So, apparently we’ve moved! Fuck, I have to stop taking a vacation now and actually post. My life is so haaaaaaaard.
GMPers, you may not know much about me. I’m Ozy Frantz! I’m the person who posts most often on NSWATM. I swear a lot, I’m a college student, I’d call myself a radical feminist except all the radical feminists have disowned me, and I am way too geeky for my own good or for the good of people who don’t want posts to occasionally be illustrated with pictures of Matt Smith. We have a couple of other posting-type people, all of whom are awesome, and one of whom is the fabulous Noah Brand, current Editor-in-Chief of the GMP.
Our comment policy is right over here. Short version: if your comment annoys me, I will delete it. Disagreement is fine! Debate is fine! Criticism is fine! I love disagreement and debate and criticism and have often changed my mind because of such. But if you’re being a stupid fuckhead then I will delete your comment, and then I will read it out loud to my friends in my best Fluttershy voice. So don’t be a stupid fuckhead, or if you do then be a stupid fuckhead in a way that isn’t even remotely funny when read in Fluttershy voice.
I’m still trying to figure out where all the new buttons are, so comments may languish in moderation for a while or I may miss something horrible that someone said. Shoot me a Tweet or an email (ozyfrantz at gmail dot com) if that happens. Or if you just want to chat. I answer all my email.
Congratulations on joining the Good Men Project! I subscribe to your RSS feed, and now it is only showing brief summaries. Since I read on my phone when I am without internet connection, this merely entices me 🙁 Any chance you can can get your feed to show full-stories again?
Thanks.
“Welcome GMPers!” And goodbye NSWATM. First, I loved the NSWATM layout, with the “Latest comments” list on the side, the chronological comments where you don’t have to scan the whole list to see what’s new, the automatic avatars, etc. Gone. And the climate. I’ve been down this road before. There are more blogs and discussion boards, where the mere mentioning of non-male-performing and its subsequent problems will immediately get you stonewalled by regurgitation of feminist theory and shame-blame-game, than you can shake a stick at. I felt that NSWATM was past that, and (for the most part) had an atmosphere… Read more »
First, I loved the NSWATM layout, with the “Latest comments” list on the side, the chronological comments where you don’t have to scan the whole list to see what’s new, the automatic avatars, etc.
The additional to GMP of a ‘latest comments’ list, and the option of reading threads either in nested or chronological form would be great. I dont know how much coding it would need, especially with the archive
I must say that I’m not too fond of this new site for some reason.
Wow, had to install an ad blocker AND flash blocker in order to even begin reading anything (started using Chrome, so I guess it was really just a matter of time anyway). Sorry, Ozy, but I guess I won’t be contributing to your girlfriend’s petticoat fund. :T And yeah, wow the comments, while not rage-inducing like there are elsewhere on GMP, a lot of them definitely have that vibe. I think I’ll definitely be lurking at best. If any of the old NSWATM regulars are interested in still talking with me for… whatever reason, I guess, then here’s my tumblr:… Read more »
I thought my computer was broken because everytime I clicked on NSWATM’s old address I ended up here.
I’m blaming you for this 😛
@OirishM That’s actually quite annoying! And especially that I can’t link my blog to NSWATM anymore. It just links to the GMP front page. Blog link duly removed.
Interesting…I’ve linked to NSWATM without any trouble. Actually, my old link just redirects to the new NSWATM page. Hmmmmmm
Hmmmm indeed 😕
I tried making it https://goodmenproject.com/category/noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz/
but it just reverted to GMP 😕
This is from a Blogger blog btw
That’s weird. The only workaround I can think of (assuming you still want to link to NSWATM) is to continue to link to the WordPress blog, which redirects to NSWATM-on-the-GMP.
The link was to the WordPress blog, but Blogger (or something) switched it to the GMP homepage rather than the NSWATM subpage. Trying to reestablish it doesn’t make any difference.
But I don’t really want to link to GMP anyway. My own browser bookmark works, so I can get here direct myself if and when.
