When it comes to parenting, Al Watts is sick of being seen as the second string.
This was previously published on Role/Reboot.
The other day our 4th grader was home sick from school. She was just getting over her fever and had to stay home one more day, because you need to be fever-free for 24 hours before you can go back to school. (I think that kids wanting to play more games on their ipods must have made up this rule).
As usual, I sent her teacher an email to let her know our daughter was still home sick. She evidently did not get that message to the school office, because at about 10 a.m., the phone rang.
Our daughter answered the phone. The secretary from the school, who has known me for five years and knows well that I am an at-home dad, said, “Hi, Anna, is your mom there?”
In today’s society, it is still more common for mom to be the at-home parent or the parent who takes off of work to be home with a sick child. However, this is not exclusively the case anymore. As I mentioned in my piece in December, the census recently reported that 32% of married fathers are the primary caregivers of their children. Which means that asking to talk to mom about a sick child during the day would be wrong about one-third of the time.
What was even more interesting about this situation was that this secretary knew me well. She knew that I am an at-home dad and has seen me at school with our kids hundreds of times. I think she may have met my wife once in the five years our children have attended the school, and I’m sure she would not recognize her if they ran into each other at the grocery store. (She would, however, recognize me.)
And yet, when she called to inquire about our sick daughter, the school’s secretary asked to talk to my wife. “No, my mom’s not here,” our daughter replied, “Do you want to talk to my dad?” I got on the phone and explained that, yes, our daughter was home sick again that day but should be in school tomorrow.
When I hung up, I shook my head in disbelief.
Despite the strides dads have been making over the last 10 or 20 years in taking on more childcare responsibilities, we are still invisible parents. People continue to assume that mom is the primary parent—even when they know dad is at home every day with the kids.
Moms are obviously extremely important parents, and perhaps, overall, more nurturing than dads. I’ll even concede that moms will probably continue to be the primary caregivers in the majority of households.
However, it is clear from recent research and from my own personal experience that dads are equally important and, increasingly, willing to take on a larger role with daily childcare duties.
And this is a wonderful thing for our society.
First of all, research by Dr. Kyle Pruett, a child psychiatrist at Yale University, has found that the presence of actively involved fathers can reduce teen pregnancy and drug and alcohol abuse. Second, fathers who expand into taking on more childcare responsibilities provide moms with more opportunities to advance their careers. In our household, for example, if I didn’t stay home, it would have been nearly impossible for my wife to take promotions requiring extensive travel, which has allowed her to climb the corporate ladder much faster than most of her colleagues.
It is time for all of us to get past this notion that parenting is primarily a woman’s role. Parenting can be done as effectively by men as by women. Parenting is, and can be, gender neutral.
Assuming that mom is the primary caregiving parent is not only inaccurate much of the time, but it also keeps men from feeling comfortable asserting themselves in a more active parenting role. Many fathers today want to be more involved with their children, but are made to feel that this is wrong when others are frequently looking to their wives for information about their children. These men feel like they are supposed to be the “back-up parent,” as George Clooney describes his character in the Golden-Globe-winning film The Descendants.
Dads aren’t—and shouldn’t be made to feel like—“back-up parents.” They are equal partners to moms in parenting. I want to live in a world in which dads can be comfortable in the benefits and sacrifices of raising children because parenting truly is, in our rapidly evolving society, gender neutral.
Al Watts is a nine-year veteran at-home dad to four children ages 9, 7, 4, and 3 in Omaha, Nebraska. He is the President of Daddyshome, Inc – The National At-Home Dad Network, writes a weekly blog on a popular mom’s website, Momaha.com, and monthly at Role/Reboot.
—Photo mollypop/Flickr
The only people helped by single custody are lawyers. ht tp://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2012/03/12/help-pass-mn-shared-parenting-bill-now/ Shared parenting looks about to pass in Minnesota. Who opposes it? AAML: American Assn of Matrimonial Lawyers. They know that shared parenting reduces conflict and creates a less contentious, less embittered winner-takes-all environment. Less contention, means less motions, means less lawyer fees. It is demonstrably proven that single custody is bad for dads, VERY bad for children, and only helps put lawyers kids through college. Women need to stop thinking fathers parental rights should be in their hands to decide. Luckily, there are a lot of truly progressive forward… Read more »
John D., again, it’s best for children to have both parents deeply involved in parenting, but most dads are not doing it, although they might think picking up a kid at soccer is huge parenting. Sorry. To help change this, at a young age boys need to be brought into learning activities involving expression, creativity, feelings and caring for others. Young boys’ best window for this type of learning is birth-9 yrs (academically 6-9) when parents and schools are forcing boys to try to read and sit still, something the brains of many young boys simply aren’t ready for. They’ll… Read more »
Typo – last sentence should read: “I really don’t know why so many men bail on their families while they’re still living in the home.”
