I’ve been listening to my happily marries guy friends as we smoke cigars, ride bikes, and attend family picnics. I keep hearing similar things from quite different 40-something year-old married men. It has to do with the role of sex in their marriage. These are men who love their wives. But I keep hearing about the complex calculus of how and when these guys might get some action, when it will be withheld, and the rules of passionate engagement for married men in 2011.
I’m used to guys bemoaning the role of husband, complaining about gender differences, and even the vexing challenge of raising teenagers. But I’ve been struck in the last few weeks how many men are talking quite openly about their desire for more passion. It could be random and is far from a scientific sample. But still. These are not guys—money managers, lawyers, scientists—I would not expect to be so open about their yearning for intimacy.
At the same time have noticed more women who seem content to separate sex from the rest of their lives. I was listening to comedian Sarah Colonna joke about wanting a man across the street she can sleep with when she needs physical pleasure with but she really doesn’t want a husband or a boyfriend.
Part of what my married guy friends seem to be saying, I think, is that their wives focus most of their passion on their female friendships. Husbands are around, at least to some extent, to service various needs. But emotional passion is a female-on-female thing and sexual passion is just not all that interesting anymore.
Finally, we have Erica Jong weighing in today in the NYT piece, “Is Sex Passé?”:
Generalizing about cultural trends is tricky, but everywhere there are signs that sex has lost its frisson of freedom. Is sex less piquant when it is not forbidden? Sex itself may not be dead, but it seems sexual passion is on life support.
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Jong goes on to talk specifically about women of the “next generation,” which would be mine:
Sex for women leads to madness in attics, cancer and death by fire. Better to soul cycle and write cookbooks. Better to give up men and sleep with one’s children. Better to wear one’s baby in a man-distancing sling and breast-feed at all hours so your mate knows your breasts don’t belong to him. Our current orgy of multiple maternity does indeed leave little room for sexuality. With children in your bed, is there any space for sexual passion? The question lingers in the air, unanswered.
I really have no way if it is true, but what I would like to believe is that men are actually thirsty for passionate sex, the kind that actually means something. All this porn and sexting and debasing of romance has scared women off. And us guys are left longing for the real thing.
Or as Erica Jong puts it from the perspective of the woman who famously wrote Fear of Flying:
Different though we are, men and women were designed to be allies, to fill out each other’s limitations, to raise children together and give them different models of adulthood. We have often botched attempts to do this, but there is valor in trying to get it right, to heal the world and the rift between the sexes, to pursue the healing of home and by extension the healing of the earth.
Physical pleasure binds two people together and lets them endure the inevitable pains and losses of being human. When sex becomes boring, something deeper is usually the problem — resentment or envy or lack of honesty. So I worry about the sudden craze for Lysistrata’s solution [Aristophanes’ play in which Lysistrata convinces the other women of Greece to withhold all sexual gratification from their men until the men negotiate an end to the Peloponnesian War]. Why reject honey for vinegar? Don’t we all deserve sugar in our bowls?
If my little non-scientific poll is any indication, us guys have noticed what is going on. We miss you and the passion which has been replaced with functional sex, kids in bed, and emotional connections to girlfriends rather than us.
I am with Jong that generalizing about cultural trends is a tricky business, but there are at least a few guys I know who are looking for loving of the most intimate kind.
This is one thing I’m proud of. Been married 45 years and only had sex with wife once in 45 years. I worked 40 years on the mid night shift and moved down to the basement so I wouldn’t have to sleep or be intimate with her. I’m retired now and still don’t associate with her. I don’t know how she feels but really thats not my problem. I haven’t talked to her in about 7 months. And thats good.
I also think that women generally place more value in their relationships with other women, and often view their mates more like an appliance than an intimate partner.