Yeah, my link is from a blogger blog too. Sorry I can’t be of any help, except to say that it’s working for me. So really I’m probably just a source of frustration rather than help. 🙂
Julie Gillis said “I wonder if it’s scared because people seem to know a dissenting opinion will create verbal commenting chaos in backlash?” Hello, I’m a compulsive reader and somewhat regular commenter on NSWATM since about 6 months. First of all, I resent the term “scared of”, because I feel it’s a term that’s been kidnapped and is commonly used by certain branches of “hostile” feminism/feminists to alienate and denigrate men who don’t (always) agree with them. Second. What I want from a discussion is the personal touch, people sharing their stories and experiences. What I DON’T want is discussion… Read more »
Lux: However, I *don’t* support rights and awareness of “males” as a group per se, because I believe that males, as a *group*, are pretty much the opposite of marginalised and have *plenty* of rights already and *way* too much awareness. I have to disagree with that if for no other reason the opposition that comes up now when people try to talk about such men in such topics. I’ve been struggling with my body image for years and when I brought my struggle online some of the biggest opposition (in fact only opposition) came from women and feminists. I’m… Read more »
“a rare breed? I’m fortunate enough to have many, many men around me who are feminists, even when some of them don’t use that word. It’s not a rare breed in my environment, although it is a somewhat rare breed in society, unfortunately”” Not how it works. A man is a feminist if HE says so, regardless of what you or anyone else claims about him. Only a very small percentage of men claim to be feminists. When asked, the vast majority say NO. They are intelligent enough to know whether they want to be or not. And the vast… Read more »
There are lots of people I’d consider feminists who don’t identify as such, many of them because of incorrect and misleading ideas about what feminism is, drawn either from our sexist society or a few feminists who give the sensible people a bad name. But if you’re in support of reproductive rights, ending abuse and rape, lesbian rights, the Equal Rights Amendment, ending the pay gap, etc., I’m not sure in what meaningful sense you count as “not a feminist.”
I was about to reply exactly that, but you worded it much better than I could have, thank you Ozy. I would like to add that I’ve seen many women claim not to be feminist — the word is so loaded and has so many negative connotations that many shy away from using it even though they are in support of equal rights for people of any gender.
Is this form of feminism pretty much the all inclusive egalitarianism/equalism style? I see lots of egalitarians, even those who call themselves feminist, but I wouldn’t call all of them feminists as the feminism label itself seems to mean multiple things. This is just a personal observation, you can see why I find it confusing when you read some of the articles by Jasmine on the GMP and others who say “MY feminism does/believes X”. Some people might think I am feminist, but I don’t want to be labelled as such as the label brings judgment and often leads to… Read more »
You realize that you don’t have the right to choose other people’s labels for them or the authority to define a term for society as a whole?
But if you’re in support of reproductive rights, ending abuse and rape, lesbian rights, the Equal Rights Amendment, ending the pay gap, etc., I’m not sure in what meaningful sense you count as “not a feminist.” In the meaningful sense of “I don’t want to identify with that label”. I know you don’t mean to sound like it Ozy but this kinda sounds like you’re trying to nonchalantly declare that no one has any business saying they are not a feminist. Just like with most other labels there are perfectly valid reasons for one saying they are not a feminist.… Read more »
Ozy doesn’t need my defense, but I’d like to list some of the things I’ve observed zir write about on NSWATM. -Ozy had continuously written about the way male victims of sexual assault are dismissed or ridiculed. -Zie has frequently written about the Success Myth. -Zie has written sensitively about Nice Guyism and concluded that there can be Nice Girls. -Zie has frequently written on male body issues. -Zie has stood up against the idea that men are brutes with no self control when it comes to sex. I think this is important to point out because I think it’s… Read more »
Should some of the contributors here introduce themselves (as in posting a short profile of their history and views) and a label next to their name (ie., MRA, Rad Fem, etc.)? It seems sometimes the arrows keep flying from two extreme ends of the spectrum and I think the two ends will never meet…I understand there is a lot of anger and past grievances that people want to express, but I want to sit somewhere in the middle and have a civilized discussion (heart to heart, if that’s possible) and hear people out [while keeping the tablecloth still white and… Read more »
I am Egalitarian, but I don’t really like labels to be honest. My focus is towards males as I feel there is already a huge amount of female focus feminist and egalitarians vs very very few male, plus I myself am a male and know more on the issues of men than I do of issues for women. I’m still concerned quite a bit for both genders however and hope there is full coverage for both genders.
