Last week’s Amanda Fairbanks piece in the Huffington Post on college students and their “sugar daddies” has drawn a firestorm of attention in the media. As Fairbanks reported, sites like Seeking Arrangement and Sugar Daddie have grown in popularity during the recession, as more financially-strapped and debt-burdened college-age women seek out creative (if time-honored) solutions to their money woes. Fairbanks interviewed college students and their “sugar daddies,” exploring the question of whether these arrangements are just another form of prostitution, or something genuinely different.
Sites like Seeking Arrangement, of course, only facilitate the kind of sex-for-money transactions that have been going on for eons. Just as people had extramarital affairs before AshleyMadison.com, young women and older men sought out “mutually beneficial” relationships long before Al Gore invented the Internet. What these sites do is provide both ease and legitimacy for what was once secretive. They enable older men with money and young women without it to find each other far more easily than they did before. They also provide at least some small opportunity for young women to screen the “sugar daddies.” From a safety standpoint, Seeking Arrangement (which claims to vet its male clients) offers somewhat more protection than an old-fashioned newspaper ad.
It’s easy to overhype the popularity of the sugar daddy phenomenon. It’s safe to say that it’s neither as new as some imagine or as widespread as some journalists (and website operators) claim. But it’s also clear that the Internet, the recession, and spiraling student loan debt enable and encourage these relationships. And in some instances, these clearly are relationships.
Two female students of mine have told me they’ve met older men on Sugar Daddie (the older of the two main sites facilitating this service). One, Nicki, in her early twenties ended up in what she describes as a romantic relationship with a man three decades her senior. The last time I spoke with Nicki, she’d been with her older man for more than a year. Part of the deal is mutual sexual exclusivity, which she takes very seriously; the only difference is that the sexual exclusivity is explicitly tied to the monthly retainer she receives. Like the women in the HuffPo story, Nicki insists she’s not a sex worker. “My mom told me it’s as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor one,” she says. “All I did was use the internet to find a rich man whom I could fall in love with.”
It’s easy to understand the motivations of young women like Nicki. It’s harder, however, to excuse the actions of men twice and three times the age of the college students they pursue. The quasi-romantic nature of the sugar daddy-young girl relationship is troubling. The rich old man isn’t just buying sex, he’s buying status (if, as some of these men do, he chooses to “show off” his college student). If he’s buying her listening ear as well as her body (something that Fairbanks suggests is likely), he’s treating emotional intimacy as a commodity that can be purchased.
By blurring the lines between a genuine romance and prostitution, the sugar daddy relationship is more problematic than a traditional john/hooker encounter.
That pretense of intimacy is inherent in the term “sugar daddy” with its hint of the incestuous. While the term “john” (for a male client of a sex worker) suggests anonymity, “sugar daddy” reeks of emotional (as well as sexual) boundary violations. The implication is that the real fathers of these young women have failed to provide the right combination of emotional and financial support; the term reinforces the not-entirely inaccurate trope that younger women who seek older men have “daddy issues.” And it suggests that the older men who seek out “sugar babies” are looking for young women whom they can spoil and fuck, deliberately blurring the line between paternal indulgence and sexual objectification.
The real question is whether the term “sugar daddy” is an unfortunate misrepresentation of what’s going on, or an all-too-accurate description of something dark and especially ugly.
—Photo orijinal/Flickr
Really? This isn’t just a daddy issue. Sugar babies are women, younger and older, who seek financial stability and attention from a man they have an attraction to. In fact, that is the goal of every single relationship in the world. Financial stability, and attention and admiration from a person you adore.
This has nothing to do with one’s father. That’s a cheap cop out.
