Danny writes a letter to Elliot Rodger in hopes that someone else might see themselves in that situation and get the help they need.
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I just got back home from Animazement a short while ago and during that time I pretty much didn’t look at any news. Well, it seems that on Friday, Elliot Rodger fulfilled an apparently year long plan to exact what he conceived to be a plot of revenge against his “enemies”. His “enemies” were women who were not attracted to him and the men they were attracted to instead.
On Friday May 23 Rodger shot and killed 6 people, and then killed himself.
I’ve been reading some of the coverage and it’s quite sad that this attack has become fodder in spitting venom at this group or that. Even uglier is the seeming double standard that its okay to blame a group for the attack but if said group defends against that generalization THAT is considered derailing or being distasteful. But nevermind that.
What I want to get into is the fact that I feel for him. (This is going to sound like I’m talking to Elliot even though I know he is no longer around to hear my words. But maybe there are some other guys out there in Elliot’s position who could use them.) There are plenty of people in his position and this particular instance had a terribly tragic ending. Such an ending should be prevented.
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What you did was wrong and not justified, but I do understand the feelings that may have played a part in what you did.
As a guy that spent an extremely long time never dating, never being in relationships, and never having sex I can understand where you were coming from. It is quite frustrating and angering to go through life and never meet someone to connect with. It gets lonely. It gets dark.
Now I’m not sure if you were raised on the idea that you deserve a woman, picked up the idea that you deserved a woman, or if you were just lonely. But when it comes to meeting people (regardless of what comes of it) it takes one major thing.
Patience. Contrary to the experiences of people who seem to meet a different person every week there are a lot of people who go long spans of time without meeting someone. It gets lonely and it can be real easy to take those long spans of time to heart. But you MUST hold out. A long lasting connection, or even a temporary or sexual connection, can be and often is hard to come by.
I don’t want to scare you but there are a lot of people who go an extremely long time before they find such a connection and there are also a lot of people who never find one. A part of finding relationships, love, and sex is holding out until you find what you are looking for.
Elliot you were 22 when you chose to carry out your “revenge”. That’s still a fairly young age and you still had a lot of time ahead of you to keep looking. And about your revenge.
The women you killed weren’t your enemies for not being interested in you. Just as I’m sure you have your own tastes in women those women had their own tastes in men. The fact that you weren’t compatible with those tastes doesn’t mean something was wrong (with their tastes or you) that needed to be fixed or some sort of wrong that called for justice.
The men that you killed weren’t your enemies for being the ones those women were interested in. Different people have different tastes and that is the way dating and relationships go. Think about it like this. Let’s say you meet a woman and you have some sort of connection with her. And out of nowhere another guy felt like you were his enemy simply because that woman was interested in him, not you, and that to correct what you did to him he decides to kill you.
In the end there is no question what you did was wrong and it cannot be defended. To me a more pressing point is to address the feelings that very common in a lot of men but where only a few of them choose to take the kind of action you did.
The loneliness is understandable and the pain is something I can empathize and sympathize with. But you simply can’t hope to correct the situation by killing other people, much less killing yourself.
A lot of people are going to wish you didn’t kill those people.
A lot of people are going to wish you didn’t hang around certain people (based on label alone).
A lot of people are going to wish you had killed yourself.
Those wishes are mostly based around their own satisfaction rather than preventing what happened.
Elliot I wish you could have found some help with how you were feeling.
If you had, then (I would like to believe that) you would have been able to handle your situation a lot better and you would have likely met someone.
I’m sorry you didn’t get that help.
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I think in the end that’s what it comes down to. Some people are not able to handle being in the situation of not connecting with others and helping them out would do a lot of good.
The old saying “Hell hath no Fury like a Woman Scorned” is a joke…
The truth is: Hell hath no fury like a MAN scorned, because beyond Mass Shootings, men take “revenge” on individual women (and their kids) for leaving them All The Time!
It’s the reminiscence of the women and children as cattle that men so much loved to take advantage of, and still do in many places, as long as it’s lawful. The entitlement of today has traces of this past.
You’d think someone would have noticed this a long time ago.
From my personal Facebook page I shared a friend’s blog post which was an open letter address to his son. I commented whilst sharing it that I don’t think any other story has given rise to so many male bloggers doing open letters or addressing Elliot directly in their posts even though he is gone, my own included https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/cc-you-should-have-given-it-time-an-open-letter-to-elliot-rodger/
I think we are all hoping that the next wannabe Elliot Rodger reads our piece and becomes at peace. He rally didn’t need to exact any revenge.
Damn fool you were Elliot.
I think we are all hoping that the next wannabe Elliot Rodger reads our piece and becomes at peace. He rally didn’t need to exact any revenge.
No he didn’t need revenge. He needed help.