Glad to hear this, Tom….I concur. I , too have noticed more men recently who’ve come through my website (www.PoSARC.com) tell me they’re getting tired of the “empty calories” out there, primarily from porn but also hypersexualized tv, hook-up sex, etc. I hear them tell me they are sorely missing genuine intimacy, the rekindling of romance with the woman they fell in love with, the deep connections that bring real satisfaction and joy. The most “progressed” sex addict I know who has slept with over 600 women told me last week he wants to find someone kind to get married… Read more »
Great post, and love the follow up by omgchronicles. After working as a sex worker for almost 20 years, I have seen MANY men who are married, yet seeking out sex outside of that relationship. I agree with Tom that a fair amount are seeking the passion that is missing at home, including that feeling of intimacy. One only needs to google “GFE” or girl-friend-experience to see the trend in men seeking paid professionals that can simulate the intimacy one would expect with an actual girlfriend. Many of the married men I see tell me how they love their wives,… Read more »
Very timely. I think it is hard to talk about sex – especially men. Men can talk about fucking – but sex and intimacy are another thing. I know how hard it is for me and I am a pretty sexually aware person. My wife and I have a commitment to working on this – and that is what it takes. It may be a bit mechanical at first but it opens the lines of communication. Like everything else it requires communication and practice. It takes two to kill a sex life and it is usually reflective of the lack… Read more »
I’m an early Gen-X’er, born in the late 1960’s, and I’ve never been married or had kids, but most of my friends are married so I’m something of an impartial observer. My generation came of age during the era of divorce, serial step-parents, latchkey kids, AIDS and the beginning of the porn explosion, with the advent of the VCR. The freewheeling 60’s and 70’s were long gone by the time we were teenagers, though we sure heard a lot about it (tiresomely) from our aging hippie teachers and college professors. Today’s freewheeling hookup culture was not even on our radar.… Read more »
Now, exactly how many happily married men did you chat with to reach this generalization?
@Ry “Unsurprisingly, these men report that they crave similar levels of sexual stimulations in partner sex.” Then, the onus is on the men to express that — lovingly and kindly — to their partners , and for their partners to listen lovingly and kindly. Then, they can take it from there. It isn’t the porn, people — it’s how people allow or don’t allow it to impact their relationships!
Not everyone wants to do kinky, weird or physically uncomfortable things no matter how “kindly” it’s presented to them. The problem with a lot of what’s portrayed in porn is that it’s not enjoyable to women and it may even be physically painful or overwhelmingly disgusting, e.g. pounding anal sex, gagging blow jobs, being choked, “facials” etc. Not saying there aren’t women into that sort of thing, but I suspect it’s a minority of women.
Sarah, you are right, and I do believe that the accessibility of porn is shifting/sharping sexuality in our culture, both men’s AND women’s fantasies. It’s unfortunate that we aren’t better equipped to talk about sex openly, and provide our children with comprehensive sex education throughout their youth to help create better criticism of these outlets, and put porn in proper perspective. But sexual compatibility can be just as important of a component as other aspects to a marriage, and if libidos or fantasies are not congruent, that is not fair for either party. Just as a woman should not have… Read more »
“All this porn and sexting and debasing of romance has scared women off. And us guys are left longing for the real thing.” You’ve hit on a really important point here. The thing is, guys are not left longing for “the real thing” so much as they are left longing for porn-type kink. With the internet, pornography became way more accessible and easier to consume than ever before. However, studies have found that porn has a “tolerance” issue similar to illicit drugs. Men who watch porn frequently (I’ve only heard of studies done with men – not sure if the… Read more »
I don’t see any real evidence for this assertion, just intuiting what you think is a generally held opinion.
I’m a soon to be divorced woman. Want to know why I left? Our sex life died. I was not the cause. I have a very high/strong sex drive. He did not. There was always an excuse. Sure, in the beginning it was awesome. Mind-blowing. All.the.TIME. There were toys. There was excitement. Passion. It was raw and animalistic even. Then we got married. Had kids. He worked 60+ hours a week while I stayed home with the kids. I tried to flirt. Tried to initiate. But more often than not, I was turned down. So eventually I stopped flirting. I… Read more »
Did you put on weight? Seriously, an extra 20-30 pounds will make a hot woman a boner killer.
I know women-centered magazines won’t tell you the truth about that, but there it is.
(cue all the harpies who insist *real* men love their BBW no matter what. ha hah)
Actually, women-centered and male-centered magazines and media remind us all the time that the general public doesn’t like overweight women and therefore, if you are an over-weight woman, you should hate yourself too. There are always images of perfect looking women in both and *tips* how to loose weight or look younger. You unknowingly touched on one reason why many women don’t even feel like they can have a sexuality. Because the role of woman is not to be a a mutual person in a mutual relationship worthy of pleasure, fun and intimacy. But instead, apparently the role of a… Read more »
Good points, Erin. Once a woman feels like she’s no longer really doing it for her husband, her libido will crash. We know that men have impossible expectations of what women are supposed to look like, and after awhile you just think “why bother? Who cares?”. And it just gets worse all the time — it’s no longer enough to have perfect boobs and a perfect ass, now you have to have your pubic hair ripped out with hot wax and get surgery on your genitals to make sure they are the “correct” size and shape. Many women start to… Read more »
I see. You don’t feel you’re sexy anymore, and that’s your man’s fault because there are prettier women in the world than you. So rather than do something to improve your relationship with your man, who married you and loves you even though you’re not a porn model, you’re going to hate on all men because we think pretty women are pretty. And patriarchy, and misogyny, and photoshop, and brazilian waxes, and seventy cents on the dollar. Right. Good luck with that.