John D, what I see is this: 1) A young couple has a baby and both get involved in the care, but mom more because she stays at home while dad pursues career. Everybody happy. But as the family grows, instead of increasing his share of the work with additional children, dad does less child-raising and fewer traditional male jobs. Not only does he not make dinner or clean up, he misses dinner, homework, games, bath time and story time. Mom mows lawn and works on house on weekend, dad watches TV or goes golfing or has an affair. Mom… Read more »
Katie: Your example is VERY stereotypical and not based on the reality of what is occuring in U.S. households at all. According to the Dept of Labors time use survey when all work in & out of the home and commuting are tallied men work a statistically meaningless 1/2 hour less per week than women. Also, from the studies I have seen women have affairs just as often as men. Secondly, I don’t know why you bring cheating into it because all of the studies I have seen show women cheat just as much as men. According to the national… Read more »
I don’t think you understood my comment. What I see in suburban towns is fathers stopping interacting with their children after toddlerhood and exhausted moms doing too much work with no R&R while dad watches tv or goes out for drinks after work instead of having dinner with the family and putting kids to bed and helping with chores. Overwhelming, this is why mothers say they’re getting divorced. These are the same “we’re pregnant!” parents of 10 years before. In a case like this, do you think the father, who is not involved with his children’s life, should get joint… Read more »
Wrong. Ridiculous man-blaming stereotype. And illogical because single parenting isore difficult still. Divorce is never 100% one person’s fault and not always the man’s fault. But it IS that mentality that leads to divorce.
Fixing iPhone autocorrect typo.
“And illogical because single parenting is more difficult still.”
Eric, this isn’t stereotyping or “studies.” These are friends I know well, neighbors, acquaintances from kids’ activities over the years, colleagues, good people, nice homes. I know both parties. Dads themselves say, “My wife does it all” and they’re okay with that. Mom is not okay with that, jumps through hoops trying to get dad involved and finally gives up. The dads I know who do participate in household chores and child care (which involves a lot of cleaning up, getting ready, shopping, organizing and driving around – not fun stuff) seem to stay married. Single parenting is hard, but… Read more »
II’ve never heard of anything like that. Is there something in the water? If ALL or the majority of your “friends” are in this situation, I would strongly recommend finding a better circle of friends because that’s not representative of the real world – which is far from perfect but it ain’t that dysfunctional. That sounds like the “bitter, virtually impossible to love women’s club.” Those men do probably want to spend time with their children but probaly can’t stand being in proximity of such bitter hateful women. Thankfully, what you describe is foreign in my social circle. Most husbands… Read more »
Eric, I’m discussing a wide range of people I’ve known in middle/upper middle class communities who are divorced, they’re not a circle of friends and they are not bitter, hateful people – the men or the women. If MRA types constantly pull out this dogma when they circle the little red wagons, they will never have better relations with women, which seem extremely poor. These women don’t leave their husbands because they don’t love them, they leave because they’re exhausted, because their husbands don’t understand how much work child raising and home keeping is or care that their wives are… Read more »
Some people, many people do remain happily married. I have been happily married for 20+ years with two beautiful girls, as have hundreds of my personal and work associates. Perhaps it would be better to not surround yourself with bitter divorced women. “If MRA types constantly pull out this dogma when they circle the little red wagons, they will never have better relations with women, which seem extremely poor.” Sorry pal, such misandry doesn’t work on me. I’m not an MRA or associated with the movement in any shape, form, or fashion, but I WILL call out bitter man-hating views,… Read more »
Eric, you carry this “hate and bitterness” and smear it on people you don’t even know. I left my husband, he didn’t leave me, and he repeatedly has tried to re-start the relationship. I’m in a happy relationship with another man, work with many wonderful men and count many men from different walks of life with different political views among my friends. I’ve never been a part of any “feminist” group. Sorry this doesn’t fit into your little red wagon. Your intolerance, self-righteousness, nasty talk and lack of imagination are exactly why most men don’t make very good primary caretakers… Read more »
” Eric, you carry this “hate and bitterness” and smear it on people you don’t even know.” As I said, I know nothing about you. My comments were based on the hateful and bitter views expressed. ” I’ve never been a part of any “feminist” group.” Never said you were, just that anti-male views expressed would fit right in and be welcome. “Your intolerance, self-righteousness, nasty talk and lack of imagination are exactly why most men don’t make very good primary caretakers of children. . .” I am not the one who has continued to insult and demean an entire… Read more »
Agreed Eric.
