Panel Discussion on the Current Crisis Facing LGBTQI+ Afghans

Watch our online panel discussion about the current crisis facing LGBTQI+ Afghans and the urgent need for action by the Biden administration and others to protect them.

Transcript provided by YouTube (unedited)

00:13
good afternoon good morning good evening
00:15
wherever you are and thank you for
00:17
joining us online today for another in
00:19
the human rights campaign series of
00:21
global conversations
00:23
our televisions are full of images of
00:25
the world’s crises from haiti to the
00:28
southern border to floods to hurricanes
00:32
covered and more
00:34
and recently of course the august
00:36
takeover of afghanistan by the taliban
00:39
following the collapse of the army and
00:41
government of that country
00:43
and just this weekend we saw more
00:45
numbing images of the taliban’s brutal
00:48
rule just as so many had predicted
00:52
the taliban’s rise to power has focused
00:54
international attention on the safety
00:56
and livelihood of many vulnerable
00:58
populations in afghanistan including
01:01
women and girls and lesbian gay bisexual
01:05
transgender queer and intersex afghans
01:09
now same-sex sexual conduct was already
01:12
criminalized before the taliban took
01:14
control but the new regime’s mandate to
01:16
real with rule with sharia law makes the
01:19
fate of lgbtqi afghans even more
01:22
precarious
01:23
subjecting them to the very real
01:25
possibility of death
01:27
they’re already alarming reports from
01:29
lgbtqi afghans about their fear of
01:32
living under taliban rule
01:34
with many saying that they’ve gone into
01:35
hiding in fear of their lives
01:38
an exodus of lgbtqi refugees has
01:41
commenced and will likely expand
01:44
today we’re going to explore what are
01:46
the fears of lgbtqi afghans and what
01:49
life is like living under the taliban
01:52
we will focus on what you as citizens
01:55
can do and must do to urge our
01:58
governments to do more to protect these
02:00
people and to ensure that they do not
02:03
just become more awful statistics
02:06
we will look at specific measures that
02:08
can be taken to save lives and how you
02:11
can help
02:13
and to do this today we have an awesome
02:16
panel
02:17
let me introduce our panelists for the
02:20
afternoon first i want to welcome mark
02:23
bromling
02:25
who is chair and co-founder of the
02:27
council for global equality a powerful
02:30
coalition of us-based organizations that
02:33
advocate for an inclusive u.s foreign
02:35
policy
02:36
mark is an international human rights
02:38
lawyer
02:39
and a graduate of the university of
02:41
virginia school of law and the school of
02:43
foreign service at georgetown university
02:46
hello mark and welcome
02:48
thank you it’s good to be here thank you
02:51
next we have kamali powell
02:54
who is the executive director of rainbow
02:56
railroad an amazing organization which
02:59
helps to resettle lgbtqi refugees all
03:02
around the world kimali is a long time
03:05
advocate for social justice who has
03:07
spent over 20 years advancing the rights
03:10
of youth the african caribbean and black
03:12
community people living and affected by
03:15
hiv and the lgbtqia community
03:19
he’s a graduate of the university of
03:20
ottawa and holds an unreductive laws
03:23
from the university of victoria
03:25
welcome kimali
03:28
and last but certainly not least
03:31
we welcome nemat sadat
03:34
who is an afghan-american journalist
03:37
novelist and human rights activist
03:40
he’s the author of the carpet weaver and
03:42
an
03:43
lgbtqia rights activists in afghanistan
03:47
and muslim communities worldwide
03:49
while teaching at the american
03:51
university in afghanistan he was deemed
03:54
a national security threat for his
03:56
lgbtqia activism
03:59
holds graduate degrees from harvard
04:01
columbia oxford and johns hopkins and we
04:04
honored to welcome him here hello nemat
04:09
shortly we will be joined by congressman
04:11
chris pappas
04:13
will talk about what he is doing on
04:15
capitol hill
04:16
but in the meantime let’s jump right
04:19
into the conversation
04:22
so
04:22
i’m going to start with nemat
04:25
um
04:26
we have read much about the danger that
04:28
the taliban posed to lgbtqia afghans can
04:32
you briefly outline
04:34
what is the nature of the threat that
04:36
they face and why afghan lgbtqi people
04:39
are afraid for their lives in the
04:41
current situation
04:44
the right now um lgbtqi people in
04:47
afghanistan are the most vulnerable
04:50
people in the most dangerous country
04:53
uh right now
04:54
and i i don’t it’s not hyperbolic to say
04:58
you know
04:58
to say what
05:00
uh what what the taliban are doing and
05:02
will continue to do is nothing short of
05:05
what the nazis did it is the complete
05:07
extermination of an entire community
05:10
and they’re going to do that by
05:12
implementing sharia law and they have
05:14
already done that
05:16
and what’s really taken
05:18
a big tours of fate from the sources on
05:20
the ground that have come to me they
05:22
said that these public executions in the
05:23
name of like kidnappings and other
05:26
heinous crimes that the taliban have
05:27
committed they’re saying that those are
05:29
actually members of the lgbtqia
05:31
community but they’re passing it as
