What if straight men are more afraid of similarities than differences?
At the risk of being the sixteen-millionth writer to do so, let me begin a column by quoting a dictionary, or in this case Dictionary.com, wherein “phobia” is defined as:
A persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.
Now let me ask the question whether straight men that have been deemed “homophobic” fit the above definition, because I think there is one section of the above that suggests the term might be a misnomer for some hetero fellas … maybe even the bulk of us.
Now before you skip down to the comments section and flame me (all puns intended), let me make it clear. One would have to be morally bankrupt, politically incorrect and inherently disingenuous to deny that there are those in this world who dislike all homosexuals for the very fact that they exist. But that’s hatred and bigotry, which may or may not necessarily stem from fear. And there are certainly some who have their religious issues with the gay lifestyle. But again, that’s driven by intolerance and indoctrination as much as fear.
But what of the great majority of straight men? You know, the ones who do not lash out at homosexuals as a way of burying their own inner urges to find a public men’s room and take a “wide stance?” What of the “average Joes” who don’t know a lot of “average moes,” have never been hit on, groped, or accused of bi-curiousness, and simply have a creeping suspicion that there’s something to be afraid of in the dugout of the other team?
Wouldn’t you agree that such men are the ones who suffer from what one would most commonly term “homophobia?” After all, they certainly have a persistent fear of a specific “activity” (and “situation”) that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it. It’s why more straight men don’t go to gay bars despite the fact that they would have much less competition for the drunk women they’d find there.
But I’ve left out a word in the previous paragraph, and that word is “irrational.” Is the fear straight men feel towarsa their gay counterparts truly irrational?
In a sense, yes. Of course it is. TV series like Oz and movies like The Shawshank Redemption and Deliverance have given us breeders an unrealistic mental image of how helpless we’d be if a homosexual hulk decided we had a pretty mouth. The fact is, I’ve spent most of my adult life going to school with and working alongside openly gay men, including years of doing theater on both coasts, 11 months waiting tables a block away from the Geffen Playhouse in Westwood, California, and a decade in the entertainment business. I’ve been hit on, legitimately, twice, and never once did I fear for anything except hurting the fella’s feelings. I was never cornered or roofied or tricked into sharing a tent during a cattle drive.
I’m not saying those things don’t happen. But they’ve never happened to me, or anyone I know, and I feel confident they never will as long as I don’t head to jail or go on any ill-advised canoeing trips with Ned Beatty.
But on the other front, what if homophobia has as much to do with the perfectly rational—and one might suggest “empathetic”—process of straight men actually relating to gay men and realizing that, at their core, they are just men.
Simply put, we men know what we’re capable of and what we’re driven by. Put Wonder Woman’s golden lasso around a straight man and he’ll admit that, ever since that first middle-school in-class boner that kept him from standing up and doing a math problem at the chalk-board, he has been a somewhat-willing slave to his sex drive. Every woman we meet and find the slightest bit attractive is seen as a potential partner and immediately imagined naked. What’s even more shocking is that almost every woman becomes “the slightest bit attractive” if you’re around her often enough. Our masturbation fantasies, if catalogued, would look like a yearbook that starts around seventh grade and runs up through our interaction with the Starbucks barista this morning. Our spank banks are the only ones that are actually returning interest these days!
We write articles—on this very site sometimes—about how we can’t help it, how we are biologically predisposed to spread our seed and reproduce with as many partners as possible. In short, we men know exactly what we are. We are, on some base level, life-support and transport systems for a penis and two testicles.
So when a straight man is told he has nothing to fear from a gay man who might see him naked in the gym steam room or his army barracks, it doesn’t compute. Not because we think the gay guy is so different from us, but because we know he’s the same. He’s a dude! Without even trying, we identify with this hypothetical homosexual and admit to ourselves, “Man, if I were suddenly allowed to hang out in the women’s locker room, there’s no way I wouldn’t be getting busy!” And when perfectly reasonable people point out that gay men are attracted to, well, other gay men, we laugh out loud. We know that there’s nothing more attractive than a woman who doesn’t want us. Ever seen a guy who thinks he has a chance with a lesbian? It’s like watching Ahab spotting a white fluke on the horizon. We identify with the gay man too literally and assume our homosexual counterparts must feel the same way. We simply cannot help putting our straight feet into a gay man’s shoes, even though that act is what eventually causes the anxiety. Doesn’t that sound rational? Doesn’t that mean the “phobia” label may not fit?
