What if we have been normalizing male rape victims’ symptoms for centuries?
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Yesterday I read an article in which Chris Brown discussed the age at which he lost his virginity. He was 8, he says, and the girl was 14 or 15. He mentions that in “the country” he and his cousins watched a lot of porn, so by age 8 he was “hot to trot.” Maybe so. Children can have sexual feelings at 8, but whether they can consent to sex at age 8 is an entirely different subject. Sex at age 8 is rape, especially given the fact that the girl involved was significantly older, a teenager. Chris Brown was raped, but to hear him tell it, that experience was positive, healthy. Something to brag about. “At eight, being able to do it, it kind of preps you for the long run, so you can be a beast at it.”
And the worst part? This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this from a man.
I’ve personally dated two men who described these early sexual experiences, and have heard these stories from friends as well. In terms of my former boyfriends, one was seven when he lost his virginity, the other nine. Both saw this as a notch in their tiny, child-like belts. The girls in their experiences were teenagers also, so the men seemed to think that this was a testament to their own irresistibility: at eight years old, their sex appeal was so overwhelming, so potent, that teenage girls were compelled to have sex with them. The idea that this was rape—and it was—never crossed their minds. Why? Because the same poisonous system that tells women they are rape-able tells men that they are not.
We know some of the behavioral signals that occur when girls have been raped. Depression, promiscuity, unexplained anger, anxiety. These are words we use when we describe the ways victims behave. It’s interesting that I have seen these same symptoms in young boys—alongside me in class when I was a child, in boyfriends as I got older, in men beside me on the bus in Chicago—yet no one looks at male anger and male promiscuity as symptoms of anything. These are just classic male behaviors. “Boys will be boys,” and boys sleep around. Boys have bad tempers. Right?
Wrong.
What if we have been normalizing male rape victims’ symptoms for centuries? This is not to say that every man has been the victim of sexual abuse, but I know more than a few who have been, and their cries for help—the ones that get such attention when our “ladylike” daughters act out sexually and/or aggressively—went unnoticed, chalked up to a male standard of behavior that not only turns a blind eye to promiscuity but rewards it. Can you imagine? Can you imagine being sexually abused and then growing up being told that this is a good thing? That your sexual potency has been enhanced? That rape was a “head-start” into the wonderful world of sex? The damaging system that tells girls they are worthless after rape has a disgusting flip side for boys: you haveworth now. This violence has made you a god.
And we wonder why our boys grow up sex-obsessed, equating violence with pleasure (“be a beast at it”), and imagining that rape is only something that happens to women. We wonder why they grow up hating women; women who might look like their abuser, or women who were raped and actually had their violence addressed by a society that believes men are immune from that kind of crime, a crime that when committed against a male goes woefully under-reported.
Boys will be boys. And boys can be hurt. We must stop viewing patriarchy as a weapon that wounds only women. To do so silences generations of victims…and often creates more.
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Update 10/08/2013: I just came across this post by Colorlines on this same subject and I encourage you to read it as well.
Update 10/09/2013: I’ve been told numerous times that I am misinterpreting the phrase ” be a beast at it.” I aware of this and it was done deliberately, as I believe it’s important to acknowledge and understand the role of semantics in patriarchy and rape culture.
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Originally appeared at Olivia A. Cole
Editor’s note: For help and resources for male survivors, reach out to MaleSurvivor.org, 1in6.org, and TogetherWeHeal.org
Photo: Angostini/AP
To “Bud” A woman recently told me that “Men can’t be raped.” But you and I know different. A swinging light in your basement, the pachinko balls ring, and we know what fits into the places where it shouldn’t. Tearing apart the small things of little boys. Sometimes that wound still bleeds, and every time I take a shit, I am trying to push you out of me I do not remember what I told the judge, I just pull open the brass handled courtroom door and I am back on the hallway carpet again blinking, with the middle gone… Read more »
Wow. That is what I normally think of as male rape. I hate that beyond words. Good work with a painful poem.
