Mika Doyle gives digital frogs advice on how to become princes.
I don’t put much stock in psychic readings, so when a palm reader told 17-year-old me that 1) I would be single for 5 years before I met Mr. Right and 2) I’d kiss a LOT of frogs along the way, I dismissed his reading as the blathering of an old man looking to make a few extra bucks.
Turns out he wasn’t too far off the mark.
When I was in my mid-twenties, I spent four years as a single gal. One year shy of his prediction, but I definitely met the plethora of frogs he told me I would. What he didn’t tell me is that I would meet a lot of those frogs on online dating sites. (Okay, online dating was a bit unheard of at the time, but that’s no excuse for a psychic, right?)
I have married, engaged, and/or otherwise spoken-for friends who swear by online dating. After all, they are in successful relationships because of online dating sites. My experience with online dating? Not so fairy tale-like.
After a couple of years on various free and paid online dating sites, I was beyond frustrated with the men I encountered there. It was like trying to push matching ends of a magnet together – the men I met shared my goal of finding some form of companionship, but all they ended up doing was repelling me by their less-than-flattering behavior.
I’ve had enough. Dating is already an exercise in frustration; why make it any harder? It’s time to evaluate our behavior as daters to determine if we’re causing our own dating failures. Now, I’m no dating expert, but I know what turned me off. I’d like to offer my perspective – a woman who has tried both free and paid online dating sites – in an effort to help men who are trying to find love through online dating. I’d be remiss to claim these mistakes are only made by men, but for simplicity’s sake I’m going to speak mainly to the male readers since my perspective is that of a heterosexual woman who was looking for a relationship with a heterosexual man.
These are the top three online dating mistakes I saw men making and my suggestions for how to stop making them:
Mistake #1: Being the creepy guy who seems to only want sex
Unless the person’s profile indicates sex is one of their top topics of interest, wait until you get to know each other before bringing sex into the conversation. I once received a message on OkCupid from a man more than 25 years my senior who told me he’d like to teach me a thing or two in the bedroom. He was responding to a quiz question I had answered that had to do with sex; there was no open invitation on my part for men to come teach me anything – in the bedroom or no.
A female friend of mine told me she received many messages from people wanting to have sex with her; people only interested in sexting; and people only interested in phone sex.
Another female friend received a message from a man who said, “I see you want someone who is sexually knowledgeable but not sexually obsessed. What type of kink does that mean you’re looking for?” My friend wasn’t looking for “kink,” at least not the kind this guy was selling. She was simply trying to express what she was looking for when it comes to sex with her partner
Yet another message received by a female friend: “I’m here to fuck. Wanna hook up?”
Obviously some of these guys weren’t interested in a long-term relationship, but if you’re looking for more than sex, this is not the route to take.
The Fix: Use a dating site designed specifically for people who are looking for the same type of relationship you are. There are lots out there – and not just sites for people looking for sex. There are sites for men looking for sugar babies; sites for people looking for someone to have an affair with; and even sites for people who are physically incapable of having sex. Pick the one that’s right for your situation and respect the parameters of that site.
If you’re looking for more than sex but your sexual preferences play a key role in your selection process, there are a couple things you can do. Firstly, scour the profiles of the women you’re interested in to look for clues that they might have similar sexual preferences as yours. If you don’t see anything that indicates a potential for strong sexual chemistry, don’t rush into the sex talk. You wouldn’t go up to a woman in a bar and ask how often she likes to have sex, right? At least, I hope you don’t. Chances are you ask her if you can buy her a drink first. Think about those initial conversations as that first drink – get to know each other a little before diving into more personal conversations. You might get a relationship – and the kind of sex you were looking for.