♦◊♦
Obviously, the fear of homosexuality isn’t productive for us, as a society, or as a gender. With any luck, it’s on the wane as more and more states move towards gay marriage and other same-sex equality measures. But before we call it a phobia, let’s at least consider that it might be a fear that springs, in part, from a rational place. A place where the straight man’s mind leapfrogs past centuries of emasculation and name calling—fairies, pansies, nancy boys—and acknowledges the truth; that gay men are, at their core, just men. And while that doesn’t solve the problem, at least it might suggest a potential platform for fear to be replaced by empathy, understanding, and real acceptance instead of social tolerance.
Until that day comes, let me say this to all of my heterosexual brethren. We have nothing to fear from our gay brothers. They wish us no ill. They pose us no threat. We are truly safe and secure … in their spank banks. That may make you uncomfortable, but it also leaves you totally untouched.
—Photo tinou bao/Flickr
Homophobia is a category of fear, yes. But it is not the fear of homosexuality or of homosexual people, as is commonly believed. Homophobia is the fear of being perceived as gay or lesbian yourself. It is the fear that somebody might “get the wrong idea about you”. It is homophobia, then, that accounts for faggot jokes and gay bashing. Those who perpetrate these are merely taking extremes to remind or convince everyone else that they are not homosexual. Often, the less secure an individual is about their own sexual identity, the more likely they are to tell the jokes… Read more »
Discriminating against and/or bashing, and/or treating with disrespect ANYone is wrong, most especially if they haven’t harmed your or yours personally. So, we are on the same page with that. However, not a single major dictionary indicated that homophobia is: “is the fear of being perceived as gay. . .” Hence, that is not the definition. However, let’s test your theory: “In the context of having other men look at you in the locker room, if you fear being perceived as gay you will be uncomfortable.” If that is true, why do most women object to having random men look… Read more »
Here is where I can see his point. Lady in the locker room. Man enters looks at her. She is aware that her gender presentation affects him. She believes he’s straight and attracted to women. She may feel uncomfortable for various reasons from threat of ill treatment/objectification to wondering why he’s attracted to her. Man in the locker room. Man enters looks at him. He is aware that his gender presentation affects the second man. 2 believes 1 is gay and is attracted to men. I think two things could happen here. a) Man 2 is worried that something about… Read more »
“a) Man 2 is worried that something about him appears gay enough to attract the first man (and this would be projection on his part and a believe that a gay man would or should only be attracted to a gay man, and if he’s attracted to him…what does that say about man 2). b) fear of being treated/objectified by the man, the way men treat/objectify women (generalized treatment/objectification).” ? It’s got nothing to do with “appearing gay” any more than a woman not wanting to be seen has anything to do with a man thinking she’s attracted to him.… Read more »
What does it have to do with then?
It’s no different than women’s discomfort in being watched showering by random men.
What about men? Would you feel uncomfortable being watched by women?
Women generally don’t care to “watch”, as men do. As evidence, men far more frequently watch videos and view pictures of women undressed, secretly video and take pictures, etc. than the reverse.
