I am a big believer in ‘cosmic coincidence’ and overlapping soul circles of people meeting when they are meant to. I discovered the life changing work of Susan Cottrell when I watched her TEDx talk that reinforced some of what I do in practice as a therapist serving teens and adults who identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community. Some of them struggle with rejection by the very people they hope would be there for them, their families. Sometimes I cry with them, and always tell them that I stand with them as they claim who they are. I also celebrate with those who tell me that their families embrace them in all of who they are. When I have the chance to meet with the parents, I acknowledge that even if it might have been a challenge initially, their acceptance may very well have saved their child’s life.
Enjoy getting to know this wondrous woman, who with her husband, stand with two of their children who identity as queer. She is known as “The Mother of All MamaBears.”
You share your family’s journey in your remarkable TEDx talk called Why I Chose My Daughter Over the Evangelical Church. I cried and cheered along with the audience. Can you tell the readers here how you came to make that lifesaving decision.
I was shocked that I was expected to choose between my child and my church. (They frame it as choice between your child and God but make no mistake—the choice is your child or the church.) At first, I felt overwhelmed having to choose one over the other, and I wondered: how this had become such a dealbreaker? Am I missing something? But as I poured myself into research to understand this, I suddenly realized: there is no love in any of that expectation! The naysaying had no empathy, or love, which should be the hallmark of a person of faith! At that point I realized that whatever I had to understand about my theology I would come to understand, or not. But my child had to come first. My child’s humanity had to come first.
Did you do what I call ‘God wrestling’ in conversation with the Divine, about Annie? You mention on your website that you have another child in the community as well. How are both of them doing as they navigate a world that is not always welcoming?
Yes, it was wrestling with God. But it was like a loving dad who says, “Look at you!” when their child flexes their muscles, because they’re so cute! But I no longer wrestle with God. God is so extraordinarily gentle and kind and overflowing with love that it became Dancing with God!
Both our queer children are doing well, thank you for asking! The second one was not in the TED talk because she didn’t want to be, but now she’s good with me talking about her!
Does it feel like your faith is stronger than ever?
I would say my faith is more authentic than ever. We deconstructed down to the foundations, Spirit and I, and boy what shoddy craftsmanship we discovered! We’ve been rebuilding stone by stone, and I now have a functional and beautiful faith I can live in. It’s more like a B&B than a church! I look MORE like Jesus than I ever did as part of a church! I overflow with love, compassion, empathy, and have way less judgment, rules, exclusion. More hospitality, less country club!
I saw that you have become a minister and marry same sex couples. What has that experience been like for you?
We love to marry same-sex couples! Rob and I both perform weddings, and we can feel the joy. I went to seminary (though I was already biblically well trained) because I wanted to understand—and deconstruct—the ridiculous arguments of the naysayers. There I saw the carnage of humanity in unmarked graves that religion is built on. That was grievous and eye-opening.
There are alarming statistics about the outcome of parental rejection after a child (regardless of age) tells their families that they identify as a member of the LGBTQ+ community. Can you please share them so that we get a more vivid picture of how devastating that action is?
The stats are staggering. 57% of transgender children without parental support attempt suicide. When even one parent is supportive, that number drops to 4%. 25% of LGBTQ homeless youth became homeless the same day they came out to Christian parents. The Family Acceptance Project has done beautiful work in this. Their science-based research show that full acceptance leads to better outcomes: better health, self-esteem, family relationships, and stronger social support. Poor acceptance leads to poor outcomes: depression, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts, and risky behavior such as drug use. The only responsible, loving, Christlike course is to unconditionally love, accept, affirm, and support our LGBTQ children and community.
And then, what can happen when parents and other family members embrace their children and the courage it took for them to ‘come out’?
People are afraid to come out because of backlash from their communities, and that is a real risk. You may be thrown out of your community—children or parents. But here’s the thing. It only sounds scary until you take the dive! Then you discover new community that is much more loving, kind, compassionate than what you left! It’s like cleaning out your closet. You think you’ll miss those dated, ill-fitting clothes until you get your new clothes, and then you’re so happy! Christians love to believe that if pressed, they’d do the right thing. Well supporting this community, including your children or relatives, is the right thing! We have the power to counteract the cruelty they may experience outside of our home simply by loving and accepting our LGBTQ children as they are.
I have heard from some in the community that the term ‘coming out’ is a limiting concept and they prefer the idea of allowing other people into their world when it feels safe to do so. What are your thoughts about that?
I love the idea of treating each other with such respect that people are safe and free to live in their full humanity without a big announcement or fear of judgment. That is the antidote to our widespread commodification of each other. To come out is, ideally, a way to be known more fully, and to live freely as one’s authentic self. But because of our culture, it usually includes the notion of seeking approval, which is part of our commodification. Not helpful. We as humans have a long way to go to de-commodify and decolonize ourselves.
How can parents who feel isolated from their spiritual communities bond with others who made the same choice that you and your husband did to embrace Annie as is, without regard to what they were taught in the church?
The answer is to find like-hearted community. We began FreedHearts to help parents not feel isolated, to give them community as well as to answer their theological concerns. We love when parents to reach out to us—through FreedHearts.org—so we can get them connected to our safe, online parents communities. If your people can’t hear you as you embark on this journey—or if they discourage you from taking this journey—then they may not be your people. We’ll connect you to your people! You will find peace and freedom you never knew existed! We also have safe online community for the queer community. FreedHearts.org
Our mission is to change the human conversation on love and inclusion, and free hearts to love and be loved. That starts with Community.