Mistake #2: Ignoring deal-breakers
The beauty about online dating is that you can find out if someone exhibits one of your deal-breakers just by reading their profiles. Some of mine include smoking, excessive drinking, and having kids. Those are pretty standard questions in an online dating profile, so the men who answered them saved both of us a lot of time. People with more experience with online dating sites will sometimes take this a step further by spelling out those deal-breakers right in their profiles. Where’s the mistake? Many men my female friends and I encountered ignored obvious deal-breakers we spelled out in our profiles because they liked what they saw in our pictures.
One female friend told me she disliked any message that comments only on physical appearance. She said, “I usually responded with a ‘thank you for the compliment, and I hope that you find what you are looking for on this site.’”
The Fix: First and foremost, a pretty face is not a guarantee that you’ll have a successful relationship with someone. Read their profile before messaging them. Carefully.
Not everyone spells out their deal-breakers right in their profiles, but some online dating sites include “dislikes” or “turn-offs” sections for people to fill out. Pay attention to those sorts of things. If some of their turn-offs characterize you, think about whether those are things a couple can work through (e.g. if you’re a smoker, you could quit smoking if you have your heart set on a woman who can’t stand smoking) or if they’re an absolute deal-breaker (e.g. you have a child but the woman doesn’t want kids or you’re Catholic but she’s Jewish and neither wants to convert). Deal-breakers need to be addressed before any relationship turns serious, and there’s never a better time than now to start identifying them.
Caveat: If deal-breakers are not immediately apparent from a person’s profile, don’t drill them to find out if any deal-breakers are present. They’ll start coming up naturally in conversation, and as the relationship progresses you can start talking more about these kinds of personal topics.
Mistake #3: Getting Pissed at Women for Rejecting You … Then Getting More Pissed When They Stop Responding Altogether
This became the most infuriating lose-lose situation for me. Whenever I initiated contact with someone, it was a big deal for me. It meant I had a serious interest in that person, and waiting for a response was torturous. What was worse? Not even getting a response. That led me to believe that the men who messaged me would appreciate a response from me, even if that response was a respectful decline. Boy, was I wrong. I received all kinds of nasty messages in return, most with a “fine, be that way!” kind of tone. After awhile I started to feel anxious every time I saw a reply to a recent “decline response” I’d sent, so I decided the best strategy was to stop replying if I wasn’t interested.
That’s when the name-calling started – and my complete exit from online dating.
When I didn’t respond to messages, I’d often receive follow-up messages that were tirades about what a bitch I was and how sorry I should be for missing out on what the guy had to offer. Many of my female friends experienced the same kind of treatment.
Here’s a message a female friend received from a man after not responding to three messages he sent her: “So you’re clearly one of those clueless cunts that gives women a bad name. Good luck – you’re gonna need it. Don’t bother responding NOW.”
What I learned is that if women respond to let men know they’re not interested, men get nasty. But if women don’t respond at all, men get even nastier. What are we supposed to do?
The Fix: Online or in real life, you’re going to experience rejection. You can’t control that. What you can control is how you react to it. Online dating can certainly take a toll on your self-esteem since you will probably experience more rejection there than in real life simply due to the sheer number of candidates you are able to contact. The important thing to remember is to not let the rejection get to you. And sometimes it’s not even truly rejection – some people use online dating sites because they are too busy to go out and date the old-fashioned way (i.e. going on date after date after date until they find the right person), so responding to all of the messages they receive just might not be possible.
We’ve all heard the saying about putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. Remember that saying as you navigate the online dating world. You have no idea what other people’s worlds are like, and you certainly don’t know precisely what they’re looking for, no matter how carefully crafted their profiles are. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and don’t take their rejection personally.
My top advice? I hate to minimize the words of Gandhi by applying them to a topic like online dating, but … I’m going to anyway. My top advice is to “be the change you want to see in the world.” Don’t be like the people I’ve described in this piece. You’re better than that.