In my opinion, Elliott Rogers was a victim of his own inner demons and unfortunately, his impulses cost a number of people their lives besides his own. I agree that he could not reconcile his internal definition of “manhood” with how he perceived the rest of reality. But like every individual; the decisions he made began and ended with himself. But it’s also unfortunate up that there are so many people who are invested in trying to use this tragedy as a way to attack the MHRM and to generalize Rogers’ actions and attitudes as being “typical” for masculine behavior.… Read more »
In my opinion, Elliott Rogers was a victim of his own inner demons and unfortunately, his impulses cost a number of people their lives besides his own. I agree that he could not reconcile his internal definition of “manhood” with how he perceived the rest of reality. But like every individual; the decisions he made began and ended with himself. But it’s also unfortunate up that there are so many people who are invested in trying to use this tragedy as a way to attack the MHRM and to generalize Rogers’ actions and attitudes as being “typical” for masculine behavior.… Read more »
“Speak your mind”, eh? Fine. “… it’s quite sad that this attack has become fodder in spitting venom at this group or that. Even uglier is the seeming double standard that its okay to blame a group for the attack but if said group defends against that generalization THAT is considered derailing or being distasteful.” This was my initial reaction to hearing this story, and it shouldn’t have been. This tragedy should have been examined as a means of learning more about ourselves of humans and how we react to societal pressures. It shouldn’t have turned into a battleground on… Read more »
Why do you need to belong to either? I remain unaligned because that’s how I best navigate this debate. It allows me to take the best of both worlds because I’m not rooting for a team. I’m defending the MRM a lot at the moment because I think they’ve had a lot that’s false written about them, but I’m not an MRA. You don’t have to be an MRA to not buy into threat narratives peddled about men, and you don’t have to be a feminist to not be a misogynist (and I’m not stating that all feminists/MRAs are one… Read more »
If that’s the case, then why does the current narrative seem to be pitting one team against the other? Going into the whole gender discussion, I thought that I would be able to gain an understanding of both movements and try to find a place in it – even if that meant choosing neither side in the end. But there seems to be an overwhelming amount of black and white thinking that doesn’t allow for moderation. Everyone’s trying to fit all of the problems they perceive the world to have in one cause, or enemy. For feminists it’s patriarchy, for… Read more »
You are overwhelmingly more valuable alive than either of these groups are.
You are not a threat just because of your gender. No-one has any right to put such a sexist pressure on any man just because they are male. The threat narratives that crop up around men are false and they will be challenged.
I hope you’re right. I just wish they were challenged internally by feminism, because that movement is such a juggernaut at this point that any external voices get drowned out.
The amount of times I’ve been called a misogynist by some feminists in comments where I defend women’s right to abortion and hold zero sexist attitudes is phenomenal. There are bad people in that movement who really are destroying the reputation so much, they’re so vocal that so many just give up even trying to debate. I’m so close to giving up discussing the issues completely, especially if you dare mention male issues because you’ll be seen as a sexist so quickly for daring to want true equality for all people.
This article is a day old and it’s likely that no one will see this anyway. Just had some things to get off my chest. This site seems to have voices from all over the spectrum and doesn’t seem overtly radical, so maybe I’ll stick around for a while.
Likely it wont but I’d like it if you continued to hang around here anyway. I can understand why you would be frustrated and believe me I am too. But walking away doesn’t work, that only makes thing worse.
Danny: I personally don’t think that civil discourse and disagreement is at all hate. There are so many perspectives to peoples’ experience. And they can helpful and enlightening and create more empathy. One of the things I like about Good Men are the writers who are dads of girls. They have a great perspective on women because of their tremendous fear of something happening to their daughters. As a mother of a son, I have different fears for my boy. Silly example (yet still very sad): I didn’t want him to buy the grey or black hoodie, but wanted him… Read more »
It was on Twitter. I’m sorry I looked at so many tweets, I don’t which one. I will try to find again. I have heard that some have been passed on to local police and campus security. I promise I’ll keep trying to find again.
I appreciate you looking Linda and I don’t hold any ill will towards you please know this.
And honestly you are one of the few people who have actually responded to my request for some sort of evidence that Rodger was MRA. Most are just ignoring the calls for evidence and continuing to make the claim.
Heading to the memorial service at UCSB in a bit. Two friends with daughters were potential/intended victims. Neither hurt. One was at sorority house and the other worked at the deli, that Elliot shot up and killed Chris Martinez. The girl wasn’t working when he shot up the deli. He used to stand outside the deli and look at her through the window. She was nice to him. She would ask him if he wanted to come in and order food. He’d run off if she talked to him. Female students at UCSB have been told not to wear any… Read more »
Would you mind linking to those MRA Elliot-supporting screenshots?
Female students at UCSB have been told not to wear any Greek (sorority) identifying symbols on their clothing or accessories. There is fear of copycat killings–sadly and horrifically, there are screen shots of support for what Eliott has done, on MRA sites’ comment section. I’m curious where you have seen these screenshots of support? I’m asking because when this happened there was a mad dash to say that Elliot was MRA/PUA and/or MRAs/PUAs influenced and supported his thinking. Well its looking like he was anti-PUA. http://www.justfourguys.com/special-post-elliot-rodgers-retribution-manifesto/ It’s a great place to talk about and learn about important men’s issues and… Read more »
Yeah, it’s like how some of the backlash to #notallmen seems to be code for “stop pointing out when we’re being sexist”.
I had a debate on facebook that basically had someone try say shutup and let females talk however they want in regards to the sexism and calling out sexism with not all men comments…I unliked that feminist page for it.
