There is no such thing as the friendzone. But it took Greg Simms Jr. a long time to learn that. Here’s how he escaped the concept of the ‘zone.
If you’ve read any of my pieces for the GMP recently, you know that I’ve tried to explain the behavioral DNA of American “typical” males. I know that many of this website’s male readers are socially advanced and very bright. Many of our faithful fellas live outside of the box that is normal American manhood, and that’s a wonderful thing.
But, some of our dudes are regular (for lack of a better word) guys.
And I’m one of them.
As a man who leans towards the more typical end of the man-spectrum, I can tell you that I’ve had to unlearn a ton of old man-beliefs and teachings in the past few years. Not only due to my position as a writer/editor for this webpage, but also because of recent sweeping social changes. And, it hasn’t been easy. I’ve documented my upbringing and past before, so I won’t go there again. However, I will divulge one particular nugget from my yesteryears.
I used to be Mr. Friendzone.
I lived in the friendzone.
(Tangent. Can we all agree to give props at least ONCE to Chris Rock, who coined the term “friendzone” in his classic stand up special Bring The Pain in 1996? Tangent over.)
I now know there is no such thing as the friendzone. It’s a fallback word for a guy who’s frustrated when a particular woman (or women) that he’s attracted to doesn’t feel the same way. No matter how many complements, flowers, or cards he may give her.
But, I believed in the friendzone. Because I was taught the same thing that many men are taught by their fathers, sometimes mothers, and society in general.
Be a gentleman.
Actually, be a gentleman, and the woman I was being a gentleman to, would melt, fall in love with me, Disney music would cue, and she would be mine forever. Just because I was a gentleman. And, if the girl I was Prince Charm-ing didn’t fall for me, surely, there was something profoundly wrong with her.
I was taught that, and I’m betting, in some form or fashion, so was Elliot Roger.
As a 41 year old man, I know that old school, archaic concept is some bullshit. Just because a man is nice to a woman, doesn’t entitle her to like him. At all.
But, as a young man who had it drilled into my head that the Meek Shall Inherit The Booty, I had no idea that the concept of “Me, nice guy. You, have my babies” was wrong. For years. And when the concept of the friendzone was introduced to pop culture (Thanks, Chris), I was convinced I’d be a resident of “the zone” for the rest of my days. I thought I was going to be the mayor of the friendzone.
I’m not, and never will be an Elliot Roger sympathizer. It’s more than obvious he was a very disturbed (and evil) young man. But I do sympathize with men, especially young men who grew up learning the same thing I did. It took me a while to learn that I had to treat women as individuals, not as objects to be won. It was a struggle to realize that the best thing for me to be in the company of a woman was to be myself, warts and all. If only because at the end of the day, if I did end up dating said woman, than I was going to have to accept and possibly love her, warts and all.
If anything, now is a time of unlearning for many guys. Roger’s horrible crimes have sparked furious debate, outrage, and several kinds of societal examination from women and men. Men, in particular, can, and should, unlearn the dating, social rules of old, and learn new ways of interaction with women.
For any men out there who may be on the fence about hopping aboard the progress train, know this. It’s the same train that’s leaving the friendzone, and it’s never going back.
Trust me, life is so much better outside of the ‘zone.
Photo i5prof Flickr
There is a friendzone, deny it all you want but the term exists for a reason. There are multiple forms, one is simply unrequited love and non-harmful in intent. This is the type most women will talk about and I agree that this shouldn’t be referred to as the friendzone. There is the type though that does exist, the one where some women will lead a guy on, be overly touchy feely and blur the lines between friendship and dating. Some women do it because they are naive and don’t realize what they’re doing, but some do it because they… Read more »
Thank you Archy. There is some nuance to the argument that get’s lost for bumper sticker reactions. No one is guaranteed anything. No one should be led to believe there is more going on than there is either.
Since when is “being a gentleman” showering someone in complements, flowers, or cards, just to get something in return?
I was always kind, attentive and helpful to my friends. And I still am. And I have the scars to prove it.
Women are not objects to be won. And not men either, for that sake.
But I never went on a date until I realized that her interest is.
If most relationships started as friendship, they may have better chances of lasting. That is not to say that all friendships with a man will end up in romance, but sometimes it is good to just give a guy a chance by being his platonic friend; He may surprise us.
