Paul Denkenberger suggests how excluding men from pregnancy can hurt both mothers and fathers.
First, let me say I respect you as an actor, a woman, and a soon-to-be-mother. I remember watching your character on That 70’s Show and thinking, “Wow, that is one annoying person.” But, as a viewer, the single greatest feat an actor can accomplish is to make a loathsome character endearing and believable. You did both, so I congratulate you. I should also say, I’m not an expert of any kind. I am an average man with an average job in a small town in North Carolina. I am a father and husband, however, and that is the reason I felt compelled to write you.
Recently, you appeared on Jimmy Kimmel Live and recorded a rant as a response to Mr. Kimmel relating the news that he and his wife are pregnant. I get that it was a comedy bit and, to be honest, it was funny. Nevertheless, I must admit, it was also a rather troubling and hurtful tirade. It also illustrates part of a problem in the way our society views women, pregnancy, and fatherhood. Excluding fathers from the experience of pregnancy is not only unfair to “all the soon-to-be fathers out there,” it is unfair to all the soon-to-be mothers out there. I know, I know, I’m probably over-thinking what ostensibly was just a cute comedy bit meant to blow off a little steam and fill some air time. Nevertheless, let’s face it, you are an influential person and even when you might be kidding, your words will resonate with people everywhere and may, in fact, make things much worse for women when they shush their partners in the same way you shushed Mr. Kimmel.
I could cite all kinds of studies and anecdotal stories about the changes that men go through, and the phenomenon of sympathy pregnancy symptoms, but I don’t think it’s necessary to get all sciency about this. What I want to do is encourage you, and all women,
What I want to do is encourage you, and all women, to allow men to feel and take part in the experience of pregnancy. Just because a coach stands on the sidelines of a football game doesn’t mean he isn’t a part of the team.
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to allow men to feel and take part in the experience of pregnancy. Just because a coach stands on the sidelines of a football game doesn’t mean he isn’t a part of the team. He may not bear the physical scars of the hard hits and repeated tackles, but a coach’s support and guidance are what makes the difference between good teams and great teams.
In the experience of pregnancy, a woman bears the physical burden of growing a life. No, men do not have to “squeeze a watermelon-sized human out of our lady hole.” Nor do our hormones rage like a pubescent teenager taking steroids and hormone supplements. A man’s role in pregnancy is to support and assist you, to accept and love you. Even when you are saying the most horrible things imaginable, even when you are crying on our shoulder one minute and screaming in our face the next, even when you wake us up while you “throw up because you are nurturing a human life” and ask us to massage your back then tell us we’re doing it wrong and you run back to bed crying and telling us not to touch you anymore, we are there to support you.
Pregnancy is full of sacrifice and contradiction, you illustrate that perfectly when in one sentence you are bordering on martyrdom as you speak about “growing a human life” and in the next calling your growing life a “love goblin growing inside of [you].” Love, marriage, and successful long-term relationships depend on accepting and understanding that you’re not going to feel the same way about a person for the rest of your life. You’re going to feel a wide range of ways about each other, some of them more loving than others. The same goes for having children. One minute they are making your heart soar with pride at their development and growth, the next you can feel the bile rising as your anger threatens to erupt out of your stomach in an angry explosion because they just broke your favorite (insert valuable item here), or because those beautiful little kicking legs just kicked you square in the nose and woke you out of a dead sleep.
Now, part of the problem with the way you (and many other women) are experiencing pregnancy may be due to your partner. I mean, if all the man did was “roll over and go to sleep” after he inseminated you, then it’s possible that he is not fulfilling his role as coach and teammate. Perhaps he doesn’t attend all of the doctor’s appointments. Perhaps he hasn’t tried to understand what you’re going through – not that he actually could because, as you pointed out, he’s not going to squeeze anything out of anything during labor. Still, perhaps he hasn’t picked up a single book or watched a single video to try to understand what you’ll go through or the vital role that he can play in the birthing process as your labor coach and partner. On the other hand, perhaps he feels shut out of the experience because people are repeatedly telling him that he is not the one who is pregnant, that you are. Perhaps he only sees himself as the sperm donor and ice cream runner in what will arguably the most important few months in either of your lives.