Read Mika Doyle’s follow-up post
10 Tips for Using Online Dating Sites to Find Long Term Love
—Photo bixentro/Flickr
Mistake #1: Being the creepy guy who seems to only want sex
This is a very common mistake I see a lot happening these days. I mean, I come form a small town, and now i’m living in a big capital. So i’m using Tinder and such, and all those girls complain how creepy guys are on those platforms. Also when I invite female friends over from my home country, and they install tinder. It is really over the top. So this is a very good tip!
As a woman who has used online dating, I would like to point out that making that experience better for women will help men to meet more women online. Some women end up giving up on online dating because they have to weed through so many messages from people who haven’t read their profile and don’t match them or who are writing angry messages. The more women online the better for guys, right? Until there are equal numbers of men and women, men will have to accept that they have a lot of competition. At the same time, so much… Read more »
Well good for you Mika , your moderately successful at having your voice heard and having people listen to what you have to say. I think this is something we would all like to experience. Much like seeking sex advise from someone, I belive most if not all these issues could be overcome if people were in possession of a lot more common sense,imagination and critical thinking. Reading these top 3 do, do nots and some of the following comments prompted me to ask some men if they would ever act or speak this way to a complete stranger. The… Read more »
Most people would not completely ignore someone who came up to them in a social arena, say a bar, and said something polite and friendly; yet many people feel fine about totally ignoring messages they are not interested in. So it isn’t just the men who don’t act on line the way they would IRL. And many men on dating sites would LOVE to get a series of messages saying ‘hey, I am horny – here is my number and a photo of me naked. If you like what you see, call me!’ Are you *sure* your ‘do unto others’… Read more »
Sounds pretty commonsensical to me. The fact that people need to know these things means that common sense may not be all that common.
I would add another obvious tip that you would expect everyone to follow but not everyone does:
Don’t use someone else’s picture for your picture, and don’t use a photo that’s 15 years old. You think I won’t notice when I meet you in person??
Men,
On a date, or whenever you are going to be alone with a woman, consider carrying with you and using a discreet digital voice recorder. If later accused by a woman of sexually raping/assaulting or otherwise threatening her the proof on the recorder might be the one thing that keeps you out of prison and from getting your life ruined. Technology (whether cameras in a park or a digital recorder) has been the savior of MANY men proving they are innocent after some woman made false allegations against them.
Aharon: not a bad idea, so long as you disclose to her that she is being recorded. If she objects, you’ve effectively saved yourself a major headache (or worse!).
It’s a sad reflection on society when not only do we have women being afraid of rape, but we have men quite afraid of false accusations of rape to feel they need a recorder. What’s sad is that there’s actually quite a bit of merit in having a way to record the event as proof there was no foul play….or proof there was…I can’t see many people going for it though but I can see your point.
Seems like an extreme step, but to each his own. I wonder, though, how long you have to keep it up. Am I supposed to record our conversations when we’re on our 12th date? How many batteries do you go through recording a long weekend together?
For those requesting a follow-up piece offering what to do (instead of what *not* to do), it went up tonight: https://goodmenproject.com/sex-relationships/10-tips-for-using-online-dating-sites-to-find-long-term-love/.
Let this article be the gateway to more articles from both sides about the experiences and frustrations of online dating. Mika’s post is valuable because it gives some insight into a woman’s experience of the format, just as the commenters are giving us insight into a man’s experience. Surely this is the starting place for all of us to create a more successful approach? I’m curious to hear someone talk about how online dating is also becoming a “singles directory” of sorts. It’s not uncommon to find someone on OkCupid that you already know or have met. Not unlike other… Read more »
“Surely this is the starting place for all of us to create a more successful approach?”
@Jess of CityGirlsWorld.com: I really hope so!
Hi Mika, thank you for the article! 🙂
I’m just into the online dating again, so this read is serendipitous.
@Mika Doyle: “people feel personally insulted when rejected, which always confused me.”
I think the explanation is simple: the people who gets easily offended are – usually – people with low self-esteem or weak personalities, hence they are very “fragile”; anything even slightly negative make them crumble.
