Dr. Paul Miller was live on our show talking about his article “The School to Prison Pipeline“.
We have to start with equity. Equity doesn’t always mean equal.
During our conversation, Dr. Miller talked about:
– His experience with young people during the pandemic
– Being successful with his students with two-thirds of the funding that public school receives
– Systems that he and his team have put in place to set his students up for success
– His message for parents who are not happy with at pandemic schooling of their child(ren)
– The background behind the article
– Some ways that the education system is failing many African Americans and some of the ways that the education system is holding African American students back
– The importance of building systems that working for Black and Brown children in school
– The low graduation rate of African American males and some of his thoughts about this situation and the impact that the pandemic has had on this situation
– Some reasons why so many Black men ending up in prison and what can be done to change this
– His thoughts on some of the challenges that American public schools are having
– Some things that Black parents can do to produce better outcomes for their child(ren) in regards to school
– Black students and special education
– If the education system is concerned about the school to prison pipeline
– Having a system to evaluate teachers performance in public schools
Listen to the audio-only version:
Watch the full conversation via YouTube
About Paul Miller, Ed.D.:
Dr. Paul Miller is the Principal and CEO of Green Tech High Charter School, a highly successful school for boys in Albany, NY. An expert in urban education, Dr. Miller has specialized in school reform and redesign for over 20 years, counseling school officials and administrators on effective strategies to increase performance among black males and establish a culture of success. He has committed his life to educating and empowering low-income urban youth with the intention to facilitate change and undo the trend of academic underachievement that often plagues young black men from the inner city. The passion did not begin with his professional career, but was implanted in him as a youth growing up in the projects of Rochester, NY. Similar to many of his students, Dr. Miller understands the challenges that often knock young minority men off-course and hinder their ability to reach their full potential. However, he teaches students not to be victims, but to use adversity as fuel to succeed and rise above their circumstances.
Since taking over Green Tech in 2012, Dr. Miller has turned the school into one of the best in New York State. Under his leadership, graduation rates have soared – reaching an impressive 95% with a 100% college acceptance rate for graduates. In addition, students have earned over $25 million in scholarships, compared to only $200,000 before he arrived. Dr. Miller has been recognized by the City of Albany as a Man of Valor, and as one of the top 40 Under 40 African American Leaders by the City of Rochester, among many other accomplishments. He is often invited to speak to students and to offer strategic counsel to school leaders on improving school systems and more effectively engaging students. Dr. Miller has emerged as one of the top and most highly sought-after urban education leaders in the nation.
You can connect with Dr. Miller via:
https://www.paulmilleredd.com/
UrbaneEducation.com
Transcript provided by YouTube:
[Music]
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[Music]
01:13
what is up everybody it’s dr vibe here
01:16
host and producer award-winning doctor
01:18
vibe show the home of epic conversations
01:20
i’m the host of epic conversations
01:22
2020 best news broadcast
01:26
podcast and also 2018 innovation award
01:29
winner given out by the canadian ethnic
01:30
media association
01:32
and also once a month i host the only
01:34
online broadcast
01:35
in the world for dads and fathers that
01:38
is sponsored by
01:39
dove men care it’s also co-sponsored by
01:41
dad central canada’s national
01:43
fatherhood organization as always i’d
01:45
like to say you’re blessed highly
01:47
favored a magnet for miracles
01:48
and the solution for someone’s problem
01:50
we’re broadcasting
01:52
live on february 23rd february is coming
01:55
to the end but we’re gonna
01:57
make it count and uh or in many places
02:00
or at least in north america it’s black
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history month
02:03
and one of the areas that is of always
02:06
concern when it comes to blacks
02:08
is the school-to-prison pipeline and we
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have a returning friend here who’s going
02:12
to really delve down
02:13
deeper into the whole school the prison
02:16
pipeline issue
02:17
his name is dr paul miller he’s
02:19
principal and ceo of green tech
02:21
high charter school a highly successful
02:23
school
02:24
for boys in albany new york he’s an
02:26
expert in urban education
02:28
he’s specialized in school reform and
02:30
redesigned for over 20 years
02:32
counseling school officials and
02:34
administrators on effective
02:36
strategies to increase the performance
02:38
along amongst black males
02:40
and establish a culture of success he
02:43
has
02:43
commented committed his life to
02:46
educating and empowering low-income
02:48
urban youth with the intention to
02:50
facilitate change and undo
02:52
the trend of academic underachievement
02:54
that often plagues young black men
02:56
from the inner city the passion did not
02:59
begin
03:00
with his professional career but was
03:02
implanted him
03:03
in him as a youth growing up in the
03:05
project projects of rochester new york
03:08
similar to many of his students dr
03:10
miller understands the challenges that
03:12
often knock
03:12
young minority men off course and enter
03:15
their ability to reach their full
03:16
potential
03:17
however he teaches students not to be
03:20
victims
03:21
but to use adversity as a fuel to
03:23
succeed and rise above their
03:24
circumstances
03:26
we are blessed and highly favored to
03:28
have dr miller
03:29
here tonight he’s going to be sharing
03:30
about a recent article called the school
03:32
to prison pipeline
03:34
so let us welcome for the first time but
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not the last time dr paul miller how are
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you
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i’m doing well dr vibe how are you doing
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tonight blessed and favor great to see
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you again it’s been a minute
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yes sir good to see you guys bro
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you’re doing fine and it’s good seeing
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you as always what’s been going on in
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the beginning of this year for you
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hey man just uh busy we we’ve been
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working towards keeping kids educated
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during this pandemic
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you know that’s that’s been the big
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thing as far as
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uh not having students lose or create
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these educational gaps
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and make sure that they still get what
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they need and
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it’s been a blessing we’ve been doing
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really well uh we’re actually out
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performing
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other schools in the state by about 150
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percent
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wow it’s a blessing brother that we’re
04:21
we’re putting in the work got a great
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team of people who are
04:24
doing what they uh got to do on a daily
04:26
basis for our kids
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um that i just finished my last my third
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book
04:31
which is still got to go through the
04:33
editing process and some other things
04:34
but that’ll be coming out
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hopefully within this uh 2021 year
04:39
as it goes through the publication
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process
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so i just been busy man working and
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trying to
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working always to get better
04:48
excellent to hear you shed some
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interesting light here because
04:52
many of the reports i hear about
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education
04:56
especially education of our young people
04:59
it’s been
04:59
it’s a challenge it’s an uphill road
05:01
what is making
05:02
your experience with young people your
05:04
young people different
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well what’s different is is that uh
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able to build systems that work so we
