Like the oped piece in the New York Times laying bare the truth of what happens inside Goldman Sachs, the Ellen Pao sexual harassment lawsuit has broken open an issues simmering just beneath the surface for decades: how do women get treated in the most forward thinking technology firms?
The facts of the case are bizarre enough to warrant repeating.
Ms. Pao, who came to Kleiner with the dream of helping direct such a fund, graduated from Princeton with a degree in electrical engineering. She got a law degree from Harvard and worked for Cravath Swaine & Moore for two years doing international deals. She returned to Harvard for a business degree and worked for a variety of tech companies, including BEA Systems and Tellme Networks. Her geek cred is pretty unassailable.
In 2005, she came to Kleiner as a junior partner, working as chief of staff to John Doerr. He was one of the main evangelists who shaped the modern Internet, a geek’s geek who became a billionaire. But, unlike many here, money never seemed his primary goal.
Ms. Pao’s role was to help Mr. Doerr identify investments, interview executives and write speeches.
According to the suit, her troubles began almost immediately when another junior partner, Ajit Nazre, made inappropriate sexual advances. Eventually, the complaint says, Ms. Pao “succumbed to Mr. Nazre’s insistence on sexual relations on two or three occasions.” When she put an end to the relationship, it says, he “started a consistent pattern of retaliation against her.” This went on for five years, it contends.
The harassment part of the suit pales in comparison to the retaliation part, which blends into an allegation of a general effort to keep women in their place. Kleiner, Ms. Pao’s lawsuit says, discriminated against her and other women “by failing to promote them comparably to men, by compensating them less than men through lower salary, bonus and carried interest, by restricting the number of investments that women are allowed to make as compared to men.”
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—Lawsuit Shakes Foundation of a Man’s World of Tech, NYT
Fair enough. If true, the behavior is clearly wrong.
But just as a side note, Ellen Pao is married to Alphonse Fletcher Jr., known as “Buddy”. Buddy owns four units in the famous Dakota building in New York City. He was also until recently the President of the Coop board of that building. Prior to marrying Ms. Pao, Buddy lived in the units with his longtime boyfriend Hobart V. Fowlkes.
Buddy is currently suing the board of the Dakota, the same board of which he is President, for racial discrimination because he is black he claims that is the deciding factor in the board failing to approve his purchase of a fifth unit to provide space for his child with Ms. Pao. The board says he just doesn’t have the money.
To cap it off workmen have accused Buddy, in 2003 and 2006, of sexual harassment of the same variety Ms. Pao is claiming occurred in Silicon Valley, on man on man.
I realize that a rape is a rape is a rape. The circumstances don’t matter. And the same is true of sexual harassment. Still, the back story certainly does impact the perceived credibility of the witness, whether we like it or not. If nothing else, Ms. Pao’s life choices can be characterized as less than common.
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I certainly think the Pao story forces us to rethink gender and technology, whether we like it or not. My view is that is very healthy. There are still way too many nooks and crannies in our society where we don’t talk about gender, sexual harassment (of both genders), and the need for a level playing field where human beings can reach their potential at work and at home.
Just a few things that I would like to note having zero personal knowledge of the people involved in the lawsuit but having worked in media and technology now for 25 years, including 12 years as the managing partner of a venture firm.
The first is that technology in general and the web in particular is an amazingly democratic force for good. In the end no matter who you know, who tries to screw you over, and what you say about how good you are the proof is in the numbers. Second by second you can see with your own eyes with total objectivity whether a good idea is a good idea. Facebook, Twitter, Google, eBay, Yahoo all created huge market power not because of who started them but because massive numbers of people found them useful. I would say that in many cases, Facebook being a prime example, the power of the tool was so great that users overlooked how much they hated the founder behind it.
So I discount the idea that there is some male club that has a strangle hold over good ideas on the web and will rape and pilage any woman who gets out of line. That is not to say that there are many, many important relationships with venture firms, with other successful technology companies, and with just powerful people that influence success. And those might be dominated by men in a way that is unfair. But I would argue that just as rape is rape is rape, when it comes to the web traffic is traffic is traffic. Success is very clearly defined and gender just doesn’t enter into that equation.
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There is the obvious success of women like Sheryl Sandberg at Facebook, Carly Fiorina at HP, and Meg Whitman at eBay. But that certainly doesn’t mean that the leadership of technology firms and technology investment firms don’t continue to be dominated by men. They do. But I just wanted to share my own personal experience.