Yeah, Danny…you are nailing it right on the head. There seems to be a large contingent of folks who have a problem with men discussing their issues in any sort of organized setting. The MHRM is not the bugbear that everyone is making it out to be. Feminists are allowed and encouraged to vent and express their anger and disdain of the way things appear to be to them, but when men do the same, it is a cause for alarm and fear and something to be silenced as quickly as possible. How is that in any way shape or… Read more »
But be prepared. Oh yeah the preparation has come in handy. I’ve seen bright and clear how the gloves have come off and tactics that would not be tolerated otherwise are suddenly fair game. Furthermore, there are a large number of feminists who feel that this discussion of masculinity has to be conducted “under feminist supervision” if they want to allow it at all. True and if they would just admit it we would all be better off. I’ve already been told that I am feeding Rodger’s sense of entitlement and that my post here is simply telling him to… Read more »
In all honesty, I prefer articles like this more.
Thanks for being the sole voice of reason. Whether that will translate into equal page views is another matter.
No Danny, you dont have pro MRA leanings. You are a man who is concerned for other men because you know first hand what its all about. I call that a human being with empathy. 🙂
Or maybe – just maybe – you have gotten MRAs wrong.
Sorry JT but you don’t get to decide how I identify.
Youre right Danny I dont, sorry for that, I was actually complimenting you. The way I see “titles” like MRA or Feminist is that it can be used to label you any which way the person decides to use it. As we both know both groups have their fair share of toxic individuals. But have it, if you want the title far be it for me to try and say otherwise.
Sorry for getting a bit snappy myself JT. But I think I know what was happening here that bugged me. …I was actually complimenting you. I think that we could all use some communication on recognizing that one person’s compliment could be another person’s dismissal or insult. Let me explain why I didn’t take kindly to what you said. Over the last few years I can’t count how many feminists have condescendingly told me “you’re not an MRA” or “you’re actually a feminist” or “you’re a feminist but won’t admit it because (whatever silly reason that usually involved blaming MRAs… Read more »
No sweat Danny, I have read enough of your stuff and from my view youre a pretty cool guy. I totally get what you mean about people twisting themselves in knots, but for the life of me I just cant use either label. The nutjobs from both sides definately make me want to steer clear. 🙂
I think highschool cured me of the group dynamic. 😉
Good post by the way.
Then you are in a great and unique position to
separate the wheat from the chaff! Separate the real issues around men’s well being from misogynist hate. Hopefully your voice can rise above the misogyny.
As the mother of a 13-year-old son, that is my sincerest wish.
All the best to you.
Linda, there is not nearly as much hate in the MHRM as you are being led to believe. There is anger though; I won’t deny that in the least. There are men who are angry about issues regarding their children, their employment, and myriad other reasons that are personal to them. However, there is also a dialog that tries its best to frame this anger as being “harmful” to women and/or children. You want to know why the men on sites like AVFM are so angry? Second Wave Feminism told women that they were entitled to their anger about how… Read more »
It’s not your fucking anger, it’s misogyny that women aren’t accepting. Be angry as much as you wanted, male anger is something women have always had to deal with, even with their own lives.
And even though there are the kind of people you talk about, whenever a person who doesn’t accept misogyny searches about MRAs (and even more AVfM, these idiots) you can clearly see blatant, gross sexism/misogyny all over. Not to mention misandry as well, how they can be misandristic!
Spot on. Parents, if your kid is fucked up don’t rely on cops. That’s the actual opposite of what I would deem a first response, which is the cops main job. I feel for this kid because of a clear amount of neglect that (I deduce) was in his upbringing. Every one who is searching frantically for the source of this tragedy needs to widen their lens and see that simple truth. Kids, you aren’t grown yet. There’s a reason the phrase “it gets greater later” exists. It is about getting old. Finding relationships that are worth the effort, no… Read more »
Correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I’ve read the parents in this case went through multiple trained professionals, and intervened themselves by having him take extreme videos down from his personal pages online. Only when that failed to alleviate the issues did they go to the police.
Beautifully written, Danny. And very important. I also think the parallel track as written by the Daily Kos is also important. Hate sites like the ones Rodger visited are part of the problem. Female writers that write about these sites receive death and rape threats, including having their home addresses published. I write this from Santa Barbara where we are all reeling from this tragedy. A few years ago we had another school shooting. That one was a 14-year-old white boy who shot and killed a 13-year-old gay Latino boy. The shooter frequented white supremacist/homophobic sites. He too needed mental… Read more »
Thanks for chiming in Linda.
Now get ready for this….I actually have pro-MRA leanings…
Come on now. Caroline Criado Perez in the UK launched a notable campaign against those making online threats to her which resulted in several arrests and convictions.
Unfortunately the same people that want to preach that this is a problem with masculinity are the same people who will be staging protests against group that are trying to bring attention to male suicide and men’s mental health.
An unfortunate truth Adoginthenight. I’ve already noticed that those same people you speak of are blazing across the net using this attack to blame others. Its pretty horrible behavior and I have seen before that they would not tolerate it when done to them. I guess its okay as long as it suits your needs.