First dates can be collaborative efforts, but the man who wants to take charge should know how to take charge. Here’s how.
Surprise, surprise. There are women who want us men to be leaders on dates, even in this independent-women, Beyonce/Miley/Jennifer Lawrence post-modern age. Consider what many women find seriously unattractive on a first date:
… You mindlessly ask her, “Where should we meet?” or “What do you like?”
… You follow her suggestions for the date without any opinion.
… You are stubborn about following your plans no matter what, despite her discomfort.
… You are deathly quiet with her and don’t express much at all about anything.
… You don’t take care of the check on this first date.
… A stranger bumps into her in a rude way, but you don’t speak out and defend her.
… You don’t take her hand while crossing a street or walking around a crowd.
… You don’t call her to see if she arrived home safely.
These aren’t just failures in dating but also in leadership. One way to define a good leader is to ask, “Is anyone following him?” If the young, attractive female person doesn’t want to be with you, then you may have not been a good leader to her.
Taking the baton from the idea above, one lesson for both leaders and dating men is to make it difficult to NOT be with you.
I often advise guys to ditch the traditional dinner date and go with something simple and sweet, like hot chocolate, cappuccino, tea, ice cream, cheesecake, cupcakes, pastries, etc. Go on Yelp, find the very best of each venue in your town, and keep them in your notes. You now have a go-to list for first dates, all of which women generally cannot resist. Pick one you like yourself. For myself, I strongly, strongly prefer cheesecake.
My simple date request would then go like, You wanna meet me for cheesecake this Saturday afternoon? It’s this tiny corner place but has been around forever, has never failed me. A traditional dinner date might be long, dry, and fatally awkward with no room for escape until the meal is over. But sharing a slice of heavenly dessert presents itself too difficult to reject for most single women. Plus, it’s cheaper than dinner and takes less time, too. Hell, I would go on a dude-date over cheesecake, even though I’m not into dudes.
So remember. A good man on a date is not much more than being a good leader, making sure it is easy for her to be with you. You don’t have to be Richard Winters from Easy Company, because this isn’t Bastogne. It’s dating and the woman, when treated right, will follow you.
Originally appeared at justcallher.com
Photo MTSOfan Flickr
I heard this morning on the Today Show that Feminism was dead. So that kind of explains this article. Men are not only allowed to be leaders again, but women are demanding that they be leaders. Unfortunately, during the War of the Sexes my career during my peak career building years suffered a fatal wound from which it has never recovered. While the death of feminism makes me feel a bit vindicated it does nothing to restore or rehabilitate my career. Thank you Betty. Thank you Gloria. At least my sons won’t feel constantly under attack.
This set of edicts reads like yet another misguided chapter in the general reconstruction of the “bad, old South” of masculinity. The enlightened and benevolent editor leads this project of changing the bad old days with a slow slog towards some unbeknownst territory of sexual and emotional correctness. This whole website and project is absurd; as exemplified in the microcosm of this article. Perhaps this this the most telling passage: “So remember. A good man on a date is not much more than being a good leader, making sure it is easy for her to be with you.” Wait, what?… Read more »
Sadly JCH what you are referring to is chivalry and chivalry is dead and feminism killed it.
So women are like horses to be led to a trough? Pathetic. And it’s not brain surgery to think about a coffee and cake date instead of a full blown meal, anyone with a brain cell can think of that
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O WELL SO MUCH FOR THE DISCUSSION NO ELSE IS HAVING
I’m going to chime in here: I actually agree with everything the author wrote. Am I capable of standing up for myself? Yup. But I love knowing that my husband would anyway. When my husband and I were dating, could I have paid my own way (or for both of us) on the first date? Yup! But I like that he insisted on paying, even when our date wound up making a few more stops than planned and cost more than expected. If the first date is coffee and dessert, that’s fine…it doesn’t have to be expensive. (And for the… Read more »
Ok Crista to what extent are you willing to cede the leadership role to your man. Who is the primary breadwinner in your household? If its you (which I doubt) he’s not paying for too many dates any more and how much of a “leader” is he now? If he is the primary breadwinner it is because you have supported him in that role and that is a leadership role. The general philosophy of this article is fundamentally contrary to feminism. So what is it. Is feminism and have all the laws passed to support feminism, all the affirmative action… Read more »
This is yet more completely bogus and antiquated “advice”. It belongs on “Art of Manliness” or something, not here. This is all good advice if you were courting in the 50’s or something, but it isn’t going to fly in the 21st century.