Well written article. I’ve shared it everywhere I can. I don’t want to hijack your article, so rather than post it directly, here is a link to my own experience with this issue:
http://www.writeugly.com/poetry/to-bud.html
I’ll say it again, the sexuality of men and women is different and to suggest that it isn’t is simply false. Most boys, I think, would have greatly enjoyed being in Brown’s situation. Before go around locking up people, we need to look at case individually to determine if “rape” had occurred. There may be a small number of boys with extremely fragile psyches who could end up traumatized by the event. They should get counseling and their “abuser” charged.
I think the term “rape” itself is being thrown around far too easily here. By definition, it is sex against one partner’s will. It does not sound like Chris Brown was resisting his sexual experience. And while his partner was older than him, she was still a minor and not legally accountable for sexual crimes anyway. To me this seems like an uncomfortable but common case of children experimenting with their sexuality. It’s unpleasant for us to hear/talk about, but it’s common. And it’s very different from forced sex or exploitation by an adult.
@ Alyssa “And it’s very different from forced sex or exploitation by an adult.” But by your definition “I think the term “rape” itself is being thrown around far too easily here. By definition, it is sex against one partner’s will.” If the child is willing, what does it matter how old the adult is? It may be uncomfortable for you to believe that a girl (or any female) can rape a boy (or any male), but that is what happened. Thankfully, by definition you have to have the capacity to consent for it to be willing. In many states… Read more »
What we may be seeing in the case of Chris Brown is a cycle of abuse cutting across both genders. Girl abuses boy, boy grows up to abuse women, who then may abuse boys who then may abuse girls, etc. Excellent example of the fact that we can’t break cycles of sexual abuse by only focusing on men as perpetrators.
I think the experience is what the “victim” says it is.
Hi Hank You write: “✺I think the experience is what the “victim” says it is.”✺ Is it possible then that we have gotten all this wrong, turned up side down so to speak? As far as I know many children that have experienced sex with adults, grow up and have different attitudes to sexuality, their borders are different. They can be more open. So if what you say here is true, is it then possible that we repress and condemn their behavior as ” acting out sexual abuse ” instead of seeing this as healthy sexuality, maybe THE normal sexual… Read more »
I seriously think there is a key element that is being left out that the author was trying to bring awareness to. A very important key element that needs to be acknowledged before anything can change in perceptions of boys, men and rape. That key element is the fact that a lot of boys and men often talk about their early sexual experiences, even ones that were rape, as if they were always positive simply because a woman or girl desired them and they had sex. This mind frame, that everything men or boys are is sacrificed for sex, is… Read more »
@ Erin “The fact that Chris Brown doesn’t see that as something that was sick or rape, but actually talks about it as if it’s a positive thing, is actually not unique to him” I’m not sure that he does. He won’t say that it is a negative thing, but I’m not sure if part of him doesn’t feel that way. It could be because society assumes that all boys want sex. It could also be that society teaches boys that they can never be victimized especially by a girl to be raped is to be weak On a feminist… Read more »
I’m not sure that he does either John. And I acutally think that’s exactly what Olivia is saying when she points out negative behaviors men can display such as anger or violence which may be their ways of working out pain. But we do need to be honest about how Chris is talking about these experiences. He may not feel that they were positive but he talks about them as if they where. And that’s the key element I fear that a lot of us are not seeing. From what I gathered from the author, Oliva, she is basically making… Read more »
Erin: The issue of men not being able to acknowledge that they in fact have been raped/sexually abused by women is something that hampers their personal healing. And by extension it can hamper other male victim’s healing to the extent that they voice their framing in a normative way. The issue that women are not able to acknowledge that having sex with a boy/man not consenting/not able to consent/not capable of consent is something that enables (gives them an excuse) them to rape a boy/man. When you write: If men encourage their own debasement by saying plithy comments about hot… Read more »
Tamen, I am totally aware, and actually acknowledged in my comments in this very piece that men not being able to acknowledge their own abuse DOES infact hamper their personal healing. Please go back and read my comments. That is infact, the actual problem I brought up and how often men, even men who have not been sexually abused, normalize these situations. Such as when I talked about about discussions I’ve had with other men where they either rolled their eyes at me or told me I didn’t understand men when I was clear that a 25 year old woman… Read more »
Tamen, I am totally aware, and actually acknowledged in my comments in this very piece that men not being able to acknowledge their own abuse DOES infact hamper their personal healing. Please go back and read my comments. That is infact, the actual problem I brought up and how often men, even men who have not been sexually abused, normalize these situations. Yes, I know this and it’s clear that you misunderstood my criticism. To spell it out, I pointed out that you only addressed men’s inability to see themselves as victims of sexual violence from women and that you… Read more »
You are critisizing me based on something I never said or even thought. I addressed men’s inability to see themselves as victims because no one else here was addressing that part. Instead of actually addressing this part, you’ve made me your target. How depressing that you are more interested in making up false comments about me and what I may think then talking about the topic! I also NEVER said that women shouldn’t speak out against it. I said that unless men themselves voice what is rape to them, it doesn’t matter how many women speak out against it. That… Read more »
@ Erin
Men have spoken out about being sexually abused by women. They don’t always get the press. We’ve seen many stories on this site. When women initially spoke of their abuse, they weren’t always supported by other women. When I look at the strides women have made, I think it would be a mistake to assume that they got there on their own. A lot of men helped even if they didn’t take credit for it.