What is more likely: That everybody in Katie’s neighborhood is such a drastic far flung exception to the national average of families that overwhelmingly have good dad, or that she looks for evidence to bolster her lopsided views of men and fathers and dismisses or doesn’t even see the evidence that denounces her lopsided views of fathers and men.
People who have such dim and dismissive views of the opposite sex most likely won’t have healthy relationships with the opposite sex for long, unless they are able to grow as a person.
Katie writes: “The dads I know who do participate in household chores and child care (which involves a lot of cleaning up, getting ready, shopping, organizing and driving around – not fun stuff) seem to stay married.” In other words, regardless of who initiates divorce is always the mans fault. Wow, that’s wow. Katie: men do not have a monopoly on selfishness or childishness. You never stopped to think that there are immature and selfish women who divorce because she is bored and that the divorce is her fault whatever they say? I’m sorry. I’m not going to use your… Read more »
Katie writes: “I don’t think you understood my comment. What I see in suburban towns is fathers stopping interacting with their children after toddlerhood and exhausted moms doing too much work with no R&R while dad watches tv or goes out for drinks after work instead of having dinner with the family and putting kids to bed and helping with chores.” And you support loving fit dads being denied parental interaction for a handful of personal observations? Believe it or not just as many women can be bad parents as dads. According to the 2006 child maltreatment study mothers commit… Read more »
John D, of course I’m basing my opinions on my personal experiences. If men haven’t been actively involved in raising their children before the divorce, after the divorce is a really bad place to begin. For him, he’s starting at go, but for the children, they’ve already been brought up with certain habits and structure, which makes it easier for them to focus on other childhood challenges like school and friends and hobbies and sports. If at age 12 the child suddenly has to deal with daddy’s way of loading the dishwasher, daddy’s rules for homework, daddy’s hygene habits, etc.… Read more »
Again you try to paint fathers who do more of the paid work and less of the hands-on caring as absentee dads. Do you really think that the trauma of: “has to deal with daddy’s way of loading the dishwasher, daddy’s rules for homework, daddy’s hygene habits” stacks up in any way to the huge behavioral problems children have when they essentially have a father(or mother when they lose custody do to lack of due process against a rich father) STOLEN in divorce (typically do to vengeful, childish, or selfish mothers)? If you truly believe that your romanticizing mothers role… Read more »
Katie says: “What I see in suburban towns is fathers stopping interacting with their children after toddlerhood and exhausted moms doing too much work with no R&R while dad watches tv or goes out for drinks after work instead of having dinner with the family and putting kids to bed and helping with chores.” Katie, please look at this study: ht tp://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/05/us-work-couples-productivity-idUSTRE6744A620100805 This study blows apart the stereotype that mothers do more work. Your examples of dads shirking their duty may seem common for you, but they are in fact not the reality for most families. Katie, What you are… Read more »
John D., if a mother has mostly been raising the children – dealing with school, doctors, extra-curriculars, doctors, friends, etc., it makes sense that she should continue managing that after the divorce. The father will have Wednesday visitations, every-other weekend, nightly phone calls, attend games, activities, performances, consult with doctors and teachers, etc. and can arrange with mom to help out with the driving (this is what mom does most of the time – it’s not quality time.) Although this might not be the case for everyone, every other entire weekend and Wednesdays was much more time than my husband… Read more »
Katie writes: “Yes, I wish I married a different guy. I know they’re out there, but no one really knows what kind of parent they’ll be until they have a child.” And here we come to the crux of the problem. You support loving fit dads being kept away from their kids by vengeful mothers and the biased family court system as payback against men like your husband. So, it really isn’t about the kids is it Katie? It’s about payback. But, by supporting bigoted biased court systems you aren’t hurting the type of men your ex was. Those men… Read more »
Katie writes: “Granted, it really, really hurts to wake up and not have your kids in your house. On the other hand, you don’t have to do their laundry, drag them out of bed, get them on the bus, clean their rooms, fix all the broken stuff and buy new stuff and give them time-outs when they fight with each other.” What are you saying? That dads being forcibly removed from their kids is GOOD FOR THE DADS? You know how insulting and bigoted that statement is? That the dads who WANT to “do their laundry, drag them out of… Read more »
John D., if a man is equally involved in the work of childcare, yes, joint custody is probably best. But that’s not my situation or the situation of a lot of other women. Ten years of not doing laundry, not making dinner, not playing with kids or doing homework or shuttling kids around in the most needy years of their life, or maintaining the home pretty much says this guy doesn’t want to be involved with raising the children. And yes, he said it himself, many times. He wasn’t brought up that way and he didn’t see it as his… Read more »
To state what is obvious to most parents: Raising children is about a lot more than changing diapers and wiping noses. Even a 12 year olds can be legally certified by the Red Cross to do such routine tasks. Nothing special is needed to complete such tasks. The much tougher parenting work comes as they hit their pre-teen and especially teenage years – where they need as much fathering as they do mothering. Fatherless or father-starved boys and girls end up with far more problems than those whose fathers have a full share in their upbringing, no matter how many… Read more »
Eric, agreed that that teenagers present some different challenges. It’s another reason for divorced parents to stay on the same page, maintain the same rules and support each other. At this age, it’s common for girls to turn to dads and boys to turn to moms and different parents may be in the dark on certain issues. It’s also common for teens to play divorced parents against each other (I’m staying at Dad’s/Mom’s), so they can stay out at night.