Scott, I don’t even think you’re trying to understand or take our opinions seriously. YOu don’t have to agree with me, and you clearly don’t. But what do you think your accomplishing by mocking us for having them? You really think that’s going to endear us to listen to your point of view? What motivation does a woman have for Improving her relationship with her man if he is always lusting over al the women he doesn’t have? Why do you seem to think that improving the relationship is jsut the woman’s job? Isn’t that for both the man and… Read more »
“far too many couples have traded affluence and vertical climbing for love and intimacy.” wow really interesting way of putting it. I totally agree. intimacy isn’t something you can buy. but we seem to think so for some strange reason.
Thanks. I’ve seen this happen so often to the detriment of a marriage and children. I knew a couple once whose son was diagnosed with ADHD, but I really think the issue was that he wasn’t getting any attention. He was rowdy, unfocused, mischievous, etc. and the majority of the problem was the lack of active parenting. I’m no therapist, but I have two sons and I see the potential for what can happen when they grow up with little guidance and affirmation.
@Emily I’m in an “unequal” marriage and our love life has absolutely zip, zero, zilch, nada to do with who is working and who is being paid more. It actually has more to do with an intimate connection that is about what is going on INSIDE our home. Work is what we (my wife and I) so we can have the lives we want… it doesn’t define us or our relationship. You’re right that we need to make a place for each other as equals in this world. That is truth! But the corporate position a man or woman holds,… Read more »
@tshaka_zulu: I appreciate knowing your view, but since we aren’t hearing from your wife at the same time I don’t know if she shares your view that inequality is having no effect on your sex or love life. I don’t really follow the metaphor about the hammer. I am not interested in hammers; I’m interested in homes that have well thought-out structures and people in them who have adult economic autonomy and adult relationship skills. The “hammer” you may feel is that you’re unwilling to give up your privilege in your home and so just my suggestion of it sounds… Read more »
Lol. Predictable. I figured you’d say that. No, my wife isn’t speaking here and I’m not going to trouble her to chime in to prove my point. This is just the interwebz and I don’t know you so the need to lie to make a point is, well, pointless. I said what I meant and mean what I said, with no pretense or illusion. My point with the hammer was this… you stated, and I’m paraphrasing here, that men and women who are in equal marriages may have better marriages. It would appear that you’re focusing too much on the… Read more »
Cosmo for men. Hee, hee. I can’t relate.
I am guessing that men who are in unequal marriages (woman does more unpaid work, including with children; man is primary earner and his career is more important than any paid work she does) are likely having much more difficulty with so-called “gender differences” AND poor sex lives or “passion” lives. It’s been well documented by Michael Kimmel, Stephanie Coontz, etc. that the more equal a marriage is, the longer it lasts and the more and better sex the couple has. The frequency may not be as great as someone like Tiger Woods or Dominique Strauss-Kahn apparently thinks is worthwhile,… Read more »
Great post and great reply omgchronicles. I agree with your “I think many women would LOVE sex if it was GOOD sex…”
In my experience sex is very much a matter of “Use it or lose it”.
Here’s what I have observed; there are many women who are (pick one or all): — way too tired from juggling work and family — unhappy with their own body image (major sex deterrent) — no longer attracted to their hubby, especially if he’s out of shape — angry at their hubby (too many reasons to list; see “Mad at Dad” http://www.mommytracked.com/mad-at-dad-watercooler — feeling the call of the hormone; preimenopause and menopause changes things, BIG time — struggling with “who am I?” once the kids leave for college — never liked sex from the beginning but “obliged” and now feel,… Read more »
Vicki all fair and good points. Just think that with men who are in love with their wives and want to be closer there should be some way to make that possible. Obviously its impossible to generalize from a limited number of people to the whole world, but I was just surprised by the words coming out of these guys mouths. Surprised in a refreshing, optimistic way like maybe, just maybe us guys are waking up to what is important and its really the same thing that might be stereotypically valued by women.
I think you are right on with #s 1 and 2. I know I would be in the mood a lot more often if my husband made me feel beautiful & helped (in so far as he is able) keep stress levels manageable. Women are constantly bombarded with messages that we are not beautiful enough, thin enough, busty enough, whatever enough & that shit takes its toll after a while. Sometimes we need the men in our lives to remind us that they find us beautiful and desirable just the way we are.