It’s not my place to tell women they are wrong? Why? Because I’m not them.
This is not a perfect corollary, and it’s hard for me to put out there, but I suspect that a lot of these guys who see nothing wrong with cat-calling women, if they walked down the street in a predominantly gay neighborhood and guys were calling out to them, or even if they weren’t, they would be looking around them, a little bit nervous and uncomfortable, wondering if one of those guys was going to follow them or put their hands on them or attack them, assault them, rape them. Or if a guy did call out to them, I can imagine they’d probably be ready to jump on him. You can see this pretty immediately if you ask what he’d be worried about at a gay bar or what he would do if some guy hollered at him. Guess what, guys. They just had a little bit of a taste of what many women feel like going out on the street. Is this you? Or someone you know? You’re concerned about what could happen to you, especially if you’re being cat-called or followed. We know in reality that it’s very highly unlikely that a guy whistling or eyeing you or calling at you is going to attack or rape you, but you’re still going to be worried about going into a gay bar, or going into a not-public space in that bar. And that doesn’t change the fact that you’re concerned about walking down the street, because you just don’t know. Yes, this is simplified, and does not apply to a lot of guys. But it’s probably the closest scenario to be imagined. The statistics say you’re going to be fine…but you walk a little faster and don’t make eye contact, just in case.
Also on The Good Men Project:
Men Behaving Badly – Street Harassment and Cat-Calling
What My Wife Taught Me About Street Harassment
Empathy Leads to Understanding
Want the best of The Good Men Project posts sent to you by email? Join our mailing list here.
seems like a lot of guys are upset by the idea that women are afraid of being raped and want to argue with women about it. I wonder why that is?
Men are at risk of bad things too. That’s true. It doesn’t change my risk. The fact that men are more likely to die in car accidents doesn’t mean I can stop wearing a seatbelt.
It doesn’t, but if you then went on to keep talking about how *women* are at threat from car accidents, and how it’s a “women’s issue”, and insist people give a disproportionate amount of attention to it, people might raise an eyebrow or two.
It’s the same point – men are *more* at risk from street violence, which also often begins with harassment, but that issue gets virtually no traction compared to an issue which is a far lesser risk.
Exactly this. While I certainly believe it’s important to respond with empathy whenever a woman (or a man) tells you their experiences, when it comes to addressing social issues we shouldn’t treat them as gendered issues unless they truly are. Moreover, solutions are more likely to be effective if they’re gender neutral. In the example of rape: If we teach “men not to rape” and to pursue her consent without teaching the other side of that equation – bam, you just doubled down hard on traditional gender roles, taught him that women are weak, that they need to be protected,… Read more »
Of course I am upset by women fearing rape, no one should. I wish everyone was safe. If you meant my comment though, it was me wondering why the fear of rape is so high for street encounters and my theory that society puts a lot more fear into women than they probably have in other societies. The fear alone causes quite a lot of pain and trouble for many, some even change their lifestyle to avoid certain situations which is horrible. I want to see more done to stop rape and abuse, but also more done to ensure we… Read more »
Except, Jen, it doesn’t stop with “I’m a fraid of being raped.” It continues with “And it’s your job, guy who doesn’t catcall, harass or rape women, to do something about it!”
Really? Why?
I’m already literally doing all that I can- not doing the thing- why is it therefore my responsibility beyond that? I can’t control other men any more than YOU can.
There’s a video of a woman that recreated the NYC video, she walked in a New Zealand city and didn’t get harassed at all. Seems culture plays a major role. I see so women women say this is a daily occurence for women, yet many women I know that I’ve talked to about it don’t report that but we don’t live in the U.S. There was a comment of an American woman that came to Australia and says it’s also different here too. My impression is that Australian women are not as afraid of sexual abuse in general as the… Read more »
Archy– I do think that culture has a lot to do with it…my 14 yo son knows not to do it….he had extensive anti-bullying and anti-harassment education in school… A few summers ago, we were on vacation in San Diego and while we were looking at some exhibits on a steamship, some foreign guys started making sick noises and whistling sounds at me from the next room…I was wearing baggy shorts and standing not more than 10 feet from my husband and son….right away, I ignored them and stepped closer to my family and they stopped….later, when we were on… Read more »
Sorry to hear about that. I wish they’d behave more decently.
