So you’re not outraged at Trump’s most recent revelatory comments. And you’re not ready to drop your support for his presidential bid yet either.
Cool.
Except not so much really. I was just trying to be polite.
So you still supported him when he described Mexicans as rapists, drug dealers, and some were, he’s sure, okay people too.
And you still supported him when he desecrated the honor of the military you claim to so vehemently support, when he said that Putin was a better leader than our current President. (You do see how that disrespects your precious patriotism right?) And as if that wasn’t enough, you still chirped your support despite his gross dismissal of veterans with PTSD. Remember that?
And he kept your support when he brazenly proclaimed that a woman must have been bleeding out of her whatever all because she had the audacity to refuse to acquiesce to his power.
You didn’t even have a problem with him saying he could shoot someone in broad daylight on the streets of New York and still not lose any supporters. Because…at least he’s not taking your guns away? I’m guessing there. I don’t really know that answer.
So not only did you stand, unwavering in your steadfast support of such a man, you actually proved his point. Good for you. Standing there, like a bulwark in the storm, clinging to the ideal of making America great again. What a country! Am I right?
When you support this man, you certainly create a certain type of America, but somehow I don’t think it’s the great one you think you’re going to get. It’s something different.
See, I’m a man. I was also a boy, and then a young man once too. So, I know locker room talk. I’ve made locker room talk, and I know for a fact that my mother and my sisters would be embarrassed (dare I admit appalled and ashamed?) by the locker room talk I’ve talked.
Can I tell you the difference in my locker room talk and Mr. Trump’s? It’s an important distinction. I can make it clear in 10 words or less.
I never talked about my sexual assault of women.
What? Is that even possible?
Glad you asked. Yes. It actually is. You know why? Because while I may have indulged my base urges in my speech, I never actually assaulted a woman. And I certainly never did it simply because I could get away with it. I didn’t do it even if I thought there was a small chance I could get away with it. Mind blowing I know. I guess I’ve always known the difference between having a sexual desire, and forcibly acting upon that desire. Imagine that. A man who knows the difference.
So you’re still not willing to withdraw your support?
Cool. Well, again, not really, but if you’re still standing behind this man, here’s some things you don’t get to do anymore in this America, as it stands right now.
You no longer get to be horrified at the bullying of middle schoolers or high schoolers.
You don’t get to say that a little boy shouldn’t be set on fire because he’s different from other kids.
You don’t get to hold your head in agony. You don’t get to shed your tears for those who cannot defend themselves from such disgusting attacks.
You’re supporting a full fledged, monstrous bully. You gladly sacrifice these rights on the altar of making America great again.
You no longer get to claim “all lives matter.”
“All lives” includes your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your nieces, your aunts, and…well, you get the idea. You devalue their very existence when you refuse to drop your support for a man who would willingly, hell, who would gleefully gloat in forcing himself upon them simply because he can get away with it.
You no longer get to weigh in on the subject of rape or rape culture.
You no longer get to be outraged at Brock Turner, and others of his ilk.
You don’t get to complain that a bonafide rapist, caught in the act of assaulting an unconscious woman, only went to jail for 3 months.
You don’t get to be angry, and I mean never ever again, if and/or when some punk kid or grown man calls your daughter a “piece of ass.” Or when he comments about how ample your daughter’s breasts are.
You don’t get to lash out when your partner/daughter/wife/etc. gets lewd comments thrown at her as she walks down the street.
You don’t get to be angry when a man knowingly tries to have sex with that married woman who just happens to be your wife or mother or sister.
You don’t get to be outraged when your daughter’s husband dumps her because she hit the ripe old age of 35, and well, he deserves the latest model to roll off the line.
You no longer get to hurt for the rape victims.
You no longer get to hold rallies for the bullied.
You no longer get to go to anymore candlelight vigils.
You no longer get to cry for them – any of them – anymore.
You no longer get to pretend that you care about America being great in any capacity.
Lastly, if at this point, you can’t drop your support of this ridiculous man, this embarrassment, this plank in the eye of this wonderful country, then you don’t get to point your big moral finger in anyone’s direction. Ever.
Ask yourself if this is the type of country you want for your daughters, your granddaughters, your wives, sisters, and mothers.
Ask yourself if you can truly believe America is great when bullies run the country.
And please, do everyone a favor, and don’t make this about Hillary. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. There is no comparison or correlation. Just stop with that.
We don’t have to like everything, or even anything for that matter, about Hillary to call this what it is. Sexual assault and abuse.