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build systems that work
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and then we implement them to fidelity
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and they’re based off of research
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they’re based off of practice and a lot
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of it is just common
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common sense but quite honestly what’s
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worked
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the most for us is that we’re able to
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align virtual school
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and we’ve tried to make it almost as
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consistent as possible
05:34
with regular school so virtual school is
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completely virtual right now
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but what we’re able to do is again with
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building a consistent system
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it looks like regular school so kids go
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to eight periods a day
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uh they have a lunch break in between
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they have
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a system that they’re utilizing for
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their curriculum
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but they have teachers who are actually
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teaching in school
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so the teachers are coming to work and
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students are at home
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uh the teachers are teaching from their
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classrooms there’s an expectation and
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the criteria for students that they have
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to follow as well there’s a
06:08
consistent curriculum across the board
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there’s social emotional
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help that’s built in and as a
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administrative team
06:16
and as the leaders in the building our
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goal is to push and model the way and
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it really is just the whole system that
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that actually works
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and like i said right now analyze the
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data i believe
06:28
that we have uh i believe we have almost
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80 percent of our kids passing
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where the average right now in the state
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i think
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is about 30 30 33
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is passing uh during this pandemic and
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again
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it’s that the systems
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work uh okay so let me interject your
06:49
systems now
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is it your systems are working why
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because is there
06:54
money for these systems compared to
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other schools is
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from from where you’re looking from your
07:01
lens where are the gaps with the thirty
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percent
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i i got two-thirds of the funding that
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other people get
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so it has nothing to do with money with
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uh uh planning preparation
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uh it has to do with creativity it has
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to do with consistency it has to do with
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accountability
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and and follow-up and again we had a
07:24
we have systems in our daily school so
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our daily school is built off of
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building relationships
07:29
it’s built off of how we deliver
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teaching and learning it’s built off of
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uh how we use data and form
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instructional decisions
07:37
and then it’s built off how do we hold
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everybody accountable so there’s
07:40
items that we do every day based off of
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those four pillars
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and on those four pillars we transition
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those over to virtual learning
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and we tweak them to make sure that
07:49
they’re fit for virtual learning
07:52
another article that i wrote that people
07:54
can go out to my
07:55
to my blog at urbaineducation.com
07:59
and it’s on the five five key points for
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virtual learning
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and i break it down based off of
08:06
everything that
08:07
people might want to know about virtual
08:09
learning and
08:10
we take these systems and they’re not
08:12
necessary actually
08:14
uh we’re probably spending the least
08:15
amount of money that we’ve spent
08:17
in a school year currently like
08:20
currently we’re saving a ton of money
08:21
because the kids aren’t in school
08:23
um but we are still providing them a
08:26
quality education
08:27
where they’re able to get everything
08:28
that they need and it just really comes
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down to
08:32
um i can’t say it more consistency and
08:35
where the gaps are coming from
08:37
is that what we had to eliminate
08:40
the obviously the technology gaps that
08:42
were there
08:43
so we provided we did have to spend
08:45
money up front so we did provide
08:47
chromebooks to every student
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uh we did also we just reallocated the
08:51
budget appropriately based on
08:53
covid and there was also some grants and
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some other
08:56
funding that we were able to help do
08:58
that with but um
09:00
again we provided technology for every
09:03
student
09:03
and then after we provided the
09:05
technology for every student we also if
09:07
they needed a hot spot we also provided
09:09
that
09:09
so we had to level the playing field
09:11
because many students
09:12
don’t have access and equitability to
09:15
those devices
09:16
and so we had to do that and create this
09:19
um
09:20
create this even playing field so now
09:21
that it’s even
09:23
and every student has either access to
09:25
internet
09:26
or a device now we have to make sure
09:29
that
09:29
we educate them uh consistently and
09:31
fairly across the board
09:33
and i think what’s happening is that
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there’s a lot of schools in a lot of
09:37
places that aren’t willing to take on
09:38
certain fights
09:40
so i’ll give you an example our students
09:43
have we have a code of conduct that we
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utilize in person
09:47
so when a student walks in our door they
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have to follow this code of conduct
09:51
there’s the same code of conduct for
09:52
virtual and we’re not going to make
09:54
excuses for students and
09:56
and assume that they can’t do it because
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they’re home and there’s other things
09:59
going on
10:01
now will we help them will we go the
10:02
extra mile every friday we do home
10:04
visits
10:05
i’ve done over 100 home 150 home visits
10:07
myself
10:08
as the ceo and principal since the
10:10
beginning of the school year
10:11
so it’s not about not supporting them
10:15
but there’s expectations that they’re
10:16
going to have to meet and they’re going
10:17
to have to rise up to these expectations
10:19
so yes they have to have their camera on
10:21
yes they have to be on time
10:23
uh yes they have to uh
10:26
they have to dress appropriately yes
10:28
they have to
10:29
do all of these things and if they don’t
10:31
we’re following up
10:33
so when they’re doing the right thing we
10:34
follow up with positive and we there’s
10:36
interventions i mean our middle school
10:38
kids are getting uh items and
10:40
different donated toys that we have sent
10:42
home as recognition or whatever
10:45
they might be to recognize and award
10:46