I’m not sure how well that would go. It’s already bad enough that people start to see red at the first hint of someone being an MRA or feminist adding a label to their name would be more like adding a bullseye.
And that’s before you get into the territory of people who think they can just decide what someone else’s label really is.
I’m an egalitarian. For some definitions of feminism I’m a feminist: I support women’s rights issues advocacy and I agree that gender roles hurt women. But I also maintain that gender roles privilege women in other ways which tends to make many feminists very very angry. For some definitions of masculist I’m also a masculist: I support men’s rights issues advocacy and I very much agree that gender roles hurt men. I also acknowlege the existance of male privilege (in some areas, not all, and in the context of other privileges like class and race) and I really hate the… Read more »
As someone who has read NSWATM for about six months and contributed for the last three, I find it odd that anyone would be scared off by Ozy. Zie is a RadFem, but not in the way that you think. Unless you think Patriarchy= All Men you have nothing to fear. (check out Ozy’s Law, which is pretty right on.)
I agree that Ozy’s Law is one of the greatest pieces about what happens in conversations that prevents real understanding.
@Archy I think it’s mostly what Lux said, don’t really want to ruin my mood. It’s not that I don’t like people questioning this stuff, it’s more that nothing ever really gets solved or even discussed properly in forums, It’s mostly just yelling what you think at another person.
So on that note, I am going to post about Diablo 3 on the open thread.
There is a great deal of tension in comments here. As one of the main mods, I’d be very interested in learning your thoughts on how to shift that into more of a space for dialogue. Please feel free to get in touch with me at [email protected]
Can you link to the D3 thread?
I personally found the debate between feminists and mra’s quite useful, it was how I learned to seperate the groups into individual groups, to see not all mra’s were extremist, n same for feminism. I actually met some great feminists and MRA’s on the GMP. I think the problem would be if one side dominated in numbers, being a male commenting in a 99% female space for instance you can definitely feel unsupported n vice versa.
I’m sorry to hear this. I stopped reading gmp a while ago for various reasons, most importantly because I got sick of the MRA trolls polluting the comments — fwiw, I’m a (mostly) straight, (mostly) cis-gendered male, and no, I’m not at all full of self hatred, thanks. I love reading your stuff, Ozyfrantz, but I’m not sure if I want to risk ruining my mood by accidentally reading the comments on GMP.
So we’re on GMP now! Hello GMP people, please be nice because some of us are terribly scared of the comment section on GMP.
Scared why? It’s interesting to hear scared as many of the GMP commentators are scared on other blogs too:P Might be a great opportunity for both to understand each other n lower their fear?
I wonder if it’s scared because people seem to know a dissenting opinion will create verbal commenting chaos in backlash? I feel that way here at times (GMP) and I am a mod. Imagine how a regular reader feels.
I’m with Julie. The biggest impediments to discussion here at GMP are Pile-ons (a whole bunch of you come in and tell the commenter something they did was wrong, to the point where nobody can barely even find the original position or other commenters’ thoughts. Also, this makes people who want to have a discussion, who’s opinions aren’t of the people in the pile-on’s, feel it’s a lost cause. So while the pile-on works to silence dissenting opinions and make a few people feel they’re very “safe” almost nobody was actually discussed with and therefore able to understand the pile-on’s… Read more »
PS I’m not saying other sites’ commuter’s don’t do this(saying some of you guys do it doesn’t mean others don’t), I’m just telling you all what people at large say about the commenters at GMP, and therefore some of you guys end up being a bunch of people talking amongst yourselves because most people won’t engaged you. And maybe it’s just a few who do that, but those voices are SO prevalent in the comments that people like this NSWATM commenter here, who expressed a real and genuine fear, either won’t read GMP or comment here.