Exclusion in any form is hurtful. Excluding men from pregnancy and birthing hurts both mothers and fathers. It perpetuates a myth that men have no role in pregnancy other than to provide the sperm, take the blame, and come in
Excluding men from pregnancy and birthing hurts both mothers and fathers. It perpetuates a myth that men have no role in pregnancy other than to provide the sperm, take the blame, and come in at the end to pass out pink or blue cigars
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at the end to pass out pink or blue cigars. To refuse men the opportunity to claim pregnancy, or just share in the experience, you alienate them from what could be the most bonding and loving experience of your lives. While taking sole ownership of such a powerful event may seem empowering and justified, you may just be isolating yourself, which is the opposite of empowerment. You don’t want to be alone during this, and neither does he.
In any case, I implore you to allow your soon-to-be-father and husband to use the plural pronoun when he talks about the life you created together. His may not be the same experience, and yours is most certainly the more physically and emotionally demanding role in that process. Still, maybe, just maybe, if more women start to actively allow, or invite, men to share in the experience of pregnancy, more of them might take a more active and positive role in it, and maybe, too, in the lives of their children. I know it’s a crazy thought, and men may not want to know and do more. But unless you let them in and give them the benefit of the doubt, then we’ll never know.
If you have read this, Ms. Kunis, I appreciate your time. I wish you all the best on a successful and happy pregnancy, birth, marriage, and motherhood. Please send my warm wishes to Mr. Kutcher, as well. I know we don’t know each other, but one thing my experience with pregnancy gave me is a sense of connection to the great path of humanity and a profound love for all those brave enough to keep it going. May your experience provide you with love, hope, and compassion. Also, if you are not Ms. Kunis and you read this, I doubly thank you for your time. It takes two people to make a baby, but it takes a lot more to change the way a society supports those people.
Sincerely,
Paul from North Carolina
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This is my third time at the rodeo and all i can say is that this is some next level entitlement. When we’re dealing with nausea, sleeplessness, nausea, stretch marks, bloated feet then “We” can have a baby, until then be there for your partner, enjoy the ride and shut the f*ck up and be a dad.
‘Pregnant’ can also be defined as ‘full of meaning’. While my husband was not physically pregnant with our child, he was pregnant with the joy, anticipation, and hope of bringing a baby into this world. We chose to say, “We are pregnant,” because it acknowledged and respected both of our experiences as individuals and our shared experience as partners. It’s fine to say, “We are pregnant,” or “We are expecting,” or “We are having a baby.” What is most important to me is the ‘we’ part. The author asks for us to open ourselves to allow the plural pronoun, he… Read more »
“By men taking the child that a woman created and name it after himself.. claiming credit for hundreds of thousands of years..”
“Men have taken credit for children for all of known history and to this day are named after the father, not the one who created the child – and now you want more credit?”
“Saying “we’re pregnant” is nothing more than riding on the tail coats of the accomplishments of women that men have been doing since history began.”
Oh my god she’s insane. She didn’t even read.
Insane? Where are the lies?
I think this was an incredible piece, cheers for writing it.
As for everyone arguing that men can’t be pregnant. Pregnancy has multiple definitions. People who refuse to see that don’t understand how words work in this language. Not only is pregnancy the development of a fetus, pregnancy is also something that is full of meaning or significant. So, even under the strictest of dictionary based definitions, men can still be pregnant. Get over your semantics and understand what a person is trying to say. Communication is as much the duty of the listener as it is the speaker.
To all the sanctimonious people trying to dismiss this article by defending Meg’s rant by saying “It’s a joke,” or “It was meant to be funny, lighten up,” I’d just like to say one thing: What do you call one white guy surrounded by 10 black guys? The quarterback. Hey, come on, it’s a joke. It’s meant to be funny. Lighten up. It’s totally true that more black men play sports. That’s not cultural oppression, that’s just a fact. Now do you see how incredibly ridiculous you sound? Hurtful, ignorant jokes are not funny and they should not be treated… Read more »
Nope, I don’t see. White man haven’t been systematically oppressed so you can’t compare that ‘Joke’ to what has been said here. Completely different historical context. Get a grip.
Just because a coach stands on the sidelines of a football game doesn’t mean he isn’t a part of the team. He may not bear the physical scars of the hard hits and repeated tackles, but a coach’s support and guidance are what makes the difference between good teams and great teams.
indeed, and the coach or cheerleaders at the end of the game would say, ‘we won’ or ‘we lost’.
i always thought men who said, ‘we’re pregnant’ were just being lyrical
Shout out to TR for being the only commenter to acknowledge trans men exist.
