Blackness and Black Identity in Canada Today

The Dr. Vibe Show™: Black Canada Talking™ – February 28, 2021

Black Canada Talking™ is a live online event that provides Black Canadians the opportunity to give their takes and POVs on stories that are of importance to them. On the February 28, 2021 edition of Black Canada Talking™, the guests were: El Jones and Cesar Ndema-Moussa.

During the conversation, the panelists talked about Black History Month 2021 and Blackness/Black identity in Canada today.

Are you Black enough to get grant money, or is your blackness judged by a white panel?

El Jones asserted: We know who’s black; we know who’s in our community; we know who does the work; we know who’s good. We need that power to distribute resources.

Cesar Ndema-Moussa elaborated:

It creates constant competition among the few Blacks [who] can get to the door being open and by default, it creates a situation where those will get to have a seat at the table . . . Too often . . . they have to wear a mask or they have to cooperate with the system in order to keep the place at the table. It’s very dangerous it’s very toxic.

Watch the full conversation on YouTube

Listen to the audio-only version

You can contact El Jones via: [email protected] You can contact Cesar Ndema-Moussa via: https://www.facebook.com/cesarrimyemery

Transcript provided by YouTube (unedited):

[Music]
00:35
[Music]
00:46
[Music]
01:20
what is up everybody it’s dr
01:22
vibe host and producer of the award
01:23
winning doctor vibe show
01:25
the home of epic conversations i’m the
01:27
host of epic conversations
01:29
2020 and 2018 award-winning
01:32
recipient from the canadian ethnic media
01:34
association 2020 for best podcast
01:37
news broadcast and 2018 for the
01:39
innovation award
01:40
and also once a month i host the only
01:42
online broadcast
01:44
in the world that is sponsored by dove
01:47
men care which is for fathers
01:49
and dads and it’s also co-sponsored by
01:52
dad central canada’s national fathered
01:53
organization
01:54
one more thing to slip in here i’m also
01:56
the board chair for an organization
01:58
called the global food and drink
01:59
initiative
02:00
and that is a multimedia not-for-profit
02:02
organization
02:03
that showcases blacks around the world
02:06
in the diaspora
02:07
that are doing stuff in food wine and
02:08
travel as always like to say you’re
02:10
blessed highly favored a magnet for
02:12
miracles and a solution for someone’s
02:13
problem
02:14
it’s the last sunday of black history
02:17
month
02:18
and just because it is well we do it
02:20
anyways but especially because it is
02:22
we holds our round table with l jones
02:24
and cesar so let’s bring them into the
02:27
stage
02:28
there’s elle hello there
02:31
what is up what’s going on family these
02:34
are all the end of black history month
02:43
and l how was your black history month
02:45
busy i mean
02:46
really really busy um which is always
02:49
good
02:50
you know like you’d rather be doing
02:51
stuff than not but yeah it’s been quite
02:53
intense
02:54
um i’m trying to think of these
02:54
highlights i mean it’s always a
02:55
highlight when young people are really
02:58
out here doing their thing so i have
03:00
actually a young mentee who i’m going to
03:01
brag up
03:02
dimini aogia um and so this black
03:05
history month her poem is actually
03:06
featured on cbc
03:08
she’s an amazing young poet that like
03:10
really talks about our history and
03:12
empowering black girls and women and
03:13
like it’s 13 years old and is really out
03:15
here doing her thing and she really got
03:16
to come into her own
03:18
this black history month so you know as
03:20
like uh auntie
03:21
you know i’m just proud to see that so
03:23
those are the highlights of black
03:24
history month when i think our youth are
03:25
out here
03:26
um but other than that it’s like the
03:28
grind like just busy busy busy
03:30
yeah well you know we’ll get to in the
03:33
later latter part of our conversation it
03:34
will get to black history month but
03:36
cesar
03:36
how is black history month 2021 been for
03:39
you
03:41
brother vibe sister l bia media
03:45
black people worldwide always a pleasure
03:47
to be with you
03:48
let me make sure you see the beautiful
03:49
painting behind me
03:51
properly centered here we are ah
03:54
black history month has been very busy
03:56
very busy
03:57
and uh before i talk about how busy has
04:00
been
04:00
i want to thank all the people who have
04:03
supported me
04:04
all the opportunities all the
04:07
you know the support direct indirect and
04:10
people
04:10
really seeking more and more knowledge
04:14
but also
04:15
insight awareness of situations and
04:18
um you know since last year
04:21
uh anything related to blackness has
04:23
taken on a new scope
04:25
uh let us hope it’s not temporary not to
04:27
be to the covit situation and you know
04:30
all the issues that we’re talking about
04:32
but it’s been
04:33
an amazing black history month as uh
04:36
we are reaching out we me you
04:40
sister l everybody involved in terms of
04:43
uh standing up for our people and of
04:46
course uh
04:46
all the issues that relate to our people
04:49
so yeah
04:50
usually we are coming with our other
04:52
with our end-of-month conversations by
04:54
warren clark but warren clark needs a
04:56
break
04:57
he has been going like there’s an old
04:59
song by jackson brown called running on
05:01
empty
05:02
so we’re giving him a break this one
05:04
because he’s been going going going so
05:06
we like to say thanks to ellen cesar
05:08
for being here because it’s been busy
05:10
for them too but we’re going to start
05:12
off with uh
05:13
the noise is on my end and it’s actually
05:15
my partner cooking
05:16
but he has an earphones in so he can’t
05:19
hear me telling him that he’s loud
05:23
he says i thought it was coming from you
05:25
so please
05:26
don’t sweat the technique all right
05:28
that’s all good
05:30
so good black man in the house here so
05:32
we don’t want to critique him he’s
05:34
making
05:34
food maybe we can feature him in the
05:37
global food and drink initiative i’m
05:39
telling you all right
05:40
he has a farm in jamaica and they are
05:43
actually
05:44
creating um like cooperative farming in
05:46
jamaica that will connect to farming
05:48
here and being able to bring people
05:50
products from jamaica and it’s all done
05:51
in land so yeah
05:53
we will have to have to talk offline on
05:55
that that’s good stuff
05:57
we’re not going to talk about black
05:58
history month first but we’re going to
06:00
talk about
06:01
the whole there’s been a lot of stuff
06:03
going on
06:04
politically in canada like there always
06:06
is but a lot of stuff involving black
06:08
canadians
06:10
and politics we are not going to be
06:12
specific but we’re going to have some
06:13
just
06:14
comments on stuff because
06:18
like l and cesar are more plugged than i
06:21
am because my
06:22
i can’t take it anymore because like i
06:25
i hear stuff and i’m just going i’m
06:27
shaking my head
06:29
so who wants to kick off the
06:30
conversation i’ll certainly come in and
06:32
supplant but i don’t know where to start
06:34
so who’s gonna who’s gonna kick it off
06:36
well i’ll start with this sentence and
06:38
says r can fill it out but one of the
06:39
things i know that a lot of people in
06:41
the community were shaking their heads
06:42
over was obviously these funding letters
06:44
that went out
06:45
to organizations saying that people
06:47
weren’t black enough so i assume we’re
06:49
starting there as one of the head
06:51
shakers where perhaps these are you
06:52
might be better placed to give us
06:54
a bit more of a background on that whole
06:57
formula yeah well certainly that and
07:00
there’s a part two of that
07:01
that that happened but scissor covered
07:04
it a little bit last month
07:05
but cesar do you wanna fill in then i
07:08
i’m gonna give
07:08
as much as i know about the part two
07:10
that just happened last week
07:12
uh i don’t want to add too much first of
07:15
all because um
07:16
it’s so ridiculous and it’s to me
07:19
reminder of the place that
07:21
as black people despite all the uh
07:25
the talks about systemic racism and of
07:27
course it depends because if you are in
07:29
quebec
07:29
there’s still the denial going on uh
07:32
but despite all of that uh you know the
07:35
claims of computer glitches
07:38
itself it’s an insult to our blackness
07:41
that we have a very hard time imagining
07:43
on other communities
07:44
aka you’re not jewish enough you know
07:47
chinese enough
07:48
you lgbtq enough to get this funding to
07:51
which you apply
07:53
which is geared towards your very
07:56
identity
07:58
i think it has to be a reminder for us
08:01
to
08:01
always keep being involved and to
08:04
remember the fubu logic
08:05
for us by us i think there’s also sorry
08:09
i didn’t
08:10
think about survive but i think it also
08:11
raises a kind of question as you move
08:13
forward so
08:14
in my field obviously we just have a
08:16
bunch of cohort hires and black people
08:18
are applying for academic jobs and
08:19
in some of them they ask for your
08:21
self-identity right that you have to
08:22
write about
08:23
people opposed to that like why do i
08:25
have to tell you about my blackness
08:27
so this is i guess also a broader
08:29
question of
08:30
what does it mean as like that our
08:32
identity comes under the state in
08:34
particular ways so if we say we want
08:35
black people to have resources
08:37
then they’re like now we need to police
08:39
your blackness to give you those
08:40
resources which is obviously messed up
08:42
and people are responding to
08:43
but then i also question um and this is
08:46
i guess
08:46
where the objection to us dealing with
08:49
the government comes right like it’s a
08:51
better model that we create community
08:53
funds because then we know who’s in our
08:54
community
08:55
and it’s not somebody that’s not our
08:56
community judging us so i guess
08:58
counter to this is something like the
09:00
black lives matter fund we had in nova
09:01
scotia where over
09:02
300 000 was donated to our community and
09:05
we were able to give that out across the
09:07
province to black people in a communal
09:09
way right like
09:09
the communities decided what happened to
09:11
it and that’s a much better model that
09:13
you know we’ve been really proud to be
09:14
able to do in nova scotia from this
09:16
money
09:16
but when the government is in charge of