Belgium also has a problem with harassment. There’s a video of a woman walking through a city in NZ without ANY harassment which compared to the NY video is amazingly different. Not sure what life is like in Belgium, but Australia and NZ are largely secular so that could be a potential issue.
“It’s not that women want to be rescued; they just don’t want to be worried about what’s going to happen next, and in a way that men don’t have to.” Dunno about other people but I still have A LOT of fear as a man who is 6’6, 300+ lbs and probably could hospitalize people if I had to. Streets can be scary. Hell I probably have more fear than 95% of women since mine actually hits the disorder level where I stay home A LOT. There is a massive elephant in the room though. Society TEACHES women to be… Read more »
Archy, I was nearly done with a response when my computer froze and there it went, but there are a few items I do want to respond to. You gave the courtesy of a thoughtful response and I’d like to do the same.
JJ, no problems. Computers can be annoying! I just wish I got notifications when someone replies, I have to randomly check back here and probably miss a lot.
I would definitely agree that women are taught to fear a great deal more than men and that there is a disconnect between this socialization and gendered rates of violence. However, I wonder, maybe one of the reasons women are less likely to be victims of violence is because of this fear? If women are taught to avoid confrontations with strangers or to avoid walking home alone in “dangerous” neighbourhoods, while men are encouraged to live up to “tough guy” / “protector” expectations, maybe this would have an effect on their behaviours. These behaviours could end up with men in… Read more »
It probably would lead to some reduction like that. I think gang violence and crime-based violence also plays a part, I’d like to see stats of just your average Joe/Jill’s violence victimization and compare to those who are involved in crime.
“It’s not that women want to be rescued; they just don’t want to be worried about what’s going to happen next, and in a way that men don’t have to.” How dare you speak for other men and de-legitimize the fear many of them have walking down the street? I fear walking the streets alone due to the harassment and threats I’ve received much of it due to being gay. Men get raped by other men and by women and the video showing the male model getting sexually harassed show that men have to deal with that as well. Have… Read more »
Avern, I did address that this happens to men. And like you, I am gay, and there are places where “The closest I can come is my vigilance walking through an area known for anti-gay harassment, and that’s still not the same.” I have the same concerns you do. Saying it happens to women does not say it doesn’t happen to men, and vice versa. Men do get raped. No denying that. They get harassed and whistled at and cat-called. But I’m specifically addressing the risk of sexual assault as a possible result of street harassment, and that generally men… Read more »
Show me studies on the risks men and women face concerning sexual assault as a possible of street harassment, please.
People assumed that men were at less risk of being raped, but the more surveys that have come out that actually allow for the possibility of male rape by female perpetrators, the more we are discovering that male rape is comparable to female rape.
Have you ever stopped and considered that your assumptions are not true?
JJ’s silence speaks volumes.
Ratty, JJ’s silence speaks to two jobs and limited windows in which I can review comments and make replies.
What many surveys you know that show male rape by female perpetrators is comparable to female rape by male perpetrators? In all situations?
Please show us the serious surveys that show it.
Prevalence and Characteristics of Sexual Violence, Stalking, and Intimate Partner Violence Victimization — National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, United States, 2011
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss6308.pdf
On Table 1 it shows that in the previous 12 months the percentage of women who were raped was 1.6% and the percentage of men made to penetrate (which is a form of rape) was 1.7%.
Avern, if you’d like, I can point out the paragraphs in this study that refer to rape or “noncontact unwanted sexual experiences” with strangers as a perpetrator. For quick reference, go to page 6 and page 7, table 1. The only place where there are even close to comparable numbers in the “stranger” column is in “unwanted sexual contact”, defined on page 3 as “(e.g., kissing or fondling)”. That is the specific instance I repeatedly refer to here (stranger). At no point did I say that men do not get sexually assaulted or raped, at no point in this did… Read more »
I’m not sure how this supports your point. One of you’re rationalizations for why women should be more afraid of catcalling and leers than men is the greater possibility that they will lead to sexual assault, yet 30% of victims of unwanted sexual contact from a stranger are men which is a very significant minority, which basically means these things do happen to men and women. That’s not even taking into consideration that men are more likely to discount unwanted sexual contact as harmless.
This is clearly a issue where empathy is not being meted out fairly.
Avern, I’m stopping here. I’ve stated my points, as have you.
Thanks for this article JJ. I really appreciate that you ‘ve made an anti-harassment stand for women.