So look, if you want to continue to support a sexually abusive candidate, well that’s your choice, and I support everyone’s right to their choice. So it’s cool. Except this time, it’s really, really not.
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Trump is a narrcasist who loves an audience he is a bully and reminds me of dictators in the past I cannot believe people tolerate a person with this character
‘I cannot believe people tolerate a person with this character…’ The question is what is the alternative? Either not to vote, but this will not solve anything, or to vote for Hillary Clinton – however there are many voters who do not want her because of various reasons. There are only 2 candidates for such a large country with over 300 million people, I think this is somehow a flaw with the election system in USA. The voting system is complicated too, as a candidate with less votes than the other might turn out to be the winner nevertheless. It’s… Read more »
What seems to be overlooked is that we’re voting for President, not scoutmaster. For me, Trump’s outrageousness is the reason to prefer him to Clinton (not that I’ll be voting for either). My nightmare scenario is an activist President (from either party) with a compliant Congress. Trump is so disliked by the establishment of both parties that Congress won’t cooperate with him no matter who controls it. If Clinton gets a Democratic Congress, it’s Dubya all over again. Or LBJ.
Many voters in Western countries are strongly dissatisfied with the performance of their present politicians not only in USA, but also in UK, Europe and even in Japan, in Philippines and South Korea. They want ‘change’ out of various reasons and are willing to give ‘outsiders’ a chance by voting for them. In Philippines there is president Duterte, in South Korea there is a female president, here in Japan we have a female major of Tokyo and even a female minister of defense. In UK voters want to get out of the EU against the will of their politicians despite… Read more »
Top article!
I see one “flaw” in it however. Not wishing to generalise, but I think the average Trump supporter will be quite ok voicing concerns about any of those things happening to their own loved ones, or friends. Because, if these things are happening to someone else, it’s not as much of a problem. But if it’s directly affecting ME, well then, let the outrage fly…
A lack of compassion for others is a major problem here. An inability to empathise…
Ben, I completely agree! It is, very specifically, this lack of empathy I seek to address.
@ Ben Reaction dependent on who the victim is and maybe worse who the perpetrators are can very well be said of Clinton supporters. Bill Clinton gets a pass on the allegations against him although if a CEO had sex with an intern some progressives would consider the power differential rape. Hillary Clinton gets a pass for her defense of Bill. Others would be labeled rape apologists. I had linked to an article about Julian Edelman being being groped by multiple female fans. The collective outrage, none. I mentioned Chantae Gilman, a career criminal’s, sentence for breaking into a man’s… Read more »
Um , yes, while I respect your right to your opinion , he owned up to it. Every mistake is forgivable if you are willing to admit it. People change, people evolve. The man isn’t a politician , he isn’t perfect, but damnit he’s honest and love how he doesn’t cater to whiners . I’m still going to vote for an honest flawed man over another lying politician.
I agree. He is honest. He’s honest when says that he willingly, gleefully, and unsolicited, forced himself on women.
Snow is right on all accounts except one, he doesn’t justify he’s article cause he didn’t write an honest article. Let me explain, when you write an article about someone whether you like them or not you should always write about the pros and cons of the individual you are writing about. I may not like Trump but at the very least he is not faking what he is. I don’t agree with some of Trumps views much of them are in this article and more, but he does have a balance of good views also (ill leave the research… Read more »
Amen to that!!
This isn’t academia. This is an opinion piece. It does not require me to cater my writing to what you think should be, or not be in it.