09:18
it then they start being like check this
09:20
box
09:20
tell us your black how black are you how
09:22
many people are on your board like
09:23
what do you have to do send in pictures
09:25
of people like you know what i mean
09:27
so it also shows the problem of
09:30
you know when we get these crumbs from
09:31
government because it’s never much money
09:33
it’s like 25 million or 21 million or
09:35
100 none of it
09:37
is it’s a dent or a drop in the bucket
09:39
compared to what we’ve put into this
09:40
country
09:41
you know compared to what’s been
09:42
stripped from us historically from our
09:44
labor compared to the reparations we’re
09:46
owed right none of this
09:47
is even you know in the like like you
09:50
know the vast it’s like you know the
09:52
football field is what we’re owed this
09:53
is like a blade of the top of the grass
09:56
on the football field that we’ve been
09:57
given and look what we’re put through to
09:59
get even that
10:00
so to me it really shows something about
10:03
you know um
10:04
the government’s never like beyond
10:05
judging our identity it’s like they can
10:06
never give us the resources we want and
10:08
they never will that we
10:09
are old because they never believe for
10:11
odin they always believe we have to earn
10:13
it somehow sarah young
10:14
from ottawa that funding is provided by
10:16
taxpayers some of whom are blocked
10:18
why should we beg for our money luckily
10:20
like this is our money
10:22
like you know why should we have to show
10:24
pictures of ourselves or account for how
10:26
many people on this and that or
10:28
write about our identity so that we can
10:30
get this like
10:31
it’s a policing of blackness it’s
10:33
another form of surveillance
10:34
but of course every time black people
10:36
are involved in the state they’re always
10:37
surveying us or policing us or judging
10:39
us in some way
10:40
and so i also think it’s a kind of
10:43
message to us that we need to really be
10:45
able to build in our own communities the
10:47
resources
10:48
so that we know who’s black we know
10:49
who’s in our community we know who does
10:50
the work we know who’s good
10:52
and we need that power to distribute
10:54
resources not with like
10:56
some department coming in right so so
10:58
i’m gonna i’m gonna step in here for a
11:00
few moments because this sort of
11:01
it’s like a little journey for me
11:03
because number of years ago
11:05
i thought the whole funding piece
11:07
getting grants all that
11:09
i thought it was a mess i just why do we
11:11
even have it
11:12
but then someone told me well you pay
11:14
taxes so you should ask
11:16
access to it great but what you what
11:19
many of our blacks have to do to get
11:22
that funding if and that
11:26
and then over the last few years the 221
11:30
million dollars
11:31
hasn’t shown up yet the 20 i don’t even
11:34
know if the 25 million dollars
11:37
has even shown up yet now people please
11:39
correct me and get me up to date
11:41
because my mind is a mess when it comes
11:42
all this stuff and then
11:44
we talked about this whole computer
11:46
glitch stuff and then
11:48
last week and i’m gonna be missing out
11:50
on some facts and details but basically
11:53
there was supposed to be another funding
11:54
announcement
11:56
everyone’s there basically
11:59
like digital horses at the trough
12:02
that’s where i’m gonna put it right
12:06
what i was told by one of the people
12:08
that was expecting that was on the call
12:10
a message went out thank you very much
12:12
for applying
12:13
and we will tell you we will send by
12:17
email the next day the people who are
12:21
going to
12:21
who have received they broke down how
12:24
many organizations received in each
12:26
geographic
12:27
area in canada so i’m gonna say
12:32
i don’t think more than twenty percent
12:34
from what i’ve been told the applicants
12:35
is gonna get money
12:37
the thing that really blew my mind from
12:39
the person who told me this
12:40
who did apply is in ells area
12:44
atlantic canada only
12:47
four black organizations qualified
12:51
i’m going for
12:55
i said and from what i heard
12:58
the twittersphere was a balloon blown up
13:01
after this happened
13:03
and i don’t and i don’t know anyone
13:04
who’s received yet i do not know
13:06
anyone who’s received yet i would like
13:09
to say
13:10
that the funding system is an absolute
13:13
mess and you see how it pits us against
13:15
each other as well because then
13:16
everyone’s like
13:17
who got the money why did you get the
13:18
money why didn’t i get the money
13:20
and then fighting with each other as
13:22
though white people don’t get 99.99
13:24
and any percent of all resources and
13:25
money but now we have to compete over
13:29
0.0001
13:30
against each other and be mad at each
13:32
other because how come you got and
13:34
what’s your application right so
13:35
it’s this idea of this scarcity that
13:37
black people are supposed to then
13:39
compete against other black people um
13:42
and then like white people are off doing
13:43
their own thing right so it causes
13:45
friction amongst us too because then
13:46
like
13:47
who got money why did you get money and
13:48
i didn’t get money how come you know
13:49
like i didn’t even know to apply
13:51
like how are you judging this who set
13:53
this criteria like it’s
13:54
it destroys our communities it’s it’s
13:56
been going on for generations in our
13:58
communities it’s very violent
13:59
our communities end up relating to each
14:01
other i wanna
14:03
go ahead sister uh just to add uh
14:06
to what sister l is saying the very
14:09
danger of the nature of the system
14:12
a system built on white supremacy a
14:15
capitalist
14:16
system which of course
14:19
capitalism is born from mercantilism aka
14:22
the slave trade of blacks
14:24
uh by western christians it basically
14:26
makes
14:27
very truthful the very illogical reality
14:32
of crabs in the barrel
14:33
where crabs aka blacks should not even
14:36
be in the barrel
14:37
at first now at the same time he’s
14:40
saying that
14:40
we must always address our very sense of
14:43
community
14:44
are organizing our sense of unity our
14:47
sense of
14:48
coming together as blacks to stand up
14:51
all together
14:52
instead of fighting uh in terms of
14:55
getting closer proximity
14:57
to whiteness and as such to have crumbs
15:01
i think it goes back the conversations
15:03
that we’re having today go back to
15:05
uh an ideological debate
15:08
when i say debate it’s not so much a
15:10
versus debate
15:11
but martin luther king and malcolm x in
15:14
terms of the nature of integration where
15:16
ultimately the very danger becoming
15:20
not so much those uh openly
15:23
overt racist white but the average
15:26
white person who basically becomes quite
15:30
comfortable with the statue
15:32
and assemblies of liberty
15:35
freedom and opportunities to blacks but
15:37
then it creates constant competition
15:40
among the few blacks will even get
15:43
can get to the door being open and by
15:46
default
15:46
it creates a situation where those will
15:48
get to have a seat at the table
15:50
too often i’m not saying all of them i
15:52
don’t want anyone to feel offended
15:54
but too often feel like they have to
15:56
wear a mask
15:57
or they have to cooperate with the
15:59
system
16:00
in order to keep the place at the table
16:03
it’s very dangerous it’s very toxic
16:05
and you know we should never content
16:08
ourselves with a few
16:10
millions when others get billions
16:13
i’m not saying that they don’t deserve
16:14
to get the billions that they get i’m
16:16
not saying that
16:17
when we look at the fate of uh
16:19
indigenous people in canada they deserve
16:21
even more than billions
16:22
but i’m saying we should never contend
16:24
ourselves with a few
16:26
millions that we’re getting under
16:28
conditions that are notably not
16:30
established
16:31
by us and under a control which is not
16:34
by us i i spent
16:38
most of last year hosting
16:41
or being part of sessions with
16:45
many black not-for-profit organizations
16:49
in this country and
16:53
i’m gonna i and uh people may come at me
16:55
for this but we gotta get our act
16:57
together
16:57
folks i’m being very serious many
17:01
there are a number of organizations out
17:02
there that are playing
17:04
checkers when we need to be playing
17:06
chess
17:08
and i’m going to be honest here and
17:09
people can come back there’s a number of
17:11
organizations out there
17:13
shouldn’t be in existence sorry
17:16
i saw i i because they’re just
17:20
they’re not being right and also another
17:22
thing that needs to happen
17:24
so don’t worry al i’m taking it for you
17:27
today
17:28
some of the leadership needs to go
17:32
well i think we also have a mentality
17:34
like a scarcity mentality from when we
17:36
didn’t have a lot of support for black
17:38
people right so
17:39
and i’m pretty successful like in quotes
17:41
because we’ve always had six
17:42
or black people are successful that
17:44
we’ve survived it’s successful that we
17:45
have children and
17:46
our families it’s successful that we
17:48
live in our communities but under you
17:49
know white
17:50
we weren’t allowed to go to university
17:52
so we had you know like one preacher
17:53
one teacher or one lawyer or whatever
17:56
and i think
17:57
that we’ve been taught to expect very
17:59
little
18:00
um so when it comes to organizations i’m
18:03
not calling out or naming names here
18:05
i’m saying that we haven’t historically
18:08
accustomed ourselves to practices of
18:10
transparency and accountability and
18:12
collectivity
18:13
and working together yeah because the
18:15
government has dealt with us by
18:16
splitting us up and saying
18:17
only these 20 people get to come in the
18:19
room only these 10 people get to consult
18:22
and we need to push back on that and say
18:23
it’s all of us or none of us everybody
18:25
in the room or nobody
18:26
like everybody has the information
18:28
everybody gets reached out because
18:29
that’s how we stay solid and how they
18:31
divide us
18:31
is they say you but not you you can come
18:34
into the meeting but not you
18:35
you could have money but not you and
18:37
then people go well now my paycheck
18:38
depends upon me
18:39
going in that you know so it is a long
18:42
practicing by the government they always
18:44
put in
18:45
people and i’m not saying most people
18:47
even have bad intentions i’m saying this
18:48
is what white supremacy does i mean i
