Ben Dutka fears “manly”and “masculine” have devolved to mean “stupid” or “Neanderthal.” Is he right?
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When I was in college, I visited an elderly friend of the family. At one point, she asked me to move one of those heavy stone birdbaths; just a few feet, from one side of the patio to the other. “I can see it better from my kitchen window,” she explained. “I want to be able to see the birds drinking when I make my coffee in the morning.” I obliged and moved the birdbath.
“Very manly,” she said, smiling.
The smile wasn’t sarcastic or mocking. The tone of voice didn’t imply a joke. She was paying me a compliment. To her, the term in question wasn’t impregnated with various stereotypes, assumptions and other skewed beliefs.
But has anyone noticed “manly” has become a derogatory term these days? Whenever someone uses it, it’s almost invariably meant to be sarcastic or tongue-in-cheek, or even downright insulting, hinging on the cliché that “manly” corresponds to “stupid” or “Neanderthal.”
In other words, when one uses the term “manly man,” we’re expected to picture a brute, a dunce, a Type-A womanizer and borderline drunk, a weight-room junkie whose life revolves around testosterone and adolescent dares. At this point, some people are firmly convinced that manly and masculine are negative labels.
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Now, I’ll be the first to admit men have indeed earned their negative stereotypes over the years. At the same time, I reserve the right to be insulted by entertainment supposedly geared toward males that is unsurprisingly devoid of intelligence or subtlety, but rather seeks to titillate and shock. It’s why Spike TV has the dumbest assortment of programming in the history of television.
On the flip side, you’ve got the inane, insipid Lifetime or Hallmark made-for-TV adult bubblegum trash geared toward females. As I have the right to roll my eyes at the latest car chase, intelligent women have the right to change the channel. But we both have to admit that yeah, this entertainment continues to exist—and is in fact quite popular—for a reason.
The point is that all stereotypes are grounded in truth, and so, all stereotypes and clichés always return a kernel of truth. But what happens when we start to lose sight of previously confirmed foundations? What happens when we have no idea what certain terms even mean? Some continue to rail against traditional concepts of maledom, but while it’s never a good idea to restrict an individual to a predetermined set of rules, should we foster widespread confusion?
Should we start destroying any terms previously seen as complimentary, simply because we’re obsessed with gender equality? Where does it end? The adjectives both women and men used to find flattering, and were always meant to be flattering, have been branded sexist or somehow shaming to others. In other words, if someone calls me “manly” because I can move a birdbath, it’s somehow a veiled insult to someone who couldn’t move the birdbath. Despite the fact that the speaker of the word never intimated any such thing.
I wonder if this is only for the sake of appearances, though. As we always seem a breath away from telling people it’s illegal to say something deemed derogatory, everyone walks on eggshells. It’s the unspoken rule of the current regime. It basically says, “be very careful with what you say, how you say it, how you look at someone, what you do with your hands,” etc.
And as we all have to follow this hard-and-fast rule, lest the mindless mob with torches and pitchforks shows up on our doorstep, we feel we have to toe the line. When we’re saying anything that can be heard (or in the case of the Internet, seen) by others, we have to frown on words like “manly.” We not only have to assume the worst of men, but we also have to pretend we’re being egalitarian and hence, protective and enlightened.
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However, when you speak in private, especially with women, you get the sense they wish “manly” wasn’t seen as such a disparaging term. I think more mature women have watched the transformation over the years and frankly, they don’t like it (or they’re not sure they like it). Confusion reigns: Is it a bad term or not? Who knows anymore? It’s especially tough for younger people, who don’t get what’s happening. You always see questions from really young girls, asking “what is manly?” or “are manly qualities a good thing?”
So, maybe “manly” has actually struggled on, viewed in secret as a positive trait by most, but publicly—and loudly—decried as something to avoid. One has to wonder how many terms receive the same treatment today.
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Masculine is still above water in social media at 62% positive but certainly takes its fair share of shots.— Howard K. 30db
Photo credit: Getty Images
I am paraplegic after an accident in 2005. My pca is over 70 and she came to the USA from Kenya. She has no trouble asking me for something that she thinks is MAN thing. Then there is my sister. She is 5 years my junior. She latched on to Gloria Steinam and Women’s Lib hook,line and sinker. Until she married a manly man in 76 she made life miserable for me. I was a chauvinist pig. I have never married and have always been uncomfortable around women.
I certainly hope that these terms are not derogative. I rather think they wonderful adjectives to describe a particular man..not all men necessarily. Some women, not all women, can be deemed womanly and feminine. What is the insult here? To me, its a compliment. I hope my beautiful son stays manly and masculine. We are slowly evolving into a sissy, sexless society. I think that women still find raw masculinity attractive and seductive.