PS I’m not saying other sites’ commuter’s don’t do this(saying some of you guys do it doesn’t mean others don’t), I’m just telling you all what people at large say about the commenters at GMP, and therefore some of you guys end up being a bunch of people talking amongst yourselves because most people won’t engaged you. And maybe it’s just a few who do that, but those voices are SO prevalent in the comments that people like this NSWATM commenter here, who expressed a real and genuine fear, either won’t read GMP or comment here. What makes my soul… Read more »
Julie, I gave up writing at GMP and commenting entirely many months ago for this very reason. I swore that NOTHING would lure me into any conversation at GMP ever again. But thanks to you, your honesty, and your excellent articulation of this issue, I am making a comment. It’s a simple one: What Julie said.
Good luck to you all. GMP is growing and thriving and I wish you all well in this new endeavor.
Thank you for this Joanna. I watch this every day on the comment thread to the point it’s impossible to follow. And guys, I think we get that you value this space as a place to vent about things there are few spaces that allow it. And your safety is important. But so is dialogue and not accusing people who are trying to understand, moving through their own cognitive dissonance about the issues of being misandrist isn’t helping dialogue. And yeah, a lot of threads look like pile ons, drive by commenting, and derail machines. If we really are behind… Read more »
Is pointing out a certain statement/quote is misandrist still fine instead of just calling the commentator misandrist? Maybe have it so commentators can only call a quoted section misandrist, vs saying Eve is misandrist.
Except even then, using a term like ‘misandrist’ or ‘homophobic,’ etc to describe even a person’s statement causes problems, especially when we’re all talking online and without facial expressions and body language to help communicate. I try to avoid those terms altogether, and instead say something about how a statement is “problematic” and explain exactly what I mean by that.
I do use the term “heteronormative” quite a bit, but that is less meant as an insult and more descriptive a term.
AH, I spose I just use the terms as it describes the problem in them. I see misogynist is used extremely commonly in feminist articles and gets the message across nicely. Maybe saying the statement SOUNDS misandrist would be better, without labelling it flatout misandrist?
Yeah that’d be better…though again…using any of those terms is problematic (see what I did there, lol). It really depends on what you want to do with your side of the conversation. If you just want to point out the bigotry (as you perceive it) in another person’s statement or belief, then using a term like ‘misogynist,’ etc, will do that effectively. However, it’ll also pretty effectively shut down the conversation…so the only time to use those terms is when you’re pretty sure any further conversation won’t get anywhere anyway.
I don’t disagree with the above. Many of the pile ons I see are usually of people showing quite a lot of bigotry, but it tends to be in the forms that are the last remaining versions that are acceptable in society (bigotry towards men for instance). On a site for men I find the pile ons are bad, but they have a very valid point in calling out such bigotry, the women fearing men article had quite a few prejudiced views of men for instance and people called out commentators on their prejudiced view. There are of course the… Read more »
Joanna, in fairness, the same thing can be said in the reverse. One of the reasons I do not comment here often is because of the feminist lean of the site and the unspoken demand that men play by feminist rules, especially when it comes to talking about violence against men and boys. I know several men, particularly male survivors, who do not to comment here for that very reason. There have been very anti-male articles posted here, plenty of hostile comments and pile-ons from feminists, and enough feminist rhetoric and name-calling to make it clear to non-feminists and male… Read more »
What Jacobtk said is 100% accurate in my observation, except I try to comment anyway.
By here, do you mean nswatm or the GMP?
I think it probably relates to the broader population of the GMP. The gmp commentators includes masculists, feminists, mras, traditionalists, all kinds of things. It’s a lot more diverse than NSWATM so I guess conflict is more likely.
Radical feminists tend to get a negative associate. By radical feminist do you mean the type that deny men suffer, do not believe sexism can affect men, will gladly use terms like privilege, mansplaining to silence or do you mean more the wiki-style definition of just believing in patriarchy theory? Also are you egalitarian-radical feminist, or gyno-centric? (I presume egalitarian). I just want to know what radical feminism means to you, as it is generally the label applied to the extremists which may cause you to be misidentified to be the radfemhub style, or the highly antagonstic style which many… Read more »
“And to clarify the comment policy, are posts critical of SOME feminism allowed?”
According to the current moderation policy it’s generalisation that isn’t allowed. So “Feminists are man-haters” will end up in the sin bin, but “Some feminists, such as Andrea Dworkin, have openly shown that their ideology focuses on the hatred of men (as exemplified by this quote from her book)” is ok.