Whereas a self-assured person would take a polite “Thanks but no thanks ” with an “Oh, ok” attitude.
Thanks for insight into that, Crescendo. I would agree with that. Personally, I assumed very few men would respond to my messages because online dating turns the pool into an ocean, but I have to remember not everyone is going to think like that.
I would consider myself self-assured, and the first dozen, even the first hundred carefully-written messages going unanswered didn’t bother me, but when it started going beyond that, and including (4 of close to 200) women who answered, sometimes only with a “hey! nice to meet you” cursory message, only to drop off the face of the earth when I try to actually make conversation, it got to be hurtful. I’m burned out and done with online dating. Women don’t know how to find guys looking for a real relationship, Men are frustrated at the lack of sex, I think the… Read more »
Oh my oh my… Guys, there is nothing here for you (unless you’re looking for a relationship, in which case the author’s views are useful, but not the key to your success). For guys, the key to your success is to let her show interest in you first. Make the best possible profile you can, write the best possible and highly descriptive profile you can. If it’s not at least 500 words long, it’s not long enough (women want details, details, details). Put in a good photo. That means, no bare chest, doing something outdoorsy, actiony, in a suit and… Read more »
I thoroughly agree! I think my Beloved practically wrote a novel, but after reading his profile I had a pretty good idea of his interests and his personality shone through. Since he wrote so much about himself, including the type of woman he was looking for and what type of relationship he wanted, there were plenty of ideas to start a conversation with. As for his opening.. If I recall correctly he teased me a bit about something in my profile and mentioned that if I was interested in talking about sci fi perhaps I’d drop him a line? I… Read more »
You know what’s interesting about your advice Wet One. All it requires from men is to use different women for different purposes. And personally, I think the goal of The Good Man Project is to break out of preconceived ideas about all matters of way men interact with women and each other. And yet above, you pretty much are encouraging men to use one set of women for one needs, while using another set of women for other needs. You’re advice is all about what a man can “take” from women. Whether it’s sex or social “skills” or other stuff.… Read more »
Erin, it’s interesting you say that since it’s what many men have said to various articles on here about what women are actually giving to men, the 20 things I love about men is full of it. I think what he was advocating for was the chance to get in the door and that is very hard for some. He’s wanting men to get laid somewhere else to lower the desperation (which can happen and does scare off people) so that they can actually get a better chance of a relationship and there isn’t really any need for him to… Read more »
Wow!
Thanks for that. You said it far better than I would have.
No problems, it’s probably something that only men generally understand due to experience. I just wish women could understand more on what it’s like and just HOW MUCH confidence a man can feel after getting laid, even if it just takes the whole act down a notch from the pedestal it’s often placed on. Before I got laid it was like some epic goal, so high on a pedestal and after having sex it was great, fun, exciting but it does seem way over-rated by some. For virgin males it can become this extremely valued achievement in life and it… Read more »
Wet_Suit_One: In response to this: “Guys, there is nothing here for you (unless you’re looking for a relationship, in which case the author’s views are useful, but not the key to your success).” The piece was geared toward men looking for a relationship, not just sex.
As for this, well, I see you didn’t read what I wrote. But that’s cool. Misunderstandings abound as communication is hard.
See what Archy wrote above to assist in your understanding. Also re-read my first line as well.
I thought it was a good list of don’ts, but I do think Mika would do well to write another article with some do’s. Please don’t be so quick to write the article off, since it DOES contain some good advice. I think the hypothetical person she’s speaking to is pretty clueless (thank God I was never THAT bad!) but, hey, everyone has to start somewhere. Again, I thought it was good advice.
I’d say you’re spot-on about the profile. I love it when a guy has a big, long… profile. 😀 Communication skills are important to me, so I’d like to know right away that he has them.
I find a suit and tie to be kind of a turn off actually, but I realize I’m kinda not the norm in that respect, so I’m sure that works for a lot of women.
