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In sports, a scouting report is an evaluation of the players in which a team is interested. It considers players’ strengths, weaknesses, and skills, as well as “intangibles” like how they would fit into the team.
Since at least 2012, the men’s soccer team at Harvard has created a scouting report of its own—on the women’s soccer team. Instead of statistics on offense and defense, their 9-page report ranks their female counterparts as sexual objects.
I’d like to say I’m surprised. Really I would. I’d like to contend this is an isolated incident. Sadly, it’s not even unusual.
The women involved had this to say:
“When first notified of this ‘scouting report,’ each of us responded with surprise and confusion, but ultimately brushed off the news as if it didn’t really matter. As if we weren’t surprised men had spoken of us inappropriately. As if this kind of thing was just, ‘normal.’ The sad reality is that we have come to expect this kind of behavior from so many men, that it is so “normal” to us, we often decide it is not worth our time or effort to dwell on.”
What does surprise me is that Harvard took the unusual step of canceling the men’s soccer season. I wish I weren’t surprised by that. In a year where a multitude of men and women have excused “grab them by the pussy,you can do whatever you want” as “locker room talk” and something in which all men engage, it’s refreshing to see these Harvard men being held to a higher standard.
But let’s face it: the standard isn’t all that high. We’re talking about basic human decency, here. We’re talking about men seeing women as complete human beings, not as abstract sexual entities designed for male objectification and pleasure. We’re talking about a group of at least 11 men maintaining for FOUR YEARS a scorecard of the relative fuckability—because that’s what it is—of women they considered friends and comrades in sport and thinking it was a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
And culturally, it apparently IS a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
The truth is that these reports are routinely and gleefully published on the internet. “Top 10 Hottest Actresses in Hollywood,” “50 Celebrities with Ugly Spouses,” and my personal favorite “The Most Unforgettable Athletes in All of Sports,” complete with a crotch shot of a (most likely underage) female gymnast’s genitals exposed by a wardrobe malfunction.
Viewed in this context, it isn’t hard to discern why these men felt this behavior was acceptable in the first place.
Except, they knew it was wrong. Somewhere, deep down, they knew it was wrong and went on doing it anyway.
How do I know that? They kept it a secret, and when they were caught, there was a “failure to be forthcoming.”
That’s what the silencing of a conscience sounds like.
We all make judgments about the physical attractiveness of potential and sometimes implausible sexual partners. Whether you like blondes, get smitten by a dazzling smile, or appreciate a fuller figure, there are some physical attributes that make any given person more or less attractive to you. (Full disclosure: I have a thing for redheads and Mark Ruffalo. See what I mean about implausible?)
That we have these preferences is not the problem. The problem is when we reduce a complete human being to a single characteristic.
The men involved in this incident have now issued a public apology. They state that their actions “did not and [do] not reflect our view of the members of Harvard Women’s Soccer or of women in general” Then why did they write them down? The apology continues that they “take responsibility for [their] actions.”
But if that’s the case, why were they not forthcoming with the truth?
The women’s team offered their forgiveness, signing their statement, not with “Harvard Women’s Soccer,” but with the name of each of the six members of the Harvard Women’s Soccer recruiting class of 2012.
The men, who also stated that they “hope to guide conversation among the other athletic teams about sexism,” did not divulge their identities or sign their statement in any way. This begs the question: How do they intend to lead a conversation about anything while remaining anonymous?
You can do better, boys. And you should.
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Photo credit: Pixabay
I think I’ve come up with a good analogy of why the men were secretive, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they felt they did anything wrong (now, not saying they didn’t cross the line with some of the speculation. It depends on what it was and why. Someone may speculate that a person with full lips is a good kisser for example. I see nothing wrong with that.) Let’s say I woman hits me and hits me again. I have good reason to believe that she’ll do it again, but I refrain from hitting her back. It doesn’t mean that… Read more »
I get along with Erin, and I also get along with JDRoukan. Why can’t they get along with each other?
What is your opinion of this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3928916/Adelaide-s-Wilderness-girls-school-allowed-boys-objectified.html
I tend to agree that if it were boys, the collage would not have been tolerated and if the on-line slide show was discovered, not only would they have been severely punished, but there wouldn’t even be conjecture of how they were sanctioned (or whether. I’m nor convince that the girls even were). The on-line mob would have ensured it. They wouldn’t relent until they knew the boys were punished and were satisfied with the extent.