them but when students aren’t doing it
10:48
we have consequences as well
10:50
there’s a virtual detention that’s put
10:52
in place and there’s different steps
10:53
that we follow
10:54
and the biggest piece is we have people
10:56
following up on it to make sure that
10:58
students do it and
10:59
their families follow-up and the
11:00
communication with the families
11:02
the communication with the families has
11:03
to be bigger than ever
11:05
um and we just end up trying to make
11:09
sure
11:09
that we do this comprehensive model that
11:12
really make sure that they’re getting an
11:14
education that they still need
11:16
and they’re actually doing quite well
11:18
based on our data
11:20
also christie white is saying here we
11:22
need this in
11:23
our communities and she’s a indigenous
11:26
children’s author so she’s fully
11:28
uh verifying and agreeing with what
11:30
you’re saying
11:31
now because and i don’t want to spend
11:34
too much time
11:35
but i think it is on our on our main
11:37
subject tonight
11:38
the school the prison pipeline because
11:41
obviously we may have some heightened
11:45
entrance into the prison pipeline
11:47
because of the lack of
11:49
funding or the lack of success during
11:51
this period of time
11:53
what would you want to say or what would
11:55
you say best advice
11:57
for parents who are feeling that the
11:59
system is not serving their children
12:02
well at this time in the time of
12:04
pandemic
12:07
wow that’s a loaded question um well
12:09
you’re the you’re the loaded gun man so
12:11
that’s um
12:12
you’re the man tonight so no it’s all
12:15
good
12:15
i appreciate it so um as far as
12:19
that because if the systems are not
12:22
helping their children um
12:24
so one is they gotta put up the fight
12:27
so don’t you can’t roll over and play
12:30
dead here and just allow it to happen to
12:32
your kids and let it be okay
12:34
so you gotta use your voice but part of
12:36
using their voice is also taking
12:38
responsibility
12:39
um and taking responsibility for what
12:42
you can control as a parent
12:44
so you can as a parent if that child’s
12:46
in your household
12:48
they need to shut their devices off at a
12:50
certain time and go to bed
12:51
they need to not be distracted there
12:53
needs to not be
12:54
excuses they need to be uh focused and
12:58
as them being in your household
13:01
there’s some pieces that a parent might
13:02
not be able or equipped to do
13:05
which is okay and understandable but
13:08
then
13:08
as a parent that kind of building
13:09
responsibility has to be
13:11
is advocate and get the help that your
13:13
child needs
13:14
but not after the fact it’s being on top
13:16
of it and
13:18
and pushing the school making the school
13:19
do their job um
13:21
now is every school doing what they’re
13:23
supposed to be doing though
13:25
uh is every school following a system
13:28
and are there a lot of messes going on
13:30
out here in this country absolutely
13:32
i’m sure maybe i don’t know if canada is
13:34
similar or not but
13:36
what i can tell you is is that control
13:39
what you can control as a parent
13:40
so control the factors and help your
13:42
student to be the best student clear
13:44
you might not have a fancy table at home
13:47
but clear off a corner of something
13:49
clear off a corner and give that give
13:50
your child a space to work
13:54
make it a priority and show this your
13:57
child that is a priority
13:58
and yes still fight with that powers
14:01
that be to make sure it happens but
14:02
control the factors that you can control
14:04
and that’s what goes on in the household
14:08
and chris is saying yes absolutely so
14:10
let’s um
14:11
turn the corner and get to what we were
14:13
supposed to be chatting about tonight
14:14
but i think it’s
14:16
important and i think both subjects are
14:18
quote are related
14:19
they’re related with each other they’re
14:21
feeding each other
14:23
yeah now let’s talk about this article
14:26
you wrote the school to prison pipeline
14:28
uh why write about it at this time
14:32
well you you know i have convened a team
14:35
of writers
14:36
so i i’m also as i shared i’m an author
14:39
and a writer um i speak also
14:43
and but my main goal is to get the
14:45
message
14:46
out there and how do we create change
14:49
for
14:49
education and for systems and for equity
14:52
and so i’ve convened the team of writers
14:55
who are very very talented in
14:56
every month we have a different theme
14:59
and we’re putting together uh pieces on
15:02
a weekly basis as a rotational piece
15:04
and so uh this the month that this piece
15:07
was written in was about equity and
15:09
equity and education
15:10
and so understanding that one of the
15:13
most inequitable pieces that there is is
15:15
the school-to-prison pipeline
15:17
it was something that needs to be
15:18
written about i mean
15:20
you know all the things that are going
15:21
on in this country and
15:23
you know you you reply you talk you talk
15:27
about it
15:27
you know and it’s all over and there’s
15:30
injustice
15:30
for people that look like us and so and
15:33
for many others as well
15:34
but um it just needs to be talked about
15:37
it needs to be
15:38
delighted something needs to be done
15:40
because what’s happening
15:42
is in injustice and it also
15:45
it’s it connects back to the the
15:48
previous piece
15:49
because there’s a lot of schools that
15:51
aren’t putting in the places
15:52
in the pieces that are needed and so the
15:55
educational gap is going to become
15:57
larger
15:57
and as we know if students don’t
15:59
graduate uh their chances
16:02
are going to be highly likely that
16:04
they’re gonna end up dead or in gym
16:06
and so especially for black males and so
16:10
with this gap increasing uh it’s our
16:13
responsibility as leaders
16:15
and as educational leaders to make sure
16:17
that we’re providing
16:18
the right type of education and if you
16:20
don’t know then you need to ask somebody
16:22
and that’s the frustrating part of
16:23
education because a lot of times people
16:25
won’t ask other people for help and it’s
16:27
like this big secret or taboo
16:29
that you don’t want to let people know
16:30
that you don’t know something but if you
16:32
don’t know
16:32
and you’re failing your kids shame on
16:34
you like that shouldn’t happen you’re
16:36
increasing this price on it
16:39
christian white is saying i i am a mom
16:42
of an indigenous son who is in prison
16:45
so i’m sure she’s she’s leaning to learn
16:48
a lot
16:48
from you in regards to this conversation
16:51
piece
16:52
and i love how you started off using an
16:54
analogy of two sprinters
16:56
right can you give some background on
16:59
that why did you come up
17:00
how did you come up and why did you come
17:01
up with that analogy to start the
17:03
article with
17:05
well you know i i saw a meme and in this
17:08
meme
17:09
you you saw two you saw a sprinter a
17:12
and sprinter b and sprinter a had a
17:15
clear path
17:16
like they they had like their regular
17:18
normal hurdles
17:19
so anyone who’s trained uh you can train
17:22
to hop over these hurdles and the
17:24
hurdles as you’re running them
17:26
the more you practice the better you get
17:28
at hopping over these hurdles
17:30
and so any trained athlete who runs
17:32
track
17:33
uh who does the hurdles as an event
17:36
becomes somewhat familiar with that and
17:38
then you had athlete bree
17:40
or sprinter b who not only had hurdles
17:43
but there was all these other obstacles
17:45
in their path no matter how much they
17:47
trained there were other factors
17:48
so there’s a barbed wire there’s
17:50
alligator ponds there’s a higher hurdle
17:52
you’re running with sandbags and this is
17:54
what it’s like to be black
17:56
in in america or north america for the
17:59
sake of your audience
18:00
and on top of being black with that
18:04
now make that black and trying to be
18:06
educated
18:07
because at the end of the day uh this
18:10
country
18:11
has especially in the united states here
18:13
has been founded on racism
18:15
there’s been founded on slavery on the
18:17
backs of black people
18:18
and then what has happened and what has
18:20
occurred throughout these years
18:23
yeah there’s been slavery then there we
18:25
went to what we’ve got
18:26
to jim crow then we went to civil rights
18:29
and do you think
18:30
as i stated in the article that after
18:32
all of this oppression
18:34
that the master just said after the
18:36
brown versus border education yes we’re
18:37
going to give them
18:38
everything they deserve for the last 200
18:40
years hell no
18:42
that’s not what was said no one
18:45
said yeah we’re going to give them we’re
18:47
going to give them everything they need
18:48
we’re no we’re the law says we have to
18:51
provide this we’re going to provide this
18:52
to the bare minimum
18:54
and we’re going to look this for ways to
18:56
still
18:57
make sure that our
19:00
our culture doesn’t die in our culture
19:03
of oppression
19:04
our culture of we can look at different
19:06
instances
19:07
in society that have created oppressive
19:10
conditions
19:11
and that’s what what’s happened with
19:13
schools and education
19:18
[Music]
19:19
wow so if huh
19:23
so and i love another line i love from
19:25
the article is that
19:27
black people are the sprinter b and
19:30
it always seems that
19:33
and i’m gonna ask you this question has
19:36
the education system
19:38
in your opinion not all of it but
19:41
been purposely keeping black students
19:45
especially black boys back
19:46
and if you do believe that what do you
19:48
feel is the reasoning for that
19:52
well i i i definitely have i believe
19:55
that there’s some
19:56
