You’re gonna have to do more than be nice to get the woman.
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You’ll notice a trend in my articles that speak about men being kind, respectful, and loving — particularly towards women. I don’t often use the word ‘nice.’ When I talk about ‘good men’ finishing first, that is a very different message than ‘nice guys’ finishing first. Why? Because it’s true what they say, nice guys do finish last.
But, how can I say that when everything I talk about seems to be in the direction of being nice?
To make sense of this, we first need to define what we mean when we say nice guy. I used to be a nice guy, and I used to always finish last when it came to women. I wouldn’t get the date, I wouldn’t bring someone to the dance, and I was always the best friend. But I couldn’t understand it because I was such a nice guy!
That was, and is, exactly the problem. When we say someone is a nice guy, or that we ourselves are a nice guy, what is it that we are really saying? What we are saying is that he is a people-pleaser. He is flexible, probably to a fault. He is a chameleon and can usually adopt the qualities of the people around him in order to fit in.
On the surface, this may seem like a collection of positive qualities, but is it, really? What’s really happening here is that we are describing a person who does not have their own defined identity because they are always trying to make someone else happy or to fit in with another group or make sure they don’t offend anyone by saying something out of line. What we get from this is basically a pile of silly-putty that the world around him molds into whatever they want him to be.
And he doesn’t even know who he is.
Being nice does not get you respect. It does not get you noticed. It does not get you that promotion. And it does not get you the woman.
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A man like this can never truly hold a woman’s attention or respect because all he will end up doing is conforming to her every want and need and sacrificing his own happiness to do so. She wants a teammate, she wants a man, not a puppet. And very often, that’s what being a nice guy makes you.
What men who describe themselves as nice guys are really saying, whether they mean it this way or not, is that they are willing to sacrifice their own standards and wants and needs to make other people happy – particularly a woman, because they think this is the only way they can keep her attention. They say this without understanding that it makes them not only boring, but untrustworthy. How can you truly trust someone you don’t really know? And how can you really know someone who is always trying to fit into the mold of what someone else wants without defining themselves first?
A man who has a strong identity and knows who he is will stick with it. One of the strongest driving forces in human psychology is staying true to how you identify yourself. “I AM…” What comes after those words? If you are an athlete, your identity drives you to get up, lace up, and work out every morning — because you are an athlete. If you are an avid reader, the second one book gets finished you will be on to the next one, because you are an avid reader.
But if you are a nice guy, you will be whatever the people around you want you to be. Society conditions us to think that being ‘nice’ is a good thing but being ‘too nice’ is a bad thing. What I think, is that they are very often one in the same.
Being nice does not get you respect. It does not get you noticed. It does not get you that promotion. And it does not get you the woman. If you are always trying to be nice, you probably will not always be honest. If honesty will hurt someone’s feelings or offend them, a nice guy will avoid it completely. This is avoiding the truth (which we call lying), and since when did that become a good thing?
Does this mean we should walk around being mean and offending people all the time? Obviously not, but we should be living a life of integrity which does not always entail making every single person around you happy. When you attempt to do this, you lose your own identity and wake up one morning wondering who the hell you even are. You will wake up wondering why you get mistreated when all you do is try to give everyone else what they want. You will wake up wondering why you never get what you want.
Trust me.
So, men, instead of being nice — be kind. Be trustworthy. Be strong. Be respectful. Be caring. Be honest. These are the qualities we should really take pride in.
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This article originally appeared on James Michael Sama’s Blog. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook.
Photo credit: iStock
Nice guys finish last? True. Solution? Simple. Be a sociopath. To the ladies who say that isn’t what they want? Two words: Tucker Max
Also CITATIONS
The most attractive quality to women is confidence. You can’t be that stupid. No man would willfully date a feminists if he couldn’t do better.
This is stupid
Well with the kind of women that we have out there these days really does speak for itself.
Then don’t fight to get the girl, fight to get the promotion. Why does this have to be so complicated?
So tired of the “nice guy vs bad boy” debate. It’s not nearly as complicated as everyone wants to make it, and it’s not what everyone thinks it is, either. It’s not that bad boys are exciting. It’s not that nice guys are people pleasers. It’s that women want to date a man they feel something in common with!!! A lot of these “nice guys” (who really are nice) want to date any woman who is halfway attractive. They don’t bother to think about whether they actually have something in common with that woman! They just want a woman, any… Read more »
you know it! marry me!! ??
We always did and always will.
Women prefer to date bad boys because we want excitement,but when we want to settle down we look for nice guys 😉
That’s a poor deal for the nice guy! So the bad boys get the sex and then after the women are all used-up then they finally settle for the nice guy because the bad boys no longer want them? Nice guys would be better off learning some game so that they don’t have to settle for used-up women!
If you refer to a woman as “used up” THEN YOU ARE NOT A NICE GUY.
AND WHY DO YOU ASSUME HE IS A NICE GUY?
And why can’t he use the word used-up? That is exactly what you are, used-up by a guy(or guys)
Used up is exactly the correct term.