I’m not dating to “Lead” anyone, and I’m not going to do it. I’m dating because I want to find an equal partner, not a junior partner. Good God is the advice this guy gives a steaming pile of crap. It’s almost, but not quite as bad as the shit that gets shoveled by Elite Daily.
Wow a lot of hostility to this post. I don’t think this needs to degenerate into an argument about feminism. I think as a rule, everyone likes a partner who is interesting and actively engaged rather than passive and disengaged. For men, it’s not about showing “leadership” on a date it’s about being an active participant, being mentally present and having ideas and opinions. Yes women like that. And yes women like to feel like women and men like to feel like men. If you want to be successful with the opposite sex you can do what it takes. If… Read more »
Well, Jen, the rules have changed. Men really didn’t want the change, but feminism has shoved the changes down men’s throats. If the rules suggested in the article were universally accepted and the roles of men as leaders remained intact even after the courting period perhaps this would be a bit easier to accept, but you can’t really have it both ways. If you want men as leaders then they will remain leaders through the courting period, commitment and marriage and that will mean acquiescing to men’s career goals otherwise you have this schizophrenic relationship whipsawing between leader and follower… Read more »
I said it’s not about leadership it’s about being an active vs passive partcipant in the relationship. I don’t agree that you need a leader and a follower, I think relationships can be equal. A lot of men in my experience make a poor first impression on women because they are passive and seem to struggle for ideas and have little to say. That is not attractive. Men have similar conplaints about women for what it’s worth.
Now pay attention: Here’s the listicle of do’s and don’t for you to slavishly follow so I can feel like that swooning woman on the cover of all those romance novels being ravished by that leaderly Fabio looking dude. >>> If you know anything about BDSM (hypothetically, of course) – this is a well recognized phenomenon called “topping from the bottom”. In fact, some BDSM theorist types would tell you that the bottom is really ALWAYS in charge, and that the top is the real slave in the shared scenario. Be that as it may, it’s fascinating to watch as… Read more »
I would love to be lead like this on a first date. There is nothing too hard about this surely? Is it really that hard to suggest a place for a date? And treat me like a lady by checking if I got home ok? I don’t want to be treated according to my gender at work. That is sexist. I do want to be treated according to my gender on a date. Because this is where gender matters still in our society. However if I asked him out I would be happy to suggest the place and time and… Read more »
Awoman says: Why is it so bad to make me feel like a woman? Doesn’t it make you feel like a man? How sad. >>> Let me answer that question for you. For the past 40-50 years ago, the thought leaders like St Gloria lived by the mantra that “a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle”. So while it USED to be a (het) man’s job to “make me feel like a woman”, those rules were superceced. Women don’t need men – or (perhaps more accurately) – SHOULDN’T need men, to feel like women at all.… Read more »
Hi Randy, Women who endorse first-wave feminism (AKA extreme egalitarianism) certainly exist, but I would argue that the philosophy has evolved over time and not all women support this, nor even the majority any more. The best recent definition of Feminist that I’ve heard is this: A person who believes in the social, political and economic equality of the sexes. Note that this definition says NOTHING about sexual equality, because sexual equality is complete bullshit. Equality has no place in the bedroom. Certainly not my bedroom. And guess what a first date is? The first step in the transition to… Read more »
The best recent definition of Feminist that I’ve heard is this: A person who believes in the social, political and economic equality of the sexes. – See more at: https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/how-leadership-failure-is-dating-failure-for-men-grgs/comment-page-1/#comment-1602149
Well, Dan first of all the one thing certain about the definition of Feminist is wait a few minutes it will change. As you indicate it involves social equality. Doesn’t social relationships encompass sexual relationships? In order for a man to be a leader in the bedroom he must be permitted to be the leader outside the bedroom.
So say you marry this leader and you are treated like an equal at work and you get an opportunity to advance your career, but it requires you to move several hundred miles from where you and your leader husband live and to do so would be detrimental to your leader husband’s career presumably you will acquiesce to your leader husband’s career and forego the opportunity presented to you because after all your husband is the leader and you will follow even if that may not be completely in accord with feminist philosophy, right?
Thanks god there are man like this out there. Yes, I am independent women and I still want to have a leader next to me.
Wait, women have to be lead? They can’t find their way on their own? So when my ex wife asked if I would abandon my fledgling career to accommodate a career opportunity for her I should have said, “Sorry, honey, its nice you have a job, but I lead, to hell with that silly opportunity you have, we are staying right here,” instead of what I did do and that was move several hundred miles from where I had laid down career roots resulting in literal career suicide for me, to pursue an opportunity for my wife that turned out… Read more »
Your argument against feminism here is based entirely on what this article–citing no evidence–claims women like. Think about that.