insights to how that has been true look
19:58
at uh
19:59
we can start with redlining okay so we
20:02
look at redlining
20:03
and we look at not having the ability to
20:08
to buy houses in certain neighborhoods
20:10
in certain areas
20:11
made it so poverty was concentrated and
20:13
what that did was put
20:14
a bunch of people who looked like you
20:16
and i in certain neighborhoods and areas
20:18
with no money and no ability
20:20
to move forward because the american
20:22
dream
20:23
is supposed to be to go to college be
20:25
able to come back and get a career and
20:27
have a
20:28
house with the picket fence and 2.5 uh
20:31
you know kids and
20:32
cars and all of those other things but
20:34
if you can’t live that dream
20:36
because you are are stuck
20:39
or you’re put in a place where you have
20:41
to run with sandbags
20:43
and you have to run through alligator
20:44
ponds and some other things
20:46
now don’t get me wrong i’m not going to
20:47
make excuses
20:49
because as black people it’s our job
20:52
to not allow that and to find ways to
20:54
get out of that
20:55
and to fight through it but is it
20:57
happening yeah sure it’s still happening
20:59
so at the end of the day when those
21:02
things are happening hold it back
21:03
the system wasn’t designed for success i
21:06
mean right now
21:07
if you look at it they’re by third and
21:09
fourth grade they’re determining how
21:11
many prisons need to be built by reading
21:12
the mask
21:13
that’s so true and so it was never
21:16
designed
21:17
because if we fail
21:20
uh we help improve a capitalistic
21:24
society
21:26
you know we jails are built money is
21:28
spent um
21:29
you look at privatized prisons you look
21:31
at even uh
21:33
public prisons and institutions and the
21:34
money that gets spent on those and it’s
21:36
not all
21:37
about that but overall the systems were
21:39
just not built or designed
21:41
to be successful and to educate us
21:45
you look at with that funding and even
21:47
the redlining and i go back to that you
21:49
look at districts
21:51
that are in impoverished neighborhoods
21:53
they don’t receive the same type of tax
21:55
money
21:56
that a district in a wealthier
21:59
neighborhood receives
22:01
and so they have less funding they have
22:04
less ability
22:05
to be able to provide resources and then
22:09
the next step is when they have those
22:11
resources that they don’t have them they
22:12
don’t know what the hell to do with them
22:15
and so it’s a complex problem
22:20
yeah christie is saying it’s one failed
22:22
system to another
22:24
and they combine and that’s why you know
22:27
what i feel
22:28
that i’m and i’m passionate about and
22:31
what i want to empower other leaders is
22:34
how to build systems that work for kids
22:36
especially black and brown kids and and
22:39
be
22:40
able to develop them and make sure that
22:42
they’re successful
22:43
i and that’s that’s that’s the goal you
22:46
know if you look at it i
22:47
i have over 90 percent of my boys are
22:50
are in poverty i have 97 black males but
22:54
we average a 95
22:55
graduation rate every year 100
22:58
acceptance to college
22:59
and and i say all that not to brag or to
23:01
be i say that humbly
23:03
but i say it to say it’s about making
23:06
sure that you’re
23:08
you’re matching research practice and
23:10
theory and then you’re going the extra
23:12
mile
23:12
to make sure that those items are put in
23:16
place
23:17
for kids and make sure that they work in
23:20
regards to of one another thing you put
23:23
out in this article
23:24
that 59
23:29
only 59 of black males graduate
23:32
nationally in your country and that’s 21
23:36
less than white counterparts when you
23:39
hear that statistic what does that make
23:41
you say how does that make you feel
23:44
that makes me feel like we need to stop
23:46
the politics and the political
23:48
uh bs that adults do and start making
23:51
sure that kids are
23:52
successful like cut the crap we’re not
23:56
we’re failing we’re failing our young
23:58
men what we’re doing is we’re leaving
24:00
them we’re leaving forty percent of our
24:01
kids unprotected we’re leaving four to
24:03
forty forty one percent of our kids out
24:06
to the wolves
24:06
to be able to uh increase their ability
24:10
to go to jail or become dead
24:14
you know and that’s what’s happening is
24:16
because as
24:17
adults the job isn’t getting done to
24:20
make sure they’re successful people
24:22
aren’t fighting and scrapping because
24:23
and not everyone cares you know and
24:26
there’s people who do care and there’s
24:27
people who are fighting
24:28
but sometimes they’re fighting against a
24:29
machine and they’re fighting against the
24:31
politics of a school district or the
24:33
politics of a school board
24:35
whether it’s public charter or any of
24:36
those things i don’t care about that
24:38
what i care about is good schools
24:39
so how do we make schools better and
24:43
and then take the time to admit also
24:45
that if you’re not doing it right
24:47
then ask for help let’s get it at the
24:49
end of the day failing shouldn’t be an
24:51
option for our kids
24:54
this is this is bad it’s it’s not a good
24:57
situation so how do you feel
24:59
the pandemic has affected those numbers
25:03
oh i think the pandemic is going to
25:05
create a huge
25:06
well it’s going to do two things so
25:08
there’s going to be larger gaps
25:10
so there’s going to be larger gaps of
25:12
kids who have learning deficiencies
25:14
and then there may be in some cases
25:17
there may be some inflation of students
25:19
who are being passed on
25:21
because some of the standards have been
25:23
reduced and
25:25
i know that there are some school
25:26
districts that have just moved kids on
25:28
i i have quite a a few people who have
25:31
complained
25:32
parents who have complained that their
25:35
student was just moved on
25:37
and i believe one lady spoke to me and
25:40
said that
25:41
her child was in another district and
25:44
she
25:44
had uh like he just wasn’t performing
25:47
there was no
25:48
work there was nothing getting done but
25:50
he moved on to the next grade
25:51
and i’m not saying this should be about
25:53
holding kids back but what it should be
25:55
about is
25:56
educating them properly and not just
25:57
moving them on because the standards
25:59
are going underneath the radar because
26:02
people are all
26:03
uh you know get a little bit of a pass
26:05
because of of covid
26:07
and that’s going to create more of an
26:09
issue
26:10
the issue is going to be that we got a
26:12
bunch of people who are getting moved on
26:14
who don’t know
26:15
what they’re being moved on from because
26:17
they’re not capable or able
26:19
to uh they don’t understand and the gaps
26:21
in deficiencies
26:23
are larger but then there’s also going
26:25
to be people who
26:26
who are just uh falling apart and you
26:29
know the social emotional is a huge part
26:31
of this
26:32
because this is tough for kids with the
26:34
isolation and not being
26:36
with their friends and not uh being able
26:39
to be in the school sometimes school is
26:40
the safest place that they have
26:42
and so it becomes a very very difficult
26:46
um piece with this pandemic that is
26:49
affecting kids
26:52
and again as a school that’s why those
26:54
five key
26:55
components that i talked about one one
26:57
of those being
26:58
the social emotional pieces um has to
27:01
happen
27:02
like we are we mandate our kids if
27:05
they’re failing classes they have an
27:06
advisory meeting with their advisors
27:08
that they have to attend where they’re
27:09
discussing it’s goal setting and doing
27:11
social emotional
27:12
um you know check-ins and health and
27:15
well-being
27:16
those things have to happen if you want
27:18
to make sure the kids are still
27:19
successful during this time point
27:22
interesting christie white is saying
27:24
indigenous people in canada are six
27:26
percent
27:27
of the whole population with 30 percent
27:30
30 to 50 percent percentage of the
27:32
incarcerated men in education
27:34
statistics statistics so even worse so
27:36
she completely gets it
27:38
she understands where you’re coming from
27:41
what
27:41
what has what is why are we
27:45
having so many or many not so many
27:48
many black men end up in prison
27:51
why why do you think is it the home
27:55
that’s not succeeding
27:56
is it the education system not
27:57
succeeding where are the gaps
28:00
well you know my in my second book we
28:03
need to do better changing the mindset
28:06
of uh children through our communities
28:09
through family community and education
28:11
you know i kind of talk about this
28:13
so and again it’s called we need to do
28:15
better and
28:17
it’s a mindset so part of the mindset
28:20
is that we were
28:24
told uh we were given a mindset from
28:27
inception of being placed in this
28:29
country and it was be
28:31
burned and and put into us and passed
28:34
through
28:35
our dna go into what that looked like as
28:39
far as that
28:40
at some point in time if you’d like to
28:42
but with that mindset
28:44
that mindset has developed and it that
28:46
that mentality has developed
28:48
and then it’s perpetuated through
28:50
poverty it’s perpetuated through racist
28:52
systems
28:53
it’s perpetuated through a lack of of uh
28:56
resources and so it’s about us reversing
28:59
that curse it’s about us breaking that
29:01
mindset
29:02
it’s about because we can talk about all
29:05
of this
29:06
and you and i can have this conversation
29:08
about schools but if i’m going to be
29:09
real
29:10
the majority of people who are listening
29:13
are educational leaders
29:15
the likelihood of them going back and
29:17
doing something different is probably