I’m with you, LF, RE: suit and tie. Also super-short, military-style haircuts. I prefer long hair on men. I am always bewildered at the number of men who put really unflattering photos of themselves on their profiles. PLEASE ask someone if it is a good, flattering likeness before you put it up. Most importantly, however, men need to actually READ what I have written and respond either to what I’ve said about myself or tell me something about themselves that shows that we have something in common. Far too many men just look at the photos and ignore the words… Read more »
Mika – fabulous online dating advice. Both within what the mistake was and what the fix is. I myself have encountered each one of the three problems you described.
Nice article!
Thanks, Erin!
Hey Mika. I enjoyed the article. From your perspective, what is your stance on responses? Is it better to tell them you’re not interested or to no respond at all. I have heard arguments for both.
Thanks, Ryan. Despite having bad experiences from doing both, I still lean toward responding with a “thanks but no thanks” instead of no response at all. As some other commenters have pointed out, online dating is time-consuming, so I think responding to messages is the respectful thing to do. There’s always caveats to this, of course. I always indicated in my profiles that I was looking for long-term relationships, so if people messaged me looking to hookup, I typically blocked them. Also, be prepared for snide responses. No matter how gentle and respectful I was, I received snarky responses to… Read more »
or Mika, you could write at the bottom of your profile something to the effect of, ” i am unable to reply to every email. if you dont receive an initial reply within 24hrs thanks for your email, however im not interested”
thus keeping the nasty reactions to yr rejection emails away from you, while satisfying your need to be polite
🙂
That’s a great suggestion, jameseq! I’d add that maybe it’s best to put a note like that at the top of one’s profile to ensure it’s read.
I have never sent a nasty response to a woman who has told me “Thanks, but no thanks”, BUT, I find that women who have anything in their profiles to the effect of “Don’t be offended if I don’t respond” to be a HUGE turn-off, and I don’t bother to send them a message at all. If you are that busy, I’m not going to bother…..
@AnonymousDog: regarding “Don’t be offended if I don’t respond” being a HUGE turn-off…
I quite agree, it sounds like she’s considering herlsef so high-status that only the “very top” would deserve a response.
OTOH, if a woman get many, many msgs (and it seems many do), it would be unfair to expect her answering to all of them.
I love that this piece is from your perspective Mika, and I agree you can’t be all things (write all things) for all people. To anyone who is feeling that the piece missed the mark from a man’s perspective, please write a piece on online dating and submit it to Lisa!
Thanks, Julie! You’re right — the editors at The Good Men Project would absolutely welcome a response piece to mine, and so would I! I can only write from my own experiences with online dating, so it’d be great to hear from a man on this, too.
My suggestion to all online daters is to use a current photo that looks like you. When your first thought is she doesn’t look like the person I thought I was meeting you’re off to a shaky start.
What is with that refreshing? I wrote several paragraphs, only for it to be wiped out >:( So what I was going to pontificate on is that I think this is a useful article. Even among the women in my circle, similar complaints come up. Whenever an attractive woman posts a profile, she is immediately flooded with messages, and among those are plenty of guys on dating sites who lack ettiquitte, who are bitter/ frustrated, or who are downright creepy. I can empathize with the ladies on that.. There are waaay more guys than girls on dating sites, and it’s… Read more »
Thanks, Dinomax. It sounds like I really need to write a follow-up piece on what works. My challenge with that is that I think what works is even more subjective than what doesn’t work. I’m going to reach out to my social media contacts to see if they’ll share their stories so I can try to pull something as well-rounded together as I can. I did not have very many positive experiences with online dating (as I’m sure you could tell from my piece), so it’s more difficult for me to write about what works when I ended up abandoning… Read more »
“Write on what works” would be a FANTASTIC followup–because that’s what’s always missing from relationship-advice articles for men. Nearly every time they turn into a list of “Don’ts” with nothing on the “Do” side.