“It most certainly is about behavior. “Enjoying the view” implies wandering eyes and some kind of staring… are those not actions?” It is entirely possible to “enjoy the view” without obviously staring. I’ve done it plenty of times. “Do you enjoy being watched by fellow straight men in locker rooms or showers?” That’s just it. They’re not watching me. We don’t enjoy seeing other naked men. I would prefer to go the rest of my life without seeing a naked man. I appreciate the fact that you would understand if someone is simply not comfortable showering with someone they know… Read more »
About the showers/gyms/locker rooms: we know how to behave in a situation that calls for restrain just as any human being does. Imagine this: an art class that requires live nude models. You’re painting with a group of people. You KNOW it would be inappropriate to engage in a sexual mindset in this particular situation. Your advances would not be well received and you are required to show respect to the people you’re painting because while they are nude and you might find them attractive, it is not an appropriate setting for that kind of behavior. Failure to comply to… Read more »
“About the showers/gyms/locker rooms: we know how to behave in a situation that calls for restrain just as any human being does.” Behavior is not the main issue. For instance, most women don’t want to be observed showering or dressing by men, even they’re not present to behave in any way. “Imagine this: an art class that requires live nude models. You’re painting with a group of people. You KNOW it would be inappropriate to engage in a sexual mindset in this particular situation.” Why would it be inappropriate? The model doesn’t know your mindset? They only know your actions. … Read more »
It most certainly is about behavior. “Enjoying the view” implies wandering eyes and some kind of staring… are those not actions? I don’t know about you, but I dislike being watched showering or dressing in front of anyone but perhaps a significant other or another person with whom I share a profoundly strong relationship. Do you enjoy being watched by fellow straight men in locker rooms or showers? Assuming the answer is no, you’d still be in a situation where you’re socially obligated to be naked among other people, regardless of their sexual orientation. I assumed it was apparent I… Read more »
Good article. The term homophobic is typically used as a shaming tactic to force people who don’t like or approve of homosexuality for their own reasons to like and accept it or be considered mentally ill. That is no more rational and reasonable than labeling people who like religion for their own reasons as theophobic. As for the shower thing, I don’t see any difference between a homosexual changing and showering with men and a heterosexual changing and showering with women, assuming there is no misbehavior by anyone. After a while, it’s just a bunch of naked bodies that you… Read more »
Something that is, in fact a reply:
“The term homophobic is typically used as a shaming tactic to force people who don’t like or approve of homosexuality for their own reasons to like and accept it or be considered mentally ill. That is no more rational and reasonable than labeling people who like religion for their own reasons as theophobic.”
Considering the difference that there is a point to approving or disapproving religion whereas there is as much reason to approve or disapprove homosexuality as there is to doing for being black or left-handed.
“Considering the difference that there is a point to approving or disapproving religion whereas there is as much reason to approve or disapprove homosexuality as there is to doing for being black or left-handed.”
People have debatable reasons why they don’t like an individual religion or religion as a concept, just as people have debatable reasons why they disapprove of homosexuality. Lots of people would agree and lots of people would disagree on either side of those debates – unlike your analogy of left-handedness or being of African descent.
You can have debatable reasons to disapprove of being black or left handed, they’d just be pointless, seeing they’re unchangeable unavoidable facts, just as homosexuality is and religion is not.
Come on, no debate on being black and its implications? Are we ignoring history now? I think the analogy works just fine.
Sorry, the analogy doesn’t work. Try another. My “left handed” father in law has used his right hand as his favored side all his life because they told him to. I have a friend of a friend who lived as a homosexual but later in life (late 20s) decided to quit that lifestylemarried a woman, and now has 3 children. I also know a woman who raised her entire family, got to be about 60 years old, and decided that she was a lesbian. So, no, the analogy doesn’t work. On the other hand, as a black man, I can… Read more »
You’re wrong: look at Michael Jackson. See what I did there? I’m using an exception to explain a whole phenomenon. The word is fallacy. Your father in law is probably ambidextrous. I wonder how good his calligraphy is. Should we just force everyone to be right-handed and avoid having to produce specially crafted items for the lefties? And you say you can’t have a discussion about being left-handed (or black)? Sexuality is dynamic but utterly unconscious. You described a bisexual man, not a homosexual one. You described a woman who could be bisexual or lesbian; gay men can’t fake an… Read more »
“You’re wrong: look at Michael Jackson. See what I did there? I’m using an exception to explain a whole phenomenon. The word is fallacy.” Evidently, you don’t know much about black folks. We come in a variety of shades. My wife is just as “black” as I am but is lighter than Michael Jackson ended up, even though her grandfather is from West Africa. “Your father in law is probably ambidextrous. I wonder how good his calligraphy is.” According to him, he is/was left handed but was told to use his right. He eats, works, and writes with his right… Read more »
It’s true that the word phobia derives from the Greek word for fear, but phobic has also come to mean an aversion or a lack of affinity for something. For instance, hydrophobic in chemistry. In the Wikipedia article on photophobia it says: “as a medical symptom photophobia is not a morbid fear or phobia, but an experience of discomfort or pain to the eyes”. In this sense, all of the people who say they don’t like gay people, don’t want to be around gay people, are uncomfortable with gay people, etc. would fit this definition of being phobic. Homophobia, in… Read more »
Todd – I agree that the term “Homophobia” is not the most appropriate. It harks back to the days when the term “Homosexual” was not about sexuality but actually a Psychiatric designation of Illness. And that was not that long ago. I have even had to support gay men and women who have ended up dealing with Psychiatrists who were on the view that they were Psychiatric Homosexuals and to be treated most abusively. Thankfully I have not seen that sort of abuse for some 15 years – but I suspect there are still a few very dangerous and mad… Read more »
Calling a man a homophobe is just another way of shaming him in order to control the way he thinks. He either is labeled a homophobe or he denies it to protect himself but in doing so denies himself the right to feel and think freely. These names that people call men are the same as calling a black person a nigger. It’s a way of dehumanizing and keeping them in a place without respect or dignity so that the preferred group can have their way. Men are right to be disgusted by homosexuality. It’s genetic and to call someone… Read more »
It is kind of weird that Shawn feels the need to respond to every post. As if he were anxious about other people having their say. Control issue, much?