I would be happy to comment on this article. But I won’t do it here where it pushes away and distracts demo the topic here. Write your article about male objectification and I will be totally involved in that conversation. Because I support men and boys not being objectified. Can you claim the same about females?
Yep, that’s some good squatting on a men’s issues board there, but that is exactly what should be said to you, “go write on a women’s issues forum and I’ll support you, but don’t do it here on a men’s issues board, especially when it is men that now need our support and help, not to mention that this is (or is suppose to be) the only place where we can speak. Remember the slogan, “the conversation that no one else is having?” Good reason, becasue exactly this is what happens every time guys try to tell their story. it… Read more »
You can certainly draw parallels between the two stories. The girls were actually open in their objectification of the boys. You can male an argument that even the teachers knew it and least to an extent and though it innocent. There also hasn’t been any apology forth coming nor do we know whether the girls faced any sanction.
Men objectifying women IS a men’s issue. It’s so sad that you honestly don’t believe it is.
@ Erin Actually it does contribute a lot to the discussion and is quite relevant. Let’s say that you looked at the way both situations unfolded and say well there is simply a double standard in society that makes it OK for girls / women to objectify men. Let’s say that you believe that the double standard is wrong. That tells us where you stand in a sense. Now let’s say that you think that the administrators were right leaving the pictures up for several terms and the girls crossed the line with the commentary / slideshow, then we know… Read more »
John, considering the fact that I’ve seen you say objectifying women is okay, and have seen you defend men objectifying women behind their backs to bond with other men, I can only guess then that you equally are okay with the objectification of men right? So what exactly would you be offended about in women objectifying men? You support men objectifying women right? I have said a billion times on this website that objectifying men is not okay. It is not okay to do it at face value and it is not okay to do it behind men’s backs. You… Read more »
@ Erin “I have said a billion times on this website that objectifying men is not okay.” OK, so what does that say about the girls being open with their objectification while the men were secret about theirs? Lisa said that was an indication that they knew that what they were doing was wrong. I don’t think that’s true. I think they knew they would be punished and the girls knew they wouldn’t for the same exact thing. I don’t see that indicating a guilty conscience just who’s privileged in society. I never said that I thought what the girls… Read more »
So, an article about about female victims of male objectification is written, and men participate in the comment section expressing disdain and contention. Many women, I’m sure, read those comments and walk away feeling unappreciated, that men don’t listen, that men don’t care. Perfectly understandable, but only because the conversation is one sided, representing a fallacy that this is a one way street, because the male voice is neither heard or understood, so I’m going to make an attempt to bring that understanding, and I’m going to do that by mentioning one word, Lulu. Lulu is, or was, a very… Read more »
DJ – It’s simple. Stop derailing this conversation simply because you don’t care about the objectification of women. If you don’t want to talk about how women are objectified, you don’t have to comment in this thread. But when you purposely come into an article trying your hardest to circumvent any conversation in it because you have your own agenda that you believe is of more importance, that’s simply dismissive and disingenuous to this piece. And here is the thing you don’t seem to understand. No one is coming into an article about the objectification of boys and men and… Read more »
@ Erin
Why do you get to say what circumvents the discussion? There are a lot of things the article asserted. It talked about the school’s response. It talks about societal acceptance even after noting that the men did it in secret. The girls I mentioned did it more or less in the open, but we’re supposed to believe that the objectification of WOMEN is acceptable in society.
Just because you don’t like legitimate aspects of the discussion doesn’t mean you get to control it or silence other people.
I am pretty sure you do believe objectifying women is okay. Especially in secret behind women’s backs.
It is. Being sexually attracted to people is healthy. Making people feel uncomfortable on the other hand should be mitigated when possible.
P.S. If a website is getting funding through Facebook feeds, it is also awarding this behavior. Just sayin.