18:50
don’t mean the black people have bad
18:51
intentions
18:52
i mean the white people do i think that
18:54
you know then we get caught up we have
18:56
to pay our bills i our money depends on
18:57
this if i
18:58
if i do something against the government
18:59
i can’t get it and they put us in those
19:01
positions
19:02
and one of the things that happens is
19:03
there’s no no accountability and
19:04
transparency like
19:05
what is the money doing and the
19:06
government doesn’t want to tell you that
19:08
they will never tell you
19:09
what we made a decision on and then
19:11
people feel like i need to keep it
19:13
secret and there’s a lot of secret
19:14
keeping
19:15
and i think that that is is really
19:17
damaging to our community
19:18
right and it’s a practice we’re going to
19:20
have to learn to do differently
19:22
and it’s hard i understand that and i’m
19:24
not blaming us because i’m never
19:25
ultimately blaming
19:27
us we react in for survival in a society
19:30
that doesn’t want us to survive
19:31
and we always are trying to run ahead of
19:33
something that’s always trying to pull
19:35
us back you know
19:36
but yeah i think um they they
19:39
deliberately they want organizations
19:40
because they don’t want people
19:41
they don’t want masses of us in the
19:43
streets right go ahead cesar
19:47
you’re right fact okay there you go
19:50
if you look at the very fact of uh the
19:53
very nature of the system
19:55
by default the institutions of the
19:57
system of oppression
19:59
are and remain oppressive towards those
20:01
who are not part of the dominant group
20:03
so if you look at the very roman
20:07
maxim or maybe i should say mantra in
20:10
terms of
20:10
divide to conquer right away comes
20:13
divide to rule and by default
20:16
eventually what you end up having and
20:19
allow me to uh mention uh
20:21
sister sarah and yango the scarcity
20:23
mentality is a barrier to our progress
20:25
for real we must do better
20:27
she’s absolutely right eventually not
20:30
even eventually we don’t have to wait
20:32
this has been
20:33
the proof for decades and centuries
20:36
our liberation from slavery came from
20:38
our fighting
20:40
our liberation from colonization came
20:41
from our fighting our liberation from
20:43
neocolonialism which is ongoing
20:46
will only come from a fighting just as
20:48
our liberation from systemic racism
20:50
will only come from a fighting all the
20:53
talks of allies ship white allies and
20:56
you know which government comes in power
20:58
that’s extremely relative anything that
21:01
can help can
21:02
is great the problem is that if we
21:04
contain ourselves with just
21:05
anything uh accepting the little
21:09
we ourselves trap ourselves especially
21:12
we trap our children
21:13
in a mentality of lowering expectations
21:16
which notably
21:18
is reflected in terms of lower standards
21:21
notably because
21:22
we have constant in fighting for a small
21:26
place at the spotlight at the spotlight
21:29
where
21:30
basically it becomes so conditioned to
21:32
you can’t say this you can do do
21:34
you can’t do this you must look this way
21:37
i mean it’s like i tell people all the
21:38
time it’s not
21:39
accidental that i make sure that i come
21:41
with a strong
21:42
uh african look and a strong
21:44
pan-africanist ideology to show
21:47
to our brothers and sisters and not to
21:49
be youth in high schools
21:50
yes you can do it with while being
21:53
unapologetically black because
21:56
that when you understand that you also
21:58
understand the sense
21:59
of unity you also understand the
22:02
importance of collectivity
22:04
of coming together to change the
22:06
narratives
22:07
within us we can do it with us
22:10
with one another we must do it like i
22:13
agree
22:13
and i’m gonna i’m gonna hail up ryan
22:16
o’neil knight here
22:17
so those people who don’t know him he’s
22:19
the head of he’s a co-founder of an
22:21
organization called the african
22:22
caribbean business network so
22:26
a while back the government promises 221
22:29
million dollars
22:30
for business and all this stuff which
22:33
has not happened yet
22:36
so he and a group of people form this
22:38
organization
22:39
and they said you know what businesses a
22:42
lot of our businesses out there don’t
22:43
need
22:44
hundreds and thousands of dollars to get
22:47
them over to the next level
22:48
so what they did is listen to the word
22:51
they’ve partnered and collaborated
22:53
and i’m not getting sponsored by them
22:55
i’ll turn a savings
22:57
to develop community micro loans
23:00
anywhere from five hundred to twenty
23:02
five thousand dollars
23:06
and the hcbn provides you the help
23:10
provides the help of the paperwork all
23:12
the stuff you need to get that stuff
23:14
done
23:15
we as a black people we can’t just look
23:18
at one way of getting things we have to
23:20
collaborate together
23:21
we have to find our allies out there
23:23
because every day we don’t do it
23:27
we fall further behind
23:30
the government hasn’t given this money
23:32
and then people are looking to get money
23:34
from the government who are running the
23:35
non-profit organizations
23:37
what are you going to do if you don’t
23:38
get the money
23:42
right what are you going to do how are
23:45
you going to
23:46
how you going to survive we have to
23:49
collaborate collaborate collaborate
23:52
let’s get our egos out of the way and
23:55
realize at the end of the day we want to
23:57
serve
23:58
that black man that black woman that
24:00
black child in the street
24:02
because if at our level if we don’t get
24:04
it right
24:05
we should be hurting that we’re
24:07
affecting people
24:09
lives and our future collaborate
24:12
folks and there’s one that more than one
24:15
way there’s a number of foundations out
24:17
there that you can apply
24:18
and get money from don’t look at the
24:20
government
24:21
there’s more than one alternative there
24:23
are foundations out there that are
24:25
offering money
24:27
if you don’t know any any of them hit up
24:30
people like me
24:30
hit up people like l hit up people like
24:33
cesar hit up people like warren clark
24:35
if we don’t know we know people that can
24:36
give you that answer
24:39
because we don’t want as my friend d
24:42
chance and barry said i that well we’re
24:45
not in the united that’s another
24:46
conversation a minute
24:47
but i want black people to start
24:51
stop surviving and start living
24:55
we need to start living we’re too much
24:57
in a survival mode
24:59
it’s like when i was younger there was a
25:00
cartoon bugs bunny in the road runner
25:04
and the road were like with a road
25:05
runner on the cliff he always had his
25:07
like fingernails like on the side of the
25:09
cliff and most of the times he fell down
25:11
into the gully
25:12
we can’t do that we gotta collaborate
25:14
get ourselves up
25:15
and get into the race i’m complete
25:18
okay so it’s black history month this
25:20
book is sitting on my table i’ve been
25:22
recommending this book to everybody for
25:24
years rocky jones is like
25:26
this is backwards so it’s hard right
25:28
there that’s right there it’s good
25:29
burnley rocky jones revolutionary
25:31
firmward press and i mean one of the
25:33
things he talks about in this book this
25:34
is the great rocky jones from nova
25:36
scotia
25:36
one reason i love this book is rocky’s
25:39
talking about these issues in this book
25:40
that have been going on he’s talking
25:41
about like the 70s the 80s
25:44
it’s been going on for longer than that
25:46
no so like when rocky’s organizing in
25:48
the 60s he saw and then they formed
25:50
black united front and immediately the
25:51
government started infiltrating black
25:53
united front
25:54
and like dividing people up and giving
25:56
some people money and
25:57
calling some people same it’s all sarah
25:59
just dropped the knowledge bob
26:01
you guys know that about this yes with
26:04
the election coming up there’s no
26:05
guarantee that money will be paid out
26:07
i yeah i actually asked this i the one
26:09
time i was invited to like some kind of
26:10
federal government meeting
26:12
the first thing i said to them was but
26:13
what if you lose the election are we
26:15
still gonna get this money and the room
26:16
got like
26:16
real quiet you should have recorded that
26:21
like like it got real quiet
26:25
sorry please go ahead go ahead no i was
26:28
going to say
26:29
it’s it’s not just that i mean when we
26:31
look at the very way
26:33
the system is built the system is built
26:36
with much
26:37
craft and decades such centuries
26:40
of knowledge in terms of those who are
26:43
dominant to remain dominant
26:45
a lot of black people like to think that
26:48
like demographic
26:49
changes will affect white supremacy when
26:53
it’s not exactly that it’s the mentality
26:55
where you can have
26:56
even if those uh who are in power
27:00
uh i’m not saying talking about the
27:02
average white person i’m talking about
27:04
those white supremacists in power even
27:06
if they are
27:07
statistically a minority they can keep
27:09
control
27:10
they can keep power notably because they
27:12
can keep control of those
27:14
what could replace them even with a
27:16
darker face
27:18
what we also must do when we talk about
27:21
that is that
27:21
understanding that the very issues that
27:24
we are talking about
27:26
we have to live in the system in terms
27:29
of
27:30
canada its laws uh institutions
27:34
but we don’t have to live by survival in
27:38
a
27:38
system by contributing by
27:41
com becoming complicit to the oppressive
27:44
nature of the system towards us
27:46
i like to sometimes remember black
27:48
people that we don’t see
27:50
jewish people we don’t see chinese
27:52
people
27:53
protesting for the dignity of their
27:55
lives that should be
27:58
very much telling us of something and
28:00
that’s something
28:01
allow me to bring uh some of the words
28:04
of
28:05
our uh our brother uh malcolm x
28:08
in talking about the black men and women
28:12
in the americas will never be respected
28:15
as long as africa is not respected
28:17
and africa will never be respected as
28:20
long as
28:21
black people worldwide are not respected
28:23
we are all interconnected
28:25
we can divide ourselves country
28:28
usually created by whites religions
28:31
whites and arabs
28:32
uh political affiliations which is
28:36
really a waste as we’re gonna talk about
28:38
we can divide ourselves in so many