Also, not to trot out too much of a high horse, but are the villains here really these sugar daddies or the anti-labor, anti-education jerks who defund schools and make it impossible for so many college grads to find living wage jobs that they’re forced into the informal economy? And relatedly, is the most productive critique the one that castigates a handful of men for exploiting impressionable young women (though I admit I personally think they sound like creeps), or one that questions the conditions that created sex work–or whatever you want to call it–as the only option for these… Read more »
Something that always comes up in debates like this is ‘it’s a person’s choice” to do what they want. I don’t really think that that’s the issue. There’s a pretty big gap between can and should. Just because someone chooses to do something doesn’t mean that other people can’t disagree with the reasons why they’re doing it. I think selling relationships (whether they’re sexual, friendships, etc.) is creepy. There’s something about attaching a price tag to intimacy that just rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Like the article says, there’s something off about rich men who think that… Read more »
It is up to the young woman and not up to the old man to sign up with such dating services on the internet and to offer her escort services against payment.
This woman is an adult, intelligent and nobody is forcing her to do this.
Why to blame men for everything?
What I’ve come away with between Hugo and his followers opinions and the counter opinion and particularly Gucci Little Piggy’s blog is that Hugos brand of feminism is damaging to women in that they are boxed off as passive, helpless creatures and damaging to men because they are stereotypes as the default adults that are responsible for these child-women and because their sexuality is seen as something that is often dangerous and seedy. The counter position, which seems to be coming mainly from mra sympathizers seems to be the one that’s promoting egalitarianism and an expectation of females to be… Read more »
‘HUGO: It’s easy to understand the motivations of young women …. It’s harder, however, to excuse the actions of men twice and three times the age of the college students they pursue…… —– It’s typical Hugo, it’s the fault of the man, and the woman is the victim. However these young women are not minors, they are not drunk, they are intelligent – otherwise they would not study in an expensive college – and they decide out of themselves to sign up with a dating site for meeting older rich men, who are willing to pay them for their escort… Read more »
But the performance and commodification of intimacy has always been a part of sex work — google “GFE,” for instance (and what exactly is a “traditional” john/hooker encounter, anyway?)… I wonder if what’s “really” scandalizing about the piece isn’t so much the emotional labor, but the fact that a bunch of respectable college kids are involved (and mussing up people’s easy constructions of sex work to boot).
As far as I can tell, these are mutually agreed upon and beneficial arrangements — why is it anyone’s business? I suppose the women could get jobs at Starbucks, but that won’t go very far. It’s true that you probably won’t see many young men-older women type of arrangements, but I don’t doubt they exist; young men need to pay for college, too! At least these arrangements are honest — both partners know exactly what they’re doing and why, and what they can expect. It’s much more unfortunate for a 20-something to marry an older, wealthy man to support a… Read more »
It is not clear if these women are really using their income out of escort services for paying fees in colleges and universities. Maybe they use the money for something else… who knows? It’s not about old men either – it’s about men who are willing to pay – their age, race, looks are irrelevant. – The sole criteria which counts is the wallet. As you said at least these arrangements are honest… I also wonder how young men can pay for these fees in colleges as they are getting the same bills to pay. I think, payment of such… Read more »
I think it’s appalling that women must be coerced by the funding of their education into selling pieces of themselves – be they emotional or physical pieces. The term “relationship” in these arrangements smacks of rationalising what is inherently less than optimum. I have no qualms if women choose sex-work for themselves by themselves but coercion by financial constraint is just an awful reason to start. If College’s and Universities across the North World are serious about equal opportunities for both men and women in tertiary education, then they must also offer flexible payment options that will allow women (and… Read more »
[Sincere] I wish people would only downvote messages that are abusive. That was offered up as the rationale for downvoting. I want to read the ones that are not.
People downvote messages they dislike – abusive or not.
The other question is if your message even appears for up- or downvoting. – It seems there are filters and messages which Hugo does not like to read, for example critical messages from MRAs who keep young women and old men equally responsible for their agreements, often disappear as he deletes them.
Hey men, I’m really glad you guys know everything about how a woman’s mind works, but vote down every woman posting on this thread. Who’s misogynist again? So everyone’s saying how these women aren’t “coerced”… Let me tell you a little bit about what it’s like to be a young woman in debt. I worked three jobs at a time, while I was in school, to minimize my debt when I got out. For the first several years they were minimum wage jobs, which really really suck and have a super high turnover. In the past five years I’ve been… Read more »
You were certainly coerced to do the normal jobs, just like men are. But when it comes to prostitution you are talking about being tempted by easy money and a way out of the daily grind that most other people are coerced into. You speak as if you believe that hardship is something that only women experience and something that women should not have to experience.