Once again. It’s not men like your ex that the system punishes by making sure fathers parental rights are doled out at mothers whims. It’s the good dads who have worked hard being real parents (whether that means outside the home or direct care) who WANT a relationship with their kids your mentality and the current court system born of similar biases hurts. Again, the facts (as born out in destruction of child well-being with father absence and poles that show dads do just as much work): Fact: mothers can and are just as selfish, cruel and bad parents as… Read more »
John, if a mother has been doing the child-raising and management it makes sense that she continues that in sole custody after divorce. However, the dad still gets every other weekend and Wednesdays and half the holidays and nightly phone calls and can confer with teachers and pediatricians and attend school events, sports activities etc, so I don’t understand why you’re saying fathers are shut out of their childrens’ lives.
John D, I agree that fathers are essential in child raising, but for what they are – fathers – not mothers. A father can’t drop out of a child and mother’s life for years to pursue a career, hobbies or other women and when the divorce rolls around say I should be in this child’s life 50% of the time because it’s my biological right and then impose whatever lifestyle he chooses on the child. Children need consistency and it you’re disrupting their lives 50% of the time, you’re disrupting it completely. I am 100% for keeping fathers involved in… Read more »
Katie: A) you’re backpedaling when you say fathers are essential to raising children. Previously, you seemed to be stating that fathers were superfluous to child development and QUITE CLEARLY state that fathers parenting style was inferior to mothers. Which is it, and why don’t you stand by your proof you said you had? Does this mean in the next forum you post on websight xyz you’ll again promote these same theories until you’re called out? B) you seem to have diametrically opposed views: You bemoan the fact that families are lacking more father involvement, then seem to insinuate that you… Read more »
John D, parenting is not gender-neutral and from what I see in your comment, we agree on this. Accordingly, men are not equipped to provide the day-to-day nurturing maternal care to meet the physical, social and emotional needs of a child.
What I see in joint custody or in the usually disastrous paternal custody, are over-extended men and women trying to play a role they are not equipped to play and short-changing the child.
Katie, The proof is in: the overwhelming GOOD that dads bring to the table far far *FAR* outweighs the items that are under-performed compared to mothers way of parenting. Your emphasis to prove that different = WORSE says way more about you, then about fathers. It’s a call back to traditionalist supremacy bs. The same point you are making about fathers (different=worse) was used 70 years ago to say women couldn’t be soldiers/cops/judges/pilots etc.. The overwhelming majority of evidence points to exactly that father’s *DIFFERENT* parenting makes them indispensable to child development. In other words, parenting laws and culture (in… Read more »
John, don’t let Katie get to you. She is not here to provide civil, thoughtful counterpoint that would lead to a constructive discussion. She baited you. Her comments were insulting, offensive and inflammatory. They are designed to provoke an emotional response rather than offer value to the community. In short, Katie is acting as an Internet troll. From Wikipedia: “In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise… Read more »
Thanks padre. I understand what you are saying. However, for those of us who pay attention it is becoming apparent that misandry is the culturally accepted hate. The kinds of things many people say about men would never be acceptable if they were instead directed at a racial group. The fact is all hate needs to be exposed. And that is whenever I say statements of misandry passed off as scientific or harmless the first thing I always do is reverse the genders. Katie’s statement that biology trumps legal rights is the same reasoning that women were held down, and… Read more »
2nd to last sentence should have been:
And that is why whenever I see statements of misandry passed off as scientific or harmless the first thing I always do is reverse the genders.