28:40
different ways
28:42
but from the americas to china australia
28:45
to russia
28:46
in europe we are seen first and foremost
28:48
as one thing
28:49
as black people we aren’t
28:53
from the dark skinned midnight brother
28:56
and sister
28:57
to the mixed person with green eyes and
28:59
blonde hair
29:00
who may be white passing until they’re
29:02
like hey you black
29:05
maybe maybe there’s a new twitter
29:07
campaign or a social media campaign we
29:09
should go
29:10
hashtag cut the check cut the check and
29:12
then yeah so people
29:14
in canada if you didn’t know yes an
29:16
election is coming
29:17
i’ve known for the last few weeks so my
29:20
question is
29:22
what are you gonna do with this election
29:24
are you gonna
29:25
are you gonna hold your representatives
29:27
accountable and let’s talk about how
29:29
last election despite certain promises i
29:32
mean who
29:33
do we even like beyond even bigger
29:34
political issues who do we have in
29:36
cabinet
29:37
one black person like
29:40
and that’s like besides before we get
29:43
into any of the philosophical stuff
29:45
just on that which isn’t even like
29:46
that’s a small issue but
29:48
um do black people get rewards for their
29:51
loyalty in this government to black
29:53
people who have served multiple terms
29:55
and should be by any measure in serious
29:57
positions how come
29:58
we see them being rejected and not
30:00
getting what
30:01
white politicians get when they’re loyal
30:03
to this government and serve them and go
30:05
out for them
30:05
welcome black people are like literally
30:09
thrown out there whenever there’s a
30:10
black kiss you get out there talk to a
30:11
community and then what do you get back
30:13
they don’t even reward their own people
30:14
never mind us and never mind like
30:17
poor black people living you know in
30:18
prison or facing deportations or
30:21
living in shelters or like never mind
30:24
them right
30:24
so yeah what are we going to ask that’s
30:26
a really important question like
30:28
when are we going to stop like when they
30:29
throw us like you know 20 million
30:31
dollars and then they’ll like vote for
30:32
us like
30:34
you know and i really briefly want to
30:35
talk about the justice bill bill c-22
30:37
which came out a couple of weeks ago
30:40
um which they claimed would address
30:41
systemic racism um
30:43
we have been asking for a full abolition
30:45
of minimum sentences because we are
30:46
unconstitutional and they largely affect
30:48
black people a lot of the minimums they
30:50
have in are things like gun minimums
30:51
that are directed directly at black men
30:54
um one of the reasons why they didn’t
30:55
abolish minimum is they said well we
30:56
need to address gang violence like what
30:58
do you think that means
30:59
so even bill where they’re talking about
31:01
we’re gonna we’re making this move to
31:03
fix systemic racism
31:05
like but don’t worry black people aren’t
31:07
going to get away with stuff we’re going
31:08
to keep in minimum so we can put
31:09
them in prison uh they decrimed a simple
31:12
possession for drugs
31:14
but not decriminalized drugs as a whole
31:16
and they left um prosecutorial
31:18
and police uh charging in place so the
31:20
cops have all the discretion they want
31:22
to
31:22
charge us however they want and they
31:23
think that that’s going to help us
31:26
so what i’m saying is i could get into a
31:28
whole thing on build c22 and i won’t get
31:30
into the whole thing
31:30
but something that’s being sold to us as
31:33
reform that falls
31:34
far short of what we’ve been asking for
31:36
like abolish
31:37
mandatory minimums full
31:38
decriminalization of drug use it’s a
31:40
medical issue
31:41
we can’t even get that and then they
31:43
tell us that that’s addressing systemic
31:44
racism when they leave
31:46
everything in place that makes us face
31:48
racism
31:49
in the course including for example like
31:51
still if you still criminalize drug use
31:53
if you ask for fines black people can’t
31:54
pay those fines
31:55
if you demand treatment people can’t
31:57
necessarily get into treatment what beds
31:59
in treatment
32:00
what treatment that’s culturally
32:01
sensitive we don’t have that treatment
32:03
you know like what happens when you’re
32:04
waiting six weeks or two months to get
32:06
into treatment
32:07
and in that time you’re living on
32:08
someone’s couch because you don’t have
32:09
housing and they use drugs what happens
32:11
to you then
32:12
what happens if you breach and then
32:14
they’re like oh well like we gave you a
32:16
chance
32:16
so like i’m just saying that’s one issue
32:19
that they’re trying to sort of sell to
32:20
us as
32:21
we listen to you on justice you guys
32:22
went out in the streets all summer
32:25
and we’re listening to you and they
32:26
didn’t listen to us at all because that
32:28
bill doesn’t do anything that we need or
32:30
want or just like small but not
32:31
at all to the state that we need it so
32:35
i just say that that’s a segue but i
32:37
know a lot of cesar you
32:38
you want to talk we also had another
32:40
issue that you wanted to bring up about
32:42
uh different political sides so i i do
32:45
honestly get into that
32:47
i i’d just like to add uh just what you
32:49
was
32:50
you were saying uh in terms of
32:52
addressing systemic racism in the
32:54
justice system
32:56
let us never forget how the opioid
32:58
crisis
33:00
was treated as a medical issue versus
33:03
crack in the u.s marijuana in canada the
33:06
u.s all the way down to brazil
33:08
treated as a criminal issue and we know
33:11
who
33:11
most likely gets to go to the hospital
33:14
for the
33:15
substance abuse problem versus who most
33:18
likely is going to go to jail for the
33:21
substance abuse
33:22
issue which not only fed an entire
33:25
industry
33:26
beyond the prison industrial complex but
33:29
also
33:30
employment notably to majority whites
33:34
it’s uncomfortable but it must be said
33:37
and
33:38
when we look at the covet situation the
33:40
pandemic the disproportionate infection
33:42
rates
33:43
we look at the social determinants of
33:45
health i think more people are becoming
33:48
aware
33:48
are able to see the systemic criticism
33:51
that we talk about
33:52
the question for me as winter is ending
33:56
are these people uh very much
33:59
uh willing to protest and to speak up
34:02
because of what the pandemic lockdowns
34:05
and there was no entertainment or tv
34:06
or will they still be vocal and
34:10
testing if need be boycotting even
34:12
better
34:13
when uh vaccination and better times
34:16
occur
34:16
these are the questions we must address
34:18
dr vibe we can go to the next topic
34:21
okay i think uh we did good with that
34:24
one
34:24
so well done well done well done
34:27
excellent as always
34:29
ladies and gentlemen next up
34:33
last day of black history month so
34:37
i have a question do we need a black
34:40
history month
34:45
i just want to put out there do we need
34:47
a black history month
34:50
i’ll take i guess i’ll open that i mean
34:52
i always call it black liberation month
34:54
and for me the purpose of the month but
34:56
could be taken place
34:57
any day of our lives for me what i
35:01
i don’t like about black history month
35:03
and that’s getting into the
35:04
i’m leaving aside the other questions of
35:05
it should be all year i’m just
35:07
if we’re going to have the month um i
35:09
don’t like the focus on first like that
35:11
we have a lot of focus on this person
35:13
was the first person to do this this
35:14
person is the first person to do this
35:16
you know we just sort of shout some
35:17
names and i’m not saying we shouldn’t
35:18
honor our answer so
35:19
the question is why did our ancestors
35:22
exist
35:22
and how are we carrying out this
35:24
struggle so when i’m showing you rocky
35:25
jones’s book i’m not
35:27
showing that because i’m just like oh
35:28
this is a thing like let’s name him
35:30
i’m showing it because in my life as i
35:32
try to organize in my community
35:34
i can read rocky’s book and he left me
35:36
information
35:37
that i can apply now so to me when we
35:40
contemplate black history the purpose of
35:42
it isn’t to seal it off into the past
35:44
it’s not saying martin luther king
35:45
wasn’t he a great man
35:46
is to say what did he do who was a
35:49
relative making change
35:50
what do we learn from that and how do we
35:53
carry that forward so i consider that to
35:54
be african liberation month
35:56
where we should be focusing on what is
35:58
the struggle
35:59
how did we get here what do we learn
36:02
from this struggle and how do we apply
36:03
it today
36:04
and too often of course it becomes
36:06
institutionalized and you know it’s like
36:08
someone you know business being like oh
36:10
like let’s have let’s bring in
36:12
some chicken i mean in the jail they
36:14
literally told me that they got a black
36:15
history month meal and it was like cajun
36:17
chicken strips
36:19
but three years ago they told me on
36:20
black history month in the jail
36:22
this will take everybody back so i’m
36:24
gonna pause three years ago
36:27
for black history month in a provincial
36:29
jail in nova scotia
36:30
home of the historical african nova
36:32
scotian communities they screened
36:34
planet of the apes
36:39
can i leave for black history month
36:43
so i mean when it gets reduced to eat
36:46
some chicken for black history month
36:48
or like some weird car yeah like that
36:52
not only doesn’t help our people i would
36:54
suggest dishonors a lot of what our
36:56
struggle is
36:57
so i’m fine with if we keep this month
37:01
focused on liberation on an opportunity
37:02
for us as a community to get together
37:04
to organize to be in the same space to
37:07
see each other
37:08
and to organize further it has value if
37:10
it’s just
37:11
now yeah your white corporation putting
37:13
up a picture
37:14
of like madame cj walker and then being
37:18
like
37:18
yay black history while they you know
37:21
like
37:22
what are we doing so that’s my take
37:25
caesar
37:31
you’re clapping your hands should i get
37:33
up
37:35
no no now no
37:39
i don’t think it’s so much that we need
37:43
we must have a black history month
37:48
with first understanding that as i share
37:51
notably
37:51
in uh in professional emails as i share
37:55
links and resources
37:57
as yesterday black history month
38:00
is not the shortest month of the year
38:03
black history month
38:04
is 366 days out of 365.