No… I mean yes… I mean “no comment”… kind of a no win thing here.
As for control issue, hope not. Truth be told, my previous columns didn’t generate much commentary, so enjoying this being a conversation and want to make sure readers know the writers do read their comments.
‘That “going” gets in the way – being gay is not like Hamlet and “To Be Or Not To Be”.
“Going to be” implies a choice – and from personal experience it’s not a choice it just is.’
You’re right. Technically and literally I should not have used ‘going’.
Aharon – we all live and learn! P^)
I find this article way too black and white, and simplistic. Use of the word -phobia is often used in a condescending way to block or intimidate what some people, in their opinion, believe is genuine criticism and it may simply be an uncomfortable response to a certain type of person. I’m hetero and I have comfortably lived with gay house mates. Those guys were cool. I can’t stand loud and obnoxious gay flaming queenie types who act (and maybe dress) like spoiled drunk women. If a man is going to be gay I think that’s fine. Just be a… Read more »
Aharon,
I don’t think it’s a simple subject and didn’t mean to paint it that way.
As for the question of homophobia, sounds like you don’t like certain personality traits regardless of whether they come in a male or female package… just glad you rejoined the conversation 19 hours later.
Thanks. I hope you don’t take my comments about the piece on a personal level. I wasn’t judging you as a man. While things still have far to go, gay/straight acceptance is so much better than it was 20-30 years ago. While there are still obviously insecure sexual hetero men and others brainwashed by an anti-gay religion, I just don’t see where this topic is still such a big deal. Then again, I have lived mostly in California and Oregon the past twenty plus years. Some straight men who are uncomfortable or critical with gays are of course motivated by… Read more »
“If a man is going to be gay I think that’s fine.” That “going” gets in the way – being gay is not like Hamlet and “To Be Or Not To Be”. “Going to be” implies a choice – and from personal experience it’s not a choice it just is. When I’m asked when did I first know I was Gay I say age 3. People are shocked and ask what I mean. It took until I was 14 to figure out a label, but when I was 3 I was aware that my sexuality and sexual aim was to… Read more »
I always wonder about the “choice” thing. More for women because of the “womyn born womyn” feminist movement that are what you might call lesbians by political choice. But nut cases aside, although I can see people like what they like, I do wonder if there might be more ability to vary by conscious decision than we think. You think of the proverbial “gay” Greek warriors of Thebes in a culture where that was expected. I wonder if in a thousand years time people will look back and consider us all very up tight and sexist for demanding that our… Read more »
David – I don’t think political lesbians of old, and even new, are nut cases. It is fascinating what some will rationalise and where that takes them. I have also found it interesting that Political lesbians seem to invariably only have other Political Lesbians as lovers, indicating that it’s all more a cerebral issue than a physiological one. I have often heard it described as the Cult of the Political with Lesbianism as a side issue for pleasure and even control. “I can see people like what they like, I do wonder if there might be more ability to vary… Read more »
I have to declare an interest and potential conflict of interest – I’m Gay! Over the years I have had to deal directly with straight men who assumed that I would find them sexually attractive. I’ve done Gyms, locker rooms and many other venues where nudity happens. On each occasion I have simply asked “Why do you think I would find you attractive?”. That usually gets the message across. If not, I ask quite bluntly if they will pleasure me and I give very graphic instructions of how I like it (sex) my men and where, and even when. That… Read more »
THANK YOU Mr. Hound… been waiting for the other side of this discussion to start. Love having the point of view and appreciate it.
Hope the homophobic jargon disappears and “humpbacks” catches on.
Maybe, if the topic of “spank banks” merits its own curated section on the site some day, we can have the GMP’s first “He Said, He Said” column together.
A library of congress for cross referenced and critiqued spanks? What a passion killer.