We have also created extensive resources, including our Beloved Adventure Courses, to help people along the path! They are beautifully insightful and healing, deeply affordable and available to do in your own home. We’re doing some great things over here! Come and see for yourself!
For every claim of hellfire and brimstone messages that are shared in the Bible, how can Christian parents of a child in the LGBTQ+ community challenge them with a WWJD response?
Jesus said love God and love others, and EVERYTHING else would line up under that! He said the Holy Spirit would lead us in ALL TRUTH! And he said DON’T JUDGE! The non-affirming church has failed at this miserably. Jesus’ message was profoundly simple. But religious leaders (whom Jesus scorned for their judgment, rules, and lack of love) have complicate all by sticking their hands in to grab their own slice of power. The non-affirming church offers BAD NEWS, but Jesus’ simple message is GOOD NEWS!
I imagine that you have been confronted by hate rhetoric from those who are still immersed in their mistranslation of the loving teachings of Jesus. How do you hold steady even while you have normal human emotions about it?
Honestly, it rolls right off me. Everything these people say has nothing to do with me! Nothing to do with this community! It reflects the people speaking, not those they’re speaking about. So, it’s hard to be bothered. I also know these people are deeply conditioned to believe this rhetoric they’ve been taught. It comes down from religious leaders above them who strip large swaths of people of their humanity, so they can increase their own power. How could that have anything to do with me… or with God? It doesn’t. Sometimes I get short on patience! But I don’t take it personally.
You talk about the idea of people deconstructing their faith. What was the journey like for you and how can others learn from your experience?
When I first started, I was so afraid of getting it wrong! I kept saying, “God, don’t let me lead people astray!” as I wrote my blog and talked to people about love above all else. And I could feel God’s little smile as God sent more people for me to love! Finally, it hit me: we were not warned not to lead people astray (EXCEPT through rules, as religious leaders do); we were told to LOVE ABOVE ALL ELSE! My decades in the church had deeply conditioned me into fear about rules, but it did not teach me what it means to love well! That clarity is when I knew I was on the right track. The first question is always, if I’ve been wrong about this, what else am I wrong about? It seems scary but let that go—once you’re on the other side, you can see so clearly! Simply take Spirit’s hand, muster up your courage, and step beyond the fear. Go where the road leads you. You won’t regret it! It’s what you’ve been called to!
Tell us about your podcast and some of the subjects you have covered.
We love doing our FreedHearts podcast! It has now reached more than 100 countries and more than 6,000 cities. Rob and I do it together, it’s so fun, and we dive deep! We talk about being intersex or transgender; coming out; being safe; deconstructing beliefs about God and the bible; codependence; guilt; gaslighting; can we change non-affirming Christians’ minds? when an apology is not enough; how the bible affirms trans and nonbinary people; what is a cult? is this still my family? broken family. So many things! So much fun! People can just search for FreedHearts (one word) on any podcast platform.
I’m fascinated with the conversation you had about Harry Potter in the face of J.K. Rowling’s anti-trans statements. Can you share about that?
We have just released our new Beloved Adventure course; Reclaim the Harry Potter You Love! It is a labor of love I’ve been making notes for, for about five years now! Long before JK made her transphobic remarks! Harry Potter irrevocably changed a generation; so many found permission to be who they are from this boy who was shoved in a closet! Then the author made indefensible transphobic remarks that have deeply hurt the transgender community. I strongly reconsidered whether I should go through with this course. But in my heart of hearts, Spirit very clearly said, “Yes! Do it! It will be powerful!” And so, I have prepared this course and I am so excited! These are OUR stories, and I was not about to let her steal them from us.
She is one person with ill-conceived and transphobic opinions. But the books belong to us, we brought the magic to it, we internalized it and soaked it into our souls. She didn’t do that. She has been irresponsible with her kids, and she’s lost custody of them! She gets nothing from me doing this, but the community gets to relive a beloved series and let it change their lives all over again, in today’s current times! I hope people will join us for this Magical Harry Potter Beloved Adventure!
Like you, I do the Free Mom Hugs activities. Can you share what drew you to it and some memories that have remained with you of people you have hugged?
I have always identified with the oppressed, having come from a childhood of pain and loss. I love to help people find love, and life, and belonging! It’s what we’re here on this earth to do. I’m also a hugger! I am deeply moved by the people we love—they say things like, I haven’t had a parental love in years! I haven’t had a HUG in years! I needed this. Thank you for showing me that a parent could really love me! They are deeply moved that we would spend our time going to hug them. I get emails daily from people who say, You literally saved my life! Please keep doing what you’re doing! Thank you for providing such great content and such safe community. It doesn’t get better than that!
Is there anything else you want to share?
We must speak up when people’s humanity is threatened. We must speak truth to power. Elie Wiesel said, “You cannot be neutral in the face of oppression. To be silent is to side with the oppressor.” We—especially those who identify as Christians—must stand with the oppressed, against any oppression of human dignity. Not to stand is to be complicit. Please. Don’t wait to act as a person of faith for some “Jesus thing to do.” Act on behalf of people’s humanity. That’s the Jesus thing to do.
***
If you believe in the work we are doing here at The Good Men Project, please support our mission and join us as a Premium Member.
All Premium Members get to view The Good Men Project with NO ADS. Need more info? A complete list of benefits is here.
Talk to you soon.
Images courtesy of Susan Cottrell and Robert Cottrell