More recycled cliches. If you really want to help men, why be like the rest of the dating industry? Nice guy, bad boy, alpha/beta, friend zone, etc. it’s all a bunch of cliches. Tell us something we haven’t heard a million times before. If someone really is so nice that they have no backbone at all like the nice guy archetype described in this article, telling him not to be so nice will not help. The only reason someone would act like that is because they have low self esteem. It could be due to a past trauma, brain chemistry,… Read more »
Depression in particular is a raw deal. Depression can reinforce and even create every kind of unattractive quality in a man and concerted effort to change one’s behavior is a complete waste of time because depression is a problem of serotonin and/or dopamine deficiency / imbalance in the brain and nothing short of medication will make things better. The talking heads love to talk about why a guy is unattractive to women, how about we talk more about how he got that way to begin with, because if you don’t have a solid understanding of where you came from, you’re… Read more »
women, of course, can continue being themselves. What a load of phooey
Well, the site is called the Good Men Project…
Well, the problem is, if you are someone whose true self is undesirable in the eyes of society, then being yourself will not earn you any respect either and it may even earn you disdain and contempt. For example, I am a loser, and my whole life is pretty much an expression of that. I was a social outcast in school and as a result failed to form meaningful relationships. Because of the self-esteen issues and depression that resulted from that, I have no real achievments and failed to get involved in things I am passionate about. I am 27… Read more »
It’s possible that if you aren’t as far along as most others your age (eg have a career, degree, or trade, on the way to having a home, etc) you may feel more attraction for younger women who are probably more so in a similar stage of life as you are. I am 30 and due to long term illness I was quite behind with no career, no university, no kids, single, shitty car, no house, haven’t been out of the local area for 10+ years, no holidays recently, no overseas travel ever, etc so I feel quite out of… Read more »
still part of the problem and not part of the solution.
Hey- I guess what’s a bit confusing to me, is that we can like someone very much, but as some women have mentioned here, not be attracted to him. This is a fairly common occurence, as I have noticed, for women. And it can be really a struggle. You want to want to kiss this person, but you just don’t. I have experienced this, and there isn’t anything you can do to MAKE yourself be attracted to another person. So, why do I not hear men speak of this much? Why is this different for them? Many of the men… Read more »
Potentially men may be more likely to be friends with women they’d date/have sex with. Or maybe men are better at being direct in rejecting them. If I suspected a friend liked me but I didn’t like them, I would not flirt with them, I would be careful as to how I acted around them and how much attention I gave them, I’d probably also bluntly but in the nicest way I could think of let them know I don’t feel that for them. The most common reason men feel the women are using them I suspect is because the… Read more »
I’m on that situation recently,i just told her that i’m not interested on being more than friend and it’s up to her to accept it or not. I told her that she is amazing and i am pretty sure that someone more suitable will come her way on the near future. She is a very kind and sweet girl,but has this needy vibe.
Nice guys finish last because they didn’t know it was supposed to be a race.
Am I the only one who thinks we need to get the definition of nice right? The article is ok, just that what you are describing isn’t a nice guy. Maybe is should be ‘The real reason people without a backbone finish last’
PS: Nice guys don’t finish last, they finish best.
-Nice Guy.
Based on my own personal experience, men really need to hold back and not be too nice when they start dating a girl, even if they really like her. That means don’t be too agreeable and don’t put forth too much effort until the man knows she really likes him. For example, men shouldn’t take women out to dinner until they have at least had some passionate kisses or made out with the woman. Of course if the women chases after the man and makes it clear from the beginning that she likes him, then the man can be himself… Read more »
The word you’re looking for is ASSERTIVENESS. It’s about going for what you want, while maintaining respect for those around you. And it is what people ACTUALLY want from you. People don’t want to be around a pleaser (unless they enjoy that, which is rare). People want to be with others who speak their minds, stand up for what they want, don’t hide their feelings (only for it to burst out inappropriately – right?)
You owe it to yourself, you owe it to the WORLD – BE YOURSELF, loudly and proudly.
Wow, I am a ‘nice girl’! Need to work on my self-assertiveness. Thanks for this article!
Lifelong nice guy here. Caused me nothing but trouble until I found a book last year “No More Mr. Nice Guy”. Have read it several times and still learning about myself. Hard to break the habit.
I agree with what most people are saying, simply put, don’t be a doormat. I’m reminded of a quote I read a while back: “Nice guys finish last because they didn’t know were the finish line was in the first place.” -author unknown
I wish I had said that, Marc. Perfect quote for what I believe and teach other men.
The “finish line” is established inside our own head and heart. The finish line is made up of our values, expectations for ourself and others, and the confidence to live by those fearlessly.
Everything else goes much easier. Care what people think, but don’t care what they think about you.
There are millions of smart, emotionally mature, loving, sexual, and value driven women out there looking for that guy.
And he IS a nice guy – but on his terms and nobody elses.
You can win by not playing the game in the first place. Refuse to be part of a rigged system where you are expected to do all the work. Realize that you don’t need it to be happy, and you will be free of stress.
You are no one’s appliance or ATM.
