(TW for mentions of violence, bullying and suicide)
About a year and a half ago, a story broke about a little girl who was teased for having a Star Wars water bottle because Star Wars “is for boys.” The geek community rose to her aid, informing her that she shouldn’t let her tastes be dictated by gender norms.
While the boys in question were being mean, this article is not about them. Rather, it’s about the response to the incident and some who took it too far.
It would be churlish to call sticking up for a five-year-old girl White Knighting; however, there was also a certain amount of Pedestalization. The Geek Commandment of Thou Shalt Honor Geek Girls was invoked, the rationale being that geek girls are a prize above rubies. This is condescending and basically defeats the purpose of the idea that geek has no gender, but that’s not the worst part.
At least a few of the commenters suggested that the girl whack the boys with her bottle. Even more shocking, one poster pondered how he could legally beat up the boys, or hire a kid to do so.
Remember, we’re talking about six-year-old boys.
This is an extreme example, but it shows a troubling aspect of geek culture. There is an increasing amount of hostility among geeks, and few seem to be addressing it.
In the essay “The Paranoid Style in American Politics” Richard D. Hofstadter noted that what distinguishes political extremists is their feeling of powerlessness and persecution. I don’t think geeks are extremists, but I believe that many consider themselves outcasts even though in many ways they dominate mainstream pop culture. On the Internet, the traditional assets for bullying (physical strength, intimidating size) fall away. Literally anyone can be a bully or be bullied online.
Literary critic Terry Eagleton has referred to religion as a form of pop culture. That’s debatable, but in many ways pop culture and geek culture in particular has become a substitute for religion. There are the prophets (Gene Roddenberry, Stan Lee, J.R.R Tolkien) and the fallen idols (George Lucas…) There are the holy scriptures (and the debate over what is “canon”) and the threat of excommunication (I’ve been told many times to “turn in my geek card.”) Flame wars can resemble crusades or even inquisitions.
There is also a way in which geek culture resembles sports fandom. Geeks root for their teams, and not just in a speculative could-The-Hulk-beat-Superman way. Some male geeks mock Twilight fandom, but is Team Edward vs Team Jacob that different from Team Marvel vs Team DC?
It’s not good enough to enjoy a geek movie anymore; the movie has to pwn the competition. (Discussing the success of the latest superhero movie on one forum, a fan wrote that the fans of another franchise were “slitting their wrists”) Isn’t there a point where this stops being fun?
To further the religion analogy, I once thought there were two types of fans. Evangelists would preach the Good News at the drop of a hat (“you’ve never heard of _____? You’ve gotta see it!”) Gnostics, on the other hand, want to keep stuff for themselves (“you’ve probably never heard of ______”)
Now, I see there is a third option: geek ecumenism, namely accepting that there may not be One True Path to geekdom. As with the religious variety, it’s probably the most difficult road to travel, but it’s also the most rewarding. If there are Geek Commandments, is it too much to ask for a Geek Golden Rule?
Doug: “That depends strongly on what sub-branch of geekdom you’re talking about. Anime conventions seem to have a relatively balanced male:female ratio. At large Magic: the Gathering tournaments, however, the male:female ratio is probably somewhere around 50:1.”
I’ve see ratios worse than that at most major events I’ve been to. I would love to see some solid numbers on the subject though, because I find the assertion that the number is close to parity interesting. I can understand why geek women would avoid such events and the fact that geeks of all flavors tend to be relatively unsociable probably doesn’t help increase visibility. Still, the idea that the numbers are anywhere near parity (rather than simply less dramatic than one would believe) leaves me a little skeptical.
monkey: That’s true. I wouldn’t say that’s made society any more accepting of the sub-culture itself, though, just some of its more popular fallout/icons. As for your experience regarding the two groups, I believe that particular divide can be easily explained by the Greater Internet Dickwad theory.
I’ve see ratios worse than that at most major events I’ve been to.
Been to Sakuracon? Con.TXT? Yaoi-con? Escapade? Vividcon? Just about any Creation con? You’d see less sausage than a kosher deli, if you’ve even heard of them. How about the Stumptown Comics Fest or Emerald City Comic-Con, if parity’s what you’re after? If they’re not 50/50, they’re close enough that I didn’t notice. I think what you’ve got is sampling error.
@monkey It’s mostly the examples you choose. In making the point that geek has no gender, why choose only examples of fan idols who are male? In finding an example of geeks mocking other geeks, why the “male geeks” of Marvel/DC versus the Edward/Jacob “Teams” of Twilight? Why use sports as an example and imply it’s made up entirely of over-competitive, rabid spectators when that’s only true for a certain slice of sports culture?
What I get from these kind of gendered examples is that you’re not talking about geek/fan culture as a whole. I know you’re talking in broad brush strokes here, but when you talk about “an increasing amount of hostility among geeks”, I think it’s important to be clear that you’re not talking about “geek culture” as though it’s some monolithic thing. It’s that kind of language that erases the experiences of male fan fiction writers and female sports fans. There’s a specific form of “geek” masculinity that is valorised by producers that “dominates mainstream pop culture” at the moment, but that doesn’t mean that those of us who might choose to identify as fans or geeks have to speak from within the categories provided to us. I’m really not trying to be a nitpicky asshole here – but I think we should be just as careful about the language we use when we’re talking about media/culture as when we’re talking about anything else to do with gender.
What I think has gone mainstream is the general cultural artifacts- the movies, the books, etc. I’m very, very old- I can remember a time before Star Wars. Before Star Wars, the top movies were Gone With The Wind, Jaws, The Godfather and Sound Of Music. Now, pretty much the only high grossing movie without a geek following is Titanic. That’s what I mean by mainstream. (I’m less sanguine about Big Bang Theory, which I find pandering.)