And what a surprise, this comment ALSO goes “into moderation.” I’ll be shocked if it ever gets out.
Guess so, what? Is he in charge of all moderation or just his pieces? Are non-radical feminists unwelcome on his pieces only or everywhere?
If he’s in charge of all moderation, then GMP has now advanced from a feminist-leaning site to a radical feminist, which means that average men (like me) are now the unwelcome enemy. And will obviously need to find a new place to hang out.
I’m in charge of moderation of just NSWATM posts. I have no control over any parts of the GMP that don’t have my shiny awesome header on them. I’m also much more of a bell hooks-ish radical feminist than a RadFemHub radical feminist (God forbid).
BTW, my pronoun is zie.
“BTW, my pronoun is zie.”
Was trying to figure out what this Zie stuff was:P
Like I said, ask Ozy or Lisa. Better to get a more immediate response on things, rather than going on about being unwelcome enemies. That’s a bit dramatic, imo. I’d assume that since there are new blogs being fed into GMP many of them will have their own moderators and GMP will also keep their same mods.
Yeah pretty much what Julie and Ozy said. It sounds like the blogs that are combining forces with GMP just have their own moderators. Makes sense…they had their own moderation policy and moderators prior to combing with GMP.
Julie, let us see how many non-feminist blogs get fed into GMP (curious phrasing) before declaring Eric’s response dramatic. There is already a tone on GMP that implies certain male experiences and perspectives are unwelcome. That was heightened last year with the inclusion of a certain individual, and I do not think adding in a radical feminist blog helps matters. It makes GMP look more like a space for feminists, not for men.
Because men can’t be feminists, what?
Well, they can, but very few want to. It’s just like women can be college football players. They exist but are a very rare breed.
rare breed? I’m fortunate enough to have many, many men around me who are feminists, even when some of them don’t use that word. It’s not a rare breed in my environment, although it is a somewhat rare breed in society, unfortunately. I’m a man and a feminist, because I believe in equal rights and opportunities for human beings. I’ll fight to make our society a level playing field for people of any gender (or skin colour, sexual orientation, body type or other human characteristics). I’m a white, (mostly) straight, (mostly) cis-gender, able-bodied male – I didn’t do anything to… Read more »
Lux, thanks for your honest comment. One thing I”m noticing is a lot of mirrors. I see similar comments on both sides of the fence. To me, this indicates a number of dynamics, but it actually gives me some hope. I try my best to be a “both/and” kind of person. I’m a white, cis, feminist with some alternative views on love and romance. I’ve actually learned a great deal here while I’ve been a writer and moderator, and much of that is because I’ve had to do additional work on my own beliefs and views. I don’t agree with… Read more »
As much as “omg what you said” comments are a cliché, I agree with that 100%, well put. I have learned heaps from online discussions, and my own beliefs about social justice, gender, politics and, indeed my own alternative views on love, sex and romance keep evolving. The Internet is a wonderful place for that. I guess when I feel that discussions just keep repeating the 101 stuff, I stop learning, and I tend to stop reading… this happened on GMP and on a few other sites – and you’re right, feminists aren’t automatically right, and I get as tired… Read more »
Hope for GMP financially? Or do you mean because you believe the site is wrong in some way?
The hope I am seeing is less about whether various members of the two blogs agree or not, and more, can they actually listen and learn and find intersectional points where there is agreement.
But you are correct that can’t happen easily if the threads are derailed constantly in either direction.
In any case, glad you are here!
I feel that GMP (especially in the comments) is a little one-sided sometimes. I don’t think you can properly discuss men’s issues in society without discussing gender roles and feminism, and the “feminism is bad for men” sentiment that I sometimes perceive in comment threads doesn’t make sense to me at all. I love reading NSWATM because its articles are dealing with men’s issues *and* feminist at the same time – they are in fact the same thing in many situations. The hope I have is that GMP will be a more diverse place with the inclusion of blogs such… Read more »
I am all about the intersections as well, and have really learned a huge amount here (as a feminist and woman) and think it’s vital to support men. I’m ultimately a humanist idealist though. Not naive by any means, but I refuse to sit at a pole right now. I’d rather figure out what’s outside the poles.