Again, I did not say that women shouldn’t speak out against rape toward men. I said that in my experience, based on my PERSONAL experience, whether you agree with that experience or not, that when I spoke out against male rape, other men condesended to me and told me I didn’t get it. So I think it’s VERY important to address the ideas men have about their own sexuality when it comes to women and rape before you can see real change . What is so horrible about that? Also, yes, I am aware that there have been men that… Read more »
I’ve had a theory for years that sort of ties into this. Forced male circumcision. We take our newborn boys and strap them down. A Dr STIMULATES an Erection and then the penis is cut into, removing a very vital piece (look it up!) our boys are raped from birth. And part of me wonders do they remember in some way the link between sex and violence/ Our boys get called “sex obsessed” and so on but literally the first act performed on them is sexual and violent. Interesting when you really get into the research bit of it all… Read more »
@ Timothe
I’ve also heard of women who give their infant sons a “tickle” of their genitals when changing their diapers an act that would be considered child rape if a father did that to a daughter.
This can easely be dismissed or denied, by looking into other countries where circumcision are not practiced or at least looking at guys who havent been circumcised. Are they less prone to sexual violence? is there any difference? yours is a interesting question, but im not aware of any statistics who look into this.
Hi Timothe
What you say here is important.
The body rembers everything, as far as I know.
Lot of great responses. What hit me from the start of the article was “And the worst part? This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this from a man.” It’s sad that it took this long but I’m glad you’re feeling a jolt of reality. My working with adolescent males for the past 14 years, I have encountered several young boys who have experienced similar situations. Sadly, many of these kids took the position that as one stated “I bagged my first babe when I was 8.” In this particular instance, he bagged his 18 year old baby sitter who… Read more »
Somehow, I think maybe Chris Brown is feeding into his ‘Bad Boy’ image with his assessment . I cannot think of an 8 year old BOY or GIRL thinking along those lines of ‘Bagging your first’! I think , as in the case of Jezebel ,perhaps that there is a segment of his detractors that would feel , perhaps if not satisfaction, a sense of ‘what goes around ,comes around’ if he were to say he was victimized. I mean, there’s nothing he could really do either now or then about what happened to him Opening up by young men… Read more »
“as in the case of Jezebel ,perhaps that there is a segment of his detractors that would feel , perhaps if not satisfaction, a sense of ‘what goes around ,comes around’ if he were to say he was victimized.” But in the case of Jezebel, if it were a woman that would be used if not to excuse her later behavior at least to explain it. Look at the quite I posted from Erin Gloria Ryan’s follow up piece “was abused by a girl who was older, but also herself maybe too young to consent to sex, likely perpetuating something… Read more »
There are some great points in the article,but i was left with one very important question:What if Chris Brown was LYING? I understand that Male Rape is a real thing,especially with young Boys,but I also know that when it comes to Sex,MEN LIE! Especially when they think it will somehow make them look larger than life sexually.