29:18
slim to none
29:19
but as an individual you have more
29:22
opportunity and chance
29:24
to change yourself and change your own
29:26
mindset so
29:27
you have the ability to change your own
29:29
mindset and reverse that curse
29:32
to change that learn helplessness and
29:34
turn that in by forming new habits
29:36
rituals and routines because the way you
29:37
think is the way you act
29:38
and how you act is what you attract so
29:42
you know again having turning those
29:44
thoughts into things
29:46
and turning them and reversing them by
29:47
building new habits and routines and
29:49
valuing education
29:50
so as a black man so as a like i’ll give
29:54
you an example
29:55
so quite often you see students with a
29:58
pen sagging right
30:00
and so when you see a student with his
30:02
pants sagging
30:04
yeah i don’t know if that’s a canadian
30:06
thing or not it is true
30:08
but um you see a student with a pen
30:10
sagging and you ask them where they come
30:12
from
30:13
they said that comes from jail right
30:15
that’s what they say
30:17
but the education behind that is it’s
30:19
not from jail that’s not where it came
30:21
from that’s a prison mindset that it
30:22
came from
30:23
but where it originated from was the
30:26
slave master
30:27
did something called breaking the book
30:29
the slave master
30:30
would take the male slave and
30:34
put him in the open or public would pull
30:36
his pants down would sodomize him
30:38
to show him that your mind and
30:41
emasculate him
30:43
and as the man was emasculated
30:46
they would not allow them to pull their
30:47
pants back up they had to keep their
30:49
pants down
30:50
below their behind to show everybody
30:51
else that they were still theirs
30:53
and so showing that that was a mindset
30:56
that was passed on
30:57
so now it was passed on to this prison
30:59
culture and for whatever reason
31:01
as black folks sometimes we like to take
31:05
lemons and make lemonade so whether it’s
31:07
the use of the n-word which
31:09
which you know i would never i still
31:11
don’t condone it as a term of endearment
31:13
but we turn it into a term of a deer
31:15
and so we take something that is uh
31:18
supposed to be painful and turn it into
31:20
something that
31:21
should be a term of endearment and so
31:24
still doesn’t make sense to me
31:26
but at the end of the day that’s what
31:27
quite quite many of our people do
31:30
so they’ve taken something that was
31:32
painful and turn it into something that
31:34
may
31:34
for whatever reason appear cool because
31:36
they don’t understand the history of it
31:38
and so it’s about changing the mindset
31:40
it’s about reversing those thought
31:42
processes by understanding your history
31:43
of where you came from
31:44
to know where you’re going and to
31:46
understand that where you came from
31:48
isn’t where you really are from so you
31:50
need to reverse that and change those
31:52
thought process and know that just so
31:53
much more than that
31:55
and you have that ability to change it
31:57
and see i could i
31:58
could you don’t got me on my soapbox
32:00
brothers now go ahead and roll
32:02
roll go for it you know but at the end
32:05
of the day
32:06
um it’s about changing that mindset and
32:08
giving uh
32:09
a new fresh frame but as young men
32:13
quite often what happens is because this
32:16
mindset is passed on
32:17
uh what i see too often is that our
32:19
young black men are not value in
32:21
education
32:22
they’re not valuing they’re complacent
32:24
they’re okay with
32:25
some of the things that are happening
32:27
and you know those groups who aren’t
32:28
and there’s people who aren’t and we
32:30
have some amazing young black men as
32:31
well
32:32
so i don’t want to drop people into a
32:35
pool
32:36
but there are too many of our young men
32:38
who just aren’t valuing
32:40
our caring but it comes from where is it
32:42
coming from it’s coming from their
32:43
parents
32:45
and not always you know sometimes
32:47
there’s great parents too so i don’t
32:48
want to generalize
32:49
but often the apple does not fall far
32:52
from the tree
32:53
so we have to look at this holistically
32:55
and we have to really take some
32:56
responsibility to change the game
33:00
absolutely couldn’t agree i i know that
33:03
you’re a strong opponent of
33:05
many parents need to step up absolutely
33:10
so yeah so and are the numbers
33:14
based on your research of the numbers of
33:17
young black men
33:18
who are part of the prison uh cost from
33:22
the prison pipeline
33:23
is that increasing or decreasing in
33:25
america based on
33:26
any research that you’ve done last i’ve
33:29
seen
33:30
it it continues to increase as i believe
33:34
almost uh two thirds of
33:37
the prison population is black
33:41
you know um so you know and i i don’t
33:44
um the the exact number slips my mind
33:48
but i know that it’s about two-thirds
33:50
and this the
33:52
numbers are just astronomical
33:55
on the black prison population and it’s
33:58
just
33:58
a and you think about mass incarceration
34:01
so that was another system
34:03
that was that was put to hold us back if
34:05
you look at the
34:06
the 80s with the crack epidemic and you
34:10
look at the crack
34:10
crack epidemic and the problems that it
34:12
caused and you look at the government
34:15
um it’s proven that the government had a
34:17
huge part into dropping crack off into
34:20
the neighborhoods
34:21
to try to fund wars in in in panama
34:24
nicaragua and all those other places
34:26
and down in latin america so they were
34:29
funding wars with this drug money and
34:31
they dropped it into the communities but
34:33
why do you think they dropped into the
34:34
black communities
34:35
and why did they have policies where for
34:38
crack cocaine
34:39
you would get uh life sentences but for
34:42
cocaine
34:43
which is a rich white person’s drug you
34:45
didn’t get those same type of sentences
34:48
you would get slaps on the wrist why do
34:49
you think those policies were put in
34:51
place
34:51
and then as the drugs took hold and
34:54
violence took hold because the drugs
34:56
put people out of their mind and
34:57
violence took hold and violence took
34:59
hold because of the money
35:00
and there was all these other problems
35:01
that were happening uh
35:04
what did the government do they put mass
35:06
incarceration policies in place
35:10
and everybody put it in and said yeah
35:12
now we got to be tough on crime and
35:14
and nothing because now it’s a scare
35:16
tactic because people you see people
35:18
getting killed and hurt
35:19
instead of now when you see a meth head
35:21
they’re not
35:22
being tough on meth heads they’re trying
35:24
to put them in rehab they’re trying to
35:26
help method because why meth is a white
35:28
person’s drug
35:30
and so at the end of the day all these
35:32
systems are stacked up against us
35:35
and they’re piled up and they’re put
35:37
piece after piece
35:38
to make sure that we can’t
35:42
look successful we can’t be successful
35:45
and then
35:46
you know and then when we do you got the
35:48
white person saying well
35:49
if he can do it why can’t you because
35:52
maybe
35:52
his bags happen to be a little bit
35:54
lighter than than my bag
35:57
you know and at the end of the day we
35:59
got to teach these brothers
36:00
how to remove those bags
36:03
where did where does that teaching start
36:06
it always starts at the household man it
36:08
starts at home because
36:10
you know it starts from teaching kids
36:12
from from
36:13
uh teaching kids as early as you can to
36:16
read and write with spoken
36:18
speaking to them speaking to them the
36:20
way that
36:21
uh you would want a child to be spoken
36:23
to appropriately
36:24
from reading to them making sure that
36:26
they are equipped with all the tools and
36:28
knowledge and skills
36:29
and some parents might say i i i don’t
36:32
know i don’t have the school then find
36:33
out
36:34
stop making excuses like
36:37
you gotta want that but you gotta want
36:39
that so we need people to change their
36:40
mindsets and then
36:42
after the house you know every kid has
36:44
to go through school
36:45
so that’s the next place that’s
36:46
responsible but then we got schools
36:48
failing our kids too
36:49
[Laughter]
36:51
it’s like a domino effect yes sir
36:56
continuous really it’s just like
37:01
ah this is it’s frustrating
37:04
uh in your research
37:08
yes sir are there more prisons being
37:10
built did you come across if there are
37:12
more prisons being built in your country
37:15
you know i haven’t come across that
37:16
piece um so i don’t want to uh
37:19
speak out of turn but i know that from
37:22
what i have
37:23
what i have seen is that it is
37:25
consistent i know that biden just
37:27
recently
37:28
uh one of his first acts in in office
37:31
was to
37:32
uh do some things to defund some private
37:34
prisons um
37:36
but i i think it was
37:39
from my personal opinion i think it was
37:41
one of those things that he was doing to
37:44
uh for show um you know and again i have
37:48
no issues
37:49
with biden as of yet but i think it was
37:52
one of those political moves that says
37:54
we just came from a situation that was
37:56
so bad let me do something
37:58
that puts down to get a good front and
38:00
some of the research that i saw
38:02
is what he actually did was a very very
38:05
small
38:06
percentage of prisons i think it was
38:08
like nine percent it affected
38:10
so it wasn’t something that was going to
38:12
affect
38:13
the larger amount of prisons um and and
38:16
so
38:16
when you think about that what was
38:18
really the point of the purpose
38:20
um was it because it’s it’s a good uh
38:23
uh political aspiration and it’s a good