Like Erin, you sound like a women that struggles with being as independent as men are.
Is that so Johna? Which part of my comments shows that I struggle with being as independent as men?
Leave me out of your personal agenda.
Whe n I was fresh out of school I also had loans to pay off. And it wasn’t always easy. But I never seriously considered prostitution ( or drug dealing or robbery ) as a solution. But then I’m a man. I could never expect to get sympathy for my poor choices.
“Hey men, I’m really glad you guys know everything about how a woman’s mind works, but vote down every woman posting on this thread. Who’s misogynist again?”
Okay, last time I’m going to bring this up. Everyone say it with me:
“How do you know WHO is downvoting the messages?”
and the second verse,
“How do you know WHY they are downvoting messages?”
Did I miss the tab on the website where I can see the downvoter’s chromosome structure and read the voter’s mind? That’s powerful online Big Brother mojo right there.
Hugo didn’t see anything wrong with using his status as a college professor to bang his students. But now he’s too old to make that work – it chagrins him that rich men use money to do the same.
Par for the course is that he details another social dynamic where even tough both men and women are freely participating, the women are victims ( because they lack agency) and the men are the criminals – because when there is a problem only men can be blamed.
I couldn’t agree with this more your comments on the pretense of intimacy that is inherent in terms like “sugar daddy” Hugo. And how it blurs the “line between paternal indulgence and sexual objectification”. That was a really stellar comment that really spoke to me. While I don’t think either party is thinking about doing their own father or daughter, one can’t deny the purposely incestuous connotation in using words like “sugar daddy” or “sugar baby” to describe relationships with older men. It’s to suggest that even “daddies” in general can’t have non sexual, non objectifying relationships with younger women.… Read more »
Erin
Would you support the idea of chaperons for women, an older brother perhaps – to help them navigate and make decisions relating to the job market?
Jonah – it depends in what context you are using the word “chaperon”. Do I think a woman needs a man to accompany her places? No. But I highly value the older men in my life (my brother included) that looked/look out for me and offered me advice about men and took an interest in me as a human being. Some of these men are related to me and some are not. I think men can have really positive influences over women’s and girls’ lives if their intentions toward a woman are looking out for *her* best interest, not what… Read more »
Erin
I’m sorry, I was being facetious – I don’t think Hugo and his followers realize how they construct women to be frail and passive and men to be the ones that are supposed to be responsible for them.
Well good for you Jonah that I wasn’t being facetious and I gave you a great answer. 🙂
If you don’t want to respond to it, that’s too bad because I was interested in your thoughts.
I think you are purposely over exploiting what Hugo often explores in these kind of gender articles. I also think you’re purposely remaining ambiguous about your thoughts on this topic out of some misguided battle against Hugo.
Erin, I think your general point of view stems from an inability to see older men as humans. You are objectifying them. In one broad stroke you portray older men as these masterminds who used their entire time on this planet to learn how to expertly manipulate women and on the other hand if any of them don’t fit your description, you say that they’re not masculine enough. You emasculate them, accuse them of being little boys who have bigger problems if there is something they actually enjoy about younger women besides the disparity of power and control.
Also, when I was 18-25, I was mature enough. Not only did I pay my way through college without prostituting myself, but I was responsible enough to be in charge of a platoon of Marines in Iraq. Every nation in the world entrusts 18-25 year old men to fight honorably on their behalf and be mature enough to make life or death decisions on the battlefield. You, on the other hand, are saying that 18-25 year old women aren’t mature enough to be entrusted with their own genitalia, let alone a gun. I’m not saying that 18-25 year old men… Read more »
I agree with you.
