Lisa Hickey explores the intersectionality of issues on The Good Men Project: race, gender, fatherhood, language, prejudices, sexuality
My daughter Shannon hates the way I am always comparing The Good Men Project to real life.
“Hey Shannon, can I ask you a question?”
She rolls her eyes as only a teenager can, knowing what’s coming. “What now, mom?” I had just picked her up from a friend’s house, who had curled Shannon’s hair into golden ringlets. Tonight is prom night.
“So, at the Good Men Project today, we’ve been discussing gender, lgbt stuff, sexuality. And I was just about to send the people I work with an email that said, ‘I’ll get back to your question about heteronormativity the minute after I drive my daughter to her very heteronormative prom.'”
Shannon laughs. “Hah hah hah, funny one, Mom.”
“But before I send it…is that true? Are the people going to the prom all straight couples?”
“Well, actually…there has been at least one gay couple each year that has gone to the prom since I’ve been at the high school. But…also, you know, don’t you, that the number of transgendered kids in my school that is really quite high? There’s that home for transgendered kids right next to our school. It’s for kids who have been kicked out by their families. They’re…you know…not completely changed. They are all in different stages.” She pauses. “It used to kind of gross me out but now I think it’s cool”
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“It used to kind of gross me out but now I think it’s cool.”
As I type that sentence, I worry that it’s the “wrong” thing to for me to say in public. That it “used to kind of gross me out” – while still a completely honest thing for a 16-year-old to say – is still “wrong” somehow. That it’s perpetuating stereotypes. That by merely mentioning the word gross in the same paragraph as transsexuals it will somehow make it ok for people to actually say that they, too, think it is “gross”.
But then, “now I think it’s kind of cool” isn’t much better, is it? That makes it seem as if changing one’s gender is the trend of the day – not much different than dying ones hair or getting a tattoo. Or that becoming friends with someone transgendered is a form of tokenism: “Hey look at me, I have a transgendered friend. I’m open-minded, I’m cool.”
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More than anything else at The Good Men Project lately we’ve been talking about whether there’s a right way or a wrong way to talk about these very difficult, provocative topics. The issues of gender, and race, and men’s rights, and domestic violence. Guns and war and homophobia and bullying. Gay marriages and the changing roles of dads and the objectification of women.
I think back to that moment when I was totally naïve, when Tom Matlack said he wanted to start an international conversation about what it means to be a good man in the 21st century. Did I really sit at that table with him, over lunch and Diet Cokes, and think it would be easy? Somehow, in my mind, I thought that getting the 4 million people who have come to the website since we started would be the hard part. That part of it ended up being relatively easy.
It’s the actual talking about all of those issues that are hard. As I said on a conference call the other day, “I don’t know what I was thinking. How did I not know that when we set out to talk about men and masculinity and goodness that I would have to do a whole lot of talking? And that it’s actually unbelievably difficult.”
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Joanna Schroeder wrote a post recently “Can Hipsters Be Racists, Too?” In it, she argues over the importance of language.
It was that post that I was talking to Shannon about earlier in the day, in between picking her up from school and driving her to a friend’s house to get her hair done. Joanna mentioned how using the word “ghetto” is racist. Shannon uses the word “ghetto” to describe a host of things. We had been in Target the other day picking out shaving cream. She didn’t want the unbranded kind that was on sale because it “looked kind of ghetto.”
So when she explains her choice of words to me in the car now, she’s explaining it to me patiently, like she would to a child. “The shampoo looked cheap, mom.” That’s what I meant by “ghetto.” In fact, I use the word “ghetto” as an exact synonym for “cheap”. Race doesn’t occur to me. I think you are racist if you think “cheap” is a racial slur.”
Shannon is less sure of herself about the “n-word.” “Here’s what confuses me, mom. Don’t black people use that word all the time? With themselves? As a positive word? They are the oppressed class, and they are leading the way with the language by using it themselves. That’s what confuses me. Don’t worry, I never use it. But it confuses me.”
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When I was growing up, I didn’t talk. Some people are shy, I was more like non-existent. I was afraid to say anything. I was afraid to swear because that was wrong. I was afraid to talk about politics because I couldn’t say with any certainty which of the sides I thought was right. I was afraid to say things that sounded dumb. I was afraid to sound too smart. I was not only afraid to use a word like the n-word, I was afraid to talk about race at all. Surely I would offend someone. Surely I would say the wrong thing. I didn’t know people had different sexual orientations until my twenties because it never came up in conversation. And when you can’t say a word like “rape” out loud, guess what happens when it happens to you? Nothing. You simply don’t talk about it, the same way you didn’t talk about anything else.