My partner and CFO of my venture firm, arguably the most crucial person in determining our success or failure over the 12 year life of the fund, was a woman. An employee of our firm was a recent Stanford business school grad. She helped me on well over a dozen deals inside the fund format. Over time she became my most trusted advisor. Since closing the doors on the firm, I have continued to make very significant investments in media and technology for my own account often in messy and complex situations. I have one person I trust to have my back in the trenches of those deals. The Stanford grad with whom I have worked for well over a decade now. She’s the mom of three little kids and works on her own schedule. But when the chips are down I know she will get the job done.
Finally, the CEO of this very site, a technology driven forum for a discussion about manhood, is a woman. At the end of the day the gender of the leader is irrelevant, in my opinion, in the face of such an important mission. Yes we need compelling male voices. Yes it’s important to have a male editor in chief. But in terms of building a vibrant community and business, that is a challenge without a gender.
All of which is to say that at least in my tiny sample of living and breathing the venture capital and technology world I have gravitated towards women as having a unique point of view and unique strengths. It very well might be just the individual women I met in my work life. But I think it’s worth pondering whether there is something not just equal but better that women bring to the conversation of what will work when it comes to the web and technology. Obviously, it is all about results. And everyone involved is looking for that thing which all the overs has missed.
Truth be told the Pao lawsuit is too messy for me to even get my arms around, or care much about. But the underlying issues of gender in the workplace, specially the technology-driven workplace is a topic we should all be thinking and talking about a lot more than we are.
This isn’t a story about the technology industry. This woman is a lawyer and a businesswoman who worked on the administrative side of a large company alongside other business school graduates. The people who have the golden parachutes and are coming in to set the culture of these companies are not STEM majors. This story might as well have been written about Goldman Sachs or, hell, Disney, where Meg Whitman, CEO of Hewlett Packard, came from. To say that women business grads don’t get the choice promotions to the top executive positions of these firms is masking the even greater… Read more »
How do we achieve gender-neutral workstaffs in an industry that’s traditionally male-dominated on a 10:1 ratio, and were the educational system still pours out male engineers on a 3:1 ratio?
This might come across as a sexist approach to make a decision in any business, except when it comes to big money gaming the final approval of a new game in all levels of the gaming industry that I know of basically no female opinions are considered artistic or otherwise plus there is a unspoken age limit on top but it usually start at 9 years old & goes up. (due to the customer base) especially on certain games targeted for adult males.
The thing is, though, the majority of gamers are actually like 18-40 years old and gamers are about 50/50 when it comes to men and women. I think the perception is that it’s a mostly-male industry, but that’s no longer the reality.
The gamer group as a whole might be fairly even split. But IME, most individual games have quite a gender-bias towards either end of the spectrum.
I work for what I consider one of the most forward thinking technology firms in the world. We aren’t a body shop ala Lockheed, Northrop, etc. We actually invent/create technology.
Women occupy some of the highest offices in the company. For instance, the GM of the $600M business until I belong to is a woman, as are several of her direct reports.
I work in the banking industry and many of the last high end management hires have been women.
“I’ve found men to be vastly more technically sound than the women in the industry.” REALLY? I honestly think that kind of flat statement of general truth about gender is dangerous. I have known a ton of women who were far more gifted technically than I am. Admittedly that isn’t say that much as I would say I am a numbers guy not a bits and bites guy at heart. But still. I don’t think we can make any categorical statements about men and women in technology or science or anything else without getting a heap of trouble since it… Read more »
Tom, some of what John is observing is supported by the research [1] http://www.human.cornell.edu/hd/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=55945 The key points are: Ability: The ratio of men to women is 2 to 1 in the most gifted group (the top one percent). But the ratio of male to female math professors is 4 or 5 to 1. So ability cannot explain why there aren’t more women in math intensive professions. Discrimination: Women are not discriminated against when they look for math intensive jobs. Women’s preferences and choices: Women prefer becoming medical doctors or veterinarians instead of mathematicians or engineers. Women also opt out of… Read more »
“I honestly think that kind of flat statement of general truth about gender is dangerous.” It could be, but it can also spark a dialogue of why that is. Sometimes people get caught up in what is PC and really do others a disservice. I can’t make the statement that men commit suicide at about four times the rate of women because I’m gendering suicide, but this statement will hopefully result in our re-evaluating our suicide prevention strategies to determine why it is failing men. I don’t think that there is a biological reason why men are more technically sound… Read more »
Gotta add my buck twenty five to this one. My wonderful glorious sweetie is a former member of this profession. She was a programmer, an IT person (still was until recently), and network admin. She decided to get out. Why? The environment is part of it, as she worked with social rejects whom society (read pro-women or gender equality types) has no interest in helping out as shown by the responses to other social rejects on another post (the one about boys, video games and porn). The business kinda sucked (as she said, she hated having her employer go under… Read more »
He could mean the men are more INTERESTED in technology and thus are more technically sound from practice and study, whilst women are more interested in the art/creativity side.