Questions… Why would one NOT be a gentleman at all times if that is what one truly is? Does it occur to a man what a woman wants or is he too driven by his own needs, wants, desires that he only considers those and attempts to tailor the trap to catch the prey? Or perhaps she is not looking for anything no matter how attractive and single she may be, perhaps a friendship is all that is important or necessary to her. Man can apply all the techniques he can come up with to a rock, same outcome if… Read more »
I was raised to be a gentleman (“raised up proper” as my grandfather would say) and I was taught that being a gentleman meant being kind, compassionate, polite, forbearing, and reasonable. The point behind cultivating these behaviors is not to get something out of it. You behave this way because it is a moral and correct way to behave. Being a gentleman is something you do first and foremost for yourself: that these behaviors can gain loyal friends and the respect and admiration of those in your community are added bonuses but not the end in and of itself. A… Read more »
I remember asking women what makes a man attractive. Every time women describe the “nice guy”. I suspect that women put a lot more credence on looks, etc. They just won’t tell us because they think that makes them look shallow. Anyway, there’s nothing wrong with being a woman’s friend as long as she’s your friend as well. Sex isn’t the only thing women can provide. If you’re in any one way relationship, it’s smart to get out unless there are extreme circumstances. If you’re only interested in sex, the best way to know whether she’s interested in you, is… Read more »
Since when is accepting a date leading someone on?
When her motivation is getting a free meal or watching a movie for free, etc. and she’s not interested in him.
My best advice to give is don’t pay too much attention to what a woman SAYS she is attracted to, but look at the types of guys she IS attracted to. So many said that women love nice guys, but they aren’t saying what else they want.
Then you need to realize everyone is different, some like jerks, some like nice guys.
Being a gentleman isn’t bullshit. Being a gentleman and expecting sex to fall out (to use Andrews turn of phrase) is. If I had to use the term friendzone it would mean to me a level of intimacy that both parties are comfortable with. If you want more then tough, you have no right to anything more than the other person wishes to give. Saying that I know a lot of men are in the friendzone simply because they haven’t declared their interest in a deeper relationship to the lady in question. Yes sometimes when your in the friendzone you… Read more »
Totally disagree with Maria. Every man I’ve ever fallen in love with and had a relationship with has been my friend first. I personally need that unpressured atmosphere that is friendship to really get to know a guy. That’s not to say that every man I’ve been friends with is someone I’d be attracted to but definitely some of them are. This whole ” friendship zone” thing is so bullshit. I absolutely loathe when guys look so devastated when I refer to them as a friend. It’s a GOOD thing! And it’s downright insulting to think that some guys think… Read more »
As a woman who has placed quite a few men in the “friend zone” this article is way off! Some guys just aren’t “do it” material. They may be nice, or kind, or smart, or whatever attribute that makes them pleasant to be around; but there is an innate quality/mixture that’s needed to transition out of friendship into a dating partner or bed fellow. I’m no great beauty nor pompous, but there are some really nice guys on my Facebook page that have tried every angle to date me, but sadly and unknown to me they are stuck in the… Read more »
^^ clearly a dude ^^
It’s not your fault, but what a bunch of baloney. You’ve been programmed in some way or another, or you’re just unable to think outside of whatever box you live in. Have you ever met those guys from your fb page that want to date you? If so, have you let the chemistry develop, or just immediately wrote him off because there wasn’t a ‘spark’? What most people do, and I hear this from many women, is they make snap decisions on a person from minutely small nuances. The funny thing is they sit around and say things like ‘oh… Read more »
The other fundamental – that you seem to have grasped, Greg – is to look at what being a ‘gentleman’ really means.
At the heart of it, it means being respectful, and polite, and considerate.
So if you’re being a ‘gentleman’ just to get some payback in the form of getting laid, then you’re doing it wrong, women will see right through you in an instant, and they will run a mile.
We should redefine the term. Friendzone is when you are good to people and then they are your friends! Although I do expect any rich friends to pick up the check there are minimal expectations of friends.
Replace “being nice” with being an asshole as some PUA guys try to do it, or most young guys now and you have pretty much the same thing too, just the opposite side of the same coin. Ever heard that term “nice guys finish last.” I think that’s the motto a lot of young guys are drilling into their heads now, because being nice never worked for them. They don’t realize it is basically the SAME thing as being overtly nice, just on the other end of the spectrum. The key point here is that treating it like a “game”… Read more »
It can be hard to move away from thinking that is counterproductive. Thank you for your candid thoughts on your journey.
No problem 🙂
Truth. Women are not machines where you insert kindness and sex falls out.
This is possibly the best comment, ever. Ever. Here’s the key to the internet.
LoL agreed
THIS!!!