Transcript provided by YouTube. Slightly edited with AI.
The Love Life Podcast with Matthew Hussey
Welcome everyone to the Love Life Podcast with me, Matthew Hussey. For those of you who are new here, I’ve spent 17 years helping people find love by increasing their confidence and relational intelligence. Today, I have a very special guest, Oliver Burkeman. I have been wanting to get Oliver on the podcast since I read his book, *4,000 Weeks*. It’s one of my favorite books in recent years, and while it’s not a love life book, it profoundly addresses how we use our time and approach our lives.
Oliver just wrote a brand-new book titled *Meditation for Mortals: Four Weeks to Embrace Your Limitations and Make Time for What Counts*. I’ve read it cover to cover, and it’s a fantastic piece of work. I’m a huge fan of Oliver, so I’m really excited about today’s conversation, and I think you will be too.
About Oliver Burkeman
For those who don’t know Oliver, he worked for many years at The Guardian, where he wrote a popular weekly column on psychology called “This Column Will Change Your Life.” His books include the New York Times bestseller *4,000 Weeks*, *Time Management for Mortals*, and *The Antidote: Happiness for People Who Can’t Stand Positive Thinking*. I’m thrilled to introduce both his new book and him to you today.
By the way, if you haven’t checked it out yet, be sure to give Matthew AI a try. If you have a question you’d like to ask me about your life or love life, Matthew AI can answer it in my voice, making it feel like a real phone call. You can try it for free by going to askmh.com.
Without further delay, let me present the wonderful and insightful Oliver Burkeman.
Hello, Oliver!
An Emotional Encounter with 4,000 Weeks
I have to start by letting you know what a fan I am. I read your book, *4,000 Weeks*, and I instantly began telling everyone that it’s one of the most important books I’ve read in years. My experience with *4,000 Weeks* was incredibly emotional; it provided me a sense of relief and the feeling that I share a good amount of DNA with you as a writer.
I want to thank you because it truly was a tremendous piece of work. Your new book, *Meditation for Mortals*, has a subtitle that reads “Four Weeks to Embrace Your Limitations and Make Time for What Counts.” It’s interesting—I had already pre-ordered a copy for myself before your team reached out to offer one. The moment I received it, I read it cover to cover. It’s yet another beautiful work, and I apologize for the long-winded introduction, but I am genuinely grateful for the work that you do.
Engaging in an Insightful Conversation
Please don’t feel the need to apologize for saying nice things about me; I’m happy to hear them! It’s great to be here. I think you’re one of the truly fresh voices out there doing remarkable work. I’m unsure how to label what you do, as it transcends productivity into something universally valuable for those seeking to live life more fully.
I’ll try to get through all my questions in our hour together. To what extent you’re aware of my work, I don’t know, but a significant portion of our audience is interested in finding meaningful relationships. I’d love to start there and then expand to a broader discussion about the overwhelming nature of life today, which often leads to feelings of anxiety, stress, and unhappiness.
The Importance of Commitment
One of the points that struck me in *4,000 Weeks* was your take on commitment. You suggested that people should settle in their love lives and that this concept shouldn’t be viewed negatively. Could you elaborate on that?
Certainly! First, I want to mention that I’ve only just started reading your book, which you kindly sent me. I’m glad to have started it, and I plan to continue. It’s clear to me that, to some extent, we are all targeting the same big stuff here—whether it’s through romantic relationships or how we organize our to-do lists and schedules. Ultimately, it’s about how we engage with the world.
When I suggested that people should settle, I meant it in the sense that settling involves accepting trade-offs. Choosing to enter a relationship with one person means forgoing the possibility of others. The same applies to job choices and where you choose to live; this is simply part of being human.
It’s essential to note that this doesn’t mean you should commit to someone who isn’t right for you because somebody told you to settle. The reality is that every option we have carries some downside. When someone is stuck in commitment phobia, they often believe they aren’t closing any doors. But the truth is, every decision we make closes off other possibilities.
If you decide not to enter a committed relationship, you are spending valuable years doing just that. While this might work for some individuals at specific life stages, it is equally important to recognize that time is finite, and we must be mindful of how we use it.
The Value of Commitment
What gives commitment its value—especially in a relationship context—is the act of shutting down other possibilities. If we lived for eternity or could exist in many places simultaneously, being in a committed relationship wouldn’t hold much meaning. We only have this one life to choose from, and that’s what gives our choices significance.
I often receive inquiries about partners who feel like they’re “70 to 80% right.” How should someone navigate that dilemma? Should they lean into it, or do they continue searching for the right person despite the ticking clock of life?
This is such an insightful question. I apologize in advance if I tend to relate deeper human relationship questions back to productivity, but I believe there’s value in finding an intersection between these concepts.
Navigating the “Good Enough” Partner Dilemma
The 70 to 80% “good enough” scenario is indeed a tricky one. On one hand, it seems too imperfect to settle for if 100% happiness is attainable. However, in many aspects of life, if you write a novel that is 70% as good as the best ever written, that’s still an excellent novel.
The stark reality here is that we often cannot reason our way to a conclusion about such personal matters. My journey toward embracing limitations has taught me that developing an intuition to guide these decisions can be incredibly helpful.
One helpful perspective comes from the wise psychotherapist James Hollis, who suggests asking, “Does the path I’m on enlarge me or diminish me?” This question contrasts strongly with the troublesome inquiry of whether something will make you happy. Connecting with your intuition and understanding if a relationship is a path of growth can provide clarity.
When I first faced this question in my own life, it was more of a gut feeling. But later, that inquiry helped put things into perspective for me. In terms of relationships, there are types of difficulties that indicate a relationship is not right and those that are part of healthy growth.
Making Wise Choices in Relationships
Additionally, I find that Carl Jung’s perspective is helpful: You only need to figure out the next step. Each moment only requires you to make the wisest choice for that day, and that in itself can be liberating.
There will be days when that means breaking up or proposing, but often, focusing on what you can do in the immediate future allows for healthier decision-making without the pressure of needing the perfect answer right away.
Conclusion
It’s crucial to understand what you, as a human, can realistically inquire about. Ask yourself what your next step is and embrace those intuitive nudges. It’s this balance of rational thought and emotional understanding that helps navigate the complexities of relationships.
Thank you for sharing these insights, Oliver. Your perspective has provided a fresh angle on what many struggle with every day.
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This post was previously published on YouTube.
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