Masculine, love every part of it, Feminine love every part of it. I am a woman and a police officer – masculine. I look at all people as good, human and take what stance makes you comfortable and you. Labels are for boxes.
Tom and dj is right. I want no man box. I’m a man and a human. I have likes and dislikes. I do what makes me happy and God help the one who criticize me for it. KMFA. I will run into a burning building to save you if I can. I will feed a baby in the middle of the night. I will care for you and I will kill those who will harm you and me. I will decorate my body how it pleases me. I will take our child by the hand to show the beauty of… Read more »
And to be honest, I expect that from a woman too. As you are my equal and a partner so we both survive.
Yes absolutely! When most every college/university in the country teaches that maleness and masculinity is a system of oppression and a disease from which men must be cured, maleness has become so incredibly demonized.
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Agreed, there is a section of society who wish to male manly and masculine derogatory words. To an extent they have succeed as the mainstream media seems to have bought into it. I still remember that whole Huggies thing were a daddy blogger objected to the portrayal of fathers as inept parents. It wasn’t just men who complained and Huggies changed it. I also remember reading an article complaining about dadvertising. It was again main stream media complaining about men being portrayed in a positive light. The issue is that the advertising really resonated with women. As long as there… Read more »
I’ve been schooled on using the term ‘manly’ by other men, so I don’t use it. Though I’ve never had someone school me for using the term ‘masculine’. I personally don’t think there is anything wrong with desiring someone for masculine or feminine traits. Women like it when men get protective. Men like it when women are nurturing, open and vulnerable with them. This is the heart of attraction for both heterosexual and homosexual people alike. I think what people don’t like is not that we can be masculine or feminine but that certain things are seen as only masculine… Read more »
I will just add, that in general, there tends to be history of putting down media that is geared toward women when it’s about love stories or when it’s nice and sweet. As if this is a lesser form of media because it’s about wanting love, like you have done here with Hallmark. Women’s media in general is somehow seen as ‘less’ then men’s. But not all of us want to watch 30+ year old men hooking up with 20 year old girls who are simply portrayed as eye candy instead of fully realized human beings, or guys getting blow… Read more »
“We all both have feminine and masculine sides.”As long as we continue to identify an emotion or an act as being feminine or masculine, I believe we’re denying the respective gender, their full identity as who they are. When my wife is ill and I make meals and take them to her in bed, cover her up when she’s cold, it’s part of who I am as a nurturing “male.” When my wife puts up insiders on the window of this old house or the time she replaced an alternator in one of our cars, she’s being all “female.” There… Read more »
What make you think that a genderless society is wrong? You have hard evidence to back it up.
Tried it in the 70s, with the same radical voices doing it to women. They bought it…for a short time, and then they returned to what they are. Bras went back on, legs were shaved again, the white wedding was back on, and feminine dress went right back in style. The playboy bunny went from being a Monty Python caricature worthy of the holy hand-grenade, to something so sought after by women that one could not find one on a shelf, finding it plastered on buttocks, shirts, hats and all manner of clothing for women. Same will happen here as… Read more »
Hey Tom – I hope you realized that I didn’t make that comment about genders above. I don’t want to live in a genderless society. Though I do want to live in a society where people are completely free to express either their feminine or masculine selves. Some people will be more feminine, others will be more masculine and others will fall in the middle. We should all be allowed the freedom to express what we identify as. I personally think a genderless society will produce similar issues, even if on the other side of the spectrum, as a society… Read more »
Yes, but when we grant certain rights and privileges only to one of t hose genders and continue to deny such (father’s rights, male choice, male draft) freedoms to the other is when we have a problem. We speak of female bodily autonomy, but strip that from our boys right out of the gate with a violation of their body. We do it again at 18, with he draft. We do it again in marriage. We do it again in divorce. Heck, we even charge men more for health insurance…when it is we that die younger….and we have every excuse… Read more »
DJ, voices of reason like yours have to be heard in places like this. There are plenty of choir lofts where we can preach to the choir but that’s not getting us anywhere. Most GMPers are nowhere near like thinking with us BUT there are some that may be impacted by what you and others say. Records need to be set straight and there are times that it does happen that people take notice. The truth is that if it were not for our speaking out, this would be no more then a typical liberal feminist site that people would… Read more »
Erin, I appreciate what you’re saying but I will always struggle with the idea of men having a “feminine” side and women having a “masculine” side. But I think you clarified it with “People need the freedom to express their feminine or masculine selves.
“I think what people don’t like is not that we can be masculine or feminine but that certain things are seen as only masculine or feminine or that a man can’t have qualities that were previously though to be feminine without it taking away from his masculinity and vice versa for women. We are Ying and Yang. We all both have feminine and masculine sides. And they come in so many different combinations. I think people want to be free to express both sides without judgement that it makes then less.” You state it very well Erin. People should not… Read more »
Thanks G.