05:33
other crimes just to get the rally the
05:34
support and they don’t want they don’t
05:37
they know that if they kill homosexuals
05:39
and in transgender people that the
05:42
there’s going to be an international
05:43
outcry against the taliban so
05:46
we face a
05:48
you know menacing group of people
05:49
tyrannical terrorists that are bent on
05:52
the destruction of our of our community
05:54
and uh
05:55
there’s
05:56
there’s no resources for them there is
05:58
no
05:59
there is no safe house there is no lgbt
06:01
center there is no there’s nobody to
06:03
plead to the few allies that we had
06:06
they’re now turning against them
06:08
basically uh the taliban are coming into
06:11
communities and saying hand us over your
06:13
lgbtq people and anybody who cooperates
06:16
gets a social credit anybody who does
06:19
not they will receive the same
06:21
punishment
06:22
that
06:23
the same punishment that our the lgbtq
06:25
people get which is an imminent death
06:27
mullah gul rahim in july
06:30
uh basically this is before the
06:31
withdrawal this is before the fall of
06:33
kabul this is before everything was
06:34
handed over
06:36
vowed that other people will be given
06:37
amnesty and we know that that’s not the
06:39
truth that
06:40
you know like interpreters and
06:41
journalists and other people who the
06:43
taliban have been targeting uh
06:45
will be given amnesty but with with the
06:47
members of the lgbt community they
06:48
didn’t even they didn’t even make a
06:50
promise to even give an amnesty they
06:52
were very clear that the only faith that
06:54
they would receive is uh either a
06:57
toppling of walls by 10 to feet 10 to 15
06:59
feet tall
07:01
stoning and there’s nothing else and
07:03
that’s exactly what we’ve been seeing on
07:05
the ground uh
07:06
with people uh with you know you know
07:08
with the people that that i serve and
07:10
have been continuing to serve uh for the
07:11
last decade as as a you know as a
07:14
leading lgbtqi activist
07:18
well thank you and we’ll come back and
07:20
i’m sure we’ll be able to
07:22
hear even more details about the
07:24
situation
07:26
um let me ask you molly
07:28
you know when rainbow railroad
07:30
which works to help lgbtqi refugees all
07:33
around the world what did you do when
07:35
you first became aware of the situation
07:38
in afghanistan and were some of the
07:39
challenges you faced
07:44
yeah thanks uh for having me and thanks
07:46
for the question you know
07:48
rainbow road currently fields uh between
07:50
three and four thousand requests for
07:52
help each year
07:53
uh all around the world and i think
07:55
what’s remarkable about
07:57
this current situation is
08:00
i think we have to acknowledge that it’s
08:02
in part
08:03
um
08:05
a consequence of governments kind of not
08:08
um
08:09
really foreseeing or planning um the
08:12
inevitable displacement that would
08:14
happen with
08:16
the withdrawal of us forces
08:19
and the fall of kabul
08:21
and one of the things that we’ve
08:23
long advocated for is uh for multiple
08:26
countries the in the united states is a
08:28
crisis response plan for this very
08:30
reason
08:30
uh because um
08:33
how
08:34
extraordinary how extraordinary is it
08:36
that you know
08:38
um nemat is and other folks are placed
08:42
in this
08:43
position to have to protect
08:46
uh
08:47
hundreds of if not thousands of lgbtqia
08:50
afghans who are displaced right now uh
08:52
and so really our organization
08:55
um
08:55
[Music]
08:58
you know looked closely at what was
08:59
happening on the ground and
09:01
um
09:02
it was actually partially because
09:04
governments announced
09:06
lgbtqi persons of
09:09
concern of vulnerable groups uh
09:12
during the period between the fall of
09:14
kabul and the withdrawal that people
09:17
just started to approach us
09:20
and so
09:21
by doing so we try to
09:23
see how we can help
09:25
one of the challenges for us um prior to
09:29
the fall cobble is that
09:31
uh rainbow railroad works uh seeks to
09:33
work jointly with
09:35
lgbtqia
09:36
organizations human rights offenders on
09:38
the ground uh and
09:40
in the
09:41
in afghanistan it was even before the
09:44
talmud took over it was organizing was
09:46
difficult
09:48
and i think we saw further displacement
09:50
and
09:51
people leaving and and you know shutting
09:54
down
09:54
their organizations
09:56
like during that period of time
09:58
so
09:59
what we sought to do is try to build any
10:02
sort of
10:02
coalitions uh in order to try to get
10:05
people out who are evacuating
10:07
uh for and and one of the challenges uh
10:10
for the lgbti community out of
10:12
afghanistan fleeing is that it’s not
10:14
it’s not like neighboring countries are
10:16
safe havens either and so being really
10:19
careful not to further
10:21
displace someone uh or relocate someone
10:23
to another place that’s also dangerous
10:26
for them and so we continue to look at
10:29
opportunities to
10:31
evacuate persons
10:33
working with civil society
10:35
activists
10:36
governments
10:39
ensuring that there’s a safe country to
10:42
eventually resettle persons and then
10:44
ensuring that governments actually have
10:47
a
10:48
short medium and long-term plan to
10:50
actually deal with people at risk
10:55
so
10:56
along those lines thanks um i’m going to