38:09
it’s every day however that said
38:13
um i am born on january 27th
38:17
and thanks again for the surprise gift i
38:20
had
38:23
so as i’m born january 27 there’s
38:25
something uh many black people do not
38:27
know
38:28
um a few decades before my birth
38:32
um exactly uh 35 years before my birth
38:37
january 27 1944 that was the date of
38:41
liberation of the auschwitz camp
38:43
and what happens every year on january
38:46
27
38:46
is that jewish people and notably in
38:49
israel
38:50
they stop they stop everything they do
38:54
the cars stop on the roads
38:57
they stop at a specific time january
39:00
27th for
39:01
i don’t remember if it’s one minute but
39:03
for a moment of reflection
39:05
regarding the identity the struggle the
39:08
liberation
39:09
when i say that i support for black
39:11
history month to continue
39:13
it’s in the spirit of going further
39:16
than the official he was to celebrate
39:18
that we are given
39:20
example uh we are given a certain
39:23
image of martin luther king while making
39:25
black people
39:26
fear that he was a radical and it’s
39:28
greatly part of the reason why
39:30
the us government surprised surpassing
39:32
many black people
39:33
the us government contributed to killing
39:35
it we
39:36
had an image of someone like abraham
39:38
lincoln as the hero
39:40
was started a civil war to liberate
39:43
black people from slavery
39:45
and he had uh he had um
39:48
uh uh a hero frederick douglass next to
39:51
him
39:52
and yet how many of her black youth
39:54
celebrating lincoln
39:56
know that lincoln was yes an
39:58
abolitionist
39:59
but he was also a segregationist within
40:02
black people
40:03
inferior to white i want for my people
40:06
to uh black people worldwide that when
40:10
we celebrate
40:11
black history month as we’ve seen the
40:15
context of 2020
40:17
george floyd black lives matter global
40:20
protest systemic criticism in the
40:21
pandemic contest
40:23
to celebrate beyond the official
40:26
narratives
40:27
but to learn about not just slavery and
40:31
colonization because that’s not the end
40:32
of our history
40:34
to learn beyond that to learn about our
40:36
royalties
40:37
to learn about our glory uh earlier this
40:40
week a dutch photographer released a
40:42
photo
40:43
of uh basically uh
40:46
what uh uh cerro emman hotep the fourth
40:50
aka akhenaten and ferro
40:53
queen uh neferneferouten aka nefertiti
40:58
look like
40:59
they’re black they are black it’s
41:02
important
41:03
that we come to understand this because
41:06
one of the things that happened is and
41:08
allow me to just show quickly
41:10
two books two books that i travel with
41:12
so in my work bag i have five books that
41:14
i always travel with
41:16
we must educate ourselves i’m saying we
41:19
must not
41:20
wait for the system to educate us on the
41:23
four corners of the world where we are
41:24
we must educate ourselves
41:26
on black thought black ideology i’m not
41:29
saying this
41:30
in terms of in terms of pan-africanism
41:32
i’m saying this in terms
41:34
of black identity so that we can
41:37
understand that
41:38
whether i am black in canada my
41:40
connection to blackness is not just
41:42
black americans
41:43
but also afro-brazilians and also
41:47
blacks in ussr just as indigenous
41:50
blacks in australia and
41:54
african immigrants in australia along
41:57
everything in the continent we must have
41:59
a sense of connection
42:01
that goes beyond dividing ourselves
42:04
under
42:04
abrahamic religions judaism christianity
42:07
and islam
42:08
but recognizing that the very blackness
42:11
that we are part of
42:12
is linked to the fate of black hindus
42:16
who four thousand years ago have been
42:18
deposes
42:19
and today in the times that we live
42:21
today there is a campaign
42:24
darkest divine in india to bring
42:28
to bring the truth to black indians who
42:31
have been so
42:32
brainwashed for too many of them to
42:35
think that black is a nissa
42:37
even if they will be darker than any of
42:39
us on the screen
42:40
we must as i was uh giving a conference
42:43
i believe on tuesday to uh university of
42:46
ottawa
42:46
on racism institute we must be able to
42:49
recognize
42:51
that it’s great to know about plato it’s
42:54
great to know about
42:55
aristotle and socrates it’s great to
42:57
know about the thinkers and the history
42:59
of the others
43:00
but how many of us know about not just
43:04
ancient egypt
43:05
but also some of the wisdom of our
43:06
ancestors
43:08
such as tahoe type
43:11
four thousand years ago the 26th century
43:15
before our common era
43:16
some of the wars of wisdom written in
43:19
medunite the hieroglyphs
43:21
in terms of the sense of pride that we
43:23
can get in the same sense as you speak
43:26
to those in chinese leadership
43:28
they speak to you with the logic of
43:31
confucianism
43:32
with the logic of taoism just as those
43:35
who are japanese they speak to you
43:37
with bushido and the very logic of the
43:40
culture just as etc etc etc
43:43
we have to be able to come to that when
43:46
we truly want to speak
43:48
about valuing black history month
43:51
but truly uh as elle was saying as sarah
43:54
was writing
43:56
black liberation 365 days because
44:00
we are so colonized mentally in slaves
44:04
i mean as i give an example in my
44:06
conferences no matter how
44:08
intelligent i can come off no matter how
44:11
i can raise my face
44:12
no matter how i can dress like i’m kunta
44:14
kinte before he became toby
44:17
at the end of the day a black man named
44:19
cesar
44:20
is something very abnormal when we know
44:23
very well we will never meet a white man
44:25
named kofi
44:28
i really want to shout out claire’s
44:30
comments as well as the other companies
44:33
sarah on fire today so first she said we
44:36
need to look at
44:37
at the only as well as the first and
44:40
then put more energy into questioning
44:41
why that person is the only
44:43
in her his or her given field and then
44:46
she also says non-blacks need
44:47
black history month black black
44:50
liberation 365 until canada
44:52
finally starts truly honoring the stated
44:55
objectives of the u.n decade
44:57
and then ngl says the issue is not the
45:00
existence of this month but what we are
45:02
doing with it
45:03
it’s the spirit we’re caring about this
45:06
month
45:06
so l yeah i just want to give you those
45:09
comments good comments there
45:10
great comments and i just wanted to
45:12
briefly talk about a book i just read
45:14
so perlene oliver a book obviously she’s
45:17
passed so this is
45:18
um compiled from interviews her own
45:20
papers and stuff
45:21
uh her book just came out and i didn’t
45:24
know too much about her my whole
45:25
like sort of life people have told me in
45:27
nova scotia you know you would love
45:28
purlin like pearline you’d be all about
45:30
purlin
45:30
and one thing i want to shout out about
45:32
this book so first of all i did not know
45:34
that perleen oliver was responsible for
45:36
black women being able to take nursing
45:38
in canada
45:38
and many people may know ruth bailey who
45:41
was one of the first two black nurses to
45:43
train in canada
45:44
and it was pearline that worked to get
45:46
people like ruth bailey into nursing
45:48
school
45:48
because perlene um a girl had come to
45:51
her door who had tried to go to nursing
45:52
school is very light skin could have
45:53
passed
45:54
and when she got there and checked negro
45:56
they told her no i’m purlin
45:57
since then fought for her um and i
46:00
didn’t know that but what
46:01
to go to what cesar is saying what we’re
46:02
saying about the only there’s a really
46:04
interesting chapter in this book about
46:05
viola desmond
46:07
and we got a bit of a retelling of that
46:08
story so we’ve sort of been given this
46:10
very singular okay so viola desmond sat
46:13
in the theater you know she did it nine
46:14
years before rosa parks
46:16
well carrie best five years before viola
46:19
desmond
46:20
carrie best who published the the
46:21
newspaper um that wrote about viola
46:23
desmond and really publicized the case
46:25
five years before that she had actually
46:27
gone in and done that on purpose
46:29
so that she would get charged so she
46:30
could challenge the law um does anybody
46:32
know that
46:33
um viola when she got out of jail came
46:36
straight to perleen’s house she’s the
46:37
pastor’s wife this is at the parsonage
46:39
so she’s the minister’s wife right
46:41
straight to the door and she’s crying
46:42
and telling her what happened and
46:44
violet didn’t know if she wanted to
46:46
fight and pearl leaves like no we
46:47
fighting this
46:48
and it’s pearline that set up
46:51
the organization that was like we are
46:53
fighting this and we are not allowing
46:55
this to happen viola had just paid the
46:56
fine and pearline was like no
46:58
we don’t know that story um and she also
47:00