Quick note to Ben …. With my earlier rant, I failed to tell you that I liked your article and appreciate your perspective. It reflects a view point that isn’t very often shown here. Great job.
Thanks!
I grew up with a father who tried to “beat the bitch out of me”. He wanted me to be a “manly” man. He was an asshole, and his ideas of masculinity were toxic and harmful. I’ve known plenty of men who I would describe as masculine and manly however. The most interesting thing, is that these people did not care about whether they lived up to some arbitrary standard of manliness and masculinity. They were simply people. People who tried their best to be a good person. You either work to be a good person, or no matter what… Read more »
“I grew up with a father who tried to “beat the bitch out of me”. He wanted me to be a “manly” man. He was an asshole, and his ideas of masculinity were toxic and harmful. I’ve known plenty of men who I would describe as masculine and manly however. The most interesting thing, is that these people did not care about whether they lived up to some arbitrary standard of manliness and masculinity. They were simply people. People who tried their best to be a good person. You either work to be a good person, or no matter what… Read more »
Your father was not a masculine man, Josh. He was not because he adhered to none of the virtues of true masculinity. He was a facade, and angry man still chasing his insecurity, still unable to find his manhood and his hate and frustration was taken out on you…and for that I am sorry for you. That is the problem with the dogma the author speaks about. They take men such as your father and use him to blanket masculinity when he is further away from such virtue then the feminist writing about it. Strong, confident, masculine men have no… Read more »
We often wish that there could be a referendum or verdict on certain words, terms or phrases; some sort of definitive ruling that would leave us all on the same page. Language rarely works that way though. Words frequently have different meanings or connotations at the same point in time, depending on who you ask, and these ones are no different.
How do you come to this conclusion? “Now, I’ll be the first to admit men have indeed earned their negative stereotypes over the years.” Is it based on fact or a false perception forced upon men. Did men who fit this stereotype exist? Yes but they were the exception and not the norm. The norm have been hard working men, husbands and fathers who built roads, railroads, fought wars. For many years it was women and children first as it is now. For years gave up their lives to protect their families. MOST of the first responders that died in… Read more »
Great point, Tom. Its as if, in order to speak of our issues we’ve all been rote taught to include the obligatory appology for being men. Blew right by him. Blew right by me too. Guilt and shame are the packing tape holding the man box together. Makes me wonder, will women not only start to pick up the check in dating, but, in 20 years be picking up the check for all the damage that gender feminism has done to men and our culture from dad discrimination, to negated DV aid, to the male only draft and every other… Read more »
:The norm have been hard working men, husbands and fathers who built roads, railroads, fought wars.
Yeah, and they were not treated as equal human beings by their male bosses in terms of having decent wages, living and working conditions by the Robber Barons and/or even by bosses of today.
Do you think that will change with women as bases, or do we need to changing it from the bottom up?
Remember, as things have gotten better for women, as more women have come into power, things have not only stagnated for men, but gotten worse.
Are we even pondering the correct course of action?
It doesn’t matter whether women have advanced or not, the point is that male bosses will never ever treated their male workers as equal partners in America.
Some real, meat and potato essays from our pov these last days, and this one is like the icing. It is as astute an explanation of this phenomenon as I’ve yet to see, and quite frankly I’ve grown weary of it. I’ve grown weary of people’s judgement of my kind of man, just as I’m sure the more sensitive guys have grown weary of a lifetime of the same. ..and who is being brainless here? I tend to question their intellect when I see them speaking of something they know dic about while professing a wealth of knowledge referenced in… Read more »
DJ, your reason for posting here is similar to mine. We are voices in the night that need to not only be heard but more importantly listened to. Too many times where I threw up my hands and wanted to walk away but something in side of me keeps me coming back.
Every time something is printed where men are asked to accept a new “man box” we have to speak up. There is no room for ANY man box. We have to keep fighting to see that ALL men are represented.
Thank you Tom. All men are to be represented. It is not either or. But both and. I’m tired of the man box. Women have gotten rid of theirs should they choose. Now it’s our turn.
Totally support men and wanting to be rid or stereotypes.
But women have not gotten rid of theirs. It’s a long battle that we sometimes fight and win against an sometimes cave into and conform too. 🙂 It’s not easy for any of us.
Erin you are right.
Women have not gotten rid of theirs.
“Too many times where I threw up my hands and wanted to walk away but something in side of me keeps me coming back.:” I’m there right now Tom. Patience at an end, tossing up the hands. The latest post from a “male feminist” dropped me off that cliff, still shaking my head.. I wanted to write here, now I ask myself why. I go back and forth every day. Something, that same illusive thing that you talk about kept holding me from jumping into this pool. I simply could not push myself over that hump, feeling I’d be wasting… Read more »