This is directed at KATIE: I decided to start a new thread rather than responding to any of the posts which are horribly nested with lots of replies and re-replies. Katie, I think you’re jumping to the same conclusions that bigoted male scientists did in the 50’s. They used jargon and “stats” and “studies” to show that since women did things different, that different meant POORLY and used as an excuse to be kept from becoming: firefighters, police officers, test pilots, judges. In total contradiction to your point, the studies I have seen show that fathers are JUST AS CRITICAL… Read more »
If you agree that this needs to change will you consider signing the petition of the Census?
http://www.change.org/petitions/dads-dont-babysit
Chad, weren’t you responsible for some scandal in the 2000 elections?
Women control the system associated with children. The matriarchy discriminates against fathers.
Bill, both boys and girls – we all are – negatively affected by lost windows of opportunity for development.
If men aren’t taught how to nurture as boys, they won’t be able to nurture the mother of their child in pregnancy and early childhood, and they won’t be able to nurture their child and tend to his inner and physical needs, particularly in times of tress.
What the. . . no one, neither boys nor girls must be taught to “nurture”, whatever the heck that means. None of this is complicated. Babies, children are small form factor humans, period. Before I had children I had never given a baby a bath but I gave them all their baths every night. I had barely changed any diapers but I changed hundreds or maybe thousands of them. Nobody taught me to hold my kids, kiss them, wake up every night to give them to their mom to nurse, to love them, be kind, gentle, caring. I learned that,… Read more »
Eagle34, you stand corrected – I said “many” men, not all men, and noted that men in some other cultures are more expressive than American men. Your items 1, 2 and 3 are legal/criminal adult issues and the study and my comments do not concern that. The kind of emotional expression I’m talking about is disappointment, hope or satisfaction over a job situation, pride in a minor hobby or talent, anger when you’ve been snubbed by a clerk or neighbor, joy at seeing an old friend, romantic thoughts about your spouse, frustration over limited finances, sharing insignificant and not-so insignificant… Read more »
Katie,
I take on face value the learning theory you are describing regarding windows of development opportunity regarding music, etc. Your claim, however, that men are less able to care for children because they miss particular opportunities for development will require more substantiation. Is this your own conjecture – extrapolation from the educational theory you studied – or is there a body of research knowledge that substantiates your claim that missed opportunities make men less able to parent? I would very much appreciate any journal articles, etc. that would validate this claim.
Katie: “Your items 1, 2 and 3 are legal/criminal adult issues and the study and my comments do not concern that.” That’s not the point, Katie. The point is I’m trying to explain to you that your claim that men can’t express their emotions really well due to your reasonings about biology or whatever isn’t the only case and showing you the other side: Mixed messages, ostracization, ridicule for daring to express their feelings, their TRUE feelings. Society engages in that while dumping on men for refusing to express their emotions, even assuming like you that they lack emotions. Hell,… Read more »
Thanks, Al, for this good piece. We need all the words we can get from men like yourself who know the importance of positive, involved fathering. I am quite appalled by some of the vituperation and scorn you received simply for affirming that men can provide equally good childcare as women, even though it will be different. I had the good fortune to be able to share childcare of my daughter and son with their mother back in the 70’s. I met a lot of puzzlement from others at the time, but never scorn. The response I most treasure came… Read more »
Katie, Regarding your statement, “Likewise, I don’t think men have it all and they’re bound to fail trying to replicate mothers.” I concede your point. It is futile for fathers to strive to be women. Male primary caregivers, however, are not trying to replicate mothers. Rather, they are full-time caregiving fathers who are male in approach but no less effective than women. Regarding your larger corpus callosum argument, this is an accessible oversimplification of the actual field of neurophysiology. It is popular in conservative circles but it wouldn’t pass muster in a room of neurophysiology PHD’s. Rather than refute it,… Read more »
That’s what I was getting at and what irked me about Katie’s biological arguments.
Men may not have the developed areas of the brain that women do, but they still are effective parents as moms are. Likewise for moms.
Which is why it irks me when mothers are put on this high pedestal over father, worshipped like demi-gods in the realm of parenting.
I would also like to add that men possess a wide range of emotions. They just show them differently compared to women. Doesn’t mean they lack them.
Men don’t show their emotions as much in our culture as they do in some other cultures. Keeping a poker face is an objective to many American men. Children need to see that range of emotions and how his parent deals with those emotions – it’s not enough that men “have” emotions when it comes to raising a child. By having emotions and not showing them, it’s like saying that emotions are weak and shameful, and that discourages a child from expressing himself/herself, which hinders a child’s complete development.