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The victims of sexual violence on The Good Men Project — victims of violence, sexual assault, domestic violence are, for the most part men. And they feel just as marginalized talking about these issues as I did growing up. It’s difficult for them to talk about these issues. It’s not easy to be heard.
Part of what’s so rewarding with seeing this project grow is to seeing what happens when people are heard. Watching as people find their voice. Listening to them start out with superficial generalizations of the topics and get deeper into them. Seeing guys start groups or join with others who share their values. Watching connections take place.
And seeing how the actions of our community can create change. One of the things Tom Matlack set out to accomplish with the project was to change the perception of men in the media. Particularly dads. How often are dads portrayed – whether it’s in Hollywood or Madison Avenue — as bumbling, incompetent, absent, deadbeat or unengaged? And yet, we can see what happens first hand when we challenge these stereotypes. Forty-eight hours after a commercial by Huggies showed dads as the parent who weren’t paying attention to their kids because they were watching sports, we had posts up on our site, the commercials was pulled and Huggies representatives flew down to the Dad 2.0 conference that our writers were attending. Dads had a voice in how they were portrayed, and mainstream media and advertisers were listening.
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I wanted to talk with Jackie Summers about what I see the as prejudices against people who are black and the intersection with the objectification of beautiful women in our society. I talk with Jackie about race whenever we can grab a quick five minutes on g-chat. He is a black male who has written about race for GMP a lot. I have written about beauty. I want to find the overlap. To me – if Jackie and I walked into a room together, the first thing someone would notice about Jackie is that he is black, and the first thing they would notice about me is that I am not beautiful. It’s that moment of prejudice – what happens when you first walk in a room. It’s the reason I believe a kid like Trayvon Martin was shot. It’s the reason we took such flack for an article, “In praise of small-breasted women.” It’s ok to physically desire a woman with small breasts *as an individual* (the article also got shared and liked on Facebook over 2,000 times). But it’s not ok (said some very vocal members of our audience) to generalize personality traits from those physical attributes. It’s not ok to “pre-judge” what that women will be like, in any way shape or form, from the size of her breasts. Jackie doesn’t want to make the comparison between a woman’s beauty and race because, as he puts it “the pressure put on women to be beautiful is real and can’t be minimized. But there have never been laws against governing the treatment of people based on their attractiveness. As painful as it can be emotionally, there never was a civil rights battle for attractiveness, because there wasn’t systematic disenfranchisement.”
And so I drop it. Letting people NOT talk about issues they don’t want to is every bit as important to me as allowing them the space TO talk about the really difficult issues.
But I still wonder. The conversations I hear from men about women “I like beautiful women. I’m a man. And I want it to be ok for me to like beautiful women. I want to like what I like and not feel guilty for it.” is strikingly similar to the conversations I have with men who others call out for being racists and bigots, “But I want to be able to talk about how I feel honestly about race. I want it to be ok to talk about race without being called a bigot. I want it to be ok that I have a very real fear of walking into a ghetto.”
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Shannon has spent almost an entire day getting ready for her prom in order to look beautiful.
I didn’t want to tell her she looked beautiful. I wanted to tell her “Don’t go to the dark side.” I wanted to tell her that all those things she saw as the outward trappings – the manicured nails, the curls, the lip liner perfectly applied – the hours and hours and hours of time it took to get there – shouldn’t have been as important as they were. That it’s not what will matter most when you get older. That what you spend your time on is what becomes you. And intelligence, grace, open-mindedness should be way more important that beauty. I want to tell her it’s hard to work on a complex financial spreadsheet when you are waiting for your nail polish to dry.
But I don’t say any of those things. I chicken out.
I tell her she looks beautiful.
This is not a post about beauty. This is a post about intersectionality – the point where heteronormativity and racism and men’s issues and women’s issues and sexual violence and gay marriage and the changing roles of dads – and yes, beauty – collide.
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I hope that Shannon grows up in a world where there are no black actors or female presidents or stay-at-home dads or gay marriages or transgendered people – only actors and presidents and dads and marriages and people. And I hope that she realizes that she – just like all of the people here at The Good Men Project – can be the ones to help create a world that is that way.
