. Can anyone show me ANY example of an institution where sons pledge their “purity” to their mothers? If it exists, I’d love to see it.)
Ultimately, there are many, many ways to impart respect and love to your children. I have a powerful paternal love for my daughter, but, if she ever needs instruction on how she should be treated by a loved one in the future, I’m confident that all she’d need to do is see how I treat my wife or how our friends and family treat their significant others and those lessons would become apparent.
My question stands—should mothers be “dating” their sons? Should we have mother-son dances in the same way that we have daddy-daughter dances? And, if not, why? I’d love to hear your input because I have yet to hear an explanation that truly makes sense to me.
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I think it’s messed up to call an outing with your child a “date”. Can’t you spend time with your child without having to “date” them. Everyone on the face of the planet equates a “date” with something “romantic”. So that is my real problem with this whole thing. Not that fathers and daughters and moms and sons are spending time together. As a parent, you should have more then one way to teach your children how they should treat and be treated by the gender that is their romantic interest. You shouldn’t have to “date” them, to convey this… Read more »
The author makes sure we understand that his opposition is solely due to the unequal participation of mothers and sons in parent-child dating. Well, boys and girls are different, a fact of life that, I’m sure, Mr. Burns knows. It’s OK if they have different experiences. The moral equality of the genders must not be denied. But should every difference necessarily be treated as unacceptable in the pursuit of gender equality? How about embracing some of our differences instead?
Father with daughter mother with son. As long as you don’t shoot your semen in them it’s fine.
I once read an article that resonated with me. The mom spent a day each month with her children one-on-one. For sake of ease, she correlated it roughly with their birth day – so, with my son being born last April 1, I would spend time with him roughly around the 1st of each month doing something special. (He’s my first, and current only, but if I have more kids I’d implement the same concept regardless of the child’s sex.) Now, for many of these “dates” we will be doing something simple and non-datey, like going to Build-A-Bear or whatever.… Read more »
How about if we keep it simple. YES father/daughter and mother/ son dates should happen. They should be as elaborate or as simple as the family or attendees decide. Who are we( you) to decide otherwise.
Funny this article was on yahoo this morning. Me and my 8yr old son went on a “date” yesterday. His father is not in his life very much and it is my job to teach him all the things he knows that will shape him into a man. I wouldn’t send my daughter out into the world without the things a mother should teach them neither would I send my son out without all the tools he needs. He holds my door open for me. He orders for me, he says the blessing. It is fun for us and he… Read more »
I completely agree with your views in this article. Another pet peeve I have is when single moms call their sons “little man” because they’re “the man” of the house. No!!! My son is a child, and while at 12 years old he is a huge help to me, his job is to be a kid, not to fulfill the role of man of the house. Thanks for your wise words, hopefully your thoughts will catch on and change some things.
Adding to what the others have said– I think the problem lies in sexism, and/or traditional gender roles (not necessarily both). It’s not just the expectation that men initiate dates, expressions of intimacy, and so forth– the most recent tradition was that a man ask the permission of the father of the woman he wished to marry. Could “daddy-daughter” dates possibly be reinforcing this expectation? I think it might. Along with “just like his mother”, society still generally frowns on the man that appears to be too attached to his mother, e.g., “mama’s boy”. As it’s been said elsewhere on… Read more »
I think sometimes society assumes that men have the power in the relationship and forget that men/boys also deserve to be taught to look for signs of abuse in relationships. Some of my guy friends, one in particular, have endured awful psychological AND physical abuse from their female significant others without having any idea as to how to come to terms with what was happening and extract themselves from the situation. That being said I’m still not sure why anything more than thorough discussion is necessary…dating scenarios just seem very odd to me and they surely, as you have so… Read more »
Why don’t moms go on dates with their sons? Well typically it is because the man is the one who has the least amount of contact with the kids. Especially now with men getting discriminated against in custody cases, you have mothers who raise the children, and the kids hardly ever see their father. How many stay-at-home-dads do you know of? Societal stereotypes assure that men are the ones who have the least contact with their kids. Find me a child who spends MORE time with the father than the mother in a marriage where there is no divorce. Mothers… Read more »
Just to clarify – I never, ever said anything negative about fathers spending time with their kids. Not once. Or anything about moms or dads needing to spend more time with their kids.