Al and Eagle34, of course the explanation of brain science was simplified – I’m writing a comment in a thread. However, that information is accurate. I studied it with a professor actively involved in the research as part of core curriculum for my post-graduate education degree. Scientists scan brains to determine which parts of the brain are functioning during different activities and it’s different for men and women. Growing up, hormones affect girls and boys’ brains at different times in different ways. Brain development is inextricably tied into learning and learning affects brain development. In other cultures, men and women… Read more »
Katie: “Men don’t show their emotions as much in our culture as they do in some other cultures. Keeping a poker face is an objective to many American men.” Not all american men do that, Katie. You’re basically erasing those men by saying this. Katie: “it’s not enough that men “have” emotions when it comes to raising a child. By having emotions and not showing them, it’s like saying that emotions are weak and shameful, and that discourages a child from expressing himself/herself, which hinders a child’s complete development.” Um, Katie, that’s some pretty far out claims you’re making here.… Read more »
Katie: “This is the boys’ window of opportunity for the kind of learning that will help develop their brains to empathize, accept their own feelings and be able to nurture children better when they become dads.”
How do you know they don’t emphathize? How do you know they’re not accepting their own feelings? How do you know they aren’t nurturers as moms are?
Again, you’re making pretty dubious claims here.
A 20 year-old might decide he wants to be a good musician, but unless his brain has learned the discipline, thinking and techniques of how to play at a young age, this won’t happen no matter how hard he tries or how much he wants to be a good musician. youve overstated here. i realise that in comment threads we can only speak in generalities however what would more likely happen is that the 20yo would learn to play the instrument at a slower rate than if they had learnt when younger. The 20yo could still become fully proficient, in… Read more »
Katie,
For all your talk about the male brain versus the female brain, you have glossed over the fact that this woman, for all of her ability to grasp the big picture, still can’t get past her bias (or prejudice, if you will) that the mothers is the default parent.
She could easily have asked, “is your parent available”?
Problem solved!
-Jut
From this grandfather in Costa Rica in Costa Rica this thread sounds like low-trust gender bickering. I commend to your attention looking at other cultures that don’t chew on this particular cultural meme.
See http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/02/santorums-conservatism
In the culture I live in people don’t have this gender bickering cultural meme
The point isn’t more shaming but to see some possibility that isn’t more of the same resentment filled & patronizing/matronizing stand- taking.
Parenting will never be seen as sex-neutral because human beings are not sex-neutral. Sex matters, in a lot of ways.
The question we should be asking is when our feminized culture will stop denigrating the role of fathers by insulting them and acting like they’re incompetent oafs and babysitters.
God, I can’t believe these comments. Seriously, the author here was writing about a very valid complaint where Dads are being called “Babysitters” instead of “Parents”, and I don’t give a damn what you think that’s still an issue if you guys read that article about the Census Bereu and their “Babysitter” labels for Dads. Yet, here I see people telling him to get over it then atttacking him for being hostile to a secretary. Perfect example of just how much ignorance there is out there to fathers who try to speak up on something. I’ll bet if a mother… Read more »
One thing that is missed here is that, since the economic crash of 2008/2009, a very large number of fathers who formerly worked full time became long term unemployed men, and ended up being at home with their children – because women today find it easier to get and keep jobs. Hence, if you view the data, you will see that women have lower unemployment rates. If mom is working and dad is at home with the kids against his wishes, not because he has chosen to be a stay at home dad, he very likely doesn’t consider himself a… Read more »
+PLUS infinity
I’m a father of 2 grown daughters and the grandfather of one daughter.
The mother of my kids and me were co-parents.
There is no worthwhile value called gender neutral parenting.
Dads and Moms are different. Get over it.
I’m not interested in neutering dads nor dis – honoring moms.
Gender jealousy and resentment doesn’t help either.
Kids have an absolute claim to great parenting from either or both genders
Give up your 1 gender stinginess please
Women are still paid, on average, less than men. The English language (or at least the way most of us use it) is sexist. Despite equality, women still dominate jobs such as nursing, child care, esthetics, etc. Men are more dominant in engineering and trades (as mentioned in a recent article). There’s racism, ageism, and sexism all over the world. Some women can’t vote in certain countries. In some countries homosexuality is a crime. This is an article about someone getting upset because a woman still has preconceived notions of what a typical family is. You can’t change some peoples… Read more »
She asked for mom. The little girl gave dad the phone. I don’t see the issue. Far more moms stay home than dads, and that will change when men can breastfeed and when there is no mental, emotional, and hormonal difference between men and women, no matter how much social engineering and laws to force gender neutrality you do – see Scandinavian countries.
When my parents had two daughters my father decided that we were “more mom’s kids”, because we were girls. I wish every day that he had understood that he was equally important as a parent. I was so disappointed with him, it took me years of my adult life to build up something that even resembles a relationship with him.