Movies like Avengers are mainstream blockbusters so most people who watch them are mainstream. They are not geeks – even though they are geeks who watch them. It’s like the Star-Trek movies : most people who watched them were mainstream, it’s only a minority that were trekkies.
Note how often geeks make statements based on what True Fans of X are, much like extremist religious folk tend to spend lots of time concerned with who is or isn’t With Them.
Joe Blogs: the whole point was that those were *negative* aspects of geek culture. I could have used a few female geek examples (the extremes of Twilight fans come to mind) but these were the examples fresh to me.
No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Avengers is music stream, but believe me 30 years ago it wouldn’t have been. Star Trek wasn’t either in its original TV run. There has definitely been a shift. (Star Wars is different, but it was the event that made everything else possible)
The Avengers is music stream, but believe me 30 years ago it wouldn’t have been. Star Trek wasn’t either in its original TV run. There has definitely been a shift.
Both Star Trek and Avengers have something in common : they were very popular with kids originally and when these kids became adult they watched the movies based on the TV-show or comic-book they loved when they were kids. It’s not just a geek phenomenon. Movie geeks are more interested in old cult movies, B-movies, Asian movies or direct-to-video horror movies than in mainstream movies. And I know about it, I am a movie geek.
Furthermore, the reason movies like Avengers or Star Trek are made is not to attract geeks. Originally genre movies were mostly low-budget movies shown in drive-in and were popular with young people – not only geeks. Major studios started to make them in the 1970s to compete with low budget studios. I’ve watched an interview of Roger Corman (he made ton’s of exploitation movies and was the king of the drive-in) explaining that when he saw Jaws in 1975, he thought that he was in trouble, because Jaws was exactly like the movies made by low-budget studios with a better budget, better actors, and better special effects. And this is what happened, in the 1980s : independent studios closed one after another and the ones that survived started to make direct-to-videos movies.
@noahbrand: My ‘ratios worse than that’ comment was regarding MtG events specifically. But to address your larger question, most anime related events I’ve been to do maintain parity. But most events I’ve attended related the gaming side of the culture, be it video gaming or tabletop gaming, tend to be overwhelming male. This is not to say I think these women don’t exist (and I have known a few), I’m just interested because what you suggest runs so contrary to personal experience.
I suppose it just may be me centralizing my thoughts around the portion of the culture I tend to participate in most often.
I’ve never been to a single convention, event, tournament or whatever related to gaming. Yet I game most of my day.
The only appeal an anime convention could have would be the cosplay part, if I had something (and I’m unable to design anything myself). Otherwise, I see no reason to go to conventions. Given my discretionary income, going to one would be like wanting to drool forever, and inflicting it on me. Also 90% of the content would miss their target (I’m not after blood, violence or sexualization, or networking, cute pets, or farming…I’m after stats management in complex games).
@Frollo: That’s confirmation bias if I ever saw it. Yes, while there are some niche interests among the various and sundry groups within the greater world of geekdom, you’re going to get some that are far more male-dominated, just as you’re going to get some that are far more female-dominated. I could take my own little slice of uber-niche geekdom (Transformers/mecha cosplay), and extrapolate from that that the ratio of all geeks everywhere is probably 20:1 in favor of women. Which is… not true. However, I CAN use that as a counterpoint to your MtG ratio of 50:1, as well as all the other niche groups that I’m part of that are female-dominated, and that brings us closer to parity.
Just because the girls don’t go to your LAN parties and your card tournaments, that doesn’t mean geekdom and pop-culture stuff isn’t close to parity. The gals have their own clubhouses because we just really don’t like having to bother with meeting the standards of male geeks on their turf.
PS- Have you not ever been to a convention? The ratio is pretty much even at all of them now.
“No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Avengers is music stream, but believe me 30 years ago it wouldn’t have been.”
What about The Avengers would have made it unlikely to be successful in 1982?
30 years ago The Avengers was not a comic known by most people. Maybe people knew Captain America (which had been done as a terrible TV movie) but that’s it. The special effects would not be good enough to pull it off.
I realize I’m speculating here.
I think most people knew who The Hulk was. Thirty years ago CBS’ The Incredible Hulk series was just concluding after a five year run where it enjoyed major critical acclaim and good ratings.
You’re right that Iron Man and Thor (let alone Hawkeye) were not nearly so well known, but I think it’s less a matter of The Avengers becoming more popular recently and thus getting a movie, as it is The Avengers movie (and its prequels) raising awareness of the characters. The 2000s superhero movie surge didn’t really happen because more and more people were getting into the original IP, it happened because studio executives realised that superheroes made good frameworks for generic Hollywood action-dramas.*
*Not that I have anything against Hollywood action-dramas or think that studios shouldn’t make them about superheroes.
Well, I still think there has been a change. The Incredible Hulk was more or less a kid’s show (and they attempted a sadass version of Th in a TV movie).
Let me put it this way: 30 years ago Comic Con would not be as big a launching pad for new movies and TV shows (Glee -Glee!!!- had a presentation at Comic Con a few years back.)
Heck the name Gleek is an example of geek becoming mainstream.
@Noah & L: Frollo and Doug S’ point is valid. They were pointing out that estimations in the breakdown of the Geek population by gender is next to impossible. Noone really has any idea if it’s “close to parity” “hopelessly male dominated” or even boasts “less sausage than can be seen in a kosher deli.”