10:59
ask mark this question i mean
11:01
clearly we were all shocked by the
11:03
images of you know thousands of refugees
11:07
desperate to leave the country trying to
11:09
get onto those last american planes um
11:13
and then you know the the issue of what
11:15
was happening to folks when they arrived
11:17
here i mean i think everybody was caught
11:20
by surprise and governments were caught
11:21
by surprise by the speed of the collapse
11:24
of the afghan army and state and and you
11:27
know taliban takeover and the resultant
11:30
refugee crisis can you explain why the
11:33
u.s refugee system is in such disarray
11:37
following
11:39
the previous administration um and why
11:41
it’s so important to fix it
11:44
sure thanks gene um i think you’re right
11:46
we were all horrified watching the
11:48
scenes unfold at kabul airport and
11:51
clearly that was a massive intelligence
11:53
failure right
11:54
the united states did not anticipate
11:57
kabul to fall so quickly they did not we
11:59
did not anticipate the afghan army to
12:01
simply disappear um and the president to
12:05
to leave within a matter of hours so so
12:07
everyone was caught off guard um at the
12:11
rapid pace of the the fall of kabul um
12:15
and we weren’t prepared for it and it
12:16
was utter chaos but i think it’s also
12:19
important to understand
12:21
sort of
12:21
where the u.s refugee was program was at
12:24
that moment in time so under the trump
12:27
administration um trump administration
12:30
essentially shut down our u.s refugee
12:33
program so historically the united
12:35
states has been one of the most generous
12:38
countries in terms of resettling
12:40
refugees to the united states and we
12:42
historically have resettled somewhere
12:44
around 100 125 000 refugees a year
12:48
toward the end of his presidency
12:49
president trump set the cap at 15 000
12:53
persons and even that was not uh um
12:57
was not real because through
12:59
bureaucratic means and justifications
13:02
based on kovid the entire program was
13:04
essentially shut down so when the biden
13:07
administration came back in
13:09
they had to essentially resuscitate
13:12
the u.s refugee program they had to
13:15
re-staff it offices that are important
13:17
to the security vetting were shut down
13:21
we simply didn’t have the staff or the
13:23
capacity to resettle people in the first
13:27
months after the trump administration
13:29
slowly the biden administration has been
13:31
rebuilding that capacity but we were in
13:34
the very early stages of rebuilding the
13:36
us refugee program when the crisis at
13:39
kabul hit and we were not prepared to
13:41
resettle tens of thousands of refugees
13:44
into a program that had been completely
13:46
decimated by the trump administration
13:49
the administration has tried a lot of
13:51
creative fixes to bring people to third
13:54
countries to process to process through
13:57
humanitarian visas instead of refugee
13:59
visas there’s there’s been a lot of
14:01
effort to try to deal with the crisis
14:04
but the reality is the us refugee
14:07
program was completely broken and it’s
14:09
really important that
14:12
medium and long term we look at
14:14
opportunities to fix that program
14:16
because that program is
14:18
the lifeline we need for this these
14:21
sorts of crisis situations uh involving
14:23
mass migration
14:26
well
14:27
you’re right i mean we need those
14:29
lifelines so that we can avoid the
14:31
situations
14:33
that we saw playing out over the last
14:35
few weeks um nima you’ve been in touch
14:38
with lgbtq people uh across afghanistan
14:41
desperate to get out can you tell us a
14:43
little bit about you know what some of
14:45
them were experiencing in their efforts
14:48
to
14:48
to leave
14:51
yeah i mean it’s it’s horrific i mean
14:53
what they’re experiencing like you know
14:54
i i say this like right now they’re in
14:57
like anne frank like conditions hiding
15:00
in basements in closets and rooftops
15:02
doing whatever they can to not to expose
15:04
themselves because
15:06
during the last decade or even the last
15:09
20 years
15:11
they were exposing themselves in the
15:12
sense that they were quasi out they were
15:14
trying to push the envelope for social
15:17
progress for lgbt even though
15:18
afghanistan homosexual was illegal right
15:21
and so now they are worried that they’re
15:23
on the taliban hit list um and that any
15:26
kind of that that anybody their neighbor
15:29
their friends even in some cases their
15:30
fam their own families are writing them
15:32
out i mean i have one person whose own
15:34
father as basically as he’s
15:36
collaborating with the taliban and
15:38
trying to hunt down his son and this son
15:40
is like this is so devastating because
15:43
he has absolutely nowhere to go um and
15:46
he is also an ethnic and religious
15:48
minority too so he has like he’s triple
15:50
you know triple threat and it’s just
15:53
like you know you have so many people
15:54
that have so many different lives that
15:56
are that are the intersection of these
15:58
of all their issues are just just all
16:00
magnifying on top of each other i just
16:02
you know
16:03
one person who is who goes by the name
16:05
of ahmadilla he has seen so much horror
16:08
half of his family getting killed by the
16:09