goes on to tell us stuff like
47:02
what viola suffered from this that we
47:04
haven’t really talked about that her
47:05
husband essentially left her
47:06
after this happened like he wasn’t into
47:08
this and he was like nah i’m
47:10
not doing this and viola dies like very
47:12
very young right
47:13
so i really want to wrap this book for
47:15
black women’s history
47:17
in canada like and like i just i mean
47:20
i’ve lived in community with pearly
47:21
found of course senator oliver like it’s
47:23
it’s like
47:24
like it’s relate like this is the family
47:26
right like
47:27
um and like i still didn’t know this
47:31
history and this is in my own community
47:32
so
47:33
i want to rep prolene oliver and i want
47:34
to say that yeah whether it’s black
47:36
history month or not
47:37
these are the kind of histories that
47:38
have been so buried and then when we’re
47:40
given it we’re given it in this again
47:42
only way like only viola desmond can be
47:44
on the money only but now it’s
47:45
everything’s only viola desmond and
47:47
they’re like okay we’ll give you one
47:48
we’ll give you this one black woman and
47:50
it’s like what about all the
47:52
other black women and when i’m reading
47:54
pearline’s book i’m like yo like pearly
47:56
should be on the money right beside
47:57
viola and so should carry best
47:59
because they was all in it together that
48:00
wasn’t just one black woman viola that
48:03
was
48:03
three plus black women who organized to
48:05
make this case and we don’t know about
48:07
two of them
48:08
like how am i supposed to live as a
48:10
black woman in canada when you can’t
48:11
even tell me
48:12
that perlene existed and like i’ve lived
48:14
my whole life
48:15
and purlin was an organizer no one ever
48:17
told me so that i could read purlin to
48:19
find out like this is a disgrace in
48:21
terms of how black women’s history is so
48:23
buried and then like we’re given a
48:25
fraction of it so i agree it completely
48:27
like this
48:27
rhetoric of the first and the only is
48:29
actually about excluding
48:30
the many of us that actually have worked
48:32
for liberation interesting i was looking
48:34
to a commentator this week
48:36
saying that when you hear about the
48:38
first and only
48:39
that’s making white history that’s not
48:42
making
48:42
black history because it’s the first one
48:47
in white environment it’s not black
48:49
history
48:51
and uh sarah’s here man sarah why don’t
48:53
you come in and join us one week
48:56
as founder of the clarion and mother of
48:58
james calvert best one of the founders
49:00
of the pfcc
49:02
one of the founders of the brotherhood
49:04
of railway porters
49:05
so this is like union history in canada
49:08
labor history in canada thank you sarah
49:09
right
49:10
and carrie best is so like under known
49:13
like this woman
49:14
the clarion like her newspaper was i
49:16
mean i was reading commentary from kerry
49:18
best again about like social issues
49:19
we’re dealing with now that she was
49:20
writing within the 50s and 60s and 70s
49:23
and
49:23
you know like we like to believe that
49:25
we’re here in 2021 doing new things and
49:27
it’s like no no
49:28
carrie best was doing these things like
49:30
60 years ago and we don’t even know
49:32
about them you know it’s wild
49:35
i i when you when you bring up topics
49:38
like
49:39
people writing back in the 50s 60s 70s
49:41
and we’re doing the same thing today
49:43
what does that say about us
49:49
like
49:50
[Music]
49:52
what’s going on like cesar
49:56
i want you to fill in here how are you
49:58
feeling about black canadian identity
50:00
on the last day of black history month
50:03
2021
50:05
um allow me to bridge uh the
50:08
topic and uh exactly that one that we’re
50:12
talking about maybe i can ask uh
50:14
look uh bia media to show uh
50:17
a link that i just sent them i’d like to
50:20
just
50:20
for all of us to see the photo so when
50:24
we see this photo we should not
50:26
need a dutch photographer we can assume
50:30
it’s a white
50:31
person of course we don’t need a dutch
50:33
photographer
50:35
to know that our blood
50:38
our ancestors were not just
50:42
slaves and colonized people were not
50:44
just
50:45
farmers and merchants but there was
50:48
royalty
50:49
and i should say they were divine why
50:52
nefertiti got to be so light in this
50:54
picture
50:54
[Laughter]
51:01
when i see the with the question of
51:03
black identity
51:04
it really comes to me from our youth to
51:07
the adults
51:08
how are they seeing themselves first and
51:11
foremost
51:12
are they able to see themselves and i’m
51:15
not here
51:16
talking about black panthers it’s not
51:18
for everyone
51:19
most people the vast majority of people
51:21
just want to be able to live
51:23
uh be able to pursue their dreams
51:26
for those who want to get married to
51:28
have children
51:29
and to live happily peacefully if
51:31
possible
51:32
but how many of us as we’re talking
51:34
about survival
51:36
see themselves being able to be black to
51:39
be unapologetically black
51:41
without in the logic of
51:44
franz fano black skin white mask
51:47
black skin arab mask black skin
51:51
indian chinese mask etc without needing
51:54
to wear a mask just to survive
51:56
so when we talk about on this last day
51:59
dr
52:00
vibe as you asked this last black
52:02
history month and looking at black
52:03
identity how i see it
52:06
allow me to take uh to go back to
52:09
politics here
52:11
the way i see it is how too often
52:14
uh we still deal in the 21st century
52:18
despite recognition of uh the prime
52:21
minister and it’s very good that the
52:23
prime minister
52:24
uh trudeau recognized systemic criticism
52:26
but
52:27
much much has to be done we still deal
52:30
with a reality of constant
52:34
insults to our blackness allow me to
52:37
give a quick example of what’s going on
52:38
in quebec
52:40
in quebec in a matter of a few months
52:42
where
52:43
the indigenous lady and mother married
52:47
mother of seven children just ishaquan
52:50
died in a hospital after recording the
52:52
racism she was a victim of
52:54
the quebec parliament rejected the
52:57
report on her death
52:59
mainly because he called for recognition
53:01
of systemic criticism
53:02
this is the same quebec where uh
53:06
a few weeks ago actually i think it was
53:08
two three weeks ago
53:10
a brother mamadi kamaha
53:13
arrested mistreated six days in jail
53:16
his reputation etc are destroyed
53:20
on false allegations and yet this is
53:23
also the same quebec and i’m giving the
53:25
quebec example
53:26
absolutely none in trying to say
53:28
quebecers why quebecers are more racist
53:30
than the rest of canada absolutely not
53:32
but it’s very telling
53:34
this is the same quebec where you end up
53:36
having uh
53:38
a minister uh basically a ministry to
53:41
fight
53:42
entire racism to fight racism
53:45
by a white man whose
53:48
only credential is that he has a mixed
53:51
wife
53:53
it’s ridiculous the first thing he did
53:56
was recognized
53:58
for an article by very fortunately
54:01
the first thing that new minister uh did
54:06
was recognizing an article giving value
54:10
tweeting an article by very
54:12
unfortunately a sister
54:14
being used to deny systemic racism
54:18
and being proud of being black in quebec
54:21
being black is very much recognizing
54:25
that our blackness is he still
54:29
defined by us as being unapologetically
54:31
black or is this being controlled by
54:33
those in power
54:34
allow me to give a last example and then
54:37
uh i i
54:38
passed a match to sister l i think it
54:41
was two days ago i think it was thursday
54:44
or three days ago thursday as
54:47
uh i attended i listened to the uh black
54:50
history month address
54:52
of uh conservative leader
54:55
uh aaron o’toole and as i had a
54:58
conversation with some
54:59
of my sisters and brothers who
55:02
identified politics
55:04
as black conservatives to me you know
55:06
what i think about black people siding
55:08
left or right it was interesting how
55:13
their leader
55:14
still does not recognize systemic
55:16
criticism
55:17
oh yes he recognizes his racism but
55:19
guess what donald trump recognized
55:21
racism exists
55:22
but also now we’re in brazil working as
55:24
racism exists i don’t know a white
55:26
person who doesn’t deny
55:28
that racism exists but recognizing that
55:30
systemic racism
55:31
exists is a completely different thing
55:34
when white say racism exists they’re
55:36
speaking more in terms of
55:37
individuals when you become
55:40
able to recognize and we have to give
55:42
credit to trudeau here i’m not giving
55:44
him a pass remember
55:45
blackface brownface i don’t forgive but
55:48
we have to give him credit here when
55:50
you’re working on systemic criticism
55:52
exists
55:52
you understand it’s about the structures
55:55
the institutions
55:56
the entire system and as such even
55:59
though
55:59