I don’t do dusting!
What. A. Load. Of. Crap.
Sorry, MediaHound, the singular largest fantasy in the gay sex industry, both in porn and prostitution, is the the guy you’re whacking off to or actually screwing is “straight.” And sometimes they are, often they are not, but the reality is, for a HUGE number of gay men, being able to “make it” with a “straight” is consider real hot. However, most gay men know enough NOT to hit on straight men, for any number of reasons, from losing a friendship to being embarrassed. But don’t peddle this bulls__t that gays don’t lust after straights.
BV, just curious if this is your observation, or personal experience. Not discounting what you’re saying as untrue, because I admit to having very little idea. Just interested in where you’re coming from on this topic.
Dear BV Evidently we have different views and understandings. Mine is based on a Life Time as a GAY man, advocate for equality, from dealing with such matters as changes in law, training on equality and diversity, working with Statutory agencies such as Police in addressing Institutional Homophobia and inequality, providing support to sexual assault survivors – and having discussed this very question with quite a few people over some 30 plus years. I’m just wondering what you have as relevant experience and knowledge in the field to state “But don’t peddle this bulls__t that gays don’t lust after straights.”?… Read more »
If we believe porn, then it should be norm that you’re probably cheating on your wife/girlfriend and in the event that she catches you, she’ll be upset for a minute and then join in on the fun. If not, you at least want to cheat on your wife with her best friend and would continue to have sex if caught and EXPECT her to join you. Bottom line, porn isn’t real life. You can get off on the wildest, kinkiest, raunchiest porn ever and still not desire that in a real life situation. “Oh, god, I got off on that”… Read more »
It would be interesting to hear what a guy who does get anxious around gay men thinks. That has to be a tough situation these days because if you cop to that people are going to assume you’re prejudiced, although I don’t think that need be so? Controlling undesired or inappropriate emotions is hard. I think that the analysis you did on trying to get into a gay man’s head and “what would they be thinking?” and so on… I think your analysis was wrong by the way but that doesn’t matter. If you are trying to figure it out… Read more »
David, Thanks for reading… and your first reply made me laugh aloud. Your second, I appreciated more, even if you think I’m wrong. I’m asking a question about whether homophobia has evolved in the average straight guy’s mind from a place of considering gay men to not be men at all, to a place that acknowledges they are men, and finds that notion cold comfort. I’m a married man, faithful for two plus decades. But when I was a single guy in college, if you’d put me in a woman’s locker room and told me I wouldn’t be kicked out… Read more »
Hang on a sec. Back up.
They have drunk women at gay bars??
Wait.
Women?
Bars?
Drunk?
Gay?
MY ENTIRE LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE.
Ha! Yes, I’m sure you are being tongue in cheek, but there are loads of drunk women in gay bars. Because we can get drunk, get our dance on and not get hit on! And we can voyeuristically watch hot men get it on.
…. and Boy can that ruin a good night out! It’s also terrible being told all the time that as men “What A Waste” and that immortal old chestnut “Why are all the best guys gay?”. I have even had to deal with that line – “All you need is to go to bed with me and you will be straight”. One particular bar in the Gay Village Manchester introduced a none policy of Zero Tolerance Policy On Sexual Harassment. You should have seen the screaming as Groups Of Women (mainly on Hen Nights – I think American Bridal Shower)… Read more »
Women can be quite I’ll mannered. I did say voyeur, right ? I’d never impinge just watch them dance. I enjoy witnessing sheer male erotic power when I know I’m not the object. Its awesome to behold and great that I’m not…. I do t know, needed? I love to be around men and it is rfeshing to truly be seen as a person not a conquest.
Interesting article, but that last bit was just disturbing: If all men are is walking hard ons, and gay men are genuinely sexually threatening and aggressive to straight men (in locker rooms or otherwise). What does that say about straight men and women?
I don’t think that the depiction is accurate. From what I’ve seen homophobes don’t fear gay men because they think they might be the same, they fear them because they are alien and other. And that kind of fear very very often turns into hate.
Peter, first thanks for reading and commenting.
Are men “walking hard ons?” No, as mentioned above, I engaged in some exaggeration for humor and to make a point. But we certainly aren’t so far from that depiction that it rings ridiculous.
The point of this is column is that gay men are NOT genuinely threatening to straight men… but that straight men worry that they are. As for whether straight men are threatening to women… well there’s been plenty of digital column inches dedicated to that topic on this site too.