By men taking the child that a woman created and name it after himself.. claiming credit for hundreds of thousands of years.. Men have taken credit for children for all of known history and to this day are named after the father, not the one who created the child – and now you want more credit? Men don’t get to claim pregnancy. they can’t get pregnanat. That is a biological fact and no women should sugar coat this fact to sooth the hearts of men who want credit for something they aren’t doing. It is a sign of incredible disrespect… Read more »
It. Was. A. Joke.
I prefer expecting over pregnant as well. Men can not get pregnant and experience all a woman can. He can expect a baby, an addition to his family and be supportive, but I don’t feel he is a coach. He’s watching from the sidelines, sure, but he’s never been in that game. If you need to use sports metaphors to butch up pregnancy, then it would make more sense if an experienced mother would be the coach. The father-to-be can and should play an important, supportive roll, but saying you are pregnant or an authority on the female experience, because… Read more »
yea I would say they are more of a cheerleader than a coach. Many coaches have played the game and know from personal experience the sport that they are teaching. Cheerleaders haven’t played the sport but understand it well enough to cheer on the team and know when to get excited etc. but not because they played the sport – they just watched it.
Men are cheerleaders, not coaches, in regards to roles in pregnancy.
a cheerleader would never say that they are part of the team. they are support for the team.
It is not whether men have the “right” or “allowed” to say “we’re pregnant.” Of course they have the right to say that, and they don’t need anyone’s permission to say so. For all of the commenters who are getting all “sciencey,” yes, men do not get pregnant. But, that is not the point. The expression is metaphorical. Me? I don’t like the expression, not because the man is not pregnant, but because the man is not a woman. I did not use it when my wife was pregnant. I don’t recall what I said, but I was not out… Read more »
Thankfully my boyfriend would know better than to claim he’s pregnant because he knows the minute he does I”ll start treating him like he’s pregnant.
That beer would be snatched out of his hands so fast
and the soda he tried replacing the beer with would also be taken
and cigarettes
and fish
and chocolate and other caffines.
You want to claim pregnancy? Don’t talk to talk if you can’t walk the walk.
Lynn,
Are you suggesting that it is appropriate to police the behavior of pregnant women?
If not, your suggestion that you can dictate your boyfriend’s behavior in that way sounds nothing short of abusive.
-Jut
indeed jut.
one of my uncle’s is called lynn, and if lynn was still only a man’s name and the poster assumed to be male. most people reading lynn’s posts (not just on this thread) would see clearly what type of mind they are dealing with.
Jut, the behavior of pregnant women DOES get policed. Even among women. I’ve seen many pregnant women have things taken out of their hands or conversations begin around what she’s putting into her body. Most is done out of care even if it can be annoying. I’d hardly classify it as “abusive”. By the way, what exactly is the problem with a man giving up things that are bad for the baby if they are infact both pregnant? I think Lynn is trying to make the point that women make a lot of sacrfices during pregnancy and it’s like you… Read more »
Erin: “Jut, the behavior of pregnant women DOES get policed.” Yes, it does. Are you okay with that? If not, I stand by my comment to Lynn. If you are not okay with a man dictating his wife’s diet, the reverse should be equally condemned, that is my point. Erin: “By the way, what exactly is the problem with a man giving up things that are bad for the baby if they are infact both pregnant?” First off, it won’t hurt the baby if the father has a beer. That is the whole biological argument that Lynn and others have… Read more »
Jut, to answer your question, yeah I’m okay with it. I’ve been in a lot of conversations with pregnant and non-pregnant women alike where we talk about health concerns and our bodies. Maybe if I had the experience of being pregnant, I’d have a different perspective. But I can only answer your question from my own perspective. But this isn’t just about simply dictating someone’s diet just for the sake of it. This isn’t about a man telling his partner not to eat certain things just for the heck of it. Pregnant women simply can’t eat and drink certain things.… Read more »
Erin, To be clear, I have no problem with what a father does to support the mother (just as I have no problem if he says, “we’re pregnant” (again, not something I would do)). But, Lynn is not looking for voluntary support. She uses violent words like, “snatch” and makes it clear that she is going to control his behavior. However, to use a personal example, my wife got gestational diabetes when she was pregnant. So, we had to go through and count carbs and calories and make sure her blood sugar levels did not spike much (so I made… Read more »
Unfortunately, many men exclude themselves from their partners’ pregnancies. Since men can’t understand all that a pregnancy entails instead of learning about it, they distance themselves. Sound familiar? As a matter of fact, most men do not even know what a woman’s reproductive organs look like or where they are. My ex husband would practically bolt from the room when I tried to educate him of the finer points of how a pregnancy happens, etc. He thought the details were “gross”. He fully enjoyed getting me pregnant, but wasn’t interested in the rest. He was the man who would be… Read more »
Yeah.. Many men don’t even know that there is more than just a vagina… I”m pretty sure they stop listening after that.. because that’s all that benefits them so why learn anything more than what can benefit them? The vagina is the means to the end.. who cares about labia and vulva and urethra and cervics and ovaries – There was this man who, I shit you not, thought that a catheter wouldn’t hurt women the way it does men because “if you can push a baby out of it, a catheter would be easy!” Facepalm.. and sadly some men… Read more »
Excellent point Ann. I’ve heard that word ,”gross”, used to refer to women’s bodies during their periods and during pregnancy largely from other men who were “grossed out” by the realities of what a woman’s body really is about.