That’s entirely possible. Brown could have very well fabricated the encounter to boost his cred with others. Thing is though (and I apologize in advance for getting snappy) what grounds do we have to think he’s lying other than possibility itself (and by that I mean that short of a video recording of the encounter there would always be room for “what if he’s lying?”). One thing I’ve noticed is that when it comes to women retelling stories of past rape its considered wrong and victim blaming to even entertain the possibility that they are lying. Men should get that… Read more »
Thank you Danny! I’ve been really disgusted by how some media outlets have covered this story (Doug Barry’s piece on Jezebel was so offensive that they even issued an apology in an “editors note” a few days later). The same groups who tell us not to victim blame when the victim is female (Jezebel) seem to have no problem victim blaming when the victim is male. It’s like they haven’t even been listening to themselves these past several years. Absolutely, Christ Brown deserves the benefit of the doubt, and absolutely the pressure should not be on Chris Brown, or men… Read more »
Okay, that was supposed to be “Chris Brown” and not “Christ Brown,” sorry for the typo.
@ Mike L And even in Jezebel’s second attempt they can’t help but indulge in rape apology for the female perpetrator. “I didn’t want to believe it was true, that an 8-year-old boy who in no way, shape, or form can consent to sex was abused by a girl who was older, but also herself maybe too young to consent to sex, likely perpetuating something awful that had happened to her. ” I won’t link to it. It doesn’t deserve to be read and they don’t deserve the ad revenue for writing it, but I will give credit to the… Read more »
I want to be consistent here. Every accused rapist is innocent until proven guilty, no matter the gender of anyone involved. The girl involved is innocent until proven guilty, just like anyone else accused of rape. We should take all rape accusations seriously, but that doesn’t mean we automatically condemn the accused either. It’s just a statement of objective fact that an accuser COULD be lying. That’s why we’re supposed to have courts instead of lynch mobs.
@ wellokaythen
OK, but he hadn’t to my knowledge actually named a specific person, which is what makes it different from the Elizabeth Coast situation where she did actually lie and her lie cost Jonathan Montgomery 4 years of his life. In this case, who is hurt with an assumption of truth?
You’re right, it’s not a specific allegation, but whether the person is named or not there is still the presumption of innocence. Presuming the accused is innocent until proven guilty is NOT the same thing as saying the accuser is lying. There are many reasons why an accusation may not be fully accurate: lying, misremembering, mistaken identity, mitigating circumstances, etc. I don’t understand why this is so simplistic in people’s minds. Taking a charge seriously is not the same thing as believing it. Presuming someone innocent until proven guilty is the not the same as calling the accuser a liar.… Read more »
ok this is the first time I experienced that the auto refresh ate my commentary away. Puzzled by this. Anyways, im surprised that you pose this question Romello. Why do you assume MEN lying about their sexual activity. Beside its possible that all people (both male and female) lye about sex. But its kinda shocking that you jump in here claiming that men lye. ” What if Chris Brown was LYING? ” Possibly, but then we should take in consideration that women also lye about their own rape. Beside I like to ask you, is this a attempt to show… Read more »
It was a simple question that begged to be asked. Most Men familiar with the whole “Locker room Culture”of Bragging,are MORE than familiar with Men who Lie about their Sexual Conquests,especially their First One! Lying about how Old one was when they first had Sex is something that a LOT of men do.So why would anyone NOT assume that Chris Brown is doing exactly that?
Ultimately, if you think about it, the situation is sick if he’s telling the truth OR if he’s lying. If he’s exaggerating because there’s some sort of “deflationary” pressure on reporting the age you lost your virginity, then that’s evidence of some pretty warped social pressure out there. The idea that someone would report that (true or false) not for sympathy but to impress other people is pretty sick. If it’s true or false, either way it’s a really weird source of pride.
Im not really sure what you are talking about, but the point is, there is a man who claims he has been raped as a child. I dont really feel its appropriate to question it. Actually the conversation should go to encouraging more men to come up with their stories so to prevent it (if its possible, but I doubt it) or at least helping the victims in the appropriate manner. Not screaming I dont believe it, because then fewer men will open up. So if he lies or nor, for me its secondary.