What I am asking is – WHY do those father-daughter dates mimic the structure of romantic dates and WHY doesn’t mother-son interaction adopt the same structure? Why is father-daughter time so formal and based around roleplaying dates and why is mother-son time so different? That’s what I’m interested in.
But I’ve given you one reason. Time. When you have a short amount of time, you need to structure it. Mothers have all the time in the world, so they don’t NEED to do the ‘date’ thing. When you have full custody all the time, why is it necessary? At all? However, let’s pretend we don’t live in a world where the female privilege of child custody discrimination against men isn’t rampant. Let’s pretend for a moment that both parents have equal time with their children. While this is a complete and total fantasy, I’ll indulge you and provide the… Read more »
Alright, I’ll bite. For starters, this has been a fairly unknown concept to me until recently. I didn’t know it was a thing, but having a 9-month old daughter, I guess more knowledge is better than less. In a world of increased single-parent households, I do think there could be some value in using these exercises as a way to teach manners, etiquette, and chivalry that have all but nearly died in today’s society. I’d *like* my daughter to, as she grows into a young woman, equate the quality of a man with his care for her — from little… Read more »
My gut reaction: Even in this day and age, it’s men who are expected to initiate, plan and take the lead on dates. The father-daughter date fits the archetype with the father assuming the role of leader/teacher as both the parent and the man. His roles align.
The mother-son date doesn’t work, because the mother has to be the leader/teacher, as the parent, but also the follower as the woman. Her roles are opposed. That’s why you’ll hear plenty about mothers going out to do things with their sons, but rarely on the model of a romantic date.
Insightful comment and to the point! Heterosexism is also at play here. If these “dates” were so innocuous with no romantic connotations, I don’t see why fathers don’t also take out their sons out on father-son dates. After all, they should equally love and want to spend time with their sons as much as they do their daughters. If you suggest a father-son date, most of the fiercest advocates of father-daughter dates who vehemently deny that there is anything more than an innocent parent-child bonding would give you a double take. That’s why I agree with the author when he… Read more »
That is exactly what I was thinking! I don’t even know what else to add because I think it’s so on point.
I still go out with my oldest son and he gets to choose the activity. As he is getting ready for college, I feel these activities are important for our relationship. When he was little, it was our special time to connect. As he gets older, it’s his time to share his thoughts with me in a safe space and we can talk. I learn so much from him during these times as he learns from me. I gain a better understanding of what he needs from me and how I can best support him.
So what about LGBT parents? Or what if your child might be gay? Can gay dads take their sons to dances? Can lesbian moms take their daughters? Or if we’re going to go the whole “mimicking society” route, do we just all pretend to be hetero until proven otherwise?
If my son might be gay, shouldn’t I teach him how to dance with a man and be treated nicely by one on a date? I’ll bet that would creep out a lot of the father/daughter dance supporters.
“My question stands—should mothers be “dating” their sons? Should we have mother-son dances in the same way that we have daddy-daughter dances? And, if not, why? I’d love to hear your input because I have yet to hear an explanation that truly makes sense to me.” Great question. Short answer: Absolutely. Our son’s formative years included regular one-on-one outings with mom. Gave him a chance to learn from her how to treat a woman with respect. And it also gave her a chance to show him how he ought to be treated by the women in his life – with… Read more »
Wow, you are really being picky about this. The best example I can think of is my best friend and his family. He and his wife have a son and daughter, and they both go out on “dates” with their kids. Not in a creepy way, like you seem to suggest, but in a way that establishes the mom/son father/daughter are spending time exclusively. I doubt this will help them weather breakups. I would think being a good parent that has good communications with the child would be better. Saying the “dates” help them with romantic relationships is just plain… Read more »