Feminism is like a two-faced Janus: When it suits them, when they want new roles for women, women are as capable or more capable than men. But whenever there is a problem that a woman is involved in – like prostitution, or when a women kills a man, or in divorce court, then suddenly the women are fragile and incapable, can’t take care of themselves, or take responsibility for their actions.
The thing is, I actually had to ask myself if Hugo and company were telling me that I, as a man, actually know what’s best for women better than they do. Because when I was 18-25, seeing these women date older men and trying my best to get a fair shake at a relationship (see my comment above), it turns out that I was right all along. Damn, if I only knew this information back then, then when all the women told me “no”, I could have told them they were clearly stupid immature little things. Then maybe I could… Read more »
Dungone, what part of my comments points to my inability to see older men as humans? I actually think these older men aren’t valuing themselves very much to begin with. And I think these younger women aren’t valuing themselves very much either. We aren’t *just* talking about older men having relationships with younger women. We are talking about a very specific kind of relationship where older men are paying women for their “companionship “and younger women are earning money to provide “companionship”. Now obviously everyone has a right to that. But from my experience I don’t know what man that… Read more »
I gave you an upvote on your comment just because you said a couple things that were common sense. But there’s a lot more that needs a good response. “what part of my comments points to my inability to see older men as humans” Almost all of it. My previous comment explained why, so I won’t repeat it. If you disagree with any of the other parts of that comment, let me know so I can clear that up. “We are talking about a very specific kind of relationship where older men are paying women for their “companionship”” Not every… Read more »
Dungone : “Almost all of it. My previous comment explained why, so I won’t repeat it. If you disagree with any of the other parts of that comment, let me know so I can clear that up” Dugone, your previous comment didn’t explain it. You made a lot of accusations about my thoughts but you didn’t back it up with anything I actually said. I think the fact that you can’t specifically point out which part of my comment lead you to believe I was objectifying older men means you don’t even know. So I will ask you a few… Read more »
Seriously?
I explained it thusly, right there… how could you miss it? ” In one broad stroke you portray older men as these masterminds who used their entire time on this planet to learn how to expertly manipulate women and on the other hand if any of them don’t fit your description, you say that they’re not masculine enough.”
That is what your comment did and I call it objectification. Do you need further clarification?
Yeah I do need further clarification because all you’re really doing now is restating a position that was based on malformed ideas to begin with. I made it really easy for you by running through the basic concepts of my original post in question form that was the original source of your accusations about my comments. You aren’t able to be conclusive about anything. I’ts ironic to me that your talking about me painting men in one broad stroke when I’ve pointed out to you several times now that I didn’t see anything all encompassingly wrong with older men and… Read more »
Hi Erin,
My experience is that people become less manipulative as they get older. But maybe that’s not true of Ashley Madison customers. I have met many rich “dicks” in my life, and maybe they are getting the bracelets they deserve. The sexual relationships I’ve been in with younger women have usually had an intellectual overtone, and there were usually also overtones of psychological support.
None of these were my students BTW. One ex-student.
I don’t see anything neccesarily wrong with older men and younger woman relationships Henry. Of course an older man can having a loving relationship with a younger woman. It’s not an all inclusive catagory. I just think in the caes of sugar daddies and sugar babies, we are talking about men and women using each other for the qualities none of us would really want to be used for. Although as a woman, it does bother me how men view their female contempories vs their younger counterparts. I’d just like to see more men take pride and excitment and desire… Read more »
Erin, it’s actually more difficult being in a relationship with a far younger woman than someone your own age. They typically haven’t gone through the same life issues; they’re more immature; they’re not as good in bed (the supposed beauty is there, but in a relationship it becomes less important to a partner– quickly,) and so on. So, I’m pretty sure that if I were divorced and wealthy, I wouldn’t resort to Ashley Madison. A younger woman who’s intellectual can be pretty exciting, but playing the teacher 24/7 can get old. Relationships probably depend on the unique qualities people possess.