I am assuming what the article asserts is true (may be an incorrect assumption, but what is the point of the article if what is asserted is not intended to be assumed to be true) and I am trying to reconcile the assertions of the article with very fundamental arguments of feminism. They seem to be a bit in conflict. Thus the question, help me understand.
Wait a second. I thought we live in gender equal society. Why is one gender presumed to “take the lead” on anything in a gender equal society. Many men have suffered lost opportunity in the interest of “leveling the gender playing field”. What is this BS? I am terribly confused. Help me understand this taking the lead thing in a gender egalitarian society.
(1) Only heterosexual men believe we live in a gender equal society. (2) The “lost opportunity” you are talking about is MRA nonsense which is not backed by any actual facts. (3) “This BS” is what happens when someone starts with a pre-existing idea of masculinity and then invents straw women to justify it.
Isn’t the point of feminism to create a gender equal society. If one leads and the other follows doesn’t that inherently mean that the society is not gender equal? How does this preference by women for male leadership square with feminism? The spots at Harvard, Yale, Columbia et al that went to women, instead of equally qualified men, who ended up “opting out” by not entering the competitive work force and marrying men of means is what I am referring to as opportunity lost. Or how I acquiesced to my now ex wife’s career opportunity at the expense of my… Read more »
LOL, seriously. I take it you haven’t been to college lately . About 2/3 of the slots are going to women, you can’t seriously suggest that this doesn’t represent a loss of opportunity. I went to college and by and large the schools weren’t shy about making sure I felt as guilty and unwelcome as possible. And let’s not forget about the million men that are currently on the hook for raising somebody else’s child that their girlfriend/wife swear’s they’re responsible fore even though somebody else is the father. I’m sure somehow they haven’t lost out on opportunities so that… Read more »
2/3rds of the slots are going to women. Going to? They are the only ones APPLYING. If there were truly such a nefarious plot to “Give” slots away, I wouldn’t have gone to a school with less than 15% of it’s total student body being non-white, in a state where over 50% of the population is non white. And it was the same at all levels of school, and across many campuses. No your idea that these spots are being given to women is wrong. Further proof is, Incoming freshmen class 55% women, but by the time you get to… Read more »
When it was women that were only getting a third of the slots that was an outrage, but somehow the standards are different now that it’s men. I’m sorry, but I don’t understand how it isn’t a problem. As far as graduation rates, go, same thing, there’s tons of hand wringing over getting more and more women into STEM careers, but very little concern over the precipitous drop in male enrollment over the last decade. As far as flunking out goes, I wouldn’t recommend making that assumption. Some of them do flunk out, but there are other factors, such as… Read more »
Who are these “many women”? Do you have a source? Without any information backing your assertions about what women want, it just sounds like you’re making up women whose desires suit your ideas of masculinity.
Indeed. Considering how judgmental women can be on the first date, how are we supposed to know how to lead a complete stranger. Granted if you met her on an online dating site you’ll have a few hints. Seems like more rationalization for women that behave badly. That list doesn’t appear to me to reflect a “independent-women, Beyonce/Miley/Jennifer Lawrence post-modern age” woman. This appears to reflect a spoiled princess that wants to have it both ways. If she’s really so “independent” then why can’t she say something to the stranger or get home safely? It seems like awfully poor judgment… Read more »
So JCH is basing dating advice on the desires of nonexistant, hypothetical women, and nowj Frank is gettin angry at the nonexistant, hypothetical women for being “spoiled”. I have a revolutionary idea: how about we ask actual women what they like, and then respect them?
Nice to see an apologist making condescending, judgmental comments. And no, they’re not non-existent, they definitely do exist. It’s rather ludicrous of you to suggest that they don’t exist without any evidence. Bottom line is that if you could have gotten over yourself long enough to actually read my comment you would have seen the qualifier in there. But, clearly it’s too much work to actually read what you’re commenting on. BTW: I’m not angry, but you’re very clearly delusional if you think these sorts of women don’t exist and that the author of the post isn’t giving them encouragement… Read more »
Matt, that has been done and many of the suggestions that JCH makes have been made in the popular literature. If this is the way women feel then what of feminism? How do you reconcile these wishes, this philosophy with that of teminism. Feminism is not a philosophy restricted to the work place. Get Real.