we can have a privilege of being here uh
56:02
in the media of being here uh employed
56:06
of being in certain positions of
56:07
influence
56:08
at any moment of blackness can be used
56:12
against us to bring us down to basically
56:16
ostracize us to mistreat us so the truth
56:19
about
56:20
february 28 2021
56:23
to be quite honest with much respect to
56:26
global protests about black lives matter
56:29
systemic racism and social determinants
56:31
of health
56:32
june 6 the capital the truth is that
56:36
february 28th 2021 looks very much like
56:39
february 28
56:41
2020 and i’m sorry february 29
56:45
2020 it looks like any other end of the
56:48
day
56:50
in february ultimately
56:53
fubu logic for us by us
56:57
not awaiting from the system not
56:59
awaiting from
57:01
well-willing allies not waiting on
57:04
corporations who
57:05
on february first suddenly discover oh
57:07
my god it’s black
57:10
raise the first
57:15
as well i just wanted sylvia’s comment
57:18
yeah i want to bring i want to bring
57:19
that comment up
57:20
so look if you can bring up sil i want
57:22
to read this
57:24
short put to l speak telling our full
57:27
story about us
57:28
for us and by us we do not need to make
57:30
sure that what exists is shared with
57:32
schools and community
57:33
we are pushing these stories which are
57:35
available at the delmore buddy
57:36
day institute we are pushing to write
57:39
more and more and share the facts
57:41
contributions of our resilience they’re
57:43
also available on this platform dr
57:45
vaj’s platform and many other platforms
57:47
over to ul my sister
57:49
oh no i i don’t know i don’t know if
57:51
we’re wrapping up because there’s been
57:52
about
57:56
[Laughter]
58:00
institute also has um like yeah if you
58:02
go in there there’s a
58:04
display of many of these books that talk
58:06
about history i mean you can’t go in
58:07
there right now or you don’t live here
58:08
but
58:09
they have a library right um i don’t
58:12
know if we wanted to go to that last
58:13
topic but then that cesar’s
58:15
to kick off so well but i just want to
58:18
read what sarah just put up
58:19
yeah it seems that white french quebec
58:22
is determined to cling to its victim
58:23
status vis-a-vis
58:25
white english planet by stifling the
58:27
non-white quebec voices fighting to
58:29
dismantle the very systemic
58:30
racism in that province very good
58:33
outlook
58:34
yeah i actually just was in i’m in a
58:36
conference in like a couple of weeks
58:37
that’s in quebec about policing and they
58:38
literally kind of warned me that they
58:40
can’t use the word racial profiling
58:42
because the government doesn’t
58:43
acknowledge racial profiling exists they
58:45
call it social profiling
58:46
and they refuse to even acknowledge
58:49
racial profiling
58:50
and this exact thing that is complicated
58:53
and quebec by like the white quebec
58:54
population that really is
58:56
is wedded to this notion of themselves
58:57
as historical victims so refusing
58:59
to acknowledge type of question if white
59:03
quote backers are victims what are
59:04
blacks
59:05
what are indigenous people what
59:07
auditious people like
59:09
wow oh oh cesar is back cesar
59:12
is back here we go i can give you a very
59:15
very very short uh i don’t want to go
59:17
too much into
59:18
because to understand what’s happening
59:21
in quebec
59:22
and i dare to say it it’s a mix of
59:25
history politics and society
59:27
in a global context the very language in
59:30
terms of
59:31
anti-racism anti-oppression systemic
59:34
racism
59:35
uh equity diversity inclusivity is not
59:37
french
59:39
quebec just like france denies this
59:41
concept
59:42
they basically dance to the left bob and
59:45
weave to the right
59:46
etc to avoid calling a kettle a kettle
59:50
and one of the things that you get is
59:51
that in the french mindset
59:54
the very concept that we’re talking
59:56
about in the anglophone world
59:58
for all the issues in the anglo-saxon
60:00
world 10-15 years later
60:02
that’s what becomes topic in the french
60:05
context
60:06
so what you end up seeing in the to give
60:08
the example of quebec is
60:10
the enemy is the bad angle phones
60:14
and then you point out to the the
60:17
developed muslim woman as they come
60:19
they’re gonna take over and then you
60:21
have the angry black people
60:23
who are a bunch of black panthers they
60:25
hate white people
60:27
and then you have to use the language
60:29
that so many use
60:31
the perception of indigenous people are
60:33
still savages
60:34
it’s it’s very terrible because one of
60:36
the things that happened is that
60:38
the systems of oppression always and
60:41
still find
60:42
black people willing to play that game
60:44
willing to basically
60:46
say the narrative of whiteness to make
60:49
white people feel like
60:50
hey i’m not racist look at what this
60:52
person said look at what that
60:53
entertainer said
60:55
i mean we need to have this conversation
60:57
in terms of you know uh
60:58
basically this canada that really feels
61:01
like
61:02
two different people aka quebec and the
61:04
rest of canada
61:05
but in quebec as in the rest of canada
61:08
black people indigenous people
61:11
we are very much at the bottom and not
61:14
only in terms of statistics
61:16
but even in terms of our voices even in
61:18
terms of our representation
61:20
and not just in politics also in arts
61:23
and all that so that’s why we have to
61:25
really in working with the institutions
61:27
always as pan-africanism said
61:30
collectivity and solidarity unity and
61:33
always
61:34
black identity and black consciousness
61:36
it’s the only way
61:37
we can get around and we can survive
61:40
to live well
61:43
uh i think one there one of the things i
61:45
hope
61:47
is that you both of you and warren
61:50
are as busy all year round as you were
61:52
this this month
61:54
and that’s a telling statement in itself
61:57
right
61:58
we’re just you know and it’s just it
62:00
just enlarges my thought about
62:02
this whole thing about diversity
62:04
inclusion
62:05
i don’t hear about it as much anymore as
62:07
i did a few months ago
62:11
i’m not saying i’m just saying or
62:13
they’re doing things without asking our
62:15
community so they’re like
62:16
hey we’re doing this thing for you like
62:18
did we ask for that have you asked for
62:19
our input
62:20
did we get to say anything about this
62:22
were we consulted
62:24
so how is this for us like yeah we have
62:27
to keep
62:28
the foot on the gas pedal continuously
62:32
right because i was speaking with
62:34
someone yesterday and they were talking
62:36
about
62:36
yeah this organization’s doing diversity
62:39
and inclusion i said okay well
62:41
who’s measuring it what
62:44
what is the measurement of success
62:48
there’s too many i just have a question
62:50
for a number of organizations that say
62:51
they’re doing diversity inclusion
62:54
who’s measuring it and are you going to
62:56
report the results publicly
62:59
it’s very very good to say you’re doing
63:01
programs but hey
63:03
when our people have to apply for grants
63:06
and loans
63:07
we’re being measured
63:11
we’re being measured and if we don’t if
63:12
we don’t comply
63:14
we get the rug pull from us should it
63:16
not be for these organizations that
63:19
allegedly allegedly
63:22
are doing diversity inclusion i’ve heard
63:25
too many horror stories
63:27
especially this month and a lot of these
63:29
online things
63:30
on how people look like myself cesar
63:34
warren and elle are being treated
63:37
and and i’m going okay what about
63:39
diversity inclusion
63:41
they say it’s the pipe dream smoking
63:43
mirrors
63:45
so my concern is is when i wake up on
63:48
march 1st
63:49
what different
63:53
anyone want to add before we close no
63:56
[Music]
64:01
no if i can just say uh brother uh
64:03
brother
64:04
what you were saying was too often the
64:07
black struggle
64:09
the black liberation is co-opted by
64:12
uh white power
64:16
white in power positions to basically
64:19
um uh what do you call that
64:22
bleach it yeah if you click the language
64:25
but make sure that you put
64:27
lighter skin to white face if we take
64:30
the historical example of
64:32
affirmative action how many people
64:34
actually know that those who benefited
64:36
the most
64:37
of affirmative action are not black
64:39
people white women
64:41
white women notably in academia
64:45
i think y’all agree on that one
64:48
but it is absolutely truthful when we
64:51
look at very much even right now uh end
64:54
of last year december
64:55
as we were talking the very uh
64:59
uh work on systemic racism in montreal
65:03
that had begun with balarama wholeness
65:06
and
65:06
other black activists involving black
65:09
people
65:10
the position to address systemic
65:12
criticism in montreal
65:14
was given by mayor julie plant
65:18
to a non-black woman
65:21
she qualified in terms of her activism