That is part of it and I think it’s legitimate to ask why that is. I’m not against active outreach, but you shouldn’t force someone into the technical side against their will to make a political point, or mentoring, but like I said you can’t force someone to be a mentor. They have to choose it. Women also drop out more to raise families. If you don’t keep your skills up, you’ll fall behind.
I think what Tom was objecting to, and to which I co-sign, is the problem with saying, “because more men do X men are inherently better at X.” Women can are as skilled with technology as men, but clearly our concentrations differ. Whether that’s due to interests, sexism, or whatever, is ambiguous at best. Any attempts to prescribe an authoritative answer seem to be ultimately fall prey to their own brand of gender stereotyping. Essentially we need to watch ourselves, to differentiate between the context of reality and our personal observations; between noticing differences along gender lines, and prescribing gender… Read more »
Zek
Your small partisan survey seems to corroborating the finding of the densely sourced, high quality study – that women drop out of tenure at higher rates.
Eoghan, I have to laugh that you call the study a “small partisan survey” when it’s in fact a sincere academic analysis of the factors which contribute to women (and men) dropping out of tenure track which have more to do with external pressures than with family planning or unfounded biologic differences. Regardless, either you didn’t actually read the study or you didn’t understand it if you believe it corroborates your lay opinion. Even the study you yourself cited doesn’t agree with you, since it also shows that women aren’t opting out of tenure but being forced out via circumstances… Read more »
@TM- there is nothing wrong with that statement. He is saying “he” has found men to be more technically sound then women.He was Speaking from his own experience. Had John said “Men are more technically sound” then the statement would become a generalization of the truth. “We” need to be wary of constantly judging what someone says. John was giving an opinion based on his own personal relationships with various technical partners. There was an article on “reading” into what people say and the dangers on GMP. It is often dangerous to keep on the “rose tinted glasses” (Sorry for… Read more »
Tom: REALLY? I honestly think that kind of flat statement of general truth about gender is dangerous. I have known a ton of women who were far more gifted technically than I am. Admittedly that isn’t say that much as I would say I am a numbers guy not a bits and bites guy at heart. But still. I don’t think we can make any categorical statements about men and women in technology or science or anything else without getting a heap of trouble since it is very likely to boomerang right back on what it is that men can’t… Read more »
In my 25 years in the industry, I’ve found men to be vastly more technically sound than the women in the industry. The women tend to gravitate toward the “artsier” aspects of the industry, image and video manipulation, graphic design, and web page development. Men tend to do the hard core back end stuff like computer programming or engineering. I had no interest in computer hacking or security, but I dated a security specialist for a time and wanted to be able to talk to her on her level. In about a week, I was already at about her level.… Read more »
A woman once complained to a relationship specialist that her husband doesn’t open up to her. The relationship specialist told her to think of it like foreplay. She has to get him comfortable and in the mood to talk. She should start out talking about things he’d like to talk about. It’s off-topic, but I just want to point out that this is excellent advice. Although I have seen the question/narrative/complaint about the husband who doesn’t open up a lot of time, this is the first time I’ve seen a response/advice which doesn’t imply that the man is somehow at… Read more »
John, maybe I am reading you the wrong way but your post has the hairs on my arm standing up. Are you saying because the technology field is male dominated, women need to make men feel more comfortable with their female presence by just going along with whatever men decide is good work bonding or conversation?” Granted, I don’t think running to HR with every little offense is the answer, but shouldn’t men and women work to make each other feel more comfortable? If a field is more male dominated, isn’t it up to the men in that field to… Read more »
Probably be more aware of that stuff happening and thus it’s a reason why they may be less welcoming of women. Don’t think he meant to say women need to do what men say, just to be aware women because of the gender can cause discomfort in male dominated areas (prob same in reverse too). Also possibly he means give them space, try ignore the bullshit banter that goes on vs causing a major stink. There should be a happy medium though, but getting there will be a slow process and probably needs to be slow enough that it doesn’t… Read more »
No he is not saying women should make men comfortable; merely recognize that their presence may make men initially uncomfortable like any situation involving individuals and that each side will need time to adjust, so expect some awkwardness. Give each other the benefit of the doubt as to malicious intent and give everyone a chance to adjust. Know what cannot be changed and what can and know the difference and develop a strategy for success. In technical fields people are initially cool toward one another until they know if the person is technically competent or a wanna be – in… Read more »