Henry, then if it’s so much more difficult being a relationship with younger women then your own age, why do it? Why look for that supremey intelligent conversationalist wrapped up in a young body if it’s so difficult? Please don’t think I’m not disparaging your relationships. I’m not. My beef isn’t with you for dating younger women. I’ve dated older men. They use to give me more attention then men my own age. And at first it was nice but then I quickly learned what these men valued about me. Women can’t win here. But i don’t think most men… Read more »
Erin, I don’t think people actually choose their relationships a priori. I think they emerge from chemistry. On about three or four occasions, I had relationships of an older-younger nature emerge. As is typical of all of my relationships, I had known the person for over a year first. In one case, nine years. Most of my relationships have been with women within five years of my age (all younger.) I have heard that sibling rank order has something to do with preferences. I’m the oldest child in my family. My current wife is four years younger than I (a… Read more »
Yes Henry, I agree that relationships emerge from chemistry. Are you then saying that you haven’t felt chemstry for women your own age?
I have also heard about that study where sibling rank and order do beget preferences. I’m not sure I understand your last comment about women signaling men that tye are interested. Perhaps many women you’re age have signaled an interest in you but you weren’t interested?
Hi Erin,
I missed this. Generally you get cues from a woman if she wants you to approach her (sexually.) Otherwise, it’s not a great idea, at least not for me. Yes, I’ve definitely felt chemistry for women my own age. I’m married to a 62 year old (great chemistry.) She is four years younger.
Hmm, let’s see Erin. You don’t want to disparage Henry’s past relationships, but you **are** sick of all those old lechers hitting on young women all the time. So really, your beef **is** that Henry, or any other man dates younger women. At all. Why you feel compelled to offer the disclaimers is beyond me.
S.Gallo, you will notice in my response to Henry that I clearly stated that I don’t see anything all encompassing wrong with older men and younger women relationships. But I do see something wrong with the whole setup of sugar daddies and sugar babies. Further, while I see nothing all encompassing wrong with older men/younger women relationships, I do see something off putting in older men who place a premium on women that they will only date younger ones. I’ve done online dating and have had many men message me that have been older then me and the age range… Read more »
Ah, the joys of being over 50 and not feeling compelled to beat about the bush. If there’s one thing I wish I knew when I was younger, this is it.
It’s easy to understand the motivations of young women like Nicki. It’s harder, however, to excuse the actions of men twice and three times the age of the college students they pursue. This is a horrible comparison. It’s easy to understand the motivations of both the women and the men involved. It is not so easy to excuse their actions, male OR female. What you have here is the ability of wealthier people to whitewash their crimes. To the extent that prostitution is a crime, this is just a way for people with money to maintain a facade of respectability… Read more »
Hugo, so what’s your take on my ex-girlfriend? We were of a similar age group, met through mutual college friends and bonded through mutual interests. Half way through our relationship she convinced me to move to a large city with her. My friends advised me to do it, it made sense, and this girl seemed like quite a catch. But things changed. My salary mushroomed, hers shrunk. She started demanding $500 bags, Prada, Coach, Ralph Lauren Black Label, and one day she just asked me to give her my credit card. I told her I loved her but this made… Read more »
Hugo,
Again, you write a post making women sound like helpless prey…come on really? I know young women and they know exactly what they’re doing. I’m starting to wonder why the GMP is posting this stuff.
Duke
Nicely said April.
There need be a level of coercion, not persuasion, to subject this sort of thing to societal moral scrutiny. It can’t be solely about power, or money, or excessive age gap. These things may be present, but are not sufficient without intent to coerce. Otherwise, as April says, it can be just another one of many experiences. My biggest gap has been 15 years, definitely not rich, but an “artist” – mostly unemployed. I regret buying some of his junk, but that’s about it.