65:23
and her education
65:24
i’m gonna tell you yes she is
65:28
but can you think of me being given a
65:30
position to address
65:31
anti-semitism in any city because i did
65:35
jewish studies and look at me that could
65:37
never happen
65:39
that could never happen so just as we
65:41
were talking about this type of
65:42
situation just as we’re talking about
65:44
the very notion of equity diversity and
65:46
inclusion
65:48
on another topic we should not say
65:49
inclusion we have to say inclusivity
65:52
big difference it’s like equality versus
65:54
equity i will explain that another time
65:56
but just as we talked about edi one of
65:59
the things that happened is that it gets
66:01
whitewashed it gets bleached it gets
66:04
basically uh it gets basically uh
66:07
torn down to become more palatable
66:11
to those in the dominant group and in
66:15
power positions
66:16
aka yeah bring it just don’t bring it
66:19
too hard
66:20
especially if you want to get paid i was
66:23
going to say that i think 80 percent of
66:25
the backlash that i get is that people
66:26
like that one’s light
66:28
she must be nice and then i open my like
66:31
well
66:32
we let the wrong one in you know like
66:35
so because i mean that’s like shade is
66:36
also part of this right like lighter
66:38
skin people can come in darker skin
66:40
people get back
66:41
right like what they think you look like
66:43
what you represent how you speak what
66:44
your accent is
66:46
what neighborhood you’re from this all
66:47
matters so yeah i mean i’m also laughing
66:50
because i’m like i think at the
66:51
beginning of like my career people like
66:53
oh that was nice
66:54
you know that one look looks like she
66:56
might be okay you know and then they’re
66:57
like oh
66:58
shoot that one’s not nice at all but
67:02
again this divide and rule right which
67:04
is also based on shade and appearance
67:06
and
67:07
positionality in the world and are you
67:09
from africa
67:10
are you from here or from there right
67:11
like and and it’s all
67:13
bogus right like i i’m just to be clear
67:15
i’m not i don’t believe in like
67:17
biracialism and like light versus i
67:20
don’t believe in that but i’m saying
67:21
that like white people do right they
67:22
created it
67:23
so their other sort of beloved way is to
67:25
try and divide us up and say like this
67:27
one’s educated
67:28
so they’ll be nicer this one’s
67:29
conservative so they’ll be nicer this
67:30
one
67:31
you know isn’t like the rest of them
67:32
this one that drew in a white
67:34
neighborhood this one went to a white
67:35
private school they might be easier to
67:37
deal with so it’s also our
67:39
responsibility to like
67:41
you know again like be like if you’re
67:43
getting me you’re getting all of us
67:45
you know so just know that if you’re
67:46
asking me don’t be surprised when you
67:48
get
67:48
all of us and like that i’m here to rep
67:51
all of us because yeah i mean and this
67:53
is is uh
67:55
you know i i mean to go back to perlin’s
67:57
book you know like this was a woman that
67:58
was
67:59
you know like a minister’s wife like the
68:01
most respectable woman in the world and
68:02
she was hardcore
68:04
right like she’s talking about going in
68:05
and talking to the chamber of commerce
68:06
and being like
68:07
yo like you know let black tourists come
68:09
up to this province and like this is a
68:11
fascinating part of her book because
68:13
she’s like showing that people coming
68:14
out from boston that are black that are
68:16
like coming to
68:17
tourists as nova scotia i think it’ll be
68:18
less racist and it’s like more racist
68:20
they can’t even stay in a hotel
68:21
and we forget that because we like to
68:22
pretend that canada was the promised
68:24
land
68:24
but she’s talking about through the 40s
68:26
and 50s where like
68:28
it’s segregated here and it’s not
68:30
segregated in boston
68:31
so black people are coming up here and
68:33
being like
68:34
i’m going home because i like can’t stay
68:37
at a hotel
68:38
so i guess i’m leaving nova scotia and
68:39
then this black woman purlin
68:41
respectable minister’s wife everything
68:44
nice
68:44
is going in front of the y and in front
68:46
of the chamber of commerce and butting
68:48
it down
68:48
and being like what’s going on and she
68:51
you know that’s just one example of the
68:53
many hidden people
68:54
who fought past what she could have had
68:57
she could have gone in and given nice
68:58
speeches and being given cake you know
69:00
and instead she’s like nah i’m here for
69:02
the black woman who can’t be nurses
69:04
so yeah again emma berlin oliver
69:07
obviously
69:07
but i use that as an example of somebody
69:11
that they thought
69:12
was going to be for them and was never
69:14
for them was for us
69:16
wonderful good close off to another epic
69:19
conversations called black canada
69:21
talking
69:22
held last sunday of each month at 5 00
69:24
pm eastern time with
69:25
l jones cesar and warren who isn’t here
69:28
today because he needs to rest but we’re
69:30
going to get him back next month
69:32
uh l if people want to get in touch with
69:33
you before you go for your culinary
69:35
delight
69:37
what’s the best way for them to touch
69:38
base with you you can always email me
69:41
el.js
69:42
at msvu.ca i do have facebook but it’s
69:45
always full up
69:46
um sorry like one day
69:50
but no problem cesar
69:54
thank you always brother vibe al
69:57
warren uh and bi media
70:00
me reaching me president of roots and
70:03
culture
70:04
canada and at the same time uh
70:07
i am on facebook my facebook is always
70:09
very active
70:10
cesar space remy r i m y
70:13
space m e m e-m-e-r-y
70:17
and if i can just say one last thing
70:19
look
70:20
uh can you just very quickly show again
70:22
that photo
70:23
of uh ancient egypt if that’s possible
70:27
i just want to pass a little message
70:29
from some of my mentees
70:31
and the high school students who might
70:33
be watching us
70:35
to remember remember that
70:38
slavery and colonization is not the
70:40
start of black history
70:42
it’s not the center of his or black
70:44
history but those are chapters
70:46
very important chapters but there is
70:49
everything there’s royalty and at the
70:50
time
70:51
of i cannot enfor ttt
70:54
truly truly blackness was respected
70:58
at another level worldwide thank you
71:02
wonderful we got the picture up and i
71:04
would like to thank
71:05
sarah angel also other things
71:09
of course ms sylvia paris the honorable
71:12
silvia paris
71:13
and everybody who watches live on the
71:15
replay or listen to it
71:17
on the replay i would like to say
71:20
thank you to l thank you to warren thank
71:22
you to cesar
71:24
as always if you want to get in contact
71:26
with me the best place to do that is get
71:28
contact at my website the drveshoww.com
71:33
as always i like to get off my
71:34
conversations like this live your life
71:36
is a dream if you can dream it you can
71:38
make it
71:38
sometimes you have to get smaller to get
71:40
stronger block assumptions getting
71:42
bigger
71:43
and better aim higher and wider love
71:45
faith and respect
71:47
remember to give yourself grace thanks
71:49
bia media and one final thing
71:51
a lot of people ask me oh what’s one of
71:54
the what’s the best interview we’ve ever
71:55
done
71:57
i feel that every conversation i’ve done
71:59
is epic but i will
72:01
promote one especially for black people
72:04
at the end of last year i had the
72:06
honor and privilege to interview
72:08
gentlemen named d chanson berry
72:10
you probably not have heard of him but
72:12
he has produced
72:13
independently 27 documentaries
72:16
one of the documentaries he’s produced
72:19
you know two of them is called
72:20
dark girls 1 and dark girls 2 it’s all
72:23
about
72:24
black women around the world whitening
72:26
their skin to be accepted by culture
72:29
and i had the blessing and privilege to
72:32
have conversations with them
72:34
twice last year both on the website but
72:37
in the second one that he did to the end
72:38
of last year
72:40
i highly recommend every black person
72:43
watch that conversation i’ve had people
72:45
that are not black saying
72:47
wow that that educated me so much one of
72:49
the great quotes he said and this is
72:51
what i’m speaking
72:53
to black people around the world not
72:56
just in black history month
72:57
but when you wake up tomorrow think
72:59
about this
73:01
too many times we as black people
73:05
are making dinner out of scraps
73:09
i don’t want black people to have to
73:11
deal with the scraps of life anymore i
73:13
want us to eat
73:14
dinner those who are worthy because
73:16
there are some that are not
73:18
but those who are worthy i want you to
73:20
have
73:21
your dinner instead of having to make it
73:24
out of scraps
73:25
god bless peace you all keep the faith

***

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