Frida Ghitis and Mithal al-Alusi, who she has written about with praise as a man
Frida Ghitis—a noted foreign affairs journalist who started at CNN soon after it started in 1981 and covered covered the collapse of the Soviet Union from Russia, the 1991 Gulf War from Jordan and Saudi Arabia—published an opinion piece for CNN which asked the question, “Are Men Stupid?”
It got huge traffic, 4k comments, and really pissed me off.
I wrote a response, “Actually, No.”
I was content to leave it at that since the whole line of thinking in which modern manhood is defined by the likes of Charlie Sheen has long since lost its luster as a straw man to fight against. I am just sick and tired of yet another headline, yet another woman holding up the stupidity of men.
Enough.
But a reader drew me into a tweeter conversation with the author of the original piece, Frida. Now I have scars all over my body from the Christmas massacre, which occurred when I got into a twitter fight with Hugo Schwyzer that spilled over to Slate columnist Amanda Marcotte and Roseanne Barr, shotgun and all.
So I treaded lightly, really trying to understand the author’s motivation and point of view. After an hour or so of exchanges Frida offered to email me to explain. Below is what I received. I asked her permission to publish it, which she readily granted.
◊♦◊
Hi Thomas,
I appreciate your concerns about my article, and I understand your concerns. And I definitely see why you found the headline, in particular, troubling.
Nevertheless, I think the discussion about why some men throw it all away for casual sexual affairs is, indeed, a legitimate one.As I mentioned in our earlier exchange, I write about world politics. Like many other people, men and women, I have been intrigued by the frequent news of otherwise intelligent men choosing to engage in sexual liaisons that destroy their careers. As an observer of international affairs, I have seen the impact this has.
Still, you are absolutely correct that there are many men who behave admirably. I could not agree more. I have written about them in other articles.
They grace magazine covers and are the subject of interviews and praise on a regular basis.There are countless men I admire and respect. But that doesn’t take away the fact that we see a parade of powerful ones who destroy their own careers in a way that simply does not make any sense. It is their behavior I wrote about, notwithstanding the headline chosen by the editors.
The very reason the misbehavior is noteworthy is because it deviates from the expected. We expect men to act intelligently, especially intelligent ones. They don’t always do that.
Without the foolish dalliances of people like Bill Clinton, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, and many others, the world might look very different today.
The examples are many and we hear new ones regularly.
That is not to deny the obvious fact that many women also make foolish decisions. And it is not a claim that all men behave this way.
I hope this clarifies my views for you.
Best,
Frida
◊♦◊
Frida subsequently sent me these links to stories she has written about men she admires:
A few brave Arabs speak up for Israel
N. Korea: Absurd, cruel, tragic and dangerous
One Man’s Life and the Future of Iraq
◊♦◊
So in the end I still very much disagree with a story which asks the question whether men are stupid. Frida claims she had nothing to do with the headline, and agrees that it is unfair. But she actually asks the same question in the body of the text and is very broad in her own language. “The question has baffled women, mostly, since biblical times,” she states referring to men’s IQ meltdown.
If you are going to talk about leaders who make grave personal mistakes, which in turn have a negative impact on the rest of us, I suppose that is fair enough. But let’s not couch it in terms of manhood. Let’s just say that quite a few human beings who aspire to lead have a fatal flaw that unfortunately causes them to implode in ways that are sad and damaging.
That issue has nothing to do with the broader question of what it is to be a man in the 21st century and how we as men navigate the roles of husband, father, son and worker.
That said, I appreciate that Frida took the time to correspond with us and frame out what she thinks about men and to contrast the harsh language in the original piece with words of praise for men in general and the specific men in the stories she sent.
I learned something in the process. Which is that when it comes to gender sometimes having a constructive discussion requires being curious about what someone really thinks even when you are sure they are dead wrong. Sometimes they will really surprise you.
So, her e-mail clarifies her position quite well:
Of course, not all men are stupid. I’m just wondering why there are so many who are. See, that’s not sexist.
i always wondering too why most women are stupid and gold diggers. Thats not sexist too
Maybe I’m just quibbling over examples, but the examples she uses are pretty faulty even if she’s using a really broad definition of “sexual dalliances.” For example, I _suspect_ that DSK is guilty of some sort of inappropriate, even criminal, sexual activity, but has that actually been PROVEN to a degree sufficient to say that he is guilty of sexual stupidity? Being accused of doing something stupid and doing something stupid are not the same thing. Why are people so stupid as to assume that allegations are true? I’m still getting over the reference to “biblical times” in a professional,… Read more »
Interesting quote
“The very reason the misbehavior is noteworthy is because it deviates from the expected. We expect men to act intelligently, especially intelligent ones. They don’t always do that”
Hmm, since it is common sense that women also behave badly and do stupid things and yet it isn’t noteworthy, does this mean the media EXPECTS women to behave badly and be stupid.