All I can say to this is OMG (left the F out). This article is really badly titled. It should be titled “This is what women want you to say and do in online dating”. You might consider them mistakes, but a couple of friends I have known who have tried online dating have done all the things you detail above and received from it exactly what they wanted (needed).
I’m sure they did, John Sctoll. Obviously no one could ever write a piece about dating that applies to absolutely everyone. It’d be a billion pages long and no one would want to read it. The beautiful thing about The Good Men Project is that we are given the opportunity to write from our own unique perspectives, and that’s what I did here. Also, I would like to point out as I did for Tibb that I did indicate these mistakes are not just isolated to men (here’s what I said: “I’d be remiss to claim these mistakes are only… Read more »
@John Gottman Sctoll: “a couple of friends I have known…”
Yeah. And there are people (very few) who fell from the fifth floor and remained unscathed.
That doesn’t mean it’s a good sport or we should follow their example. 😉
A general discourse has to apply to the wider number of people.
I appreciate the people (I date all genders) who will talk about something we mutually enjoy. One spoke about his favorite Isaac Asimov book. Another made some kooky cactus jokes. Fun times! But the worst was one who kept emailing me “hi” and that’d be it. OK, so it wasn’t quite so bad as the guys you speak of, but it gave me some serious facepalms.
The Nerd — Kooky cactus jokes? That’s fantastic! I also appreciated people who found some way to connect with me, whether it be a book or a hobby or what not.
Oh Mika Doyle, I should probably point out that I specifically told people who message me to come armed with a good joke or two. Tibby’s comment about ‘mandible’ reminded me that. And it works – I’ve heard some knee-slappers in my day, even from people I wouldn’t have replied to otherwise.
Oh that’s so clever!
This is not advice for men on how to be successful in on line dating. This is about how men could behave to to help women be successful in on line dating. I don’t think you have thought through the options faced by guys. Sorry.
I agree they’re good things to remember but I also agree with Tibb, it would be nice to see extra said about what guys face in online dating instead of the typical don’t do this list.
What can they do that is right to get interest, being a jackass is of course bad and it’s good to point it out but is that it? Avoid that, say Hi? I’d say there are many guys who are unsure of what to say in a first contact to try get a reply, so what would you recommend?
Hi, Archy – It’s difficult to recommend that people (not just men, as I said in my piece) *should* do because everyone has their own individual preferences. My best advice is to be thoughtful about your initial message, but don’t spend too much time writing out a novel. Again I go back to the bar analogy; you wouldn’t walk up to a woman and immediately start telling her your every like and dislike and why you think you would make a good couple. That can come off too strong and a little desperate. I would recommend placing a toe in… Read more »
Thank-you for the response, there are some great tips there. I learned a while ago you can’t win em all and that we all like different things, not everyone is compatible but it doesn’t mean you’re ugly just that it won’t work out with that particular person. People think of universal attraction way too much and so a rejection becomes an insult to them as if they are ugly, instead of just finding the wrong person.
That’s such a great way to put it, Archy. I always found that people feel personally insulted when rejected, which always confused me. It’s not personal; we just aren’t matches with every single person on the face of the planet, otherwise dating would be exceptionally easy!
This is such a difficult question to get right. What you both said is totally right.
We’ve decided to take a look at lots of replies and wrote a post giving some advice here: http://ourgrahamlondon.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/dating-profile-replies-a-how-to-guide/
Hope it helps everyone!