I’m torn on this. First, it’s pretty clear that, generally speaking, most of these young women wouldn’t consider dating much older men (I’m talking 15-30+ years her senior, not just a few years) without the financial incentive. The men, on the other hand, are not in it for a financial incentive; they’re in it because they have wanted a younger women to show off or have sex with for a long time, regardless of any benefit he may get, but haven’t been able to without the monetary commitment, because there aren’t many super-young women willing to do that. For the… Read more »
Very well put, April. I would disagree a little with the first paragraph about what the older men get out of it. The relationship could be about having a trophy, having sex with a young woman, but it could also be about recapturing youth, recapturing the feeling of falling in love, getting a good feeling from being in a “mentor” role (using the term extremely loosely), or any number of other motivations. I don’t know if you’re thinking this, but I’ve noticed in several posts the apparent assumption that if there’s a wide age range then the motives are clearly… Read more »
I don’t agree that this phenomenon is clearly entirely sex work. It wouldn’t interest people so much if that was the obvious case. Instead it’s more mixed and nuanced than that. Most of the time these relationships, that get called sugar daddy ones, are sexually exclusive. When they’re not really but she pretends it is, then yes it’s more entirely sex work and she’s also being fraudulent. But that’s not the side of this these articles have focused on and called sugar daddy relationships. Many, certainly not most, but many college age girls are attracted to rich older men who… Read more »
I don’t know how you couldn’t consider exchanging sex for money sex work. It doesn’t have to occur in a sleazy club or motel room to qualify.
I’m sure that the most common version of this scenario is with a much older man, but is the age difference really a decisive part of this discussion? If a woman pays for college by being involved with this type of relationship with a man near her own age, is that equally bad or is that okay? Presumably using a 25 year old for his money is much more age appropriate. I don’t have a problem with this sort of relationship in itself, as long as the relationship is honest and consensual. Such a relationship could be exploitative, maybe even… Read more »
As usual, I have an issue with the (rather postmodern) use of the word “power”- without details as to what power is. (Max Weber said it was the capacity to get someone to do something despite their resistance. That probably doesn’t fit here.) I think that an older man clawing at a younger woman in public might run the risk of looking a little silly. I took a 40 year old women on a museum date once and saw a man about my age glaring at me. She and I have a 26 year age difference. I look a lot… Read more »
Honestly, I prefer to write essays and get scholarships and grants to pay tuition.
Both parties mentioned are consenting adults. In our culture having money and having an attractive younger woman = status. These women are not making the choices that I would make, but they are not stupid. They may regret it one day, but who does not regret some of the things they did in college?
Who is to say that this type of social transaction is any more wrong than the next?
Y’all are missing the analogy. Saying that young women have erotic capital that give them equality with sugar daddies is like saying that inner-city athletes have “athletic capital” which they then use to exploit the universities that put them on scholarship. But we don’t talk about black athletes taking predominantly white administrations in the Big Ten for a ride. We talk about a culture of exploitation of black male athletes, and rightly so. That’s the right analogy. Sex appeal, like athletic ability, is fleeting, and those who buy it are invariably quick to dispose of those who no longer have… Read more »
Beautiful explanation, Hugo. You nailed it.
No, *you* talk about colleges taking these black athletes for a ride. You ignore that these people – black athletes and young women – have agency and choose among a menu of options. Black athletes and prostitutes *could* take other jobs or career paths if they wanted, but they are aiming for a better paying alternative.
These young women, could they not be waitresses even if they can’t work in their field? I have $40k in debt and work as a waiter. If I decided to sell drugs that would certainly be my own choice.
For women, youth and looks are power. Money less so, and age definately not. These women have power and they are exploiting it.
When I was working my way through university, I considered doing this sort of thing to help pay my tuition. I had rationalized it with the old, ‘it’s only sex’ idea, and was nearly ready to trade my body for my books. I can honestly say now that I’m so glad I didn’t go through with it. I made it through university on my own merit, and that’s something I’m proud of. I can be honest about my past, wherein I believe that had I chosen a Sugar Daddy, I would be ashamed to admit it. One final thought: the… Read more »
I had friends in college who set up relationships of this nature to pay their bills. I didn’t approve of the arrangement but who am I to intervene. I will say this. There was never any intention to love the old men coming from these girls. They would pet and rub them like a lucky rabbits foot while they were around. When they weren’t, they were embarrassed by the age of their lover. Many made it publicly known the old guy would be dumped once the financial situation changed. So don’t ever expect your young object to love you back.… Read more »