Author: “It is time for all of us to get past this notion that parenting is primarily a woman’s role. Parenting can be done as effectively by men as by women. Parenting is, and can be, gender neutral.” It’s great you feel this way and are letting everyone know from high up. However, you hurt your cause when you say this: “Moms are obviously extremely important parents, and perhaps, overall, more nurturing than dads. I’ll even concede that moms will probably continue to be the primary caregivers in the majority of households.” No, moms are not “extremely” important parents. Important… Read more »
One part of me wants to tell the dad not to worry about ignorant people’s perceptions since he’s doing a great job as a parent. The other wants to tell traditionalist knuckledraggers like the school secretary to wake the hell up because it’s not 1957 anymore and that gender roles, no matter how hard she tries to cling to antiquated bullshit, are changing.
That’s a serious and harsh over-reaction. She asked for his daughter’s mom and not you, and that makes her “knuckledragger.” Think. This is a school secretary. How many hundreds of calls to parents does she make during a shool year? Probably thousands. Is it not within the realm of possibility that she accidentally asked for them mom, since most stay at home parents happen to be the mom? My kids’ school sometimes call me and sometimes call their mom. As long as they ask for either of us, what difference does it make? If the other is the right person… Read more »
There should have been a “?” after my first sentence, to read:
“She asked for his daughter’s mom and not you, and that makes her “knuckledragger?”
This is on par with Elaine from Seinfeld getting mad at her boyfriend for not putting an exclamation mark on a note saying her friend had a baby.
Women deal with this kind of stuff all the time but the majority of them don’t complain. Is this really worth writing about?
“Women deal with this kind of stuff all the time but the majority of them don’t complain.”
How often are women considered the back-up parent? I actually don’t know any straight women who have to deal with being treated as if they weren’t the stay-at-home parent.
Ian: “This is on par with Elaine from Seinfeld getting mad at her boyfriend for not putting an exclamation mark on a note saying her friend had a baby.” Uh, right. So I take it you’re just telling him to suck it up and be a man? Ian: “Women deal with this kind of stuff all the time but the majority of them don’t complain. Is this really worth writing about?” You don’t know that many women, do you? Where have you been the past 40 or so years? Women have “Complained” and society made strides to address it. Yet… Read more »
Al, do you have any clue what the school secretary’s job is? For starters, it’s not about you. Are you not aware how many married, living-together, single, step, divorced, separated, and in-litigation parents the secretary as to deal with and how frequently all those dynamics change? And while she is following up on the absent/truant call list, she has a line of children at her desk with various requests and teachers and administrators stopping by with urgent requests and daily to-do assignments. If you were even a little involved with your child’s schooling you would have known this and not… Read more »
There is a good point here that most school secretaries are overworked and don’t know every single family’s personal dynamics. Ours often calls our child by his last name since his last name is a “first name” or could be used as such. Dads are parents and this is a thing that does happen. And it’s not a conspiracy on the secretaries part, just habit. Habits need to pointed out, that’s true, but she’s not a knuckledragger. Just a person.
You know Katie, you make a very good point. I do know, and appreciate, how challenging the secretary’s job is at our school. It is entirely possible that, in the midst of calling many parents, she asked for “mom” at our house out of instinct without thinking about exactly who she was calling. And that was exactly my point. When will she automatically ask to talk to mom OR dad? When will all of us stop assuming mom is the one home with the sick kid? Twenty, even ten years ago, very few dads were in the pick-up line at… Read more »
Al, dads have always attended school meetings, attended recitals and taken their kids to their sports games and playground. This is not new. It’s a very basic responsibility and doesn’t deserve acclaim, honors or even mention. If the secretary is going to have to start asking to speak with “mom OR dad,” she’s also going to have to start asking for step mom (not mom), step dad (not dad), grandma, uncle, foster mom and temporary guardian. But the secretary is calling about the child – she is not calling to affirm the egos of the adults involved in the child’s… Read more »
Katie,
The drawback of a re-posted article is that it was written for an audience familiar with the author, and this audience is not. Al might have given more biographical information upfront and shifted his tone if he were writing for this site. If you knew Al, you would be embarrassed that you wrote, “If you were even a little involved with your child’s schooling.”
Katie, You have gravely misjudged Al Watts. The internet is prone to quick dismissive ad hominem attacks. I encourage you to avoid them.
Bill, any article stands on its own merits and this article has no merit. No matter where it’s published, it’s pathetic.
As stated, the author clearly thinks the secretary is demeaning him and his gender, and puts his ego in front of the secretary’s job of determining whether his child (and many others) has a cold/has been injured/has a contagious disease/is truant/has been kidnapped.