well since we are hiding behind “this isn’t academia” Trumps history dictates the opposite of the racial and sexist Media theory. Quite a few of his CEO’s are women and they have nothing but praise for him. Not to mention you’ll have to excuse me if I’m not politically correct here he has quite a lot of black’s in the same position that don’t want to leave their position. Kind of tells a story there all on its own. But that’s just my opinion. Like I said before when I talk about someone I first do my research. Oh and… Read more »
this whole political race has been pretty depressing to witness as a woman. For a whole double-handful of reasons. But this recent thing has taught me the strange lines men draw in the sand about what is and isn’t okay. For some strange reason, it’s completely okay to disparage, objectify, overtly sexualize women in the company of other men, to bond with each other; as long as the linen drawn stops at sexual assault. This seems to be a low bar to set. And just seeing the sheer amount of men that seem to believe they deserve to pat on… Read more »
I certainly appreciate what you’re saying here, Erin. This is something that has come up quite a bit, and understandably so. There seems to me a big difference between a high school aged kid engaging in “locker room talk”, and a, then-60-year-old, man talking about sexually assualting women. I, in no way, condone sexual objectification or assault. I never said that behavior was acceptable or okay. In fact, I made it clear that the women in my life at the time would have been upset with me for that behavior. As a high school kid, I said and did dumb… Read more »
It is not teenage boys who talk like this Jon. It is Ivy League educate men too. It is doctors. lawyers, construction workers, etc. What really irks me is just how people like to feign outrage when they hear this sort of language when they know they have heard it all before. When I hear it I simply excuse myself. No high minded moralizing….. It’s like how Paula Deen was treated over the use of the N word. Yet Black rappers and many Black people themselves use the word daily. Why even President Obama had some these very rappers attend… Read more »
I’m guessing you’re white. Only a white person, one who would remain willfully ignorant, could compare Paula Deen’s use of the N-word to African-American rappers’ use of that same word. This is part of the problem.
No Jon. I am a Black man. I am 55 years old. I was raised in the Deep South by two loving and proud parents. My Dad was a 22 yr proud Marine vet. .The “N” world was never allowed to use in our home. The word is not permitted in my home. I don’t use the word. I do not associate with people who use the word. As far as calling me “willfully ignorant”, yes that IS part of the problem. I don’t need some cheese dick white liberal guy telling me how to think. I have a Vanderbilt… Read more »
I had to LOL when the assumption was made that you’re white, after all, ALL blacks accept rap music and what’s said in them, right. Wow, ya talk about racism? I know many minorities that favor Trump … many.
No one said anything about “ALL” blacks accepting rap music. The discussion was specifically about the use of the N-word.
Ha! “You disagree with my progressive values and don’t take every chance under the sun to bash Trump. You must be a white person because only a white person would disagree with me on this.”
As one black man to another (born and raised in the South, about 20 years younger than yourself, and trying to remove that dreadful n word from my vocabulary) I tip my hat to you for telling it like it really is rather than some so called progressive republican bashing fluff.
Danny, I clearly took exception to the insinuation that since African-American rappers freely use the N-word, Paula Deen’s use of it should have been more tolerable.
If that’s all you took exception to, then why did you assume Jules’ race? You could have easily just said, “How can you compare Paula Deen’s use of the word to black rappers using it?”. But no you assumed his race.
I can understand getting into the heat of the moment but let’s not try to rewrite history.
Jon – I certainly don’t think you condone sexual objectification or assault. I liked your piece infact. And maybe I am not compleletly expressing myself perfectly or have it perfectly figured out. There is just something off in a conversation where I’ve read so many men talk about how sure, they have spoken sexually objectively about women, when women aren’t around, but at least they didn’t talk about sexual assault. And us ladies are suppose to feel supported by that or something or like maybe good men sexual objectify women but at least they don’t joke about our sexual assault….I… Read more »
@ Erin
Have you ever watched a movie or read a book that had sex or violence in it? That’s just a story, a one way conversation that you chose to be a part of. Would you demand Hollywood stop making those movies and the directors, producers, production crew, and actors be publicly shamed? Those things were actually made for public consumption.
@ Jon Snow
The problem with people is that they’re sexual beings. Interesting concept, but I’d rather think of that as an endearing quality. Should we go through life playing spin the bottle because that seems to be what you and Erin are getting at? Just completely randomly determine our mates because we certainly wouldn’t want to think of some as “hot”.
And women don’t talk about men like this Erin? You know as well as I do that women are even more vulgar and explicit among yourselves in your own “locker room” banter about men.
So, please climb down off your high horse. Please.
Do you think the way women talk about men they just had sex with in all the explicit detail is sad?
I am not on a high horse just because I expressed a legitimate perspective based on the unfolding of recent events. I am allowed to have an opinion and feelings, and express them, on this event. As a woman, I am allowed to be concerned here, and offended, and upset. Just as you are allowed to do the same without me coming after you and negatively painting you as if you believe yourself to be above it all as well. In my own experience, I have not been surrounded with women that speak vulgarly about men. I don’t doubt it… Read more »
Erin,
“I am not on a high horse just because I expressed a legitimate perspective based on the unfolding of recent events.”
You know what Erin, you are right. I was out of line to say that to you. So, I apologize. I am truly sorry.
