Now, can we have a serious conversation about the dangers of cat-calling?
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I saw a big debate erupt on Facebook a few months ago when one of my friends posted an article written by a woman who was tired of hearing things like, “Smile, beautiful!” from men on the street. Comments ranged from women sympathizing and saying how irritating and tiring random comments from men are to others said they didn’t mind if it was a compliment, as opposed to a honk, gesture, or some kind of grunting noise. (Really, who grunts? Does that ever work?)
Millionaires have asked if they could buy her. Not once, but four or five times. Businessmen have advised her to deemphasize her spirituality and capitalize on her looks to get ahead in the work world.
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I had a lot to say in response to the thread, but instead I held my tongue. It was too upsetting and personal of an issue to get into at the time. But I just got a text from my wife telling me it happened again, so now I have something to say.
My wife, simply put, is gorgeous. And I’m not saying this out of bias, it’s just a fact. She’s that kind of beautiful that actually stops people in their tracks. But even though she’s a looker, the best thing about her is that so much of her radiance comes from her incredible warmth and goodness as a being. It shines from her like a huge beam of light.
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Unfortunately, though, my wife’s attractiveness has actually been a huge hurdle for her in her life. From struggling to be taken seriously and seen for more than her looks to literally being followed down the street by dudes who “just have to talk to her,” she is harassed by men on almost a daily basis.
I wish this were an exaggeration. They try compliment her. They try to flirt with her. They ask her out. Millionaires have asked if they could buy her. Not once, but four or five times. Businessmen have advised her to deemphasize her spirituality and capitalize on her looks to get ahead in the work world.
A lot of people are probably reading this thinking, “Cry me a river.” But knowing my wife has given me a front-row seat to the sad price certain people are made to pay by a society that is so looks-driven. If you’ve never seen this first hand, think about it.
In reality, the protection that most women truly long to feel is not fueled by domination, but stability and love.
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You go to the grocery store and the checkout clerk just has to tell you how pretty your eyes are. The next day, a guy follows you down the street, saying, “Hey, beautiful!” Then at the post office, a guy walks across the lobby and says, “You have a great figure. I just had to tell you that.” (Did you? Would it have hurt you just to think it?)
And each time it’s on you to come up with a response that somehow politely acknowledges them, yet doesn’t encourage their advances. Or you can ignore them completely and once again hear them mutter “bitch,” or something even more colorful as you walk away.
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And she’s not a bitch. In fact, she’s the kindest person I’ve ever met. All of this attention actually makes her sad, because she wishes people would pay attention to something more meaningful than her legs, like making the world a better place.
Why do you think some women are so much more likely to talk to men walking a cute dog or holding a baby? It’s because, for them, that is true masculinity. Men and women, alike, have distorted masculinity into something violent, aggressive, and smarmy. In reality, the protection that most women truly long to feel is not fueled by domination, but stability and love.
How men talk to women is powerful. It has the power to heal, to demonstrate respect. And it has the power to do the opposite, to make her feel like an object.
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Conservative estimates are that one in four women has been sexually abused. Talk (really talk) to the women in your life and you’ll quickly realize it’s way more common than that.
Most of my wife’s very first memories of being in this world are of sexual abuse at the hands of a young male relative. Later, when she was 14, her first boyfriend raped her and goaded his friends into doing the same. Sadly, that’s not even close to her whole story.
Many women are taught early on that their bodies are toys for boys and men.
If you’re genuinely trying to start a conversation, maybe just smile and say, “Hi. I hope you’re having a nice day.” Then leave it there.
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You may think it’s polite to compliment a woman on how attractive she is. On her eyes, her smile, her figure. And you’re not wrong, if you know her. But when you do this to a stranger, what you may not realize is that many women will feel as though you are reducing her to her parts. You’re reinforcing—intentionally or not—that she should care what you think of her because you’re a man.
We walked up to a restaurant the other week and the maitre’d said to her, “Wow, I was going to say something about the smile, but now I see the eyes.” I looked over at him. This man didn’t really see my wife. He was speaking to her as if she was a thing. We turned around quietly and walked out.
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I don’t think most of the men who approach my wife or other women they don’t know are jerks. Politicians, high-powered lawyers, and foreign royalty aside, most guys are just trying to engage, and I know that can be hard, and scary, especially when tv and magazines give you such awful advice about what women want and like.
If you’re genuinely trying to start a conversation, maybe just smile and say, “Hi. I hope you’re having a nice day.” Then leave it there. If she wants to engage you back, she will. Then, when you actually get to know something about her, you can determine whether she, in turn, warrants your continued attention.