@ sweetsue “In technical fields people are initially cool toward one another until they know if the person is technically competent or a wanna be – in short to be accepted it is necessary to prove you are competent and capable. In the technical field skills and competence matter and actions speak louder than words.” I did think about this and I’m ashamed to say that I didn’t mention it because that sometimes leads to bullying when people take a competitive approach to it. I’ve heard guys talk “smack” to other techs before. I’ve even engaged in that myself early… Read more »
SweetSue, I am in agreement with you regarding your first paragraph. Your second paragraph is an interesting insight. You made the comment that the “dominant culture sets the rules and the tone; fair or not, like it or not it is fact.” I agree with this as well. Which is actually the reason why I think the dominant culture also holds more of the responsbility. They are the ones that are going to have the greatest cause and affect based on how they behave. It’s not going to be the minority. And if the minority feels powerless, they will use… Read more »
The reason I was agreeing with her was because I didn’t want to leave the impression that the situation is fair or ideal, just that there needs to be give and take on both sides. The idea seems lost that when guys modify their behavior in front of their female coworkers that is a concession to their coworker’s feelings. Again it may not be ideal and it isn’t a negotiated response, but they are trying at least in most cases. I won’t rule out passive aggressive behavior in others. I’m just going from my experience.
Information technology is fairly new. In my first help desk job, the company I was working for offered their customer service personnel, all women, an opportunity to work in their new technical support desk. They faced a huge skills shortage so they brought me in as the technical guy. Basically I was level 2 support and did the heavy lifting, but, my social skills having just graduated from college were not great, so they hired a female manager (who reported to a female manager) to smooth things out. Once they brought a nudie mag and they gathered to look at… Read more »
@ Erin Sweetsue said it very well. The one thing I would add is I think that part of the disagreement stems from how we view the dynamic of a conversation. You’re probably thinking that if we’re talking about Wing Commander, we’ll limit our conversation to game play. Conversations though are live and can tangent or segue into other areas. Discussing Wing Commander’s characters could lead to discussing Ginger Lynn, a porn actress who appears in some clips, and could theoretically tangent to other things. If guys are afraid that if they accidentally cross a line they can’t uncross it,… Read more »
I understand what Sue is saying but it sounds all very “boys club” to me regardless and I think that is what sits wrong with me. I’m not going to get into the discussion anymore then this because in general, I’m tired of men’s obession with all things porn and hot babes. So it’s hard for me to relate because it seems like even at work, this is just another way women have to put up with bullcrap. Especially if you work in an industry that you described. However, I am sure there are many women who get into that… Read more »
John, I think you’re fighting a losing battle. You have to remember that for some, anything involving male sexuality (interests, activities, discussion etc.), that isn’t female approved is oppressive and wrong. I don’t know that there is much point in talking about it. BTW, with respect to your situation in the service centre, no one cares if you had a hostile environment and that you were excluded from the ladies club (talking about women’s underwear, going to ladies night and bringing in their porn). You could try a sexual harassment lawsuit, but I’m not sure that would get you any… Read more »
That’s not fair Wet One. Isn’t this site about all of us being open about how we think and feel on any different subject? Shouldn’t that be something that’s open to men and to women? Do you know many things get said on this site that make me feel like women are getting defecated on? All I am saying is for me, is that when men primiarly talk about women in terms of their sexuality only and overtly, it does feel oppressive to me. That might not be the case for other women but it is the case for me.… Read more »
@ Erin “I felt oppressed in those environments as well and often tried to chip in with some positive comments or reasons why these things might happen while trying to get them to see the male point of view (the best I could from my understanding of the male point of view).” You did everything short of actually telling them that they were wrong. Yes men do that. Yes, Men are that, but they also do this (” often tried to chip in with some positive”). Yes men do that. Yes men are that, but maybe they’re that way because… Read more »
Thanks Tom. This is an important discussion. I can’t stress enough how much I agree with this statement: “The first is that technology in general and the web in particular is an amazingly democratic force for good.” — Knowledge is indeed power, and knowledge gets shared over the internet. — The “old boys’ network” is just “the network”. — There is more access to connections, people in power, investors, thought leaders than ever before. Very few people have access to everyone. But I believe everyone now has access to people who can help them. — You can see results. Everyone… Read more »