Sorry, should say “rewarding” not “awarding”
This is amazing hypocrisy at Harvard. “Harvard men rating Harvard women’s hotness online” is *literally* the origin of FaceBook. That is what Mark Zuckerberg started with in making FaceBook — guys comparing faces of Harvard women (Face) from a database of photos (Book). What those soccer players were doing with Facebook was exactly how Harvard men started Facebook. It was a campus tradition that spawned a billion dollar industry. It was not a “misuse” of the technology, it was the original reason for the technology. Anyone using Facebook today, including any feminist, is rewarding this behavior. Any apology on Facebook… Read more »
Good point, though I don’t think the “scouting report” was posted on Facebook. It was much less public than that, which is why I take issue with the whole lack of due process. The list was part of individual conversations that happened IN PRIVATE. Harvard is hereby declaring that people participating in college athletics can be punished for voicing sexual preferences in private conversations. Harvard is saying that students do not have the right of privacy when it comes to talking about sex in private conversations. Talk about tradition! It’s getting back to its 17th century Puritan roots.
I can see the important principles at stake here. The question for me is whether the actions taken are appropriate to address the problem. It seems like there’s a LOT of justified anger at the way that ESPN, Sports Illustrated, TV networks, and news outlets cover women’s athletics. I get that. Is cracking down on a Harvard soccer team really going to strike a blow against ESPN? They seem more like a target of opportunity. I guess for Erin my request would be to describe a model for valid disagreement. Would it be possible for me to disagree with aspects… Read more »
“Top 10 Hottest Actresses in Hollywood,” “50 Celebrities with Ugly Spouses,” and my personal favorite “The Most Unforgettable Athletes in All of Sports,” complete with a crotch shot of a (most likely underage) female gymnast’s genitals exposed by a wardrobe malfunction. That’s some pretty good righteous indignation there. I just looked up “most eligible bachelors”. This is what I found. The world’s most eligible bachelor is 25, a billionaire, and a duke . 20s: Evan Spiegel. AP Photo/Jae C. Hong. … 30s: Lukas T. Walton. Flickr / Mike Mozart. Net worth: $10.6 billion. … 40s: Sergey Brin. Re/code, Asa Mathat.… Read more »
@ DJ
That’s the game mainstream., progressives, play. They look for behaviors engaged in by mostly men, look for a reason to demonize them and ignore any other behaviors whether damaging to others or not.
The other side is when a behavior damages oneself. When women do it, it is societies fault and society or men in particular need to do something to fix it. When it affects men, it’s their own d*mn fault and they just need to man up already.
True that.
We get it. You…and many men here are not interested in talking about how men objectify women because men are the real victims…or because women are equally as horrible as men so it’s okay to never talk about how men treat us. Carry on objectifying us. Our new president loves objectifying and degrading women.
The country certainly has turned. I agree with that. Where we disagree is how it’s changed. Women are left out again. And sexism and racism has been celebrated and encouraged to unpresidented levels.
yeah, no. Can’t paint me with that brush as I’ve proven many a time that I fully support women when they need, as I did here by stating my opinion of the men that are represented in this article. My contention, as John Anderson so lucidly explained below, is the constant accusation against men, constant stance of the female as victim while we all comply with, as a matter or norm, the exact same thing occurring with men. it is exactly that extreme interpretation, or actually putting words into my mouth, attacking me rather then the argument (because there is… Read more »
In response to an article about how men were bonding with each other over their shared enjoyment of objectify women, which very much reflects a general pattern of behavior among men in society, you quickly dismissed that conversation in favor of refocusing it to what was a more important topic to you personally. Which was obviously men being objectified. Instead of addressing objectification and how it shows up in men’s lives when men perpetuate the objectification of women, you quickly maneuvered away from that. It would have been really encouraging to see you and the guys here tackle a serious… Read more »
“uneducated white male voters” You realize those people who qualified of “educated” is those are the ones who have had “college” education? As in all the white people who didn’t go to college by rather went to trade school and are responsible for maintaining the infastructure from plumbing to carpentry to electrical tecnician work. the white working class are ones you want to criticize? Higher education in the United States is ironically monolithic in its range of worldviews. Most campus cultures have an informally enforced dogmatic views about the nature of gender, sexual orientation, guns and the role of the… Read more »