I’ve been looking a little closer at this story and issue. There does seem to be a view, embedded in the CNN story, that only male CEO’s/Politicians are to be used to judge all men – and label all as stupid. I am not telling tales out of class when I say that Women can and do do stupid things – they also have affairs, illicit liaisons, get involved in sexual harassment of employees and generally do things which are equally stupid! I know of too many who have – in Education – in the Health sector – in the… Read more »
hmmm…not convinced. There may be an under reporting bias, but the lack of powerful women caught in compromising positions is surely that women are substantially less inclined to engage in such lascivious behavior to begin with. There is a recurrent theory on the blogosphere that as women gain more power in society (and men lose it), women will be free to act as badly as men and/or men will lose the privilege of behaving badly. Depending on personal persuasion, opinions differ on what constitutes “normal” but the consensus assumes behaviors will ultimately converge b/c gender is only a social construct… Read more »
Well, President Clinton was impeached, but was eventually acquitted of the two articles of impeachment.
“December 19, 1998: After 13 1/2 hours of debate over two days, the House of Representatives approves two articles of impeachment, charging President Clinton with lying under oath to a federal grand jury and obstructing justice. Clinton vows to fill out his term and appeals for a bipartisan compromise in the Senate.
…
February 12, 1999: President Clinton is acquitted of the two articles of impeachment”
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/johnson/clintontimeline.htm
Women didn’t commit those indiscretions largely because they weren’t in a position to do them. Couldn’t an argument be made that women are too stupid to hold leadership positions? Women make up over 50% of the vote. Factor in incarceration rates and the denial of the vote to felons in certain areas and that percentage is easily 52, 53%. How dumb would you have to be if you can’t convince your own gender to vote for you? We know reality is a bit more complicated than that. Misogyny and misandry is not limited to the opposite gender. Men like women… Read more »
…he was impeached by the house, but not the senate.
I detect an undercurrent of agitation on this topic. Its a frustrating reality, but I think we all know that if those secret service agents had been 11 women instead of 11 men, or that NY attorney had been a women instead of a man, we wouldn’t have had those sex scandals. Stupidity and immaturity may be gender neutral qualities, but sexual improprieties are just dominated by men. Not saying that women can’t trespass or that all men are sexual libertines, but so long as our media finds sexual imprudence a topic worth reporting, those headlines will be dominated by… Read more »
Stupidity and immaturity may be gender neutral qualities, but sexual improprieties are just dominated by men. Not saying that women can’t trespass or that all men are sexual libertines, but so long as our media finds sexual imprudence a topic worth reporting, those headlines will be dominated by men and our unique tomfoolery. Fair enough but that problem isn’t so much that its mostly men doing it. The problem is as you nod to in your first sentence leaping from “most sexual improprieties are done by men” to “does this mean men are stupid?”. Not: “Why do so many men… Read more »
“but I think we all know that if”
Words commonly said before a racist, sexist, etc generalization. I don’t know that being all female the chances would be lower, but what gives you that idea?
It’s not an unfair generalization to extrapolate on a statistically relevant observation with a clear causal relationship between the predictor and the dependant. Here, let’s try a couple of examples: I think we all know that if… -those agents were men instead of women, they would have had less menstrual cycles -those agents were children instead of adults, they would have needed more nap time -those agents were donkeys instead of monkeys, they would have needed less bananas So here’s the observation: men masturbate more, visit more prostitutes, visit more strip clubs, consume more porn and make more rejected sexual… Read more »
Yes, the leaders Ghitis mentioned are stupid. But the women aren’t equally to blame? Shouldn’t those who willingly participate in these affairs share some of the responsibility?
It’s the same with the whole contraception issue conservatives have raised. They act like the women should stop having sex and be more responsible but never suggest the men these women are having sex with should take any responsibility.
It takes two to tango. It’s unfair to blame one without assigning at least some of the responsibility upon the other.