Hi, Tibb — Actually, the piece applies to all genders and all sexual orientations. I said this to cover that: “I’d be remiss to claim these mistakes are only made by men, but for simplicity’s sake I’m going to speak mainly to the male readers since my perspective is that of a heterosexual woman who was looking for a relationship with a heterosexual man.” Rather than spell out each gender and sexual orientation option for each part, I chose to simplify it by speaking from my perspective. I absolutely DO NOT think men are the only ones who do these… Read more »
Hey Mika, thanks for your response. I may not have made myself clear – I didn’t intend to suggest you were saying that only men made these mistakes. Rather – one of your main points seems to be that men who just want sex should go to a sex dating site. But there are so few women on those sites that the odds are better that someone on a ‘normal’ site would feel like having sex with a stranger than that you’d get the attention of someone who was openly looking for that on a sex site. And you suggest… Read more »
Tibby, do you have any evidence that your approach works better than specifically seeking out only women who say they want sex? If not, why should we believe your anecdote works for everyone? It seems more logical to say “asking only women who say they want sex for sex has a higher success rate than asking literally every woman” than to say “women on sex sites don’t want sex, women not on sex sites do”. Unless you’re implying that women are liars and manipulators.
Well, firstly I am not saying that about women at all: I am suggesting firstly that there are just hardly any girl ads on sex sites compared to the number of guys; and secondly a fair number of the girl ads are gay guys or prostitutes or scam artists or people just putting up profiles for the fun of it. Sex sites are pretty hard ways for men to get sex, and are rarely worth the effort unless the man is looking for something quite niche. And I am not saying that ‘women not on sex sites do want sex’… Read more »
And what did you find when you did that experiment?
Try it yourself PM. My ‘experiment’ wasn’t at all rigorous, it was just trying a few things out and seeing what the results were. Generally I found that female profiles with all sorts of attributes I thought men would find unpleasant would still get lots of replies (I tried without success to produce a profile that wouldn’t get lots of replies: in desperation I produced a profile that featured a woman whose terrible flatulence problem led her to find it hard to relax during sex, but who had a kink where she enjoyed breaking wind while receiving oral sex; and… Read more »
So you’re saying you think you have a better chance of a short-term hookup if you just get on a normal dating site and try to manipulate women who are looking for real relationships into hooking up with you? And then you don’t bother to read their profiles, you just message every woman whose photo is attractive hoping one of them will want to hook up with you?
Well, that explains a lot of things. 😀
No need to make it personal, LF. If there are lots of guys doing this and achieving their ends, to say that they are making ‘mistakes’ is a strange way of describing them (unless you mean ethically, and I have conceded that point). I think Mika’s error is that she thinks that the ‘creeps’ who come across as just looking for sex are actually looking for a relationship and going about it the wrong way. They’re not. They’re guys just looking for sex and looking in the most effective place. Some may try and manipulate women who are looking for… Read more »
You say that guys looking for relationships don’t act like that, but I’ve come across a surprising number who actually do. They honestly think that the way to get into a relationship is to have sex with as many women as possible and hope one of them turns into a relationship. I’m guessing Mika has come across a lot of responses from such guys and that’s why her tips are what they are.
Generalizing alert-I obviously know that some women want hook ups and some men want relationships….but I’m responding to the idea of tips for women and men being different. I think then there is an issue with the very names of the sites. If it is a dating site, the term dating may mean different things to men and women. For women (though not exclusively) it may mean “dating” meeting people, talking to them, getting to know them, deciding if you want to move towards “mating.” For men, (though not exclusively) “dating” may mean “mating…..it may be they want more access… Read more »
Julie Gillis: I learned through experience that “bisexual” apparently means “please contact me for threesomes” (as opposed to meaning, you know, “bisexual”). Since I’m not particularly interested in fulfilling strangers’ requests to make out with their partners, I did add a “do not contact me for threesomes” note to the top of my dating profile. So far it’s worked out well.
Yes. That’s the tactic I’ve used as well.