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Photo: Steven Depolo/Flickr
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@ Erin August 20, 2014 at 3:25 pm “Archy, her interpretation of how others are treating her is a valid point of view. A woman deserves to have agency to decide for herself when she is feeling objectified by others. You can hardly blame a woman from feeing objectified when a large pool of comments she gets from men have to do with her looks.” As Kelly says “For a long time, the advice we gave young boys nervous to talk to girls was, “Give them a compliment.” Now some women are upset at being complimented. Where’s the balance?” Of… Read more »
Pretty shocking to me how many men don’t beleive there is a problem because they personally haven’t seen it. You must not take public transportation. Most girls start getting flashed on the train when they are like 13. And honestly the favorite target in any case is a woman walking alone. I’m sorry that we don’t properly line up male witnesses when men act like beasts or things actually go dangerously when we ignore them so that we can be taken seriously. Ugh.
@ jgd333 I only recall 2 instances myself of seeing women street harassed. In both instances, I interceded on her behalf. Once because it was directed at a friend I was with and the other time was on a bus. A man was harassing the woman across from him. It was going on for like 15 – 20 minutes. Then the person next to her got up to leave. I had this intense fear that he would try and sit next to her and something bad would happen so I got up, walked over to her, and asked her if… Read more »
Men have been catcalling me since I was a teen riding the subways to get back and forth to school everyday…it’s disgusting…I was a kid on my way to school and they want a prostitute to play with… When I tell men to “F— off!”, they look shocked that the little Asian doll has a voice… Even educated, professional men at parties try to put their arm around me or say the most outrageous things to me even in front of my husband… It’s like the crazy flasher guy on the subway who is mumbling to himself and is about… Read more »
Just to share one of my own strange experiences, maybe someone might enjoy an analysis of it? I don’t exactly get catcalled often and don’t have the highest self esteem. Therefore on this one occasion I was slightly flattered, for a split second. Then I was annoyed. I had boarded a parked bus at the central station, to ask a quick bus-card-question from the driver. I was in a hurry to catch a connecting bus to work. The driver just stared at me. When I finished describing my card problem, he apologised for not paying attention because I was so… Read more »
@ Lisa I asked that question once. What about women who rarely or don’t get compliments? I also asked the question why then are women angry when after a certain age and the beauty goes away that the compliments stop? There was a woman at a counter who was not conventionally attractive. An older man walked up to her, conducted his business, and just prior to leaving told her that she had beautiful eyes. You could see her face light up and she said thank you. When this thing is argued. It’s always argued from the position of the woman… Read more »
You kind of answered your own question, in a way. Who says after a certain age that a woman’s beauty goes away? You? Other men? You get to dictate when a woman is beautiful and when she isn’t? After a certain age, does a man’s masculinity go away? Are you less of a man at 50 then you were at 30? Is a woman less of a woman at 50 then she was at 30? No, but this is actually how alot of men think of women and this is part of the reason when women are complimented by strangers,… Read more »
@ Erin “Who says after a certain age that a woman’s beauty goes away? You? Other men? You get to dictate when a woman is beautiful and when she isn’t? After a certain age, does a man’s masculinity go away? Are you less of a man at 50 then you were at 30?” Just like any man or person, I can only dictate what is beautiful to me. I’ve heard from many women that after a certain age they don’t get as many compliments as they used to. Guess what, neither do I. Did the men and women who complimented… Read more »
@Erin, Who says after a certain age that a woman’s beauty goes away? You? Other men? You get to dictate when a woman is beautiful and when she isn’t? After a certain age, does a man’s masculinity go away? Are you less of a man at 50 then you were at 30? Is a woman less of a woman at 50 then she was at 30? No, but this is actually how alot of men think of women and this is part of the reason when women are complimented by strangers, it can mean very little to them. You kind… Read more »
Also include the “masculinity” part in the rant above.
I’m sorry, but I guess my age must be showing… Carry on, nothing to see heer…
FlyingKal, how does a younger woman not seeing an older man as a sexually viable partner turn into a belief that older men shouldn’t have sexual desires? Why don’t 40, 50 and 60 year old men compliment 40, 50 and 60 year old women? Lets be clear, I do not believe a man becomes less masculine after 40, 50 or 60 either. I like that men can come into their own and hopefully do so with grace. Men however can’t claim the same affection for women a lot of the time. I see way more women show support for men… Read more »
Erin, how does a younger woman not seeing an older man as a sexually viable partner turn into a belief that older men shouldn’t have sexual desires? I don’t know. How does it NOT? The question wasn’t whether he has desires, but to what extent he was seen as having them. Just as you claim that men look at women after a certain age. How about 50 year old men actually find interest in other 50 year old women? How about woman actually finding interest in men their own age? Seems to they always want someone “older, more mature” until… Read more »
Are there situations where people are harassed? Yes. Is complimenting another person or trying to get their attention objectivity? No. Once they have spoken, if you reject a perceived advance and they react negatively that is their problem. While we can educate people on how to handle rejection and how to understand that they aren’t entitled, we can’t change that at the core of things we are sexual beings. Not everything is objectification.