This is what I find interesting. If some straight men associate the male sex drive with aggressive lust (always horny, always wanting to fuck, always lusting after people, being big enough to take what they want, as you said “what we are capable of”) , and those straight men are worried that gay men will act in a way that they believe all men act and view them the way the straight guys view women (seeing them as sex objects etc)…then aren’t straight women right to be worried about straight men? 🙂 And a terrible conclusion to that would be… Read more »
I’ve never thought about it that way. It doesn’t really change anything for me – there have always been a few gay men in the locker room, it’s just that they were closeted before – but your analogy about the women’s locker room made me think. If 10% of the people in the women’s locker room were heterosexual men, how would the rest feel about being stared at and fantasized about, never mind harassed and possibly raped. I haven’t worried about the gay men in my facilities before, but maybe that’s privilege? It would probably be privileged to say to… Read more »
Jesse B and Matt,
Appreciate the responses. Until recently, I hadn’t thought about it in this way either, so when I did starting considering it, felt it was a point worth exploring.
Enjoyed the article.
As a straight man who has never been ‘afraid’ or otherwise uncomfortable around gay men, I’ve never really thought about this issue in this way so it was quite enlightening. Thanks!
Pretty cool article for the most part.
I wasn’t a big fan of the whole “men are just a life support system for a penis and testicles.” I mean, all life forms are that way on some base level. Women just as much as men. The difference is that nature wants women to survive 9 months longer. But that’s only on the base level. Apollo 11 didn’t do squat to help with reproductive success, and out problem these days is too much reproduction.
Other than that, fairly cool article.
Thx Weber… admittedly, I was exaggerating for effect and humor on the life-support line and trying to turn a commonly-sued misogynistic trope back on those who use it .
But since you brought it up… did you ever see pictures of Apollo 11 sitting there, pointed straight up to the sky? Just sayin’.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
I’ve found that some of the most confident men in the world—those who seem outwardly confident, at least—often harbor deep insecurities, yes, about their manhood. That guy I remember from the next dorm room when I was in college—the one who proclaimed his success with women loudly and often—may have turned himself into a veritable cocksman just to prove to himself that he was a “normal” male. God knows, he never seemed to glean any pleasure from his conquests, only the ability to brag more and expand his tally of numbers. Once, when he got very drunk, he confessed that… Read more »
Agreed, Mervyn. Thanks for sharing your own experiences. I haven’t come across a parallel story in my life… either because I don’t know anyone that has had it happen, or because they haven’t been comfortable (or drunk) enough to share it.
I have heard my share of stories like that, mostly because I am somehow considered a safe person to discuss such things. A lot of men I’ve known have had homo social situations led to an actual sexual encounter. It’s a mind fuck for most of the ones who consider themselves straight and have not really explored what desire, lust, longing, mean and how cultural narratives fit over those feelings. I think, and this is my opinion of course, that there is a pretty strict binary in place for sex in common culture. Straight and Gay. Bisexuals are suspect. Lesbians… Read more »
Julie – “It’s a mind fuck for most of the ones who consider themselves straight and have not really explored what desire, lust, longing, mean and how cultural narratives fit over those feelings.” There is an old joke which addresses that issue. What is the difference between a Straight Man and a Bisexual? Six Beers! I’ve always found it so odd how many Straight Men when drunk will hit on Gay Men – but then again Kinsey was addressing that back in 1948. I’m a 6 but I know so many folks who run from 0 to 5. Fine by… Read more »
Three Drink Dyke is a phrase they use here in the US. People like fucking. People are curious about what other bodies feel like. Most people use college as a place to try a few things out but I’ve met more than my fair share of mid life lesbians (hormone shifts??).
We are capable of so much more than we ever let ourselves experience. Shame really.
“Someone said this on Twitter….”Homophobia: The fear that gay men will treat you the same way you treat women.”
Crap… if I’d seen that tweet, I could’ve retweeted and saved myself a few hours of writing.
Thanks for adding another gender/voice/perspective to the conversation, Julie.
I’ve never heard of that expression or of that happening.
Does that happen? Straight guys getting drunk and hitting on other men?
Not meaning to answer for MW, but I’ve seen it happen in spades.