Pretty sad that is neccessary but I do wonder if I can fault people for daring to try. Maybe they need a sexuality expanded tab. Bi, Tri, hetero, homo, and then 2 some, 3 some, 4 some, hugh hefner party, etc. Or just make a site for couples looking for 3 ways…. Oh the wonderful world of online dating, I have a profile up as just to meet friends because i’d rather get to know people first then just go out on blind dates :S but it sounds like it’s more of a hassle at times by what I hear… Read more »
Thanks for clarifying, Tibb. After reading your follow-up comment, I would definitely have to say that I’ll have to agree to disagree with you. I tend to lean toward Julie’s school of thought that maybe we’re looking at the definitions of the sites differently, but either way, more clarity is in order. If you’re just looking for hookups, be clear about that. Dating sites often include the ability to select what kind of relationship you’re looking for, so if someone indicates they’re only looking for long-term relationships or marriage, don’t contact them if you’re looking for a hookup. I think… Read more »
And maybe I’m unique in this, but when I go to a person’s online dating profile, it’s with the question: “if I got together with this person, what would we probably end up doing together?” That means I’d like to know what people enjoy doing with other people or even alone. Do you spend your time knitting, playing WoW, attending the movies without fail Friday nights, experimenting with BDSM, etc? Whatever it is, let people know, because nothing says “I’d like to meet this person” like reading a profile and thinking “wow, this person spends hir time doing exactly what… Read more »
I think Julie has a point. But the most important difference between men and women on these sites is not what they want, but the ratio of possible partners to competitors that they face. Women’s experience of dating sites is of not being able to cope with the onslaught of low-grade messages. Men’s is of getting no response to 90% of the messages they send – in many cases, they are not even read. I think that any advice for men on how to behave on such sites needs to address this point as possibly the most important and pressing… Read more »
Tibby – I think you do a good job with identifying the disconnect that’s happening in the comments here. I definitely agree that further discussion needs to happen about this subject, especially after reading all of the comments, but I think I’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree about your suggestion that I didn’t offer suggestions for how men can solve this problem. I felt many of my “fixes” would help both men and women get what they want. Just as the male commenters are saying women need to understand where men are coming from, I think men need to… Read more »
Well sadly if there are more men than women on the dating sites, women will be at a much bigger advantage and the guys are probably best to try the scattergun approach and play the numbers game (but do try and be thoughtful in the messages). I’d like to see a study on how many replies men and women get, and how many unsolicited contacts they get, it wouldn’t surprise me if most men were ignored and most women were inundated with messages. Sounds like a supply and demand problem:P I really really hope women are also sending messages themselves… Read more »
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/online-dating-advice-exactly-what-to-say-in-a-first-message/
OKCupid has several entries with various studies they’ve done on online dating. The link above goes into what you’ve asked about a bit.
And there is some hope: I, at least, sent the first contact message to the guy I’ve been together with for almost four years 😛
@Archy: “if there are more men than women […] the guys are probably best to try the scattergun approach” I quite disagree. When you’re outnumbered, you’d better go for a quality approach. Besides, women appreciates quality over quantity (unless you’re a hunk, then quality is optional 😉 ). In other words, to “beat” the competition, don’t go for quantity of msgs (you would be just a number in the mass); rather, stand above the crowd, reading and understanding the profile, writing a personal and detailed (but not lenghty) msg. Stand out, make yourself noticed. Obviously it takes more times; look… Read more »
Quality is good, but even with quality you need to meet the right person as we aren’t compatible with everyone. Even the best profiles surely get rejected sometimes so it’s still a numbers game but you are trying to beat out the others playing the same game. You might win at number 1, or 101.
@Archy: “You might win at number 1, or 101.”
Sure. Quality is not an assurance.
OTOH, if you write crappy and meaningless msgs, nobody will answer, be it the 1st or 101th time. 😉
Quality messaging gives you a better chance, not certainty. But crappy messaging is basically wasting time.
Exactly.
Exactly. When I did online dating, I didn’t respond to most of the messages I got because they were clearly “scattershot” and I much prefer quality. Yes, actually reading people’s profiles, determining if you have some important things in common, and writing a quality response takes time, and it still may be ignored or otherwise not work out. But really, most women who would not respond at least in some way to a nice and thoughtful message are probably not women you want to date. If I got a nice message like that I always responded, even if I wasn’t… Read more »