taliban his on the day that the taliban
16:12
took over kabul his own boyfriend was
16:14
beheaded and he’s been on the run he’s
16:16
had now three
16:18
instances of evading capture and each of
16:21
those times he’s been brutally beaten
16:23
and and and and wounded and stabbed uh
16:26
and it’s just like it’s like taking
16:28
these people are now not just going from
16:31
not just going from like within district
16:33
from within the city they’re actually
16:35
going and this is not just like
16:37
exclusive to the lgbtqia community this
16:39
is across afghanistan people who cannot
16:42
get out of afghanistan they’re literally
16:44
going from province to province region
16:46
to region so that hopefully in the hope
16:48
that the people in a different part of
16:49
the country will not recognize who they
16:51
are who will not know who they are will
16:52
not know their history and will
16:54
hopefully will not report them to the
16:56
taliban so but but what about the people
16:57
who don’t have those resources they
16:59
don’t know what they are so with the
17:01
lgbtqia community not only where they
17:04
are they didn’t receive much of this
17:06
financial aid and support that came they
17:08
were already considered illegal so
17:10
they’re already on the fringes of
17:11
society and it’s like now it’s like they
17:14
have absolutely no social support like
17:16
if it wasn’t people like rainbow
17:18
railroad and myself and other nominees
17:20
trying to be the advocates they would
17:22
have they would pretty much perish like
17:24
the only reason why they’re they’re
17:26
still alive right now is because they’re
17:28
thinking well you know what there’s some
17:30
hope there’s somebody out there for
17:32
advocating for me trying to get my voice
17:34
across you know in this last decade when
17:36
i tried to get members of the lgbt
17:38
community to come and speak with
17:39
journalists they were really scared like
17:41
for example after the orlando massacre
17:43
when you know omar the african-american
17:46
turned isis terrorists went and killed
17:48
people people wanted people general
17:50
people in the u.s media international
17:52
media were like we want to speak to
17:53
members of the lgbt community and nobody
17:55
wanted to speak it was like so hard i
17:57
would need to ask like hundreds of
17:58
people to get one person to say yes
18:00
right and now it’s the exact opposite
18:02
everybody wants to get the story turned
18:05
no one is refusing to speak to a
18:06
journalist everyone’s like you know what
18:08
we’re gonna die anyways we don’t want
18:10
our life to go in vain we want our
18:12
stories to get told we want the world to
18:14
know do we want the world to care about
18:16
lgbtq afghan people that we’re humans
18:19
too that we deserve to be equal that we
18:21
deserve to be
18:23
we deserve the same dignity as everybody
18:25
else even though the world the rest of
18:27
the world hates us they don’t want us
18:29
they don’t they think that we’re to keep
18:31
us out of sight out of mind but no our
18:33
life does matter we do want to live and
18:36
maybe somebody somebody out there will
18:37
do something to change our faith so that
18:39
maybe we can get our freedom and that’s
18:42
that’s where they’re at right now
18:43
they’re grasping on that last breath and
18:45
they’re hoping that somebody will say
18:46
yes
18:47
and mind you that
18:49
that the taliban they see them as the
18:52
worst creatures according to the
18:54
ideology that they believe in because
18:57
homosexuals are considered
18:59
uh you know homosexuals is a work
19:02
cardinal sin because of homeless being
19:03
homosexual being an apostate and being a
19:05
sodomite so there’s there’s no way for
19:08
negotiation and and this is i think one
19:10
of the this is the one i think that’s
19:11
really upsetting for the really lgbtqia
19:14
communities like how could the united
19:16
states and our the international
19:18
community not only abandon us but how
19:21
could they even negotiate with people
19:23
and not even say ensure even guarantee
19:26
our basic
19:27
existence so i mean this whole premise
19:30
was flawed and false from the very
19:32
beginning and i think that they’re just
19:34
basically they’re like there’s there’s
19:36
just like very little hope for them but
19:38
i’m trying to tell them no there are
19:39
people who care they’re i’m every i’m in
19:42
contact with them um in many ways many
19:45
methods and i’m constantly telling them
19:46
no you got to keep going you got to keep
19:48
alive and you got to keep yours kind of
19:50
trying to keep your spirits up and i
19:52
think that now
19:53
the the pendulum is shifting there is a
19:56
growing movement that’s happening and i
19:58
think people are realizing that no
20:00
whatever happens to lgbtq community in
20:02
afghanistan could very well spread
20:05
throughout central asia to the western
20:06
world you know we have to make sure if
20:08
afghanistan goes dark for lgbtq people
20:11
then it threatens the lgbt community
20:13
everywhere and i know that’s not
20:15
hyperbolic to say and i think that’s why
20:17
we’re all here and speaking today
20:19
because we know we know these threats
20:21
can can spread very easily this
20:22
radicalism can easily spread to
20:25
neighboring countries which is like as
20:27