“Uneducated white males” was not a shot at your intelligence. It was an honest evaluation of the demographic who voted for Trump. People, men and women, without educations voted for Trump. There is a reason for that. I myself don’t have a college education, neither did I vote for Trump though. I am part of the white working class! But I also think that alot of white people aren’t thinking about what is happening to minorities right now and I think a lot of white men aren’t stopping to considering what is happening with women. Why are you putting higher… Read more »
“which very much reflects a general pattern of behavior among men in society, you quickly dismissed that conversation” Yeah, wrong again. I’m dismissing such sexist, bigoted statements as “General pattern of behavior among men in society”, and the misanthropic attitude that blankets all men while holding all women innocent, even as women participate equally. Even here, what is suppose to be a men’s issues board, we are inundated with manhating. Let something like this happen and it’s front page, let similar happen from women and it’s crickets. Your failure to see how women objectify men, how we mistreat men, how… Read more »
Did you seriously call me a Russian Troll? Come on Dude, that’s just wrong. And it’s just bullying on your end. You want to think I’m this evil awful person that just hates men, who is sexist and a bigot? You want to keep abusing me verbally because you don’t like what I said? You can. But that’s a reflection of you, not of me. I don’t think you are a woman-hater. I don’t think you are a russian troll. I don’t think you are a bigot. But I just don’t see you as a champion for women either. Why… Read more »
My response was censored apparently. No biggie, I’m white and male, so I’ve come to expect that around here. Yep, sure did call you that, and I stand by it because that is what you are doing (that is just as bad as censoring guys), trolling a men’s board, disrupting, with an unmitigated gall, shouting down mens issues and mens discussion with “what about me”, “what about women”, constantly contributing to the stereotype of the male perpetrator, female victim. Not even this can be the conversation that no one else is having, being squatted on by every feminist or entitlement… Read more »
You’re responses aren’t censored because you are ‘white’ and ‘male’. Your responses are censured when they don’t meet a respectful criteria. Such as when you call me names, justify to yourself that’s okay and then are not able to take personal accountability for yourself or apologize. Ironically, this is the exact same behavior we seem from Trump. He shames people, he abuses them, he calls them names and then he doesn’t take responsibility for it. I know that you will never be a respectful enough individual to own how you attempted to put me down. Regardless, I most certainly deserve… Read more »
There was a time in this country when the deplorable actions of these men (and worse, far worse) would have been ignored.
I will NEVER accept Donald Trump! My Republican wife and I consider him to be an evil man. No, neither of us voted for Hillary Clinton. We voted for Evan McMullin.
“… while we witch hunt such males, …” Oh, please! Do “we” really do that? What about the attempts (usually successful) to cover-up rapes (usually gang-rapes) committed by high-school and college athletes in sports such as football? This has been gong on for decades. (Anyone remember a certain scandal at Notre Dame in the summer of 1974?) In the most recent scandal at Baylor University, according to an investigation initiated by the Board of Regents, since 2011 at the university 17 young women have lodged complaints of rape or abuse against 19 members of the football team. According to a… Read more »
That was 74 bill, now we do the duke rape case deal where any man is subject to Nazi like storm trooping. We just did it again to another frat house, where Rolling Stone Magazine tried and convicted them in the media.
When it was all discovered as false, did they go after the false accusers or did they vow to take down Frat Row?
Your backing the wrong horse here, but hey, that’s your choice.
We just did it again to another frat house, where Rolling Stone Magazine tried and convicted them in the media. Not just in the media. That frat was punished by the school as well. They were suspended from having any events for some amount of time. And when the truth came out the people who were calling for blood (even some of the people here I think) changed their tune to “well the dean was justified because the safety of women on campus was in danger.” But not a single one of them are willing to think about the fact… Read more »
For your information, I reserved judgment in the Duke lacrosse case. The district attorney who was involved in the rush to judgment was soon removed from office. Of course, that didn’t do much to ease the suffering of the innocents. Likewise, Rolling Stone is now going to pay the price for their involvement in the false accusation against the fraternity. You don’t know me personally. You know nothing about my life. So, please don’t make false assumptions about me. You don’t know me from Adam. In the Baylor scandal, a sportswriter who was sympathetic to the rape victims was harrassed… Read more »
The last two books I’ve mentioned above were written by Jeff Benedict.