@DavidByron – “I’ve never heard of that expression or of that happening. Does that happen? Straight guys getting drunk and hitting on other men?” Well I can answer that one very Clearly – “”YES””! Been there, seen it, got the T-shirt and had to take the poor Drunken Sots home and put them to bed – that is their home and their bed – alone. I was a perfect gentleman and neither peeked or groped, just left them face down on the bed fully clothed with a note to tell them what happened and who to call in the morning… Read more »
There’s a lot of room for women to differ, but no room for men. That accounts for your observed difference in bisexual people I think. If you are a man and you say you are bisexual then that is a very serious thing to say. You’re completely kicked out of the hetero club for that. For women you are not which would lead to more bisexual women being “basically hetero” or whatever the lesbian complaint is. And frankly, I think it has a lot to do with the “being like a woman” thing. No. I hear this from a lot… Read more »
David I don’t mean to shock you or other readers – but there is an interesting pattern of language and shifts that you may be surprised by. In the early days of sexology they coined the words Active and Passive in relation to male on male sexual penetration. The words were not just plucked out of the air they had very specific meanings. Active related to being actively penetrated – ie the guy who was being penetrated. It does take some action and focus let that big old number slip in there! P^) The opposite of course is Passive –… Read more »
🙂
I wish there was a handy smiley for “Chin Hits Desk!”. P^)
I think you must have misunderstood what I was saying?
Great article. On the dichotomy of fear vs. hate…I believe fear is at the heart of all hate and anger…No matter what the target of the hatred is.
Thanks Jake. I think we agree on most… specifically that you can fear without hating. But I’d suggest that while all hate has an element of fear, there’s a point when the hate is self-driving and the underlying fear has been obliterated or forgotten or totally integrated.
The people most often accused of homophobia are really homopathic–they HATE gay men rather than fear them. It’s just as irrational and bigoted, of course, but when they say they’re not afraid they’re sometimes telling the truth.
As for the idea of gay men fantasizing about me… ha! That honestly never occurred to me, and I doubt it happens in my case. There are much more attractive fellas out there to add to the mental inventory.
Definitely agree that hate and fear are not a necessary tandem… and that there’s a big difference between them..
Oh and don’t give up hope on the fantasizing thing.
I disagree, I’d argue that they’re inseperable and that one is the root of the other.
This piece was politically-correct, shallow, and boring. Good night to all.
Glad it at least helped you get to sleep.
3 thumbs up for that reply.
A straight man who fears the sexual advance of a gay man but not the sexual advance of, say, an unattractive woman is indeed acting with irrational prejudice. What’s there to “fear”? Do all men become predators once attracted? Let’s not confuse fear with discomfort. There’s no reason — none — to “fear” gay people. It doesn’t “come from a rational place” merely because all men are guided by sexual attraction. Fearing gay people, even if you share the same basic carnal impulse, is homophobia. And it’s wrong. Straight homophobes won’t overcome their prejudice by being able to rationalize their… Read more »
Joel, I think your first paragraph makes my point. Men aren’t “afraid” of being hit on by an unattractive woman (or any woman they aren’t interested in) because it never crosses their mind that the woman will become more aggressive or persistent. Men know that men might… because that’s what they’d do. Of course, I’d be disingenuous if I said that’s why most straight men are uncomfortable if/when a gay man expresses interest in them. Most men would react “Why does he think I’m gay?’ and that often sets off a very negative set of responses. But this article was… Read more »
“Straight homophobes won’t overcome their prejudice by being able to rationalize their fear — as I think you suggest. For the same reason, I don’t empathize with racists because, at our core, we’re all judgmental.” I have to wonder at that statement as I have seen the total opposite. I used to use a gym that was heavily used by some guys who were dancers with a National Ballet Company. First Point – I can assure many that Most Male Ballet dancers are not effeminate and are straight. It takes one hell of a lot of effort and muscle to… Read more »
The misuse of the word “homophobia” in general gives cover to bigots who can claim “I was afraid!” It also gives a negative association to people who actually have an irrational fear of homosexuality, by associating them with bigots, when really they need the same sorts of psychological treatment we give to people with other irrational fears (whether of white rabbits or of open spaces).
The misuse of the word “homophobia” in general gives cover to bigots who can claim “I was afraid!”
Very true, Nerd. Tried to be clear that I wasn’t talking about people who hate. Am looking for silver lining and finding it in the observation that mainstream straight men are identifying, albeit in a fearful way, with their gay counterparts. Maybe it’s a baby step… hope so.