@ Erin “I have not been surrounded with women that speak vulgarly about men” I have. I’ve mentioned before that I worked as the only male in a female dominated department. I’ve mentioned the conversations they had including bringing a nudie mage and wondering why one male model could cover his private parts with a wash cloth while another needed a towel. Was I offended? I suppose so. It was certainly uncomfortable. I mentioned how I would pick these times to check the server room. Now, could I have made a huge deal of it and went to HR? Certainly,… Read more »
@ Erin Because women never have “locker room talks” among themselves, because women have never objectified men or told one of their girlfriends how cute a guy was or how “big” he us ir something along those lines. The problem isn’t objectification or fantasy (what would I do if I won the lottery type thing), we all fantasize and unless he fantasized about raping her, he’s talking about consensual sex. The problem is that it got into the media. It was something that was never intended for the object of his desire to hear. Even professionals are not immune from… Read more »
So, who here thinks die-hard Dump supporters care about any of the issues you wrote about?
Probably no one, myself included. But if I only wrote to change minds, I’d be an insane hamster on a wheel. I’m more interested in creating a discussion, a debate, and maybe even causing someone to pause for just one second while they consider a different viewpoint. Then maybe I can better understand others and the way they think, and maybe even find some common ground.
Don’t have a dog in this hunt because I’m not a Trump supporter, but it’s not up to you to decide what any of them (or any person, period) can and cannot do, Mr. Snow. You’re not God.
Actually, there are real laws against sexual assault. No one is playing god here.
I wasn’t talking about sexual assault. I was talking about the long list of things you said Trump’s supporters are not allowed to do. Here’s a handful to jog your memory- hold rallies for hurt people, support their loved ones, care about the country. Sorry, but Trump’s supporters are allowed to do these things and will most likely continue to do them, regardless of your opinion on the matter. Like I said, you’re not God.
Max, I appreciate the reiteration that I’m not a deity. It’s a polemic article, written in such manner as to cause reaction and debate. Conflating my words as an assertion of some misguided belief in sovereignty over anyone else, is simply ridiculous.
When you write what people can and cannot do (even if you aren’t saying so in a literal way, which obviously you weren’t) you aren’t being polemic. If you were being polemic, you would have simply wrote why Trump was immoral for saying what he did and how that affected his ability to be president. That’s what a polemic article is- an attack on someone or thing to support another argument. In this article, you are declaring what is and isn’t moral behavior for Trump’s supporters based on whether or not they continue to support him. That’s why I said… Read more »
Well Max, I disagree that this isn’t a polemic, since you admit I stirred up debate, and I disagree that a presidential candidate cannot be judged on past comments and behaviors. But it would be boring, not to mention unenlightening, if we all agreed on everything, and you seem like the kind of person I would enjoy civilly debating. So I hope you’ll write an article with your counter position, and we could then continue in that manner.
Seriously, do you have a reading comprehension problem? I didn’t say your judging of TRUMP was out of line, I said your judging of the morality of his SUPPORTERS was. You keep acting like all you did in this article was attack Trump, but you didn’t- you also attacked every person who supported him based on a comment he made. That’s absurd. A polemic article isn’t just an article meant to cause debate, every article on a subject like this does that in one way or another. Like I said before, the definition of a polemic article/debate is an attack… Read more »
Well, Max. You got me. You’re right. I did misread your comment. I wanted to respond to as many as I could, and I brushed over too quickly on this one. My mistake. I am very familiar with what a polemic is, thank you. So to that end: I attacked Donald Trump to support an argument that one should no longer support him. In the second half of my article, I attacked a way of thinking, (something) then presented what I believe those who subscribe to said way of thinking should no longer get to do (argument.) But Max, let’s… Read more »
You’re right, this article isn’t about a comment Trump made. It’s about you declaring that just because a person supports someone who did something immoral, that person forfeits the right to care about other people, their country, and a whole score of other things. So let’s carry that to it’s logical conclusion. People who admire George Washington cannot be against racism, because he owned slaves. People who support the armed forces cannot be in support of Native Americans, because of all the atrocities that the army committed against them and the country grew. Clinton supporters can’t support victims of sexual… Read more »
He’s not the only one who tried to make that point. Kara Post-Kennedy did the same thing in “Men, Female Ownership, and the Entitled (‘Successful’) Braggart”. If you support Trump your OK with rape. I pointed out that you could say the same thing about progressive icons like Gillebrand and Warren who held up VAWA re-authorization until they could strip protections from male victims. It’s hard to see that something can be more OK with rape than that. You can include the co-president Clinton in there as well. The silence is deafening when their hypocrisy is throw back at them.… Read more »
Yes, there are indeed. But, he did not commit sexual assault. He was simply being a braggadocio man.