The district attorney who was involved in the rush to judgment was soon removed from office. Of course, that didn’t do much to ease the suffering of the innocents. It didn’t do much to ease the suffering of the innocents because the innocents were still treated like they were guilty and the guilty was still treated like she was innocent even after it came to light. When the truth came out the people calling for the blood of the accused switched to calling for the blood of the DA without skipping a beat or taking the slightest moment to actually… Read more »
What about the vandalism to the frat house? That seems to have been swept neatly under the rug, right? How is the non-investigation going? The frat members reported having to go “underground” because of fear of harassment. That seems to also have been something “covered up”.
Those boys had to go into hiding. Imagine their surprise, to wake up one morning and see themselves the target of a witch hunt, a lynch mob on the way. Happens to boys all the time. There was one kid that refused to attend those rape accusation classes, simply stating that he is not a rapist, is not capable of such. He was hunted down, verbally and physically attacked, chased out of student union buildings to chants to “rapist”, “rapist”. The hate in this country, from profiling, to exclusion, to laughing at violence against men, diminishing of our rights, even… Read more »
Holly shit, Not sure where all that came from but I’m still looking for where I attacked you personally, and unless you are pushing 100, you have not been involved in men’s issues, or any others longer then I’ve been alive. I’ve actually been active, speaking, writing, even appearing on TV on such issues. …and If I don’t know anything about you then apparently I’ve confused you with the member of the same name that has conversed with me in e-mail and told me his story? Now, as far as the Duke case? Does not matter who was dismissed or… Read more »
I felt like I was being attacked. I wasn’t meaning to attack you. I was only trying to defend myself. The reason I felt that way is because I’m an insecure man. In fact, I’ve felt inferior for most of my life. (Thank God I’ve got a wife who’s devoted to me, and thank God we’ve got two daughters who love me very much – even though they’re much better human beings than I was at their ages.) I’ve felt like my masculinity has been under constant siege. In addition to that, my level of anger lately has been even… Read more »
That’s the Bill I felt that thought I’d previously spoken to, and yes, I understand perfectly. In fact, your post is the type of articles I expected to read when I came here; hearing men that have endured what you have speaking to us and opening the door and our minds to that very important discussion that no one else is having. There are more men then we care to realize that are out there suffering in silence because not only are we not addressing the issues, we are pretending that it does not exist, speaking of how we are… Read more »
I’m almost at a lack of words. In fact, I cried when I read your latest reply.
Thank you very much for your kind remarks. I’m quite honored by your praise.
As a man, I’m still a work in progress.
Please disregard the bungled mess that I posted late last night. Since I accidentally copied and pasted the same text twice, I had hoped it wouldn’t pass moderation. This reply is much better. It’s a lot shorter; and more importantly, it’s more to the point. Well, I’ve made a fool out of myself again. I was in a very irrational frame of mind and felt like I was being attacked. I was absolutely wrong. Besides, DJRoukan and I are in general agreement. So, I owe apologies to him and everyone else who has read this exchange. My anger level was… Read more »
Of course, I guess the fact that Trump encouraged anti-Semites and white supremacists to flock to his campaign is of no significance? The fact that he was endorsed by David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan means nothing to you? My wife is a Republican, but she opposed that miserable buffoon from the beginning. She’s not a feminist, but she calls him a fascist. America has reached the bottom of the barrel.
and Hilly encourages misanthropes and anti-white racists. Gender feminist only split with Neo Nazis in as far as whom they have in their cross-hairs.That is the problem, Bill. We are conditioned, all of us, to see the injustices dictated by special interest and the media, and blindly ignore others.
This article, again, is yet another example. When I have a minute I’ll explain that in detail.
I bet if there were a Harvard Fashion Club with a regular list of “Who Wore the Soccer Uniform Better?” we would not be having this conversation. That list would be considered campy, empowering, and showing how women can be confident and sassy.
There are such, and we won’t. That is the problem, and that is why so many men are pissed off today. it is why MGTOW exists, and as long as we allow such misinformation to continue, the divide will increase, and more then men, women will feel the pinch. They already are. I do read women’s boards, I just don’t piss all over them but take to heart what they are saying. They are being used in the worst way possible, by their own kind, and when feminism has finally stopped squirming on the ground and died out, it will… Read more »
I very much like what this poster (Alizia Tyler), on the website Ethics Alarms, has to say on the action and reaction from the women’s soccer team.
https://ethicsalarms.com/2016/11/04/ethics-quiz-the-harvard-soccer-teams-locker-room-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-411516
I must be some sort of gender radical weirdo, because I don’t think there should be separate sports teams for women and men, not in college and not in the Olympics. The best soccer team is the best soccer team. The fastest human sprinter is the fastest human sprinter. The growing recognition of transsexual and transgender rights is about to dissolve this stupid binary anyway, so we better start getting used to the idea.