“I’m fortunate enough to have many, many men around me who are feminists, even when some of them don’t use that word.”
If they don’t use the word the aren’t feminists. Men are not so unintelligent that they don’t know whether they are feminists or not. The vast majority of men, when asked, say that they are not feminists.
Right. In similar vain, is someone not racist unless they call themselves racist? Is someone not a philantropist unless they declare themselves to be one? Is someone not an alcoholic unless they realise they are? Is someone not intelligent unless they proclaim this fact? If you answer “no” to these questions, yet maintain that someone is not feminist unless they say they are, then “feminism” must somehow be different from every other -ist and -ism. Like Ozy said elsewhere: “if you’re in support of reproductive rights, ending abuse and rape, lesbian rights, the Equal Rights Amendment, ending the pay gap,… Read more »
Just to swing this around, do you support rights and awareness for males? If so, you’re an MRA. What’s interesting is that some could call you both a feminist and an MRA. Are you ok with being called an MRA?
No, I wouldn’t, because I don’t want to be associated with some people who call themselves MRA who have extremist, misguided and unhealthy views I vehemently disagree with. So, I see what you mean. Someone for whom feminism has such a negative meaning would not like to be associated with that. I just don’t agree with their idea of what feminism is, even acknowledging that there are many, many different kinds of feminism. I’m not sure what it means to support rights and awareness of males. I think it’s important to support men in the sense that society’s mainstream gender… Read more »
I’ve always wondered if in our western countries, like Australia and the US if women actually still had less rights or if feminism was now moving into the “issues” territory, tackling everything apart from actual Law given rights? The only rights difference I see for men in the US is selective service, and coverage under VAWA possibly (Though this is meant to be updated) and reproductive rights for men (financial abortion). In Australia I don’t think there are any actual law differences, but there are plenty of things to combat like boys lagging girls in schools, gender roles, heathcare for… Read more »
You’ll find very few people who disagree with the statement “Women are people too and should have the same rights as any other person.” If that’s the total definition of feminist you want to go with, then sure, why not, I’m a feminist. If you go from there to “therefore women should be given special preferential treatment and/or lowered standards to do things that aren’t already at least 50% women, and possibly even then”, then I stop agreeing. Equality doesn’t mean special explicit systematic privilege for one group. Or perhaps an argument that relies on the assumption of women as… Read more »
Schadrach – very comprehensive comment. Those are among the reasons that the vast majority of women, and even a larger majority of men, when asked if they are feminists, answer with a resounding NO.
Men should not have to be feminists or go through a feminist lens to talk about their experiences and perspectives as men, regardless of whether they can be feminists or not.
And that is agreed upon here at GMP. GMP is a space for ALL to discuss experiences of maleness and masculinity. And that includes male and female voices, masculanist and feminist.
The question becomes, how open to dialogue do we really want to become?
That is one of the aspects of the website that I feel draws a lot of men and women in: an environment that is based on inclusion rather than exclusion. GMP is more or less a unique platform because it is not based on any ideology. The concept is straightforward: men are good. The threat to this uniqueness and the strength of GMP is importing voices that reject discussion and assume that the basis of their opinion is unquestionable. The pieces that I have felt are lacking are the ones where authors make assertions that become challenged (with , and… Read more »
It doesn’t make it unquestionable, but I have read many “101” type discussions revolving around concepts such as privilege, feminism and intersectionality that go nowhere and all follow the same pattern. I personally don’t get anything out of those anymore, so if that’s the kind of discussion dominating a comment section I am just not that interested. It doesn’t mean it’s not important or valuable to discuss these things, but I’ve been there, done that and have the t-shirt. 🙂
How do you know they go nowhere? Why do they go “nowhere”? What is the pattern?
Emmeline, why should they have to be? I think that is the fear here. Would non-feminist blogs be included under the GMP wing giving more of a variety. I myself don’t want to see it as a feminist-only zone, or even a feminist-dominated zone. I’d rather see it a nice mix of feminism, masculism, and neutral ground.
I read her comment not as “they have to be ” but..”you mean there aren’t such men?” They don’t have to be. But they can comment and should feel free to comment if they are.