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main photo: stopbits / flickr
“I hope that Shannon grows up in a world where there are no black actors or female presidents or stay-at-home dads or gay marriages or transgendered people – only actors and presidents and dads and marriages and people.” The stated wish above has to be contextualized for only bias based on negative experiences because they are many people who want to celebrate their unique culture/differences. I think it perceived “differences” only are problematic when you use it to discriminate or oppress people but I am sure Irish-Americans still want to celebrate St. Patrick’s Day and Caribbean folks will always want… Read more »
“the first thing they would notice about me is that I am not beautiful.” I beg to differ. 🙂 Well, maybe you are not model-like beautiful, ok. But human-like beautiful? Sure thing. Ah, subjectivity… isn’t it a bitch? 😉 WRT your thesis, well, I admire your enthusiasm and good-will, yet I think “humans will be humans” and there will always be some conflict and friction and suffering. Because anybody see things their own way, so they disagree and behave differently from expectations. I think it’s part of our free will: to be free, we need to be able to displease… Read more »
“Human-like beautiful” I’ll take it! Thanks! You made my day. 🙂 I think that free will is a very very good thing. And also that there will always be collisions, and some of them messy. But I simply love looking for solutions to difficult-to-solve problems. It’s what I do. It’s who I am. So when you say “life is not meant to make us happy” — no, I have no expectations of that, whatsoever. *I” am meant to make me happy, and despite my occasional complaints, I do a damn good job of it. 🙂 But part of what makes… Read more »
@Lisa Hickey: “But I simply love looking for solutions to difficult-to-solve problems.” And so do I. I’m a natural-born problem solver. 8) The issue I was pointing out, is the belief that we can solve everything; that we can stop suffering, once and for all. No, I think it’s impossible, and believing it make things worse, not better. In other words: – Striving for improvement: wise and useful. – Striving for “perfection” (put an ending to issues and suffering): impossible and prone to create more problem than it solves. I’ve been thinking on writing an article about this, but it’s… Read more »
I would really like to talk about this part of the piece: “The conversations I hear from men about women “I like beautiful women. I’m a man. And I want it to be ok for me to like beautiful women. I want to like what I like and not feel guilty for it.” is strikingly similar to the conversations I have with men who others call out for being racists and bigots, “But I want to be able to talk about how I feel honestly about race. I want it to be ok to talk about race without being called… Read more »
I don’t know what the answer is Mike. I believe in numbers. I told this story in a conference call the other day. About a family member who had been in and out of hospitals for 3 months with congestive heart failure. And one day, I had just returned from visiting her — we had been laughing and joking as we always were. And I got a call from the doctor who said she had 48 hours to live. And when I said “how can that be, she doesn’t seem to have changed” — the doctor said “It’s her numbers.… Read more »
Lisa, I think part of the problem is that there really are ways forward, solutions that are within our reach, that are supported by numbers, and yet will always get dismissed out of hand. I remember reading an article some time ago by Cory Booker, the pseudo-celebrity mayor of Newark, NJ about a school model that he wanted to import from New York City. The prototype for this model was the Harlem Success Academy. It had been brought to Mr. Booker’s attention when economist Roland Fryer demonstrated that it could improve student performance by an entire standard deviation. This was… Read more »
Mike, Could you write a post about this? I’m all for different kinds of solutions to problems. Or even your post of last night, about being mistaken for prejudicial behavior on the subway. I *agree* changing the culture is part of it. But to me, that’s why it’s important to understand the culture that systematic racism brings about. Have you ever rolled pennies to feed your children? If all you can do is survive — reading 6 books per week is a grand idea, but where do you get the books? It’s not that you can’t — sure there are… Read more »
“intersectionality – the point where heteronormativity and racism and men’s issues and women’s issues and sexual violence and gay marriage and the changing roles of dads – and yes, beauty – collide.”
Indeed.
One of the most fascinating things about The Good Men Project. We are truly at the crossroads.
While I share your hopes Lisa, given what humans are (merely human), I’m reasonably certain your wish will not be fulfilled.
So it goes…
In five years, the whole world can change, Wet One.
“Gross” “Cool” First you have to even determine what these words mean. “Gross” like, I”m glad I don’t have to do that? “Gross” like, Oh ick, that’ person’s not normal? “Cool” Like, they are ok by me or like a token. Those indicator words need definition. So too, does she need history on words like “Ghetto.” She says that it indicates cheap…but things were cheaper in poor areas, which were inhabited in many places by people of color so……. Words take journeys in their meanings. Just look at the word “gay” once meaning happy or bright, then homosexual, now meaning… Read more »
And as for beauty, man…it may not be a systemic disenfranchisement, legally and otherwise, but beauty still equals a kind of power that you either have or do not have. You can buy it, sort of, but you still lose it. At 43 I’m probably past the cusp of having that power. I have other power, but I can tell you the invisibling of middle aged women (in terms of their sexual value) isn’t something I feel good about. Oddly, most middle aged women I know have better more satisfying sex lives than they ever did in their 20’s, when… Read more »
“The invisibling”. Sounds like horror movie! That’s a great term for anyone being marginalized. There are the hate crimes, of course, but the invisibling is profoundly troubling too, no matter who it happens to.