James, Thank you so much for this well thought out exploration of the nice guy. For years I grappled with the dreadful tendency to please everyone and still do from time to time. But I am learning gradually that while it helped me get along with others and avoid confrontation in the past, it has outlived its usefullness and has caused me to not only question my identity but also avoid others in an effort to safe myself which in turn makes me unreliable and unable to foster authentic connections with others. Thank u again for this remarkable contribution. Sincerely,… Read more »
I’m sorry, but I think you’re leading us down a maze of linguistic semantics. Nice, good, whatever, your description is just too fuzzy. I think what you are really saying (and I read it twice just to make sure) is that one shouldn’t be a doormat. Don’t let people walk all over you. But this applies to all relationships and not just those involving nice guys. However, I acknowledge there are many relationships where a nice guy friend plugs the holes in other people’s relationships. It all comes down to emotional needs. If a girl doesn’t get her emotional needs… Read more »
Got to agree with you. Nice is a very broad term. One can be nice without letting people walk all over them or constantly “people pleasing”. Those are defects of character and have nothing to do with being nice. Many nice people may exhibit those qualities, but not all. The whole, “You’re my best friend, I hope to meet someone just like you”……..has nothing to do with how nice you are……..she likes your personality but isn’t physically attracted to you. Period! Move on, the last thing you want is a relationship with someone that isn’t hot for you, or with… Read more »
Hi Kevin, I think your last point is very interesting and it’s a subject I’m trying to write a blog post about; how women (and sometimes men) find validation through their sexuality. I’d love to see a world where a woman does not have to be sexy to be deemed valuable or attractive. I’d love to see music videos and adverts where the women have expressions other than “I need to be fucked right now”. I’d love to see a society where a woman is judged by the content of her heart and her head rather than her bra size… Read more »
Nice Limpet Girl. It’s really beyond nice, but I’m still making the point.
Ha! 🙂
Cheers limpetgirl for acknowledging there is more than one side to this dynamic than the man simply being an entitled douchenozzle/pathetic doormat. 🙂
If a woman with a bf comes to you to fill holes in her life, immediately get her out of your life. In my experience, and many others, women like this don’t make good friends and will try use you for your nice qualities. If her bf isn’t fulfilling her, she needs to leave and find someone who does instead of treating the “nice guy” as a partial bf without sexual benefits (not as a best friend, because these users are 1 sided and are not there for the nice guy).
Do guys have friends? and if so, what is it they do that makes them friends? men should just straight up tell woman that their idea of friendship is activities that have an ending and where there is no talking or connecting on any type of emotional level. Why do men have such a hard time saying “I’m a guy, I don’t have friendships the way you do. I have aquaintences. We don’t talk to eachother, we don’t share what’s on our minds or how we’re feeling. Friendship is to have another body around, not to connect with that body.… Read more »
That’s incredibly sexist of you. Sharing that sort of information is hardly the only way in which one can be close. Women share secrets as a way of bonding and that’s fine, but it’s rather sexist of you to demean men’s friendships because they aren’t normally focused like that. Male friends have similar interests, are a source of commiseration when the wifey is being mean and a place to turn if things get bad and they need somebody to have their back. Just because we don’t engage in all that asinine gum flapping doesn’t mean that we don’t have friends.… Read more »
There’s no need to be insulting about men’s friendships or women’s friendships. Howver, I agree that generally women shouldn’t try to be close friends with men. Because most of the time, perhaps all of the time, if a man wants to hang around with you it’s because he wants to get in your pants. Men normally don’t have unselfish “friendships” with women. They are around you because they are attracted. But women honestly aren’t “using” these men for emotional support or favors, they are treating him exactly the same way they treat female friends, because women get emotional support from… Read more »
“Howver, I agree that generally women shouldn’t try to be close friends with men. Because most of the time, perhaps all of the time, if a man wants to hang around with you it’s because he wants to get in your pants. Men normally don’t have unselfish “friendships” with women.” Is it just the men are bad, or is it normally that women don’t have unselfish friendships with men either? Maybe women enjoy the extra attenton? Or maybe women are far more picky than men in who they wanna date? Maybe it’s because society expects men to do the initial… Read more »
Nice bit of sexism there, or is that a sarcastic reply? I should have clarified, “If a woman with a bf comes to you to fill holes in her life” I meant in a very intimate life-long partner/lover type way, not just a good friend. The way I wrote it sucked though. I’ll try explain it better. If a woman comes to you to fill gaps in her life, in ways that her partner should be, then be wary. If she is after comfort and attention from you but doesn’t reciprocate then she’s not a good friend. This advice works… Read more »
Merriam-Webster
nice
adjective \ˈnīs\
: giving pleasure or joy : good and enjoyable
: attractive or of good quality
: kind, polite, and friendly
Sorry, still liking nice. This is known as a nice push back.
yea, nothing ends a conversation like dropping a dictionary and walking away
When you realize you don’t NEED women, it becomes easier to hold on to your integrity. If you keep putting your focus on them you become like Wiley Coyote chasing the Roadrunner. Don’t settle for someone just because you are afraid of being alone.
This here. Been single all my life and glad that my disposition is the same.
A saying goes, “never fall for someone that considers you an option.”
Very well said, thank you.