Julie is correct. All the guys I know are feminist and they haven’t been forced into it. I’m just saying that the kind of people who say “men can only be allies and if they call themselves feminists they’re sexist” are ridiculous and aren’t helping their cause.
Why is it ridiculous? Feminism was created as and remains a movement for women. Men are not the focus and given some of the “101” underpinnings of feminism, men being feminists would take away from focus on women. Having men as allies means they can identify with the movement, support it, but not threaten the heart of the movement. What I feel is actually ridiculous is the claim that men should not have a movement for themselves. There have been many posts on this site that have done a great job detailing the need for one. A men’s movement can… Read more »
Because you’re just making yourself lose support for an arbitrary reason. Like a more minor version of not allowing trans* women into “safe spaces”.
Is this debate about NOT allowing feminist men into the GMP space? (I am on pain meds and may have misread something)
I have no problem with feminist men on the GMP, I like to read a wide ranges of opinions, I learn more that way. I myself don’t find male allies as sexist, people can call themselves whatever they want, I try to look at the peoples intentions and actions, hence my dislike for labels.
It is not an “arbitrary reason.” It is a reason that goes to the purpose of the movement, the reason for its existence, and the core tenets that link its members together.
Furthermore, you don’t really “lose support.” Under that view, men can be and are allies of feminists.
Actually I’ve seen quite a few feminists argue that they can’t, but I’ll accept (and welcome) thay you don’t.
What Jacobtk said.
“Short version: if your comment annoys me, I will delete it.”
Confused. What does this mean? Are you in charge of moderation now, or just on your pieces? The commenting policy now is to not annoy you? So, anything that’s not radical feminist-compatible will be deleted?
Guess so. Suppose you could email Ozy as requested if you had questions. Seems like that would be the logical choice.
Seems like a highly illogical choice to me. Does Ozy really want a 40 emails asking the same questions about the moderation policy. We are all wondering the same things as Eric. If its in the comments everyone can read it.
If you look down there a bit then you’ll see that I did comment to clarify these points! I’m not in charge of moderating anything that isn’t NSWATM. Also, I am not the kind of radical feminist you’re thinking of, and even if I were the set of things that don’t annoy me is much larger than the set of things which are radical-feminist-compatible. 😛
I think Ozy is a radical feminist in the “rad 80s” sense, not the “man-hating” nonsense. 🙂
Ozy has spoken to this several times, both in the body of hir post and in comments. If you still have further issues understanding, I’d ask Ozy. And if Ozy doesn’t want to answer emails, zie’ll say so. We are working on making sure all the moderation is generally consistent as there are changes with new blogs, new staff of those blogs and so forth. A lot of evolution going on right now. What I’m seeing is immediate anxiety both from the GMP regulars who seem somehow convinced that they are now the enemy (which has not been proven here)… Read more »
If people think the GMP lacks dialogue, I’d suggest they start expanding their mind. There is an immense amount of dialog going on, it’s possible that the dialog isn’t in a way that outside people are used to? On the mansplaining article for instance it detailed one form of communication that I think some of the women were assuming didn’t respect another person’s feelings, whilst missing the key part, the men viewed that style of communication in a different way so it wasn’t harming other men’s feelings. Maybe perception of the comments could lead a person to believe X, but… Read more »
Well, it’s not easy to be that prescriptive is it? 😉 Just expand your mind and you’ll understand feminism…:) It’s more that both styles of dialogue need to have room for, people need to set mutual expectations of how to navigate the differences. I know Lisa loves social media (I do too) but I think the best places for mutual understanding (and the work that comes with it) occurs in real space where facial expression, vocal tone are present, there aren’t multiple lines of conversation happening (people can cross post and miss things online) and there is a facilitator that… Read more »
I understand some parts of feminism, but it gets confusing reading between different websites, I truly do believe there are multiple forms of feminism as one site will be about both men and women, another will be about only women, another will be about how men never suffer, another will be the same with the cull the men type mentality, but all use the same label, feminism:S. The feminism that is talked about here for example is one I found a bit rare when trying to find a decent site on feminism, especially one that caters for both the male… Read more »
“I’m thinking about West Side Story right now, wondering if perhaps we’ll find some sort of commenting love story between the worlds…”
When you’re a Jet, you’re a Jet….