For f@cks sake guys. Sexism and objectification are all too real. women experience it everyday of our lives. Outside our homes and inside our homes. We see our fathers, brothers, u clues, boyfriends, sons, husbands take some amount of pleasure in commodifying women for their own pleasure. This is a serious social issue that has grown with the advent of technology. If this election has taught me anything is how far some men are willing to go to defend, support and/or deny that sexism and objectifsction either exists or even question if it’s even wrong or deny the importance of… Read more »
Excellent article! I agree with every word.
Please don’t be discouraged by all the MRAs who post here.
What mras?
people who dont heap unadulterated praise on the authors. Apparently.
Yeah its hard to keep up with sometimes. MRAs seem to fluctuate between “people I dont agree with”, “people who are supportive of men”, “people who want women to be held responsible for their bad actions”, and “people who believe in the radical notion that men are human”, etc…
That is a pretty roset and positive picture you just painted about how MRAs are simply people (men) who are the real social group denied humanity and are the biggest victims of all. It seems to be in direct odds in how I’ve seen you characterize feminists. Can we ever talk about the nuances of men and how they objectify women though? Please let me know when we can have that conversation. If I know when to expect it, then at least I wouldnt have the false hope that maybe this time, men will be interested in examining how they… Read more »
That is a pretty roset and positive picture you just painted about how MRAs are simply people (men) who are the real social group denied humanity and are the biggest victims of all. Im curious how you saw that when that’s not the picture I drew. But it doesn’t surprise me when you see the picture in that light when you’re on a website that quite literally only mentions MRAs when its in a negative light or to make a negative generalization of them. It seems to be in direct odds in how I’ve seen you characterize feminists. You mean… Read more »
Danny, I reached that conclusion based on your own statements which obviously sympathize with MRAs. You said MRAs are just people who are either ‘people I don’t agree with”, “people who are supportive of men”, “People who want women to be held responsible for their bad actions, “People who believe the radical notion men are human….” These are pretty rosey statements to be made about MRAs – social justice warriors even. You then just criticized GMP for what you believe is how they represent MRAs. Are you not defending MRAs? I believe you when you say you’ve said a mixed… Read more »
Pretty much any article on GMP that dares risk even saying the word “woman” in it receives unadultered backlash. Do articles need unadultered praise? No. but it would be nice that they didn’t receive unaultered anger, baxklash and rejection simply because the topic includes women and many men here don’t ever want to talk about women as a legitimate topic. We don’t need unadultered praise but neither do we need unadultered backlash. Sometimes it seems like certain men here would be happy to strike the word “woman” from GMP altogether.
Thank you, Bill.
The men, who also stated that they “hope to guide conversation among the other athletic teams about sexism,” did not divulge their identities or sign their statement in any way. This begs the question: How do they intend to lead a conversation about anything while remaining anonymous? The whole team has been tarred and feathered at this point so there is no need to get specific names beyond making memes and knowing exactly which people to go after and continue to harass long after the fact. Anonymous people start and lead conversations all the time and calling for a name… Read more »
The people on the team were held collectively responsible and punished collectively, so how can people criticize them for speaking collectively? It’s fair when we punish them as a group, but they’re not allowed to speak for themselves as a group? Collective punishment is barbaric, but selective collective punishment is even worse.
The people on the team were held collectively responsible and punished collectively, so how can people criticize them for speaking collectively?
Extremely fair point and a question that should be addressed.
Collective punishment is barbaric, but selective collective punishment is even worse.
It’s a double standard to be sure. A clear case of, “We want to dictate how you are treated so we can switch back and forth between collective and individual depending on what suits us best.”