Katie, You are one not to be deterred. We are going to disagree about the intent of Al’s article. For you it is about unfair criticism of a secretary, for the author it is the larger issue of mothers being treated as the designated parent. The secretary knows Al well and I believe would consider him a friend. You have been her stalwart defender, though, from the attack you perceive she is receiving. As the primary caregiver to my children, I appreciate Al’s interest in the fact that society at large assumes the mother is a designated parent. My wife… Read more »
Bill, “society at large assumes the mother is a designated parent” because around the world and in the United States, the mother – historically and continues to be – the designated caretaker of the majority of children. As a teacher in various communities, this is also my experience although there are infrequent exceptions. It is my experience and that of almost every teacher I know, that in joint custody and even in paternal custodial situations, the mother is still doing the majority of the real work of care-taking. There are a lot of good dads out there really involved in… Read more »
Katie: “It is my experience and that of almost every teacher I know, that in joint custody and even in paternal custodial situations, the mother is still doing the majority of the real work of care-taking. ” Things are changing, Katie. There are dads now getting, or are, fully involved in their kids lives regardless of whether or not the mother does the majority of real work. By the way, what is “Real Work” that mothers do which dads don’t do? I’d like to hear what constitutes the real work. Society has no right to ignore and minimise the dads… Read more »
Eagle 34, I have yet to meet a father or a mother who is “gender-neutral.”
“There are a lot of good dads out there really involved in their kids lives, but they don’t replace a mother’s role and relationship. Parenting is not gender-neutral.”
It appears you are saying that men could never be and are not presently functioning as the primary care-givers of their children with the same degree of effectiveness that women do? I had not anticipated I would encounter someone who held such a stance on “The Good Men Project” site.
Thank you for plainly stating your position. That will inform my understanding of any other positions you take.
Eagle34, to answer your question about the different type of work that mothers do, let me digress to brain function. Both men and women use both sides of the brain, but women use both sides of the brain much more than men do. The corpus callosum, the path that connects the left and right hemispheres, is broader and more heavily trafficked for the female, whereas men operate predominantly in certain regions on one side. Men are very good at calculating formulas and getting specific results from discrete elements and women are very good at simultaneously absorbing and managing a lot… Read more »
Bill, if someone surrounds themselves with “yes men” – whatever the situation – they’re not going to get an accurate representation of the real situation.
Katie: “As stated, the author clearly thinks the secretary is demeaning him and his gender, and puts his ego in front of the secretary’s job of determining whether his child (and many others) has a cold/has been injured/has a contagious disease/is truant/has been kidnapped.”
It’s funny because weren’t mothers also putting their “Ego” in front of others when they spoke out in the early years which lead to their getting the supports and rights they now enjoy? Or is “Ego” just a male thing, hence the harsh reaction you and others have dealt to the author here?
Eagle34, I agree with you that men are under-valued and I also think that fathers are poorly represented on TV as bumbling, lazy, lying morons. I also think mothers are poorly represented on TV as always right, always capable, super smart, professionally successful, adored by their children and “have it all” types. I don’t know these women.
When women started the equal rights movement they didn’t thoroughly think it through. Now they have to earn a living, pay for dinner before they sleep with a guy and they still raise the children.
Kaite: “Eagle34, I agree with you that men are under-valued and I also think that fathers are poorly represented on TV as bumbling, lazy, lying morons. I also think mothers are poorly represented on TV as always right, always capable, super smart, professionally successful, adored by their children and “have it all” types. I don’t know these women. ”
Precisely. So why add to it by attacking this father who has a legitmate beef?
You made personal attacks against him as well. Contradicts what you’re about, don’t you think?
In regards to the biological reasonings you invoke regarding parenting skills, that still doesn’t give society and you a right to dismiss and minimise what dads bring to the table.
If you’re about bemoaning how mother’s are poorly represented, you would think that’d you lay off the absolutes like mothers being better.
Or does biological arguments count if it’s too the advantage of women and mothers over men and fathers? For when someone applies the arguments you do, they’re dismissed as not being for women’s rights.
Eagle34, I think that both men and women are incomplete in different ways. That women see green and men see blue, but the real color isn’t turquoise, it’s more of a mosaic and the mosaic is as pretty as you let it be. That when I’m talking to a man and even if we agree, we’re not really thinking the same thing. If I’m in a discussion with a man who disagrees with me, I listen carefully – not just to be “tolerant” – but because I know that he sees it differently, knows something I don’t. I enjoy men.… Read more »
I’ll never forget not long after our first child was born, I was on the phone with my mum who could hear our daughter playing in the background. When she realised my wife was not home she asked me if I was babysitting.
I told her very pointedly that there were no other children here, just my daughter, and I’m her father, not her babysitter. She never made that mistake again.
E.