kamali mentioned which is already
20:28
hostile towards lgbt people and once it
20:31
gets a foothold in the world then
20:33
there’s nowhere going to be safe
20:34
everywhere lgbt people will be hiding
20:37
from these kind of fanatical people and
20:40
there’s nobody going to be left to
20:41
protect them
20:42
thank you
20:44
well
20:45
there is
20:46
there is hope because there are people
20:48
out there who do care and folks who are
20:50
working really hard to try to help them
20:54
um
20:55
mark do you want to talk a little bit
20:57
about what’s been going on here in the
20:58
us with the citizens movement to urge
21:02
the us government to do things something
21:04
that will protect
21:06
afghans
21:07
inside and outside and helping them to
21:10
get out from afghanistan
21:12
sure for those who haven’t seen it yet
21:15
we do have a 10-point plan that that
21:18
we’ve all developed together
21:20
and in coordination with other uh
21:22
refugee resettlement agencies
21:24
and we would urge you to look at that
21:26
10-point plan to sign your name to that
21:28
10-point plan but basically what it is
21:30
at its core is
21:33
a political document calling on the
21:35
united states
21:36
to
21:37
to
21:39
seize the moment show some political
21:42
leadership and commit to
21:45
supporting and resettling at-risk lgbtqi
21:48
afghan
21:49
refugees now we realize there’s there’s
21:52
not as much that the united states can
21:54
do right now in terms of evacuations
21:57
although certainly any support is still
21:59
welcome but the um the good news
22:03
if you can call it that is that slowly
22:05
there are at-risk lgbtqi afghans who are
22:09
starting to get out of
22:11
afghanistan
22:12
um
22:13
crossing into into other countries in
22:15
the region getting on flights that are
22:18
that are starting to resume from the
22:19
kabul airport and we need to ensure that
22:22
the u.s government and other friendly
22:24
governments are ready to receive those
22:27
individuals once they cross into a third
22:29
country and that we can process them for
22:32
uh refugee resettlement
22:34
as safely and quickly as possible
22:38
the ten point plan recognizes that in
22:41
many cases these refugees will not be
22:44
safe in the third country that they
22:47
immediately cross into um that we may
22:49
need to relocate them to safer country
22:52
where they their refugee claims can be
22:54
fully explored and processed where we
22:57
can um conduct full vetting to ensure
23:00
safety and security for individuals who
23:03
do come to the united states or or other
23:05
friendly countries
23:06
but the bottom line is we need to invest
23:10
the funds and the political capital
23:12
right now to meet these refugees as
23:14
they’re starting to come across the
23:16
border we can’t abandon them again once
23:19
they manage to get out of afghanistan
23:23
thank you mark um
23:25
so
23:26
talking of
23:28
finding ways to protect lgbtq
23:30
afghans one of the main parts of this
23:33
petition that you’ve mentioned is a call
23:36
to expand um special protections for
23:39
them as refugees
23:41
and
23:42
it’s not only civil society that’s
23:44
calling for that um u.s congress is also
23:47
doing so
23:48
and we’re
23:50
being joined now by congressman chris
23:52
pappas from new hampshire who recently
23:54
led on a letter dear colleague letter to
23:57
other uh
23:58
with other members of congress to
24:00
secretary blinken urging him to expand
24:04
special protective status to lgbtqi
24:07
refugees from afghanistan um welcome
24:11
representative pappas we honored that
24:13
you could join us today and we look
24:14
forward to hearing from your remarks
24:17
hi everyone i’m congressman chris pappas
24:19
from new hampshire thank you for joining
24:21
us today for hrc’s panel taking action
24:24
for lgbtqi afghan refugees i’m honored
24:28
to be here with you all to kick off this
24:30
discussion about a pressing issue that
24:33
couldn’t be more important to the lives
24:34
of thousands of people i want to thank
24:37
hrc for holding this and for many other
24:39
important discussions as well as to the
24:41
panelists today mark bromley from the
24:43
council for global equality kamali
24:46
powell from the rainbow railroad nemat
24:49
sadat an incredibly brave
24:51
lgbtqi afghan-american activist and our
24:54
moderator gene friedberg hrc’s director
24:57
of global partnerships
24:59
like all of us i watch the events in
25:01
afghanistan with a heavy heart they are
25:04
devastating to see unfold and we all
25:06
remain deeply concerned for the safety
25:09
the well-being and the livelihoods of
25:11
those who remain in afghanistan under
25:13
taliban rule we must do all we can to
25:15
ensure the safety and security of u.s
25:18
citizens and our afghan allies and
25:20
partners who stood with us for over two
25:22
decades
25:24
we must do all we can to ensure the
25:25
safety and security of women in
25:27
afghanistan who
25:29
under control of the taliban have
25:31
already seen their liberties and
25:33
freedoms eroded and their lives are
25:35
placed in jeopardy as a result and we
25:37
must do all we can to ensure the safety
25:39
and security of lgbtqi afghans with the
25:43
taliban’s takeover of the country lgbtqi
25:47
afghans face the prospect of a violent
25:49
death
25:50
sharia law already cemented in