In fact, many men don’t even know about the existence of the clitoris. Many that know, don’t care about it. And I don’t know if I laugh or get even more frustrated with this fact lol.
Which is why some men get baffled when women don’t orgasm from intercourse alone.
Which is why there are alot of confused men out there who don’t understand why she didn’t orgasm from intercourse alone. After all, he can orgasm from intercourse alone and all those women in porn certainly orgasm from intercourse alone.
Also, then there is the whole issue of breast feeding. Men even get “grossed out” by that prospect. It’s like if the female body isn’t being sexualized, it’s disgusting to them.
Statistics, please. Don’t make blanket statements about “many” or “most” of a demographic group without having hard facts to back it up. That is what we call stereotyping.
Anecdotal “evidence” will not be considered. Sorry.
“Blanket statement” about many men not knowing much about women’s reproductive organs? Come on. Even many women don’t know about some things.
And I don’t think anyone gives a fuck about what you would like to consider or not, sorry about that.
I have to say, I agree with TR, and I´m going to be dramatic here. If a pregnant woman has complications during childbirth and dies, (lets say the baby survives), the husband or partner is devastated but he doesn´t die. This applies also if the partner is female, by the way. If a man has testicular cancer, that man´s wife or partner goes through a lot of the anxiety and fear and hopefully relief when everything turns out o.k., the woman did not have testicular cancer. If a cell is going through mitosis, and the cell next door is saying… Read more »
I wholeheartedly agree with everything in this article except the use of the term “we’re pregnant.” I believe men deserve to have all of these things, and very much can, without the need for misusing a word (which defines a very distinct and non-negotiable processes). But to me, that’s entirely besides the point. Call it what you will. The advise in this article is profound and necessary, no matter what people chose to say. It’s the act of equal participation that’s important, not the need for hijacking of a word in order to get there.
Oh, for chrissakes.
thank you! i was thinking these exact things when i watched the video- i’m really grateful you took the time to point out the problems within this rant and GMP published it.
I vastly prefer the statement “We’re expecting” over “we’re pregnant” because it’s entirely more accurate. Two people can’t be pregnant. But in agreement with your sentiments in your article, two people can most decidedly be “expecting.” Men simply can not be pregnant (barring unique and perfectly wonderful transgendered men, but that’s an entirely different topic). But men can be expecting a baby. When men say they’re pregnant, it honestly sounds weird and desperate. Men aren’t pregnant. But when men say “We’re expecting” it totally makes sense and it indicates his very important role in the pregnancy. It makes sense to… Read more »
I can agree with you from a semantic point of view, pregnancy by definition is the act of growing a fetus in the uterus. From a grammar point of view, however, I still conclude that pregnancy is, in its ideal form, a shared experience. The formal definition of pregnancy limits the experience to strictly females of any species, which we know is not the scientific fact of nature. Limiting my argument to the human species, we must accept that making, growing, and nurturing a child is a shared experience. Again, in its ideal form where the man accepts and carries… Read more »
Be a dad. It’s a wonderful thing. I appreciate that you feel so strongly about this subject. But the fact remains that YOU are not pregnant, YOU cannot be pregnant. If your wife put you through medical school, if she sacrificed and supported you and helped you study and worked full time scrubbing floors while you were in school, she would not still not be a doctor. Accept it. Being pregnant is fundamentally different than being a coach or supporter or fantastic dad. It almost sounds like you wish you could be pregnant with her which is a noble feeling… Read more »
In what way is the dad-to-be a coach?
All going well he is a cheerleader.
The coach is the OB/GYN.
Bingo!