Yes, the leaders Ghitis mentioned are stupid. But the women aren’t equally to blame? Shouldn’t those who willingly participate in these affairs share some of the responsibility? Good luck on that because that requires a thing called agency. The idea that in some cases a woman is actually responsible for her action no matter how bad they are. Its the reason why when that Eliot Spitzer incident went down a while back people were treating the prostitute he was spending money on like she was a victim, despite her being a willing participant in the sex. Hell I remember a… Read more »
“Good luck on that because that requires a thing called agency. The idea that in some cases a woman is actually responsible for her action no matter how bad they are.” Now, I agree that women are often portrayed as people without agency, particularly in the media. And I definitely agree that this is a huge problem whenever it comes to anything regarding sex. And seeing as this is something in the media with regards to sex, that seems to fit. However, I do think that the “our society doesn’t blame women for anything,” argument gets made too often. Not… Read more »
However, I do think that the “our society doesn’t blame women for anything,” argument gets made too often. Not in this instance…just in general. Agreed. Our society does put responsibility on women plenty of times when they do horrible things. Yes and just like with men it seems to switch back and forth in an inconsistent manner. That’s how you end up with people thinking that a woman is 100% responsible for birth control and men are 100% for all intergender violence (no matter which way its going). What I mean to say is that the media narratives surrounding these… Read more »
Oh I definitely agree it’s inconsistent and unfair both ways much of the time (i.e. men are given agency for things they couldn’t control, and women are given agency for things they couldn’t control). As for birth control, yeah you make a good point…I was just thinking about the act of sex itself. Like say, prostitution (with the women often viewed as abused victims), sexual assault and rape (which we’ve had many discussions about), cheating (which is almost always assumed to be a guy, not a woman)…heck the way straight pick-ups work (so I’ve been told) is that women are… Read more »
“notwithstanding the headline chosen by the editors”
WTF, she’s distancing herself from the headline and blaming the editors? Hmmm…maybe we can uncover where the editors misunderstood the article and conjured their pithy headline.
Clue #1, the article opens with: “Are men stupid? How else can we explain…”
…well I think we solved it Watson.
“Are Women Stupid” – by Transhuman One CNN reporter, a woman, asks if all men are stupid, a question she claims has been pondered by women since biblical times. Women can, as a sex, barely manage to represent 50% of the STEM course graduates who then go on to be employed in their trained field; instead they get cushy jobs with the McDonalds of journalism known as CNN. I think I’ll make the sweeping statement that yes, based upon this one woman, women are indeed stupid. Making baseless generalisations is pretty easy. Maybe I should apply for a journo gig… Read more »
I have been amused by this whole story – mainly because of some wry comments from friends who are Journalists/Media Gurus, and their take on it all! 1) Who in the media has been caught with their pants/panties round their ankles and is being got at with this whole story issue? 2) Who as a public figure has been caught and is getting ready to be slaughtered – and has used the term stupid against opponents – thereby declaring open season when they get caught? Public Flogging and Blood Bath to follow! 3) When does the Hypocrisy end – of… Read more »
I find this to be a pretty standard case of sensationalism trumping journalism. It’s really sad that this is the norm in the media.
What’s there to understand. Men do things like this to feel alive. Now should they find something else? Probably. The risk is the biggest the attraction.
“That is not to deny the obvious fact that many women also make foolish decisions. And it is not a claim that all men behave this way.”
It’s good that she thinks that, but the language of everything else she wrote went exactly the other way.
Peter you are correct. But just getting her to say something sane, despite the rest of what she which contradicts it, was my goal.
Ho-hum, another’journalist’ takes aim at the ‘Male Pinatia’. How origional, how insiteful. So she bashes men on CNN and apoligizes on Twitter and by E-mails. How pathetic! Hey, you know freelance writers get paid by the article, so it’s an easy payday!
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not going to be embarrassed into defending the Dominique Strauss-Kahns, Bill Clintons, Eliot Spitzers or Bobby Petrinos.
Male behavior is a complex web of many strands. But stupidity is one of them.
When there’s a men’s responsibility movement, maybe we’ll stop expecting women not to say mean things about us for screwing up.
That’s just victim blaming.
Were it a case of women having an affair and the man making a false allegation of rape or going to the tabloids, they would be attacking the him.
When the genders are reversed in the situation, they attack the male too.
I’m sorry, Eoghan. I’m having a hard time thinking of these men as “victims.” The word almost feminizes them for me.
I see them more as scoundrels. I don’t even mind scoundrels. I do expect them to stay in character, though, and not turn into martyrs on the hot seat.
I can’t think with terms like “victim blaming” that turns big swinging cocks, even erstwhile ones, into passive sufferers set upon by sharpies.
Mike.
If a woman have an affair, and the man then made a public false accusation of rape or sold the story to the tabloids, who would be the scoundrel and who would be the victim then for the media and in the public’s eye?
Men aren’t doing that sort of thing women in the numbers women are to men and if they did, society and the media would attack them for it.