25:52
afghanistan’s constitution
25:54
prohibits all forms of same-sex activity
25:57
and makes same-sex activity punishable
25:59
by death
26:01
just as it was for isis in iraq sharia
26:03
law is the taliban’s guiding compass as
26:06
it solidifies its rule over
26:07
afghanistan’s government and society
26:11
that’s why i led 63 of my house
26:13
colleagues in a letter to secretary
26:15
anthony blinken urging him to expand the
26:17
state department’s priority 2
26:19
designation to grant lgbtqi afghans
26:23
access to the united states refugee
26:24
admissions program
26:26
while the united states evacuated
26:28
thousands of afghans before the
26:30
withdrawal
26:31
lgbtqi afghans continue to live in fear
26:34
the united states has the power to
26:36
protect the lives of countless
26:38
individuals
26:40
who
26:41
face
26:42
living under a regime that threatens
26:43
their very existence and we’ve got to
26:45
use that power for good this is not some
26:48
abstract threat to lgbtqi afghans this
26:51
is a clear and present danger
26:53
in july a taliban judge promised that
26:56
once taliban forces had taken over the
26:58
country that they would implement sharia
27:00
law and seek to prosecute and execute
27:03
lgbtqi afghans he said and i quote
27:08
for homosexuals there can be two
27:10
punishments either stoning or he must
27:12
stand behind a wall that will fall down
27:15
on him
27:16
i know that should chill us all to our
27:18
core
27:19
and if there are those who don’t
27:20
understand the danger or need further
27:23
persuading i urge them to simply read
27:26
the words and hear the stories of
27:28
lgbtqii afghans themselves
27:31
laila a transgender woman in afghanistan
27:33
says quote i am terrified it’s like a
27:36
nightmare i don’t feel safe even in my
27:39
room i’m scared of the taliban when i
27:41
see them i feel they will know who i am
27:44
and they will come to beat me
27:45
kick me or send me to prison
27:48
as it has been reported in the
27:50
international press some transgender
27:52
women are growing beards while lesbians
27:54
have said they are feeling under
27:56
pressure to be quote more feminine
27:59
sunita a lesbian says quote if they
28:02
found out that i am a girl and a lesbian
28:04
it will make them angry they can rape
28:07
and kill me says sunita
28:09
a group of taliban
28:11
with guns she continues came to my house
28:14
after i left my home they spoke to my
28:16
family and told them to reveal my
28:19
whereabouts otherwise they will punish
28:22
everyone
28:23
while the bible administration has been
28:24
a champion of lgbtq plus rights in the
28:27
united states and abroad in the face of
28:29
the current reality in afghanistan more
28:32
is needed and it’s needed now
28:35
canada announced on august 14th that it
28:37
would resettle more than 20 000 afghan
28:39
citizens with an emphasis on protecting
28:42
lgbtqi afghans women and others
28:45
typically targeted by the taliban the
28:47
united states has yet to announce any
28:49
such policy
28:50
policy for lgbtqi afghans that’s why
28:54
we’re urging them to do just that and
28:56
why i’m so grateful of the work of hrc
28:59
and the panelists here today to keep
29:02
this conversation going we have to
29:04
better understand this crisis and help
29:07
us work toward a resolution that
29:08
protects lgbtqi afghans and their
29:11
families
29:12
thank you all so much
29:15
thank you thank you so much for joining
29:18
us today and we appreciate your efforts
29:20
to keep this issue alive
29:23
so
29:25
let me ask um
29:27
kamali a question we’ve now heard some
29:29
of the things which we can do as
29:31
citizens um but let me ask you
29:34
what are the five top things that
29:37
citizens out they’re listening and
29:40
others can do to help
29:42
expedite passage
29:44
for lgbtq refugees from afghanistan
29:48
protect them while they’re there
29:50
and help them in the resettlement
29:51
process once they get to other countries
29:57
yeah thanks for the question um
30:01
so
30:02
i think first of all um
30:05
you know signing on to the 10 point plan
30:08
is a simple and effective thing that
30:11
all hrc members can do to
30:14
ensure that the buying administration
30:16
understands that there is a large amount
30:19
of
30:20
members of the lgbqi community here in
30:22
the united states that
30:23
demand that
30:26
actions are taking place in order to
30:29
protect people at risk uh of course also
30:33
there’s a
30:36
one of the silver linings about this in
30:38
many crisis is that there are people who
30:41
are willing to step up and help and if
30:43
you go to welcome dot us
30:45
uh there’s a coalition of
30:48
organizations civil society members uh
30:51
that are
30:52
ready to step up and help protect
30:54
persons at risk
30:56
um
30:57
i think uh you know
30:59
uh
31:00
if you listening to my dinamat you know
31:03
that uh their
31:05
this situation
31:07
has require required folks to
31:10
uh
31:12
do some pretty extraordinary
31:15
uh
31:16
uh activism and support of people whose
31:18
lives are at risk
31:20
and so
31:21
you know following them out and
31:22
understanding firsthand
31:24
listening to what’s actually happening
31:27
to people at risk is really crucial um
31:30
to really understand uh just how dire
31:33
the situation is for afghans
31:35
um
31:36
uh