I think what’s important is how we talk to each other as strangers (and men and women are both on the hook for this). Most of us likely can agree there’s a big gap between doing something like smiling at someone and saying you hope they’re having a nice day, and pulling your car over to tell them they have a great body. In between is the challenging space. Also, I’d like to make the point that we she be wary of generalizing certain behavior as solely the realm of men. I’ve seen many women who identify as lesbians objectify… Read more »
Guys get sexually objectified (street harassed) by women too It’s happened to me on numerous occasions when I was younger and a few times in the last 10 or so years. I’m talking 15 – 20 times over 30 years not daily or even monthly. I don’t believe that women are normally as bold about it. A female friend wanted to see Full Monte and later admitted that part of the reason was because of the nude scene at the end. There are women who crush on David Beckham or Justin Timberlake. I think they don’t look at it as… Read more »
“I wonder if men experience this more as being seen as a wallet on legs.” Have you read Men On Strike by Helen Smith? This is one of the topics she covers.
Thanks for the recommendation, Wes. I will check that out.
Message to men-
Don’t ever overestimate how many words women need from you, especially if you don’t know them. Usually, the amount they need is closer to “none”.
Message to men-
Not talking to women you don’t know can actually make your life easier.
@ Cynthia
“Don’t ever overestimate how many words women need from you, especially if you don’t know them. Usually, the amount they need is closer to “none”.”
I hope they remember that the next time they want directions, etc.
@ John
Seriously, you must know that a response to a request for information is not equivalent to being subjected to street harassment and objectification over and over and over ad nauseam. It is exhausting to deal with some days, and I resent the expectation that I reject every one respectfully, particularly when most “compliments” are delivered like insults. Some times us women are just in public because we have somewhere to be or something to do, not because we need to know what random men think about our bodies.
@ Donna I don’t have an issue with calling on men to be respectful to women. I think everyone recognizes that there is a difference between a compliment, a respectful approach , and disrespectful, sexist, or vulgar comments. I take exception to the idea that men should never approach a woman. I hear the argument that what a person WANTS is different from what a person NEEDS, but really do you NEED to have a guy push your car out of the snow or do you just not WANT to pay for a tow truck or wait an hour for… Read more »
@ John, ” I think everyone recognizes that there is a difference between a compliment, a respectful approach , and disrespectful, sexist, or vulgar comments.” This is the problem, many people who street harass don’t have a good idea of what is an insult. It is quite common for a street harasser to yell a “compliment,” and when the person being harassed doesn’t respond well, the next thing to get yelled is something along the lines of “I was just trying to give you a compliment, you bitch.” Don’t assume that just because you wouldn’t say that to a woman,… Read more »
That’s definitely not common at all. I’m curious where it is that people are living where this is common as it’s not something I’ve ever seen in any part of the world. I haven’t seen it in China or Europe or Canada. I’ve never seen it in any part of the US.
Seems to me that it would be more productive to recognize that this isn’t a common behavior for men and that either it’s being greatly exaggerated or it just doesnt’ happen with any frequency.
I have to say when coupled with the expectation that men will still be on hand to help when asked, the Schrodinger’s Rapist mindset looks even more suspect. I find it rather difficult to reconcile the idea that us men are just so potentially rapey that it’s ok to avoid contact with us when you please purely on the basis that we’re male – but it’s ok to request help when you want? How is that safe? After all, the man you approach for help still might rape you? And not only that, but seeking help with directions, a flat… Read more »
@ OirishM, This is not a black and white issue. You are invalidating the experience of 65 – 90 % of women in any given country. When women ask men to really think about our experience of being harassed, that does not make you a victim. It is a challenge to you to raise your awareness and meet a very reasonable expectation that women be treated like individuals with agency. It is a common reaction to feel defensive, but it doesn’t help. It may be true that some women say things you don’t like, and certainly some women say things… Read more »
That’s BS, if the numbers are that large, then how prescisely do you explain the fact that so many men have never actually seen that happening? Seriously, we can’t all be that thick headed and obtuse. The more likely reason is that it’s not anywhere near as common, but people like you encourage other women to misinterpret such comments. There’s also a huge number of different countries out there with different norms. What about Saudi Arabia where women basically don’t have any contact with men they aren’t related to? Do they really receive as many comments as you assert is… Read more »
I had a friend about 12 years ago who was abused by her alcoholic father. It wasn’t sexual abuse. It was physical, emotional, and financial abuse. It was weird to hear her talk about him. She would hate everything he did, but you could tell she still loved him. She grew up in poverty and was ashamed of it. She had no female friends and her relationship with men was based on her looks. She was terrified of gaining weight because she wouldn’t be attractive anymore. The guys she dated were all either 6 foot plus monsters or martial artists.… Read more »