When I saw this article on CNN, I couldn’t believe it. It’s offensive on so many levels. First of all, if it’s true what she says about her not having control over the headline, then shame on CNN for creating such a sensational one in the first place–I’m assuming to garner ratings. And second, as a follow up to the previous one, why not pick a title that really more accurately describes the question. Why do some people throw everything away to have these affairs? Because the posters who mentioned that women do, too are right. At least in my… Read more »
And if women were treated the same way, as the men she mentioned were, they would be crying sexism and oppression. Truth is, men generally don’t have sex with women, and then use that to self promote, profit or publicly destroy them.
Rebuttal, exhibit A: Kris Humphries.
Exhibit B: Kevin Federline.
Exhibit C: Bobby Brown (Mr. Whitney Houston).
Facts in evidence don’t speak to a generality, but they do support actuality.
I don’t think that they are good examples of men that had clandestine affairs with women, and then gone public about them for personal gain.
@ Mike
Many people think Kris Humphries was used to revitalize Kim Kardashian’s career. Didn’t she get like $7,000,000 to televise the wedding?
I agree that men in positions of power and notoriety are playing with fire when they have an affair, and it is pretty stupid to take that risk considering what is at stake; their credibility, their jobs, and their money. To what extent do these men get caught in such scandals because the women involved can’t keep it secret? Even using the threat of exposing the affair for personal gain? We’ve seen the likes of Larry Flynt offering women hundreds of thousands in payoffs to provide proof of an illicit affair with any number of politicians, famous actors or athletes.… Read more »
Jon I do think it worth exploring both sides of power as an aphrodisiac (powerful and powerless without regard to gender). But again my point was that the ultra powerful have little to nothing in common with men in general.
“Nevertheless, I think the discussion about why some men throw it all away for casual sexual affairs is, indeed, a legitimate one.”
Fine. Then why oh why did Friday not think of actually, y’know, asking some men if she wanted an answer to this question?
Because the answers may well have helped her understand men, rather than just ignorantly judging and dismissing them as she did in this article.
Here is a thought on all this.
Is it possible that high powered women have just as many affairs BUT are either more discrete OR because the people they are having the affair with are more discreet. Afterall, it could be argued that the women these men were having affairs with kinda made out like bandits, got book deals, got talk show deals etc etc. I highly doubt a young man who was screwing a high powered woman would be making the talk show circuit so there is no (read money) reason to come forward.
Maybe so, but the situation Ms. Ghitis is different. It’s not high-ranking women in government service ordering in some night when they’re TDY in Rome, or getting their groove back in Jamaica. It is something specific, a kind of frat party mentality that probably no women in the Secret Service participate in. She is absolutely right, this was absolutely stupid. I personally think this is a case where she as an individual does not have some seething man-hatred going on, but she is framing her thoughts in terms of the man-hatred of the larger culture. So this is a case… Read more »
“It is something specific, a kind of frat party mentality that probably no women in the Secret Service participate in.” Well now that part of it, the idea that the few women who are in the Secret Service probably were excluded, is actually interesting. I don’t think it makes their hiring prostitutes problematic…but it does make you wonder about the ‘boys club’ mentality. If a lesbian SS agent had been like…yeah I’ll join in too…would they have thought that was weird? Was it meant to be a guys only thing? Unfortunately the direction the dialogue is taking about this seems… Read more »
“she is framing her thoughts in terms of the man-hatred of the larger culture.” is exactly my point and well said.
Not sure about the point about Don Imus. He got fired. Don’t think Frida is in any danger of that.
I don’t think he is trying to suggest that she is getting fired or that she should get fired. Probably more like she deserves some backlash over it, to a point.
This was the point I was trying to make in my column on HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vicki-larson/why-were-harder-on-men-wh_b_1437335.html) and that was reprinted here (https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/why-men-should-take-a-lesson-from-women-on-cheating/) — “a kind of frat party mentality that probably no women in the Secret Service participate in. She is absolutely right, this was absolutely stupid.” I truly wonder about that frat-boy mentality. My boys are, thankfully, not interested in that and I have to hope that is in part because their dad and I are not attracted to that (although some of my kids’ friends have been). But it isn’t just frat-boy mentality that gets many intelligent men in… Read more »
Yeah, well maybe you should re-read your article, because it didn’t come across that way to me (and others). It came across as more of a taunt! Another ‘All Men are Stupid” article to go with the 6 BILLION or so like it published it seems daily by women.
Personally what bothers me so much is that this piece went pretty much unchallenged at the same time that we are supposed to believe that men don’t get generalized like this. I stand by that claim that if this had been an article painting women under some broad brush most of the people that were dead silent on this would be circling tanks and calling for blood.