31:37
that’s the third thing um of course you
31:40
know you uh many people at hrc or
31:43
friends of rainbow railroad continue
31:45
going to supporting
31:47
um
31:48
our work and following the situation
31:50
widely uh but not just in afghanistan
31:53
and i really want to stress this because
31:55
you know
31:57
uh
31:58
it’s one thing to
32:00
really be concerned about situation
32:02
afghanistan and other countries while
32:04
it’s um in the media but it’s most
32:07
important that you continue to pay close
32:09
attention to these crises when it’s not
32:11
because when the the when the u.s media
32:15
turns its tension away from afghanistan
32:17
the people who are still there are going
32:19
to be further displaced and actually in
32:21
more danger and that leads to my fifth
32:23
and final point is that the time for
32:26
action is now and i’m gonna
32:29
say this very
32:31
clearly so that the membership can
32:33
understand
32:34
that
32:35
governments have the power to
32:39
move on this now
32:41
uh i’m gonna you know
32:44
i’m gonna
32:45
i agree with everything that mark says
32:47
but i’ll make it a slight adjustment
32:49
that yes while
32:51
the tools are limited at the moment
32:54
there are still tools at the us’s
32:55
disposal uh and the biggest tool right
32:58
now is actually
33:00
picking up the phone calling them out
33:02
and others and understanding that civil
33:05
society has
33:07
referred hundreds of people for
33:10
immediate relocation that’s the biggest
33:12
actual lift is identifying people for
33:16
the tools that we have at the disposal
33:18
and so one thing that every single
33:20
person who’s listening to this can do
33:21
right now is call your lawmaker and tell
33:24
them to put pressure on secretary
33:26
blinken to use all the tools at the
33:28
disposal to partner with civil society
33:31
members and organizations who can
33:34
who can refer and identify people at
33:37
risk right now for immediate
33:39
resettlement in the united states
33:42
thanks kimali let me just ask you a
33:45
quick follow-up um one of the things
33:47
that rainbow railroad does is you also
33:49
work with people who are being resettled
33:51
in this country
33:53
what um
33:54
what are some of the things
33:56
that u.s citizens can do
33:59
if
34:00
lgbtqi afghans come to their community
34:03
what can they do to invite them and to
34:05
help them i know some of this is on that
34:07
fabulous uh website welcome dot us but
34:11
maybe you could just talk a little bit
34:12
about that as well in the u.s and in
34:14
other third countries
34:16
so there’s many tools the u.s has at its
34:18
disposal to
34:20
help resettle refugees
34:22
um i think there needs to be
34:25
opportunities for just
34:27
immediate referrals uh into the united
34:30
states and find
34:32
mechanisms to do that but one one tool
34:35
that will likely be at um our disposal
34:38
is
34:39
uh
34:40
one that
34:42
that needs individuals in the united
34:46
states to help sponsor and support
34:48
people who arrive i think we all
34:50
recognize that being a refugee is hard
34:52
and being an lgbtqi refugee is
34:54
particularly hard especially in the
34:56
united states uh especially uh you know
34:59
in metropolitan areas where
35:02
you know support for lgbti people who
35:05
are from the united states is difficult
35:07
and so
35:08
what we should be preparing for
35:10
no matter where you are in the country
35:12
is can you
35:14
are you willing to help receive and
35:18
support lgqi persons that means
35:20
potentially helping sponsor individuals
35:22
and our friends at immigration equality
35:25
and other organizations are really
35:27
looking at tools to allow uh citizens to
35:31
come to the united states be partnered
35:33
with a sponsor welcoming community but
35:35
that means resources that means you
35:38
gotta understand you know
35:39
if you
35:41
you know following up the things that
35:42
namak was saying you could understand
35:44
that when if a person has managed to
35:46
escape
35:47
once they arrive to the united states
35:48
they’re gonna have nothing on their
35:50
person right they fled under duress uh
35:52
and that means real support uh
35:56
to help with the trauma
35:58
from escaping um death and violence um
36:01
just to help rebuild their lives and to
36:04
adjust to being a citizen of the united
36:05
states
36:07
thank you so there are things that
36:09
people can do
36:12
i think that’s important i think there
36:13
are things that people can do and
36:15
and
36:16
you know being silent is not one of them
36:20
that’s probably the biggest message
36:22
so as we wrap up our conversation um
36:27
neymar i’m going to ask you what are
36:28
your final thoughts about
36:31
how these steps will might give hope to
36:35
lgbtq africans who are still inside the
36:38
country and who may be
36:41
either looking you know and looking to
36:43
get out or if they can’t in the short
36:46
run knowing that there are options for
36:48
them going forward
36:50
yeah i mean you know
36:51
as every day passes you know afghanistan
36:54
i kind of liken it it’s becoming like an
36:56
islamic north korea you know every day
36:58
that the borders are getting sealed uh
37:01
you know the communication and also the
37:03
what the internet and mobile
37:05
communication the taliban are tampering