There is evidence that one William Jefferson Clinton did commit sexual assault against women. But, people like you don’t write about that though. Do you?
Jules, William Jefferson Clinton isn’t currently running for the presidency.
I never said he was. But, his wife is running AND she bullied and intimidated women her husband sexually harassed, groped, and sexually assaulted. Yet she is a feminist icon and champion of women’s rights.
You’re right but they a[[ear to apply to the Clintons.
Below is a video of the woman in the latest Trump revelation. At about 5:30 she is asked about Trump:
https://youtu.be/FFneEUeZQVY
“You recently worked with Donald Trump. Did you flirt with Donald?”
“I did flirt with Donald. He is so cute and charming.”
Trump is a cretin and a buffoon, and he has a lot of money. The latter makes him cute and charming to far too many.
Interesting this is one of the only comments that hasn’t gotten a response
What response would you say it warranted?
@ Jon Snow There was a woman at work I used to flirt with. She had the figure of a D-Cup model and got a lot of male attention. Anyway she had a file cabinet located behind my desk. I bought a mirror and set it up so I could check her out when she was filing. A female co-worker told her that she should file a sexual harassment complaint with HR. She told her she couldn’t and when asked why replied, “because I like it”. Maybe it has something to do with it’s not rape if she consents nor… Read more »
This article is very biased, writing only bad things about Trump, while praising Hillary Clinton. Both candidates are not what I expect a future president of USA to be. Both of them show up with serious disadvantages. The US-president should be a healthy person, this job is very challenging. Hillary Clinton has various medical issues. I do not think she is fit to become the next president of USA and remain active in this position for the coming 4 years. This website is about men and I do not expect Hillary Clinton to do anything for men and boys. All… Read more »
Please tell me where in this article Hillary is praised? Did you actually read it?
There are two ways to praise somebody. One way is the direct one, by praising somebody by far over the top for his or her actions. For me that’s OK, it’s about pushing a certain candidate forward, it’s about to increase votes. The other one is the indirect one, indirect praise of the own candidate by talking badly about opponents like in your article and to attack their supporters. You are using shaming language against everybody who is considering to vote for Trump. That’s not good. It’s not about to increase votes for the own candidate, but it is about… Read more »
Sorry, but something is wrongly adjusted with this persistent Refresh Mode, my comment disappeared and now after posting again it shows up as double text in one single comment. Maybe somebody of the technical staff of the Good Men Project can do something about it. There was such a similar problem already a while ago.
Critique of one, is not praise or endorsement of another. And as for my exaggerations, Trump said and did all of those things. Like it or not, like the article or not, those are facts.
Amen to that!
“…..but with Hillary Clinton after Obama all will just continue as it is now” Yohan, Clearly you can see the big picture. All America is going to get from Hillary Clinton is more of the same old bullshit…..If America is to reassert itself it needs to move away from politicians like her. Besides this woman is truly worthless. She has zero credentials outside of her husband’s last name. She was a pathetic Secretary of State. Even got a US Ambassador killed. We spent 6 trillion in the Middle East. I am convinced if she is elected POTUS we will be… Read more »
I’m not any more outraged than by the sexist, misandric, and rape apologist comments Clinton made. I’m even less outraged than I am about the DV she has allegedly perpetrated against her husband, but then again I’m not sexist and won’t give her a pass based on her gender.
Stop interrupting the extremist rhetoric, John. You will ruin everything!
Those of us that see both sides of this issue are not welcome in such discussions, on the right or left.
John, I’m not really sure what comments you’re referring to here, and forgive me, but I have no idea what a DV is either. And I never asked for anyone to give Hillary a pass. Making it about Hillary is part of the problem here as I see it.
Sexist refers to the 13 or so times she indicated that she should be president because she’s a woman. Misandric stems from her contention that women are the real victims of war because they lost their men. A man’s life being of less consequence to her than a woman’s feelings. DV stands for domestic violence. There have been reports that she responded to her husbands indiscretions by hitting him. I don’t like Trump at all. Unfortunately, it comes down to a choice and I don’t like Clinton at all either. I like her less than Trump and that’s what it… Read more »
John, when there’s eveidence, I’ll happily entertain the DV “she perpetrated against her husband.” Until then, I have no plan to do so.
When Trump is convicted of doing anything people claim he did, I nay do the same.