38:26
media
38:27
uh i’ll take to say that you know you
38:29
did or are you doing it for the real
38:31
reason and time will tell i hope that
38:33
there’s
38:33
true intentions behind it right
38:37
good stuff good stuff uh
38:41
how often do fellow educators come
38:44
to your school to see what’s working and
38:47
do they ever follow up with you and
38:48
adapt and tell you how it’s working
38:51
almost never oh
38:55
why why do you think that is
38:59
you know i i don’t know um you know some
39:03
of it is
39:03
because we’re a charter school there’s a
39:05
there is
39:07
um there’s always been a beef between
39:10
public and charter which is
39:11
silly um and so a lot of times i even
39:15
have some colleagues where
39:16
i’m the ceo and i’ve been running this
39:18
organization for 10 years at a very high
39:20
level
39:21
but i have some colleagues who are
39:22
superintendents who i believe
39:24
look at me as if i’m not doing the job
39:26
that they’re doing
39:27
because i’m doing it on a smaller scale
39:31
you know saving lives and making sure
39:34
that kids are educated
39:35
i don’t think there is a small scale for
39:37
that and
39:39
i think at times they are caught up in
39:43
the fact that it is a public
39:44
versus charter or we’re not going to go
39:47
and
39:47
have this conversation with with charter
39:49
but i wish that people did i wish
39:51
my doors are open we have an open door
39:53
policy even now during this virtual
39:55
pandemic
39:56
if our schools wanted to come in and see
39:59
what we were doing
40:00
and i wanted help with support you know
40:04
on the side i do consult and work with
40:06
schools
40:08
but i will tell you honestly the way
40:10
that
40:11
i’ve been able to build some of these
40:13
successes has been from traveling and
40:15
seeing others
40:16
has been seeing what people work and
40:18
what they don’t work on i remember i
40:20
went to texas one time
40:21
i’ve been to chicago texas new york new
40:24
york tennessee i’ve been all over trying
40:26
to see schools that work
40:27
and build build systems that work based
40:30
off of
40:31
like big borrowing stealing because i
40:33
want to be humble and there’s people
40:34
doing it right i want to learn from them
40:36
i went to a school in texas as the obama
40:38
academy and um
40:40
there were two leaders there over the
40:42
time that i was visiting one
40:44
i was naked douglas and the other one
40:46
was michael blind
40:47
and they had a they had a phenomenal
40:49
program for young men there
40:51
and they were doing things that were
40:52
innovative creative and
40:54
um and i said you know what i’m going to
40:57
steal everything that i can from you
41:01
and but we became friends and not only
41:04
friends but they opened their doors to
41:06
me
41:06
but i had to reach out and ask and i
41:08
reached out and i asked
41:10
and you know i still talk to those
41:11
brothers to this day
41:13
because what they had was something
41:16
valuable
41:17
so if i wanted to make sure that i did
41:20
it right for our kids i had to look at
41:22
some of those best practices
41:25
wow wow that’s amazing
41:30
it’s just it’s such a dichotomy what the
41:32
success that you’re having
41:34
at your institution compared to the
41:36
majority of institutions out there it’s
41:38
it’s really concerning but the and the
41:42
two-thirds aspect
41:43
you’re working with two-thirds the
41:44
amount of budget but you’re getting much
41:46
better results that
41:50
that uh that blows my mind a little bit
41:53
to be honest with you
41:54
that’s how you allocate and spend your
41:56
money and so that’s some of the issues
41:58
that i believe that
42:00
um they have in public schools um
42:03
which i’m not inside public school i
42:04
came i was i went through public school
42:07
system i worked in public school system
42:09
i respect what public school educators
42:11
do um we’re a public school we just
42:14
are a non-traditional public school we
42:17
have very high accountability
42:19
as well but what it comes down to
42:23
is often that their budgets aren’t being
42:26
allocated in the right places
42:28
the money is not being spent in the
42:29
right categories and it’s getting spent
42:31
on things that are appropriate for
42:32
adults
42:33
instead of building systems that work
42:34
for kids and that’s why a lot of schools
42:36
are having these budgetary issues
42:38
because of the way that they’re
42:39
allocating funds
42:40
and they’re trying to make sure that
42:42
adults are good
42:44
which quite honestly you have to have
42:47
happy adults that are student focused
42:50
but spend the money the right way and so
42:52
that’s one benefit of
42:53
having an autonomous district is that
42:56
we’re able to allocate
42:57
funds the way that we deem necessary to
42:59
make sure that we’re educating our kids
43:02
so and i sure as back
43:05
many years ago when i had hair i spent
43:08
some time in education
43:10
and i was very blessed because the
43:13
school that i was a
43:14
and for people they wanted chuckle i was
43:16
actually an educational assistant
43:18
in a k-6 school so their story is there
43:21
but that’s another time
43:22
but one of the things that was amazing
43:25
it made me think of education as a
43:26
triangle
43:27
you have your educators you have
43:32
the community and you have the students
43:36
and the principal of this school was
43:38
incredible one thing he
43:40
he never yelled at people never
43:44
never yelled and also the staff
43:47
and him were like unison
43:50
they were just a machine a machine
43:54
and you know he was able and i and i
43:57
think
43:58
the school prison pipeline there’s
44:01
aspects from the home
44:02
there’s aspects of the education system
44:05
let’s talk about the home piece
44:09
what what is needed in black
44:12
a number of black families homes to in
44:15
your opinion
44:16
to stop the pipeline to to turn off that
44:20
valve
44:22
you know and i think when you you tucked
44:26
your kid in
44:27
in bed at night you you never tucked
44:29
your kid in and say
44:30
oh you’re going to wake up and be a
44:32
criminal tomorrow right that’s not what
44:34
happens
44:35
get it in bed and you tell them you love
44:37
them and
44:38
you say your prayers and then the next
44:40
day when they’re going off to school
44:42
no matter what your circumstances is
44:44
even if you’re impoverished
44:46
even sometimes parents who are on drugs
44:48
you’re telling your kid
44:49
have a good day uh behave in school
44:52
and you’re you’re giving them those
44:56
advices
44:57
those advice but at the same time it’s
44:59
our obligation not to just give the
45:01
advice but also
45:03
uh modeled away so also put
45:06
put um not to just walk it
45:09
but you gotta talk it and walk it so not
45:11
to just talk it but to
45:13
walk it as well and to put those things
45:16
in place
45:16
but if you want your child to value it
45:18
you have to value it
45:19
and so it’s uh kind of aligning some of
45:22
those values the same way in leadership
45:24
so
45:25
in leadership you know i often look at
45:27
the five tenants
45:28
by cousins and posner and you think
45:30
about it in terms of you model the way
45:32
you inspire share a vision you challenge
45:35
the process
45:36
you enable others to act and then you
45:38
encourage the heart
45:39
but it’s the same type of thing in your
45:41
household it’s the same type of thing in
45:43
your household if you’re the leader of
45:45
your household
45:46
you’ve got to follow that same process
45:47
if you want your kids to follow it
45:49
now at the end of the day kids will get
45:51
to a point where they have their own
45:53
choice
45:53
and some of them may go astray some of
45:55
them may do things differently and we
45:57
have
45:57
amazing parents that their kids still
45:59
end up making bad choices
46:01
that’s human nature but if they’re the
46:04
right foundations
46:05
are are built we’re going to have more
46:07
kids making right choices than we do
46:09
wrong
46:10
that’s fabulous i love what you said
46:12
there making the right choices
46:14
uh with the parents i think you’ve
46:18
talked about some things parents can do
46:21
let’s all take about the whole area of
46:22
the screen time thing
46:24
and uh for another platform that i do i
46:26
host conversations
46:28
for they had a and gentleman come on
46:31
talk about like you know what
46:32
you need to know what your children are
46:34
looking at
46:35
even more so now because for many
46:38
children
46:39
the screen time is just amplified now
46:43
right talk to that point about parents
46:47
you should be investing even more on
46:48
what their children have on their screen
46:51
right and and you know i believe that
46:54
parents still need to be parents
46:56
so for whatever reason this generation
47:00
and with some of our younger parents
47:01
often feel that they need to be their
47:03
child’s friend
47:05
and there needs to be a a relationship
47:09
there
47:09
you need to have some type of
47:11
understanding and i won’t say friendship
47:13
but parenting has to come first and so
47:17
with that friendship often comes with
47:21
uh that child feeling like they’re on
47:23
this equal playing field
47:25
and at the end of the day you are the
47:27
parent
47:28
and so part of being the parent is
47:31
is sometimes making decisions that are
47:34
unfavorable
47:35
and part of that is understanding that
47:38
unnecessary screen time is unhealthy so
47:41
at some point in time you need to have
47:43
your child unplug
47:44
at some point in time you probably need
47:46
to monitor that
47:47
if little junior is uh
47:51
you know if he is playing playstation
47:54
until
47:54
four in the morning and then he goes to
47:57
sleep