John, I thought you enjoyed strip clubs yourself? You’ve mentioned that you do visit them on occasion. Why wouldn’t you support your friend being a stripper? “A lot of guys have been told that beauty is very important to women. You could debate the causes of this and whether it’s right or a problem, but it is often the reality. I’ve heard women say that. I think some men sometimes default to that. Let me compliment her on her beauty or let her know how beautiful she is by telling her how much I’d like to have sex with her.”… Read more »
@ Erin “John, I thought you enjoyed strip clubs yourself? You’ve mentioned that you do visit them on occasion. Why wouldn’t you support your friend being a stripper?” She didn’t want to be one. She just didn’t see another way at the time. As for the rest, I think you’re just not trying to understand me. I’m not saying men don’t desire or value beauty in a woman. I’m not even arguing against this being the core reason that women feel the need to be beautiful. I’m saying that because women believe that beauty is valuable to a woman, men… Read more »
Lots of strippers don’t always want to be strippers, John. Based on percentages, I’m sure there have been women you’ve enjoyed watching that didn’t enjoy being there on the inside. Actually, it’s strippers that tend to form more jaded opinions of men. They’ve seen a lot of stuff and they see a lot of stuff while men aren’t at their best. I’m not purposely not trying to understand you. You didn’t say anything about men and their role in how beauty is perceived. I still don’t think men compliment women on their beauty because they think beauty is important to… Read more »
@ Erin “I still don’t think men compliment women on their beauty because they think beauty is important to women. I think men compliment women on their beauty because of how he is valuing her.” Interesting concept although it runs counter to everything I was taught about “sales”. A sales presentation is usually based on what the buyer values not the seller. I guess that’s probably where entitlement comes in. A man believes that he is entitled to a woman so is merely informing her that she meets his standards except that runs counter to what I’ve come to understand… Read more »
“You may think it’s polite to compliment a woman on how attractive she is. On her eyes, her smile, her figure. And you’re not wrong, if you know her. But when you do this to a stranger, what you may not realize is that many women will feel as though you are reducing her to her parts. You’re reinforcing—intentionally or not—that she should care what you think of her because you’re a man.” Part of this though is HER interpretation. A stranger meets you, there is no possible way for them to know of your accomplishments, attitude, personality to the… Read more »
Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. I totally agree with you–there are so many reasons people say the things they do, and I agree that a variety of factors make up how we interpret different words and actions–many of them based on our own experiences, and what stranger can be expected to guess those? I think most men are in a really difficult spot where issues like these are concerned, especially those who just genuinely mean to be nice. For a long time, the advice we gave young boys nervous to talk to girls was, “Give them… Read more »
“For a long time, the advice we gave young boys nervous to talk to girls was, “Give them a compliment.” Now some women are upset at being complimented. Where’s the balance?” Yup, I remember growing up hearing ideas of complimenting women. I was always shy so I avoided it though I am kinda glad I did. I use to think a compliment would brighten their day until I learned that so many women get bugged quite a lot with it. I had some very attractive friends who told me about it where they were basically told compliments on their looks.… Read more »
Archy, her interpretation of how others are treating her is a valid point of view. A woman deserves to have agency to decide for herself when she is feeling objectified by others. You can hardly blame a woman from feeing objectified when a large pool of comments she gets from men have to do with her looks. You forget that women live in world where their looks are continuously made paramount over any other quality they possess, and yes, alot of men are HUGE enablers that support that world view. You can not expect a woman, basically being accosted by… Read more »
Ignoring the intent means the interpretations are necessarily questionable.
I know it’s fashionable to pretend that all reactions are rational and/or well-founded, but in reality….
I will repeat. Her interpretation of how others are treating her is a valid point of view. A woman deserves to have agency to decide for herself when she is feeling objectified by others. If something is happening to her that makes her feel objectified, it doesn’t matter what the intent of the other person was. The treatment is not positive for her and since the treatment is happening to her, she has the right to ask for it to stop or to voice awareness about the problem in a respectful way. I remember an article on this website about… Read more »
You can certainly decide when you are in opinion feeling objectified, but that does not mean you can make any definite claims about the intentions of the men, which is what you did in the post I responded to.
Your personal, subjective reactions are, well, just that.
Oirish, *YOU* can’t even make any definite claims about the intention of any one man just because you are aman. Your comments are personal and subjective as well.
The fact remains, your intentions to not negate you from having responsibility in how you treat others. The people who asked rude questions about the woman’s mixed-race children don’t deserve a free pass just because they had good intentions.