I met a man in his mid 20s about 20 years ago who told me he had been raped as a teen. Held against his will for a weekend and used by a couple of women in their 20s. It had harmed him. I was a victim of a violent rape when I was young, and I listened, but it was hard for me to understand. Even the language he used to describe it to me made it sound like he enjoyed it, although he made it clear that he did not and that he was haunted by it. I… Read more »
Damn just hearing you give a recap was tough. Even the language he used to describe it to me made it sound like he enjoyed it, although he made it clear that he did not and that he was haunted by it. That could be a result of the limitations of the language he had at his disposal to tell the experience. For the most part guys are raised to believe that if she’s attractive the sex is desirable no matter what (and I wouldn’t be surprised if, despite what they did to him, he considered them attractive). I comforted… Read more »
@ chelicera An erection is an natural reflex to a stimulus just like nipples get erect it doesn’t mean you’re enjoying it or lactating, but even some men may wonder if deep down inside they may have wanted it. I heard a psychologist say that rape affects men more than women because they are betrayed by their bodies and need to come to terms with that. There are very few resources available to male rape victims. I’ve even heard some male survivors say that when they called a rape crisis center they were told that the center didn’t service men… Read more »
My son is six and I don’t even like to think that he could have sex in a year or two. He can’t barely wipe his own butt still! It is sad that society would be outraged if a 14 year old boy had sex with an 8 year old girl and not vice versus. Perhaps when/if Chris Brown has a child of his own he will see that 8 is extremely young and not at all preparation for the long run in any good sense…
I think it is possible that patriarchy does play a role here. I have been wondering for some time if the women who commit child molestation some how see boys as ‘safe’ sexual partners. Also a factor in the ‘damage’ dabate, female molesters rarely use violence or threats common in male rape of females. Just thoughts, not conclusions.
@ YurIkeygirlus
“I have been wondering for some time if the women who commit child molestation some how see boys as ‘safe’ sexual partners.”
By “‘safe’ sexual partners”, I sincerely hope you mean victims who can’t fight back.
I…Really don’t think that’s the case. Maybe because of culture, maybe because of biology, but I don’t think males look at sexual interactions with females the same way females do with males. Even if the interaction is not wanted, they’re more likely to take a neutral “meh” look at it as opposed to feeling like they’ve been taken advantage of or violated.
“Do we believe that females are more damaged by the same activities which females inflict on males because of an unconscious belief in female weakness or an exaggerated sense of masculine power?” Women = Good , Men = Bad. Something bad can damage something that is good, but how can something good damage what is already considered bad in it’s very nature? Part of the fallacy of the moral primacy of women. It is totally screwed up, yet see how many comments about chris brown’s rapist on the ‘net show some form of sympathy for the rapist…..If the rapist/victims were… Read more »
Something about the ‘patriarchy hurts men too’ line taken here strikes me as a little off. In particular, it comes across as an attempt to bolster or reassert a governing feminist narrative, rather than truly grappling with the phenomenon of the abuse of young males by women on its own troubling terms. The real problem here is not primarily ‘patriarchal’ ideas in boys’ heads, but the fact that some women rape young boys. Perhaps we should be thinking more about the ideas that run through their heads. It seems to me that feminism risks implicitly coding women as victims and… Read more »
I agree. I can see how patriarchy *might* be part of the issue here, but it’s a pretty big leap to go from women raping men to “patriarchy.” It even seems illogical. How does male dominance of women explain a woman raping a man? It might explain how the men themselves view their experience, but it’s hard to explain what the perpetrator is thinking. Unless the article author is suggesting that when women do good things they are acting as women but when they do bad things it’s because of patriarchal brainwashing. If female rape of a male is a… Read more »
How does male dominance of women explain a woman raping a man? It might explain how the men themselves view their experience, but it’s hard to explain what the perpetrator is thinking. That’s pretty much it. So in effect we supposedly live under a system that values the masculine over the feminine and simultaneously teaches men that their feelings on sex do not matter and that women are owed sex from men. Unless the article author is suggesting that when women do good things they are acting as women but when they do bad things it’s because of patriarchal brainwashing.… Read more »
@ Danny
“That patriarchal brainwashing is just a desperate leap to connect any bad actions a woman does to something, anything, male when there is not a direct male to point to.”