47:58
at 4 30 and then has to get up at eight
48:01
that he’s going to fall asleep in class
48:03
the next morning
48:05
and as a parent if they’re not doing
48:07
what they’re supposed to do
48:09
then you have to make sure and ensure
48:11
that
48:12
pull the plug take the playstation take
48:15
the phone
48:16
um make sure that the if the child earns
48:20
that back
48:21
and you know what it’s going to be an
48:23
unfavorable decision it might be a
48:25
little bit of a fight but it’s a fight
48:26
worth
48:27
fighting because at the end of the day
48:29
you’re going to have a healthier child
48:30
make them get up and do something make
48:32
them do something outside of the screen
48:34
after school hours if they’re virtual
48:37
make them you know what happened to
48:38
playing outside what happened to
48:40
doing whatever and this that
48:43
involved in sports you know
48:45
extracurriculars and yeah i know it’s a
48:47
pandemic but
48:48
but even right now most places have
48:50
allowed some type of activities
48:52
to be occurring back in the in their
48:55
states
48:58
also too you mentioned uh in the article
49:01
about special education
49:04
is it your thought that there
49:08
are more black students that need to
49:12
not be in special education there’s
49:14
maybe some that are not
49:16
needing to be there well
49:19
it was used as another separation tool
49:23
so if you look back into uh like
49:26
i believe the 60s on
49:29
and i think it became big in the in the
49:31
80s
49:32
to where when schools became integrated
49:36
a way to separate the kids again in the
49:39
schools if you look at the research
49:40
was to create special education and so
49:44
we’re going to get all the black kids
49:46
and put them in a room together
49:48
uh because and call them special and
49:51
then
49:51
they need they need this extra help and
49:53
they need extra support
49:55
now what i do believe is special
49:57
education used correctly
49:59
is valuable so special education when a
50:02
child really needs it
50:03
is is a great tool
50:06
it’s when a student is categorized
50:09
unfairly or just
50:10
pushed to special education because you
50:13
don’t know what else to do
50:14
that’s the that’s a problem and so it’s
50:17
even became
50:19
where you look at the research where
50:22
students were suspended
50:23
students who are expelled are quite
50:26
often
50:27
black and black males at higher rates
50:30
and also special education students and
50:32
then
50:33
even people in special ed have made
50:35
arguments that um
50:36
it was because of sped but it’s bigger
50:39
than sped because
50:40
if you look at wealthy districts with
50:43
black students who are not sped
50:44
they still have higher rates of uh they
50:47
try to make it a poverty and a sped
50:48
issue
50:49
and still have higher rates of
50:50
suspension so
50:53
those injustices are happening
50:55
everywhere
50:57
and it is definitely occurring but
50:58
special education was definitely
51:00
formed uh one out of necessity and need
51:04
for students who need help
51:05
but it was used as a tool to segregate
51:08
blacks again
51:11
in your opinion how serious
51:14
is the education system concerned about
51:19
the school-to-prison pipeline
51:23
not enough because if they were that
51:26
concerned if we know
51:27
that if kid if if you’re a black man
51:31
and you fail and don’t graduate high
51:33
school
51:34
that the likelihood of you getting a job
51:36
or career is going to be slim to none
51:39
and so if we’re still if worse if we’re
51:43
still not graduating 40 41
51:47
of of black men that damn they’re half
51:50
half the country
51:52
that’s half that’s that means that if we
51:56
had to
51:56
cut choose between you or i right now
51:59
one of us
52:00
would not graduate
52:03
that means you either you or i would
52:06
fail
52:06
and our lives would probably be
52:08
different based on the statistics so
52:10
if there’s something if the country’s
52:13
really worried about it
52:15
i think more time effort but people you
52:17
think about it people put their money
52:19
uh you know where people spend their
52:21
money is often what they value
52:23
right and you look at you know what you
52:27
you know if somebody spends money on
52:28
something that means they probably think
52:30
it’s probably
52:31
important yeah and and education gets
52:34
caught all the time
52:37
well you’re reading my alleged mind here
52:40
i was gonna ask us
52:41
how is this gonna turn around if
52:43
educational budgets keep on getting cut
52:45
cut cut cut like if it wasn’t for the
52:47
pandemic
52:48
could you imagine how much the budgets
52:51
would be cut
52:52
oh absolutely and and that’s the thing
52:55
education was cut
52:56
and and put in certain places during the
52:58
trump administration that weren’t
52:59
necessarily helpful
53:00
they they tried to put it into private
53:02
schools you know into private
53:04
uh institutions versus uh
53:07
uh and they tried to bill it as that
53:09
they were for school choice
53:11
but it didn’t have anything to do with
53:13
school choice it was for private school
53:14
institutions
53:16
it didn’t have to do with public charter
53:18
schools it didn’t have to do with
53:19
public schools in general or equitable
53:22
funding
53:24
if something doesn’t happen we’re in a
53:27
load of trouble but again it comes down
53:29
to what
53:30
what do we value so
53:33
but aren’t we in trouble already oh
53:35
absolutely
53:36
we’re in we’re in terrible trouble it’s
53:39
just
53:40
now people have to do the work to get
53:43
out of trouble
53:44
you know people have to do the work um
53:47
you know and
53:48
it’s about building building systems
53:51
that work it’s about
53:53
educating young black men and young
53:55
black minds
53:56
and making sure that they’re not
53:59
failures
54:00
it’s about taking personal
54:01
accountability for that
54:04
do you feel on the
54:08
educational side it’s been a long time
54:10
since i’ve been exposed to it obviously
54:14
how are educators measured
54:19
to see if they are meeting standards
54:22
etc because let’s look at it when a
54:25
young black man
54:26
is in school public school or charter
54:28
school
54:30
most of their waking hours is in that
54:32
environment
54:35
and art and when you say systems one of
54:38
the things that’s coming up in my mind
54:40
maybe i’m crazier is there a system in
54:42
place to evaluate
54:44
teachers of these young people
54:47
so that they are giving their best and
54:50
then at the end of the day
54:51
that variable of the unknown we don’t
54:53
have to worry about then we can
54:55
concentrate on
54:56
the student and the home
55:00
so that’s a good question um and what’s
55:03
interesting about that
55:04
is i i have some pretty uh strong
55:06
thoughts on that
55:08
because quite often what’s happening
55:10
with the traditional public schools
55:12
are that there are teachers unions and
55:15
i can give you new york state new york
55:18
state
55:19
does a phenomenal job at protecting
55:21
teachers
55:23
when i say that they protect all
55:25
teachers
55:26
good bad and ugly and so
55:30
do i think that there’s value with
55:33
certain unions and there’s value with
55:35
uh protecting to make sure that
55:37
employees have fair labor
55:39
rights and fair labor laws yes but
55:41
protecting
55:43
someone like you don’t protect if there
55:46
was someone who i it was a heart surgeon
55:49
and they had several patients that died
55:52
because of malpractice
55:55
would you continue to allow them to
55:57
practice
55:58
heart surgery probably not
56:01
but yet you will continue to allow
56:05
a bad teacher to practice surgery on our
56:09
child’s
56:10
brains and so
56:13
that is very problematic because this
56:16
teacher union protects them there was
56:18
huge issues about teacher uh teachers
56:21
being
56:22
monitored through assessments and scores
56:24
and some other things like that
56:25
and so there was huge fights about that
56:27
here especially new york state
56:29
to where i know that that really wasn’t
56:31
going to fly it didn’t fly because of
56:33
the political powers and because the
56:34
money behind the unions
56:36
comparatively what i can say with and
56:39
not all but i can speak for
56:41
my specific charter school and what i
56:43
can speak for
56:44
like the sunni authorized at state
56:46
university in new york authorized
56:48
charter schools is that there’s very
56:50
very high accountability measures
56:52
so so for example most public schools
56:55
can fail for 10 years before there’s
56:59
like the
56:59
the the review process between they try
57:02
to
57:03
help them reform and possibly shut down
57:06
and a lot of times they just end up with
57:07
a new name
57:08
and the same old bag of tricks you know
57:11
and i know that there’s some people in
57:12
the state that are working to fix that
57:14
but
57:14
um with the charter school
57:17
um what i can honestly say is with the
57:19
high accountability for example
57:21
um 65 is
57:24
is passing for regents exams in uh
57:28
with new york state so if you get a 65
57:30
or better but with the charter school
57:32
our accountability
57:33
says i have to have 65
57:36
of my kids get a 75 or better in
57:40
in uh in the english exam and 80 but
57:43
better in math
57:44
and if i don’t if i don’t reach these
57:46
milestones dr vive
57:48
what happens is and if i don’t maintain
57:50
certain graduation rates
57:51
they shut me down so i don’t have a
57:55
choice
57:56
but to find a way to make it work
57:58
because
57:59
i just went through a renewal actually
58:01
tomorrow’s the the
58:02
full renewal vote is tomorrow which they
58:05
already told us they’re voting yes for
58:06
five years
58:07
unconditional um but what