Ironically, the fight against sexual assault, racism, and sexism in college today is overturning much of the work of student protestors in the 1960’s. Millions of students marched and protested on campuses to reduce the power of college administrations over students’ lives, to fight for rights of privacy, freedom of speech, and rights from unconstitutional search and seizure. They wanted college presidents OUT of their private lives. What do these movements today keep calling for? More power to college administrations. They want stronger presidents and even stronger campus police with more power over student’s lives, even over private conversations they… Read more »
It is funny when you think about it. In the 60s students protested to stop administrations from having so much power but today students protest to give administrations power over the lives of people they don’t like. Look at Harvard. Everyone was gung ho on limiting and dismantling male only clubs and spaces but as soon as they realized that female only clubs would be affected people suddenly started thinking twice. There is a very clear element of “we want you to control every aspect of men’s lives so that they act according to our approval but dont you dare… Read more »
An anonymous admission is not an apology. This should have been signed by the members of the team.
They were punished anonymously as a group, so why can’t they respond to the punishment anonymously as a group?
I think it mostly depends on context. There was an article on Olympic athletes and their “packages” that was blasted in the MRM, but for hypocrisy of the response. I don’t see anything wrong with men discussing beautiful women. I thought about writing an article in my top ten female wrestlers. The top three: Dafney, Lita, and Trish Stratus are all gorgeous and I would have probably mentioned that, but who wouldn’t appreciate Dafney getting shoved through a barbed wire table or pushed into a bunch of thumb tacks or remember Lita coming off the top ropes being the first… Read more »
Now let’s say that for the sake of argument I decided to write a 10 hottest female wrestlers. Depending on the point in time, some of these women might have also made the list as the aforementioned women are also all conventionally hot and if they didn’t, what if I expanded it to 20 and then they did? The point being I can recognize Dafney is hot and still go OMG when she went through the barbed wire table. Just because my article didn’t list those things doesn’t mean I’m not cognizant of them. There were nude picture of Orlando… Read more »
First, a disclaimer: I have no extra sympathy for college athletes, especially ones at Harvard. I don’t even think colleges should have sports leagues like the NCAA. Do away with all intercollegiate athletics, as far as I’m concerned. But: am I the only one who thinks it was overkill to cancel the team’s entire season? The list was not an official creation of The Harvard Men’s Soccer Team. It was a creation of people on the soccer team. The fair punishment would have been to punish each person who published the list. Kick the guilty players off the team, fire… Read more »
I know Harvard has gone all PC censorship, but I’d like to know what rule they broke since Harvard isn’t above sexist rules for their favored sex.
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/28503/
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: “We are all equals, but some of us are more equal than others.”
‘Twas ever thus.
Punishment was warranted. I’m questioning the type and level of punishment.
Yeah reminds me of Duke Lacrosse. Three players accused. Whole team was punished by having their season cancelled and the coach was bullied into resigning. (And guess how many apologies were offered when it proven false?)
Finally, can we all please stop referring to objectification of women as “locker room” talk? It’s an amazingly inaccurate stereotype.
Agreed but clickbait and hype are more important than truth, fact, and context now.
If collective punishment is fair, and who knows maybe it is, then there’s a real question of where that stops. Isn’t the President of Harvard ultimately responsible? Fire the President of Harvard. Isn’t this systemic across college athletics? Stop all men’s sports seasons across the country until they all shape up. Perhaps this is a global soccer problem and FIFA should cease all men’s games around the world for a year. Out of solidarity of course.
I’m sure people will be supportive of that….until someone they approve of gets caught in the crosshairs.
Maybe that’s why they don’t want to go after Hope Solo? They don’t want to hold the entire team responsible….
I’m starting to rethink my “punishment was warranted” statement. From what I’ve read, there was no real due process set up to get at the truth of the matter. Consider what this means. Turn over a list of names of female athletes with gross sexual comments attached, say you got it from one of the men’s teams, and presto, end of season. They were on their way to a championship season — who in the entire internet universe could possibly have incentive to do such a thing…..? Lack of due process goes both ways, of course. Maybe this list was… Read more »
Lack of due process goes both ways, of course. Maybe this list was part of an even BIGGER systemic problem on campus with even more people involved, but we will never know because no one actually investigated fully.
Exactly. Lack of due process is a problem for everyone but since its primarily affecting men it doesn’t matter.
Trust me as soon as this happens to a few women it will suddenly become a hot button issue of misogyny that must be resolved NOW.
Karen Owen.