But the question, to me, is different. It’s do we police “words” — or do we help the groups that are take actions so that those words no longer apply to them. Do actually allow them to be used, diffuse the harshness of their meaning, so that the ability to hurt someone with those words is lessened? I would rather change actions than words. I would also rather be in control of what is said against me. *I* want to be the one in charge of the meaning of a word when someone calls me a name. That’s why I… Read more »
I think for me, if I’m going to use a difficult/sensitive word, I should know it’s history. Then I use it and can stand by why I use it.
Totally agree that in an ideal world, that would be ideal. But this is *exactly* the reason I used my 16 year old daughter as an example. Shannon is as polite, respectful, and thoughtful a kid as you’d ever hope to meet. We talk about these things all the time. But she uses the word “ghetto” because she thinks it means “cheap”. She uses it because her friends use it and means the same thing to all of them. How would she know it was a difficult / sensitive word? And that was my point about the difficult / sensitive… Read more »
Absolutely. I think it’s a great moment to say…well what does that mean? Where did the journey of the word come from. For me, if I know the history I’m less likely to use something, but that doesn’t mean I won’t. It’s that I’m empowered to know about the totality of the word. It’s vital to talk about things I think and to be able to choose about words.
I don’t understand why “knowing a word’s history” is the ideal. That implies that the history of a word should be given power, and thus the word itself gains power through its history. This is how weapons are created. If we stop making pretend that words have power based upon their historical uses, then we stop creating weapons built out of sound. I don’t fear being called a word that has no historical meaning for me, and I shouldn’t have to fear being called words in general. Shouldn’t we try and get to a place where words don’t have historical… Read more »
AHA!
You just said that SO much better than me Mike L, but I agree.
I don’t want words to be used as weapons.
I don’t want words to have power.
“Weapons built out of sound.” — what an awesome turn of the phrase.
I agree. Thank you.
Words do have power. They are tools that humans use to communicate. That I am able to type these particular letters out in a particular order to send you a message that makes sense means they have power. Great writers, poets, speechwriters know this. Hell, any kid who has teased another kid knows this.
You take away the power of words, any word, we get nothing.
You want to take the violence away? Deal with the people using the tools.
All words have meaning and context and history. I find that beautiful actually. Without meaning and history and context I’m not sure we could have word play, poetry, great prose.
Our words are part of how our culture develops. They are a deep structure of how we communicate.
But you agree that it’s ok to allow words to be used as weapons — weapons that can hurt other people in tangible ways because everyone agrees on a harmful meaning for that word?
People as a group give the word power to be used against someone else?
I’m not sure what you are asking, but no I don’t want people to use words as weapons and I’d expect from knowing me and reading my work you’d know I find that a repulsive idea, using words to hurt people. I understand that people often do exactly this, despite what I would want, both intentionally and unintentionally. And that using words that have started a change (ghetto, gay, retarded) may have the accidental effect of hurting people unintentionally, so I think it’s important for people to know as many meanings of the word as possible and then decide if… Read more »
Well no, of course not Julie. When I’m rushed I sometimes forget to go back and double-check my pronouns. I did not mean YOU would ever use words as weapons. I know that about you. What I meant was — suppose there is Person X across the room. And THAT person uses words as weapons. And Person Y is on the receiving end of those words. For me, personally — I would rather connect with Person Y and create change on that end. Because chances are, Person X is someone I dislike. I happen to not like people who are… Read more »
Julie — I was thinking about power and words. And of course I understand and appreciate the power of words. I’m a poet, a stand-up comedian, a copywriter. Words are a gift. Words have tremendous power. In fact, one of the very first advertisements I did was for a Suicide Prevention hotline. The headline was “Words are the most powerful things on earth. Some have even been known to stop a bullet.” And it went on to state that calling a suicide hotline can very often save a life. And if I do anything in my lifetime, I’d like to… Read more »
We are more in agreement than you think. Thanks for clarifying though, it helps.
I have to ask a hard question as gently and kindly as I know how. You acknowledge that part of your objective is to challenge the perception that fathers are “bumbling, incompetent, absent, deadbeat or unengaged.” A good objective. How do you reconcile your “fairness to fathers” objective with support for the Democratic party — given the persistent attempts by the Democratic party to marginalize fathers from their children? http://www.minnpost.com/minnesota-blog-cabin/2012/04/custody-laws-our-government-inaction http://www.nownys.org/fathers_resp.html http://www.glennsacks.com/nysp/index.htm At this time, I cannot imagine how a compassionate or faire person can defend the Democratic party. Can there be any issue that is more important than the… Read more »
Anthony, The Good Men Project is not pro-Democrat, nor is it anti-Democrat nor any other political party.
We agree that the marginalization of fathers from their children should be talked about. Would you or anyone you know want to write about this? Email me at [email protected]. We would love to get more voices about this debate. Thanks.