58:11
with that renewal process if i didn’t
58:14
make sure that our school performed we
58:17
would be shut down
58:18
and we wouldn’t be anymore and you know
58:21
there’s this plus isn’t minus with that
58:23
because we do a lot of good in the
58:24
community
58:25
and we do a lot to use things for kids
58:27
but if we’re not performing
58:30
we’re held accountable i get concerned
58:34
and you know the charter schools versus
58:36
publicly that’s a whole other
58:37
conversation itself right right right
58:40
but it almost seems that
58:43
public education is business it’s a big
58:47
business
58:48
and at the end at the end of the day
58:54
i don’t know if i i don’t know if i can
58:56
test that but some part of me says
58:58
is just churning them out trying to play
59:01
stock market with kids lives so stop
59:04
playing the stock market with our kids
59:05
and and at the end of the day again i
59:08
promise i’m not anti-public
59:11
i’m just trying there needs to be higher
59:12
accountability there needs to
59:15
be where if teachers aren’t performing
59:18
and they’re not
59:19
cut the mustard because you and i’ve
59:22
worked in public schools where
59:23
i’m not going to say anybody’s name but
59:25
everyone had a handful of teachers
59:27
on their roster as i was an
59:28
administrator in the public school that
59:30
they were teaching for 25
59:32
30 years and they didn’t write a plan
59:34
they
59:35
they just came into the classroom and
59:38
they went off the top of their head
59:40
they you know they put something on the
59:42
board
59:43
they gave the kid a couple worksheets
59:45
and and
59:46
boom by the boom by the bing the period
59:48
was over
59:49
and that was their teaching and learning
59:52
because they could do it
59:54
and i’m going to tell you that that
59:55
would never be okay in my school
59:57
we’ll see and the thing that concerns me
59:59
again too is even if money was infused
60:01
into the process
60:02
there’s no guarantee that it’d be more
60:05
efficient
60:07
right and that’s right that’s that’s
60:09
what the block is in my opinion what i’m
60:11
looking at here
60:12
in regards to education side there’s a
60:14
whole piece in a number of homes and
60:16
that’s a whole other conversation i
60:18
think
60:18
what i would love to do is have you come
60:20
back and
60:22
i’d love to get parents who have
60:25
children in
60:26
the charter versus parents who have
60:28
children in the public
60:30
and i’d love to have a round table
60:33
i would it’s just come up in my mind i
60:34
would i would love to have that sort of
60:36
round table and really flush it out
60:39
because i’m sure there are challenges
60:42
with parents who are dealing with the
60:43
public system
60:44
right that parents who are involved with
60:46
your system on the child
60:48
they are not facing but then
60:51
again i get back to point if we put more
60:54
money into the system
60:56
is it going to be better because you’re
60:57
having success with two-thirds the
60:59
amount of money that many of the public
61:01
will get so where’s the gap and at the
61:03
end of the day
61:06
why are educators there are they there
61:08
just to
61:10
get a pension are they there to
61:12
positively affect
61:13
our future
61:16
all right you got to know your why you
61:18
got to know your why
61:20
and your why has to stay poignant on
61:22
your heart and on your mind even
61:24
in days of of of struggle
61:27
and so as leadership it’s our
61:30
responsibility to make sure that we’re
61:33
doing what’s necessary
61:34
and that we’re taking on the fights and
61:37
that we’re not
61:38
allowing the political pressures to
61:41
dictate what’s best for kids
61:43
and that we’re making sure that we put
61:45
in place what needs to be in place
61:47
so kids can be successful
61:50
well we’ll start winding it down here
61:52
and i’m going to read your last
61:53
paragraph
61:54
or the second last paragraph or the last
61:56
real part paragraph in your
61:58
your article you say quote that system
62:01
that foundation of seeing black students
62:03
as delinquent
62:04
is a malignant and variable part of the
62:07
sprinter b
62:08
scenario across the united states there
62:11
are sets we
62:12
can all take to address correct and
62:15
alleviate this but before we discuss
62:17
what those are we really all need to get
62:20
clear about
62:20
what the starting line looks like so in
62:23
your opinion
62:25
what should the starting line look like
62:27
when we talk about the school
62:29
to prison pipeline
62:32
well we have to start with we have to
62:34
start with equitable
62:36
equity you know and equity doesn’t
62:38
always mean equal
62:39
um and if
62:43
again equity is more about fair equity
62:46
means that we need to have
62:48
um we need to have people who look like
62:52
us
62:53
in the schools we need to have education
62:55
uh being a priority we need to have
62:58
budgets that where money is spent in the
63:00
right way
63:01
not just more money but money spent in
63:03
the right way we need to have schools
63:05
that are building and putting the right
63:07
systems in place
63:09
we need to have schools where our kids
63:11
are
63:12
especially our black and brown kids and
63:14
our black and brown young men
63:16
are a priority and where we’re able to
63:20
to drop the uh
63:23
the racist institutions but it doesn’t
63:26
happen
63:27
unless people who don’t look like us
63:29
start to address their biases
63:32
and start to address their biases and
63:34
start to address
63:36
the cultural deficiencies and start to
63:38
admit
63:39
that there’s issues and problems and
63:41
something needs to be done about it
63:43
and as that begins to happen because the
63:46
there’s still
63:47
uh this is still ran by a white majority
63:50
and so at the end of the day until those
63:53
until those others
63:55
decide to come to terms that
63:59
this institutionalized this racism thing
64:02
is real
64:03
and that there is a school-to-prison
64:05
pipeline and there is biases
64:07
and that there has been trap set all
64:09
along the way
64:11
it’s not going to go anywhere but that’s
64:12
the starting line is by people dropping
64:14
their biases
64:16
dr miller it’s again a pleasure
64:20
to have you share with us um i know you
64:23
have your book coming out when
64:24
when is the book scheduled tentatively
64:27
so
64:28
i’m not sure yet because it’s in the
64:30
process of being edited
64:32
and we’re selling it to trying to get it
64:33
to some literary agents
64:35
to go to some larger publication
64:37
companies um i think i got a good one
64:39
on my hands i think uh
64:42
i’m looking for my oprah moment
64:45
of vulnerable voices uh-oh what’s that
64:49
dude that’s not on my end number three
64:52
someone believed
64:54
it oh that’s well that that’s my context
64:59
someone just played my podcast so i
65:02
also season three of uh vulnerable
65:04
voices is coming up so whoever just
65:06
played that thank you
65:08
uh that’ll be coming up in may i think
65:10
may 5th
65:11
we’ll have vulnerable voices and uh
65:13
we’ll actually be
65:14
through uh uh youtube facebook
65:18
uh we’ll be streaming live right through
65:20
there we’ll be using the stream
65:21
stream yard as the platform as well and
65:23
um
65:24
but uh thanks for whoever did gave me
65:26
that little plug here
65:28
uh in the background so your person’s on
65:30
it dr vi
65:31
there you go and i just hope my the
65:34
producer can just put up
65:35
all the different places where you can
65:37
be reached
65:38
i know there is the urban education
65:41
that’s actual
65:42
link there’s the facebook page or the
65:44
urban education that’s
65:46
20 article there’s the website
65:48
urbaneducation.com i also think you put
65:50
the
65:51
an instagram at doc miller
65:55
d-o-c-m-i-l-l-e-r
65:57
also another website paul miller edd.com
66:01
so there are all the places
66:03
where he’s hold up yeah there you go
66:06
he’s googlicious he’s googlicious as
66:09
they like to say dr miller again
66:11
a pleasure thank you so much dr vibe
66:13
here host and producer of the
66:15
award-winning doctor
66:16
vibe show the home of epic conversations
66:18
on the host of epic conversations
66:20
2020 podcast news award winner 2018
66:24
innovation award winner given out by the
66:25
canadian ethnic media association
66:28
also once a month i host online
66:30
conversation
66:31
the only one in the world on a monthly
66:32
basis that is
66:34
for fathers and dads that’s sponsored by
66:36
dove men care and dad central
66:38
canada’s national fatherhood
66:39
organization
66:41
excuse me okay there we go
66:46
like to thank christy white
66:49
for listening and watching jenna miller
66:52
thank you so much
66:53
and all the other people who watch us
66:54
live on the replay it’s appreciated not
66:57
taking forget it also thank you for
66:58
listening on the replay
67:00
audio only which will be available as
67:02
part of this epic conversation
67:04
also thanks to bia media just like to
67:06
close out as usual with what i like to
67:08
say
67:08
live your life as a dream if you can
67:10
dream it you can make it sometimes you
67:12
have to get smaller to get stronger
67:14
block assumptions that aim bigger and
67:17
better in higher and wider
67:19
love faith and respect remember to give
67:21
yourselves grace
67:22
god bless peace be well keep the faith
67:25
and
67:26
education no matter what the race is
67:28
important
67:29
if you’re a parent make sure you are
67:31
invested in
67:33
your child or children’s future because
67:36
investing in their future
67:37
will invest as an investment in all of
67:39
our futures
67:40
good night everybody walk good
67:55
[Music]
69:18
you
***
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