Yup, that’s pretty much it. I think it’s also a way to sort of absolve a woman of responsibility. They have no agency when they do anything bad. Some feminists have gone so far as to suggest that women shouldn’t be incarcerated because either specific men have driven them to do what they did or male dominated society has.
I think it’s also a way to sort of absolve a woman of responsibility. They have no agency when they do anything bad. No question. That’s why when you see a woman/boy statutory rape situation there is a push to get the story out on how she is mentally unstable, how she was abused as a child, and so on. Or when woman kills a man in a DV situation the starting presumption is that he must have done something to deserve it. The radical notion that women are people……until it comes time to hold people responsible for their own… Read more »
Just a little benefit of the doubt here for the article author: This is a site ostensibly about men’s issues, so it’s not out of line to look at a man’s experience of being raped largely from his point of view without looking at the point of view of the female assailant. If she talked much about the 14-15 year old abuser, she would then stand accused of being an apologist for the rapist or being too concerned about women on a site that’s supposed to be about men, etc. But, then bringing in patriarchy anyway scuttles much of the… Read more »
I think the constant attempt to make everything, even obvious damages to males, fit into the paradigm of “the system is made up to benefit the masculine over the feminine” needs to be looked at. I mean we have an article the points out a shining example of the system damages males and instead of rethinking the analysis of the system its just rendered a a side effect of a system supposedly designed to damage females. From the article: We must stop viewing patriarchy as a weapon that wounds only women. To do so silences generations of victims You know… Read more »
@ wellokaythen “If she talked much about the 14-15 year old abuser, she would then stand accused of being an apologist for the rapist or being too concerned about women on a site that’s supposed to be about men, etc.” I disagree. I believe it depends on the way she talks about the abuser. We’ll discuss a lot of issues that would be considered “women’s issues” by many people on a site for men. Why don’t men complain? Because they should be concerned with things that negatively impact women. Should that be the only thing we talk about or our… Read more »
The connection between patriarchy and rape culture is not necessarily direct or automatic. Just as there are multiple forms of feminism, there are many different kinds of patriarchy. Patriarchy does not automatically mean the presence of a “rape culture.” A patriarchal society could encourage rape or discourage rape. A society that practices gender equality could encourage rape or discourage rape. A matriarchal society could encourage rape or discourage rape. For example, you could have an extremely patriarchal society in which the rape of a woman was punishable by death and even making light of rape would be punished. You could… Read more »
I’ll just state that I too agree with much of Alastair’s comment. Little is written about the female perpetrator’s agency and how to teach them not to stop this. It is important to raise awareness among boys and men that they it is possible for them to be victims of sexual abuse from both female and male perpetrators. But it’s no less important to teach girls and women that boy’s and men’s consent matter too.
i agree with most of your points, except your last point regarding getting rid of a feminist perspective in analysis. i do believe that a feminist perspective is beneficial when it comes to analysing issues such as these as feminism (radical feminism, in particular) focuses on sex-gender-power relations, although, if you take the statistics you posted regarding the 30% youths raped by females, a feminist perspective would focus more on the 70% of the sample, the *properties* of the 70%, and aims to explain *why* it’s 70%, which is why it (feminism) may be off-putting for some people on this… Read more »
Hi Olivia
This is a very good question.
You are smart.
✺”What if we have been normalizing male rape victims’ symptoms for centuries?
…… And we wonder why our boys grow up sex-obsessed, equating violence with pleasure “✺
I think these are all good points. I also think that one reason why we feel men are so predatory has a lot to do with how we see perceive women as being different than men. Plenty of men, many whom I’ve met, have had the “babysitter” experience and yet few people are suspicious of female babysitter in the way they would be a male babysitter. While most women are predators, I think there is a case to be made that we SHOULD be suspicious of a female who wants to babysit because it is possible that the reason why… Read more »