37:06
that we saw that like for example in
37:08
pine ship problems it completely shut it
37:10
down so
37:11
they’re they’re tapping into these lgbt
37:14
groups um they’re tracking members of
37:16
lgbtqia community by geolocation i know
37:19
this because several people in my group
37:21
who escaped invaded capture they were
37:23
tracked even after they were hiding so
37:25
when people say like why didn’t they get
37:27
out why are they still there they how
37:29
would they do that you know it’s very
37:31
impossible a lot of these people do not
37:32
even have passports so they don’t even
37:34
have valid passport how does a
37:35
transgender person who has on their
37:38
passport mail go to a passport office
37:40
once the taliban starts issuing
37:42
passwords that’s recognized and say hey
37:44
i’d like to get a passport and then
37:46
looks like a female they turn themselves
37:47
in they’re going to get that’s like a
37:48
death with so when people say you know
37:51
how why didn’t they why did they wait to
37:53
the last minute they should have left
37:54
before it was not possible to leave
37:56
before lgbtqi people were being deported
37:59
even if they reached europe because they
38:00
said you came from a liberated country
38:02
you came we went and liberated
38:04
afghanistan there’s nato there there’s
38:05
u.s there and we know that’s not true
38:08
they were still being persecuted quietly
38:10
uh and killed and fined and imprisoned
38:13
and raped in all those horrific stories
38:15
but now it’s like at least under that
38:17
regime they could find a way to to get
38:20
out here there’s no outlet so at least
38:22
right now if this 10-point plan gets
38:24
passed it will ensure them like it will
38:27
give them some hope that you know what
38:28
if there’s a lifeline of support if we
38:30
can manage somehow
38:32
muster up whatever willpower and
38:34
resources we have to get out of this
38:36
country even to a hostile neighboring
38:39
country then you know what then we can
38:41
survive we’ll be able to make it
38:43
otherwise it’s like if we don’t pass
38:45
this plan it’s like they’re just going
38:46
to start giving up and when we’re
38:48
talking about how many people like the
38:49
kinsey study says about 10 is is lgbtq
38:53
so in a country of 40 million people
38:55
we’re talking like upwards of four
38:57
million people and so the the list that
39:00
you know rainbow railroad has my list of
39:02
about 450 people and rainbow railroads
39:05
and everybody else is this is like a
39:06
little over a thousand people so we’re
39:08
just scratching the surface we’re not
39:09
even like we’re at 0.01 of what the
39:12
potential of the lgbtqia community is
39:14
but these are the people who are at with
39:17
the front lines in fighting and
39:18
championing for lgbtqi rights if they
39:21
get out they can be a force multiplied
39:23
they can be provide so much uh oxygen
39:26
for the people inside the country they
39:27
can help
39:28
do they can they can do the work that
39:30
we’re doing and support their friends
39:32
their communities their comrades so
39:34
that’s all i’m asking for i have a
39:36
gofundme page that i started if you
39:38
would please
39:39
i urge you every dollar you spend every
39:41
donation you make whether small big it
39:44
really will go a long way you can find
39:45
it on my social media pages
39:48
i would really
39:49
need your support because a lot of
39:51
organizations are swamped everybody’s
39:53
dealing with an entire country falling
39:55
so
39:56
um a lot of these organizations it’s
39:58
like
39:59
they’re telling us you know what we
40:00
can’t really support lgbt communicate
40:02
because we’re already helping other
40:02
people so the lgbt community at the end
40:05
of the day has to be
40:06
sadly to say it has to be lgbt people
40:09
coming to the rest of lgbtq people
40:11
because
40:13
if we don’t support our own community no
40:15
one else is going to do it
40:17
thank you
40:18
thank you nima um a plea from the heart
40:21
and i think the message that comes from
40:24
this panel overall is that you can do
40:27
something
40:28
the time is now
40:29
there are organizations that desperately
40:32
need your help there are things which
40:34
you as individuals can do
40:36
can sign that petition go to that
40:38
website double welcome dot us it so many
40:42
resources there what you can do
40:45
listen to activists like namat
40:48
call your lawmakers
40:50
call on them to push the us to take
40:53
every step to
40:55
identify and refer people and get them
40:57
out the folks who want to come out so
41:00
do something and do it now i think that
41:03
is the call that’s emerging from this
41:06
conversation
41:07
i want to thank
41:09
each one of our panelists mark
41:11
kemali so much for joining us today for
41:15
giving of yourselves for the work that
41:17
you do every day i want to thank all the
41:20
folks behind the scenes who helped make
41:22
this conversation possible
41:24
and i want to thank each one of you the
41:27
viewers out there for being here for
41:30
being present for listening and above
41:32
all for taking action
41:34
thank you very much and
41:37
good day good evening good night to you
41:39
all

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***

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